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[Bragr]

Pretty simple and this is the goal for most corporations/streamers - they want to become a pharmaceutical company of gaming. Once they establish dominance by losing money for several years/buying up all the publishers/studios and luring in naive customers who want them to be something more than just a provider of free games for the next 2-3 years - they want to be able to price whatever they want because consumers won’t have anywhere else to go, control wages because devs won’t have anywhere else to go for the mass market. They want to have creative control to push corporate views and stances/control dev cycle, essentially convert the creative aspects of gaming into a manufacturing process. And they want to become so big that there really isn’t any going back - see social media companies, smartphones. I think these companies are net positive overall but the behavior of generations after miliennials has changed. There is no longer any care for quality, these companies know they can put out whatever they want, the people are sucked in and will happily consume garbage because that’s all they know. That’s the end goal and honestly there may not be anything we can do to stop it, Microsoft is massive

And what comparable situation do you take this from in the entertainment space? Even if the merger went through, Sony and Nintendo would still be huge, and if they tried to buy up more like in this conspiracy theory scenario, they would get blocked for real.

 

[quest]

Only 3 have actually released a game in the last 2 gens or something? That's probably why. I don't know what the other 20 studios are doing but clearly releasing games isn't high on their priority lists.

MS should spend less time trying to buy more studios and more time actually getting the studios they do have to release games.

It's funny come may 5th Microsoft will be up 3-1 on game releases in 2023. There is a good chance they get 5 first party games out in 2023. I know they don't count because of reasons.

 

[Crayon]

And what comparable situation do you take this from in the entertainment space? Even if the merger went through, Sony and Nintendo would still be huge, and if they tried to buy up more like in this conspiracy theory scenario, they would get blocked for real.

But this is buying more, and they are getting blocked for real.

 

[FullMetalx117]

And what comparable situation do you take this from in the entertainment space? Even if the merger went through, Sony and Nintendo would still be huge, and if they tried to buy up more like in this conspiracy theory scenario, they would get blocked for real.

Honestly I don’t think Disney is the absolute worst, but no doubt they went “woke”. And I consider myself moderate/slightly left leaning but it’s very clear they push certain views/agendas these days versus the 90s/even 2000s. A lot of times unecessarily.

MCU are manufactured movies, they tried to manufacture Star Wars too but failed miserably. They’re a good example of what can happen if a corporation is allowed to buy up all the imprtant IPs

 

[Spitfire098]

Really bad news for Xbox. Will only slow sales down more. Not looking good. Good chance people will look back on this as CMA killing the Xbox brand.

UK so based

But lol seriously Xbox will be fine. Yall just conveniently forgetting MS has Zenimax.

 

[Corndog]

No need for more then. Everyone knows letting Microsoft do what they did in the past was a huge mistake. Behemoths like them shouldn's exist if we want healthy competition.

What constitutes healthy competition?

 

[Heisenberg007]

What did they request in regards to cloud gaming? Serious question

In essence, the same type of stuff that an independent ABK would likely make:

 

[Corndog]

It should be illegal to block acquisitions based on hypothetical future situations. They assume cloud gaming is going to take off in popularity and they assume that Sony won't have infrastructure to compete with Microsoft by the time that happens. Dumb decision all around.

Really bad news for Xbox. Will only slow sales down more. Not looking good. Good chance people will look back on this as CMA killing the Xbox brand.

I think if things don’t turn around Microsoft will sale Xbox off and it will turn into a publisher. Then Sony will have a monopoly on high end console market.

 

[bitbydeath]

I think if things don’t turn around Microsoft will sale Xbox off and it will turn into a publisher. Then Sony will have a monopoly on high end console market.

Sell it to Activision.
Check-mate!

 

[Boots_the_God]

In essence, the same type of stuff that an independent ABK would likely make:

Fuuuuuck is that it???!!! Kidding, I appreciate you pulling that for me. That is wild though. So they needed to take apple into consideration. I don't get the part about standardizing the terms and conditions on which games are available. This sounds like they're against Sony not being able to make deals with ABK

 

[gokurho]

Microsoft's Spencer says he doesn't consider Sony and Nintendo his main competition anymore, largely because neither of those Japanese companies owns its own top-end global cloud infrastructure akin to Microsoft's Azure platform. One of Microsoft's main selling points for the new Xbox will be integration with its xCloud technology, which is meant to allow you to play the same game across a console, a desktop PC and a mobile device.

"When you talk about Nintendo and Sony, we have a ton of respect for them, but we see Amazon and Google as the main competitors going forward," Spencer said. "That's not to disrespect Nintendo and Sony, but the traditional gaming companies are somewhat out of position. I guess they could try to re-create Azure, but we've invested tens of billions of dollars in cloud over the years."

https://www.protocol.com/tech-gaming-amazon-facebook-microsoft

Phil is always right

 

[bender]

I love that "high end console market" caught on when it was simply an end around to cut out Nintendo's position in the home console market.

 

[Corndog]

Sell it to Activision.
Check-mate!

Maybe.

 

[Alex Scott]

Sony just broke records and sold atleast 620k consoles in the US last month and your telling me they need a wake up call? I don't know what planet your on or what drug your using right now.

When this deal was announced, Sony lost 20 billion$ in value. At that time Sony was worth 135 Billion and now at this time 112 billion (Macrotrends).

Imagine if this was approved. Their stock likely would have suffered the same fate again.

Someone does need a wake up call and it's not sony. Sony are flying right now.

If this isn't a wake up call for Sony. then what is? Their competitor was willing to buy the largest 3rd party publisher.

Sony does need to start securing their partners and start solidifying themselves in this industry.

Selling massive amount of consoles and breaking record is great but so is rectifying their weakness.

Edit: Grammar

 

[Heisenberg007]

Fuuuuuck is that it???!!! Kidding, I appreciate you pulling that for me. That is wild though. So they needed to take apple into consideration. I don't get the part about standardizing the terms and conditions on which games are available. This sounds like they're against Sony not being able to make deals with ABK

1. Not Apple, per se. It wasn't open to Linux / Steam Deck either, for example.
2. MGS includes all services, including Sony's PS Plus.
3. Point #3 refers to what I said about opportunities for ABK had they remained independent.

Regarding standardizing the T&C, Sony actually brought a great point in their response to the addendum. You could read the full 2-3 pages in their response document, but essentially it said that the price that Microsoft offered to Sony to put Call of Duty on PS Plus was so ridiculous that Sony will have to increase the price of PS Plus just to accommodate Call of Duty.

And then Microsoft explicitly asked Sony to redact that cost price and not show it publicly. Which makes us believe that Sony was right and that the offer was indeed ridiculous in price.

So, in essence, just controlling the IPs and leveraging them to gain unfair competitive advantage, among other things. So the CMA blocked it.

 

[MasterCornholio]

They don’t have to bribe if Sony is a major video game employer in UK. Also, CMA wants that sweet tax revenue from game sales that they won’t get from streaming.

I would call UK bluff. They won’t ban Xbox or its acquisitions. Worse they would do is fine MS.

No I'm talking about your theory about Microsoft pulling out from the UK. Also Microsoft is a much bigger company than Sony in the UK. The UK government receives even more from them when it comes to taxes. No idea why you believe they only care about a tiny section of the company.

The CMA isn't protecting Sony here. They tossed their arguments into the trash. Unless your saying the CMA is corrupt because they are a bunch of Sony fanboys. Which I don't see happening BTW.

 

[Alex Scott]

I think if things don’t turn around Microsoft will sale Xbox off and it will turn into a publisher. Then Sony will have a monopoly on high end console market.

Who is willing to buy Xbox without the studios? MS is all in on gaming.

 

[Corndog]

I love that "high end console market" caught on when it was simply an end around to cut out Nintendo's position in the home console market.

What are you saying? Nintendo cut themselves out by not competing hardware wise. It’s working for them.

Maybe switch 2 will see them back in contention but I doubt it. Maybe they will just go the cloud route for games that can’t run on their hardware.

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[bender]

What are you saying?

People are gullible.

 

[Corndog]

Who is willing to buy Xbox without the studios? MS is all in on gaming.

No one. It would be the studios. I must of not been clear.

 

[Corndog]

People are gullible.

You are making no sense.

 

[bender]

You are making no sense.

hook, line, and sinker.

 

[demigod]

It's funny come may 5th Microsoft will be up 3-1 on game releases in 2023. There is a good chance they get 5 first party games out in 2023. I know they don't count because of reasons.

The same reason psvr2 doesn’t count amirite?

 

[Cyberpunkd]

No need for more then. Everyone knows letting Microsoft do what they did in the past was a huge mistake. Behemoths like them shouldn's exist if we want healthy competition.

The definition of perfect competition is a monopolist emerging at the end, that’s economic theory. In fact preventing a monopoly is anti competitive since it’s a market intervention by the state.

 

[MasterCornholio]

So essentially the appeal is just a committee more or less determining if the CMA did their due diligence, and if they did, then that's that? The deal with the CMA is now closed with no further recourse?

Also seems like that one 180 they did with the console market was further solidify their case. Essentially wiping out their errors before it arrives at the tribunal if it happens.

Wonder what would have happened if they kept those errors?

 

[Jigsaah]

Tell me how many of those studios announce the fact that they are outsourcing?

Fact of the matter is they can't do it alone and it's becoming a apparent that the supposed AAAA game the Initiative was going to make now needs the help from a studio who barely makes AAA games.

The writings are on the wall. Microsoft needs to chill out and properly cultivate the studios they have. They always just throw money at problems. They did it with buying Mixer, then buying Shroud and Ninja. They do this shit all the time instead of doing what is required to be able compete at the level Sony does. That's why I prefer the way Sony is growing. Organically. Not buying studios on the Brink of closing down. But working with studios who have proven they can stand on their own two feet and joining Sony is simply a bonus.

Maybe I am talking out of my ass, but I'm telling you something doesn't feel right about this.

I was so young...yet so wise.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Who knew we could have pure socialism in 2023.

I hate leftists as much as the next guy, but you're not doing us any favors by misusing the term socialism. Let's not copy their absurd practice of denoting everything "nazi" they don't agree with.

 

[bitbydeath]

Also seems like that one 180 they did with the console market was further solidify their case. Essentially wiping out their errors before it arrives at the tribunal if it happens.

Wonder what would have happened if they kept those errors?

Either that or it was a rabbit hole they didn’t want to go down due to time restrictions.

 

[Boots_the_God]

1. Not Apple, per se. It wasn't open to Linux / Steam Deck either, for example.
2. MGS includes all services, including Sony's PS Plus.
3. Point #3 refers to what I said about opportunities for ABK had they remained independent.

Regarding standardizing the T&C, Sony actually brought a great point in their response to the addendum. You could read the full 2-3 pages in their response document, but essentially it said that the price that Microsoft offered to Sony to put Call of Duty on PS Plus was so ridiculous that Sony will have to increase the price of PS Plus just to accommodate Call of Duty.

And then Microsoft explicitly asked Sony to redact that cost price and not show it publicly. Which makes us believe that Sony was right and that the offer was indeed ridiculous in price.

So, in essence, just controlling the IPs and leveraging them to gain unfair competitive advantage, among other things. So the CMA blocked it.

Yea idk. It's like they complain about having to pay to have COD, but spend money on exclusive marketing rights. Don't want the threat of exclusivity, but pay for exclusivity for titles like the final fantasy series. I said it before, but I just wish they would let it all be fair game.

 

[solidus12]

In his latest video, Colteastwood is saying that it is PlayStation who really lost now that the deal is blocked…

 

[bitbydeath]

In his latest video, Colteastwood is saying that it is PlayStation who really lost now that the deal is blocked…

 

[Heisenberg007]

In his latest video, Colteastwood is saying that it is PlayStation who really lost now that the deal is blocked…

Damn, PlayStation keeps losing!

 

[Varteras]

Damn, PlayStation keeps losing!

PlayStation out here playing 5D Chess to kill their business on purpose.

 

[Fabieter]

Again, perfectly doable especially in handheld mode. If you would like to discuss what was implied by MS, we can look to their statement. Here is an excerpt "Microsoft has entered into a 10-year commitment to bring Call of Duty to @nintendo following the merger of Microsoft and Activision Blizzard King." So if we are talking about specifics, the language used does not imply one way or another if it would be a port or a cloud version. Regardless, that was just one piece of my statement earlier, and personally I believe the plan was to indeed develop a bespoke switch version that was feature and content complete, just using different rendering methods. I assume one can divorce the game code from the rendering method so I do not see how this would be an issue.

Of course, I'm just trying to have a conversation as none of us here on Gaf will ever know their true intentions. That is unless MS successfully appeals the decision. (I don't think they will be successful personally)

“You can imagine if [the deal] closed on that date, starting to do development work to make that happen would likely take a little bit of time,” Spencer said

I dont know what he means with development time on a cloud version. Maybe someone else can tell me.

 

[Cre8]

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Wow. I'm actually kind of shocked. Can't wait to see what Microsoft does next.

 

[IFireflyl]

They don’t have to bribe if Sony is a major video game employer in UK. Also, CMA wants that sweet tax revenue from game sales that they won’t get from streaming.

I would call UK bluff. They won’t ban Xbox or its acquisitions. Worse they would do is fine MS.

Just an FYI, there is no acquisition if one or more of the four regulatory bodies (CMA, EU, FTC, and SAMR) block the acquisition. Microsoft can't just proceed with it and face penalties in the U.K. The reason for this is that Microsoft and Activision are both U.S. companies, which means both companies are subject to U.S. laws and regulations.

I mention this because in the U.S. any acquisition/merger has to be filed with the SEC (Securities and Exchanges Commission). In the SEC filing for this acquisition, the terms of the acquisition state that the previously mentioned regulators are each capable of stopping this deal. If one or more of those four regulators block the acquisition, the acquisition is dead. At that point termination fees (or reverse termination fees) would kick in.

This is only the case after one (or more) of the regulatory bodies blocks the acquisition, and when all appeal options have either failed or been declined. Since Microsoft has the option of appealing to the CAT, the deal still has a chance. Having said that, the chance is almost zero based on how the CAT and CMA operate, and based on last year's Meta/Giphy ruling by the CAT. Yes, there is a chance that the deal could still be approved by the CMA in appeal. But it's in the same vein as winning a lottery jackpot. The odds are vastly against Microsoft at this point.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Whatever terms were set out in those marketing contracts would have held for the time they are valid for even if the deal had gone through.

Which is why people talking about "COD on gamepass" had to have been talking about from 2024 (potentially) onwards.

Indeed.

If this deal does fall through, I fully expect that marketing deal to be extended. Activision will want to be associated with PlayStation. Did they think Sony weren’t going to contest the deal?

In any case, the CMA dismissed Sony’s complaints around consoles. It came down to cloud and multiple companies contested it.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

It's funny come may 5th Microsoft will be up 3-1 on game releases in 2023. There is a good chance they get 5 first party games out in 2023. I know they don't count because of reasons.

Those types of games are not selling consoles. They've been outsold more than 2:1 in their strongest territory the last 4 months.

 

[TheTony316]

 

[PixelatedBeast]

Microsoft dont panic, I'm sure you'll be able to create a COD alternative in no time

Oh wow, it would be so poetic for Sony to find their killer FPS.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

Really bad news for Xbox. Will only slow sales down more. Not looking good. Good chance people will look back on this as CMA killing the Xbox brand.

I guess poor MS can’t compete with Sony unless they are allowed to buy up huge portions of the industry and lock them down, despite being the richest company in the world and basically the same number of studios already that Sony has.

 

[skit_data]

Hmmm… looking back at my posts in the big thread I found some nuggets of my own when arguing with Bernd (may he R.I.P) about the Brazilian findings not taking the emerging cloud gaming market into account:

I think the main differentiator between the Brazilian and rest of the regulators is that Brazil is looking at the cloud/streaming market as it stands now whereas US/EU etc. regulators job is to try to evaluate the further implications of the deal if streaming/cloud takes off in the way that MS themselves are betting on it will. Different ways to analyze the same subject.

They may be right, they may be wrong. If they’re right that must mean that MS is somewhat over estimating the potential of the deal which is ironic. Either the Brazilian regulators are wrong or MS are, that’s my interpretation.

Not first and formost, but they’re definitely betting on cloud becoming bigger and that of course can be considered when they’re buying one of the biggest publishers because it will have a drastic effect on their position within an emerging cloud gaming market.

The long rumored streaming stick, Xcloud on Samsung TVs, Xcloud on mobile phones etc.

I’m not saying it is a big part of the picture now, MS says it will be in the future. Some of the regulators takes that into account whereas Brazil seemingly doesn’t. That’s all.

Seems pretty much in line with CMAs reasoning on the subject.

 

[sinnergy]

This deal will just go through in another form , there are always options

 

[Panajev2001a]

You have the world leader in gaming getting massive gains because they are the leader, with concession in place due to popularity and ease of sales. How are you suppose to compete with that outside of first party games that now take longer to develop and cost more, all with the potential of your game not hitting big when it does come out? Heck, how are you suppose to compete third party wise when the other contender gets cheaper deals?

How would they compete?!? The “poor” bullied $2.x Trillion company vs the “richer” abuser $0.1 Trillion one if they cannot just buy all the publishers and content starve?

Maybe they could compete using all of the studios they already bought + Zenimax / Bethesda + you know tens of billions ($70 or so Billion) they were ready to spend on publishers purchases on… oh right on making games/hiring people and building IP’s does not remove existing critical content from your competitors… what was I thinking silly me …

 

[sinnergy]

UK will. Even more isolated than Brexit exit

 

[Fabieter]

The definition of perfect competition is a monopolist emerging at the end, that’s economic theory. In fact preventing a monopoly is anti competitive since it’s a market intervention by the state.

So? Most countries give money to some companies to make their life easier with the argument "we have to fire people if you dont" guess what that's anti competitive as well.

 

[Stare-Bear]

I guess poor MS can’t compete with Sony unless they are allowed to buy up huge portions of the industry and lock them down, despite being the richest company in the world and basically the same number of studios already that Sony has.

And yet their game output would suggest they have 3 studios and an intern...

 

[TheTony316]

XBots already claiming Microsoft would leave the UK market and closing their studios.

Nothing of value was lost.

MS would have to cease everything, if they leave the UK.