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Microsoft Surface Pro 3 Announced (12", 3:2 aspect ratio, new stand)

V

VoxPop

Member
So what kinda specs would I need to be doing digital artwork? Could this easily replace an Intuos and some of its functionality (more in line with the Cintiq)? Could I hook this up to my PC or Mac and use it like I would with the Intuos in Photoshop/Illustrator/ID or would it be more direct PS/Illustrator usage via the tablet?
 
S

SCULLIBUNDO

Banned
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
Sweet I was just about to buy a Surface 2 Pro, I'll see how the Aussie pricing goes and make a choice on Surface 2 or 3 from there.
Click to expand...
You can check the Aussie pricing on the Aus MS site.
256/i5 = $1549
256/i7 = $1829
512/i7 = $2,279.

Edit: oh and $150 for the fucking type cover.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
Wait what. I can pre-order it in Singapore NOW when SP2 never made it out here?

And I was considering shipping one from US. Oh my.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
niunhuiio said:
I am not going to lie, but this is what keeps me from buying almost every laptop and tablet PC out there. But then again, it's been a while since I've used one of those.
Click to expand...

The HD4400 is a beast. It is very similar I would say to an 8800 GTS.

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?gpu=GeForce+8800+GTS

In other words it would have been a mid-high range card around the time the Xbox 360 released. Games from Skyrim to BioShock Infinite run on highest settings at 720p, low on 1080p.

You can also completely max out Dark Souls 2 etc. but struggle to run Titanfall
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Dead said:
what sort of games exactly could you run on this, say the I5 4 or 8GB version?
Click to expand...

Here is a link to some benchmarks. Scroll down a bit and there is a good amount of games represented. Basically it can play older games at low settings. Pretty good if you want to play a little Hearthstone, Starcraft, Dota, a Source Engine game, or a cavalcade of indie stuff. But you're not going to play BF4 on it.
 
M

Mairu

Member
niunhuiio said:
I am not going to lie, but this is what keeps me from buying almost every laptop and tablet PC out there. But then again, it's been a while since I've used one of those.
Click to expand...

Integrated graphics have come a long way. I've been able to play things like FFXIV, Diablo 3, & Hearthstone on my Surface Pro 2 at decent quality... though I wonder if the new resolution/aspect ratio makes things worse.
 
F

f0lken

Member
VoxPop said:
So what kinda specs would I need to be doing digital artwork? Could this easily replace an Intuos and some of its functionality (more in line with the Cintiq)? Could I hook this up to my PC or Mac and use it like I would with the Intuos in Photoshop/Illustrator/ID or would it be more direct PS/Illustrator usage via the tablet?
Click to expand...

Adobe is working directly with MS, so PS/Illustrator should work just fine, the first one and the Pro 2 work great (though you needed to tweak PS, which looks to be solved soon according to the presentation).

But as for the second point that's a no
 
S

SeaGreene

Neo Member
The Surface Pro 3 looks really nice. I have an original RT and like it. Pro 3 would be a nice replacement for that and my laptop.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
You could picture the mini looking exactly like that right there.

jLJ4r4Ll.jpg
 
I

Izuna

Banned
Mairu said:
Integrated graphics have come a long way. I've been able to play things like FFXIV, Diablo 3, & Hearthstone on my Surface Pro 2 at decent quality... though I wonder if the new resolution/aspect ratio makes things worse.
Click to expand...

This is in fact my number 1 concern.

I will be selling my Surface Pro 1st Gen soon so I can't wait, but I really want the aspect ratio to sort itself out. On my 1st Gen, most games that aren't 1080p tend to have borders and don't scale at all.

It is definitely a driver issue, and I hope they get 1080p and 720p games working with the correct borders.
 
T

tenchir

Member
So the midrange Surface Pro 3 uses the exact same CPU as the newer revision Surface Pro 2?

edit: Yeah, it looks like the i5 are 4300u on both models. I wonder if connected standby can be patched in for Pro 2.
 
Z

Zolf

Member
I hope this leads to deals on the Surface Pro 2, which doesn't seem much different spec-wise except the higher resolution and the wider range of processor options.
 
B

Blackhead

Redarse
Animator said:
It is not a question of complaining to the devs. MS needs to make sure it is properly supported. I don't have the luxury of buying this and hoping it would get supported "one day". I make my living with this stuff.
Click to expand...
Don't buy it AND complain to both Microsoft and the devs.
Shogmaster said:
Some insights into Wacom > N-Trig change:

1. It helps to make the tablet thinner.

One of the reasons bigger and fatter Wacom Tablet PCs work better than thinner ones is that they can use thicker and better sensor board. I think one of the reasons why Surface Pro 1 and 2 was thicker than most people would have liked is because of the extra depth needed for the sensor board layer below the LCD. N-Trig does not use extra sensor board, but just uses the projected capacitive touch layer for X/Y coordinate.

2. Wacom DID NOT want bigger Surface to have Wacom in it.

Recently Wacom has "requested" MS that they do not advertise Surface Pro 1 and 2 having Wacom tech. Indeed when you go to MS Store, now they will avoid telling you that they have Wacom pen in it..

This is because Wacom does not want Surface Pro from further eating into Cintiq Companion sales, which is not as good as they hoped (hence the price drop). The Pro 1 and 2 was eating into it bad enough at 10". At 12", this would be a disaster, so no more Wacom inside.

3. Hardware wise, N-Trig has caught up with Wacom:

The new Duo Sense 2 with v3 firmware is Very good. The pressure curve is just as responsive, the tip is just as sensitive, and temporal update rate is similar. And N-Trig's design by nature has less parallax issues, and tip offset issues since the pen tip sensor is closer to the pen tip, and the sensor grid for X/Y coordinate is right at the surface of the tablet.

The only remaining problems are drivers, and software support.

Software support isn't what you think it is. It is more subtle and entrenched. Most art software out there was first written when N-Trig did not exist, and they are tailored for Wacom's pressure curve. This is why N-Trig feels a bit "off" with things like Painter for example. But with more recent apps with neutral pressure curve like Fresh Paint, they feel about the same.

As for drivers, if you use apps that already support Microsoft's tablet API, like Manga Studio 5/Clip Studio Paint, then you are good to go. Just go into setting and flip the tablet settings. Even with things like Photoshop, things are getting better since now CS support Microsoft tablet API natively. We just have to wait for rest of the art app community to stop only supporting Wacom's WinTab API.
Click to expand...

Good stuff Shog, thanks for this
 
T

tenchir

Member
Animator said:
Not according to the Anandtech benchmarks. They said SP3 has decent performance increase over SP2.
Click to expand...

I am going to assume it's driver software issue that is causing the performance difference. It's the same CPU, so it could be an issue with throttling or whatever.

edit: It looks like Anand is comparing it to the older 4200u revision Surface Pro 2 because he mentions 4200u in reference to the Pro 2.

"Surface Pro 3 still uses a 15W Haswell ULT SoC. My review sample uses a Core i5-4300U (a speed bump of SP2's original 4200U), although there are also Core i3 and i7 options as well"
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
OMG the screen specs are what I want, but I can't get it for awhile.... :(

Ah well, still happy with my surface pro 1.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
iavi said:
I was hoping for an Iris Pro, but it's no dealbreaker. The 4400 is capable, and if I really want to play anything more intensive on it, I'll just stream.
Click to expand...

After selling my 1st Gen the upgrade is about 600 or so. Considering I already got an Xbox One I feel the same way. Though I was considering buying an SLI GeForce 760, 16GB 1500MHz, i5 computer for 800, but this Surface Pro 3 looks damn amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=febIiWXdqe8

Surface Pro 2 running Titanfall at 720p. Beautiful...
 
I

Izuna

Banned
Pre order made. Going to ask my GF if she can ship her older laptop for me to use until August. =)

EDIT: I am considering just buying it from the US and having it shipped now... I can get it about 200 cheaper a month early...
 
I

Izuna

Banned
Yeah screw it =( I will import it from US. I thought it was going to release at the beginning of August not the end of it.
 
C

Conflict NZ

Member
Wait this thing isn't out until september?

First why are they using Haswell chips, shouldn't Broadwell be well out by then?

Also why announce this now? Destroy the market for Surface Pro 2 for three months?
 
S

strata8

Member
Conflict NZ said:
Wait this thing isn't out until september?

First why are they using Haswell chips, shouldn't Broadwell be well out by then?

Also why announce this now? Destroy the market for Surface Pro 2 for three months?
Click to expand...

Broadwell isn't coming until November, maybe later.
 
A

Astral/H3X

Member
Shogmaster said:
Some insights into Wacom > N-Trig change:

3. Hardware wise, N-Trig has caught up with Wacom:

The new Duo Sense 2 with v3 firmware is Very good. The pressure curve is just as responsive, the tip is just as sensitive, and temporal update rate is similar. And N-Trig's design by nature has less parallax issues, and tip offset issues since the pen tip sensor is closer to the pen tip, and the sensor grid for X/Y coordinate is right at the surface of the tablet.
Click to expand...

With the bold, I think I'd much prefer the N Trig now. This shit infuriated me on the Wacom display. Having a battery might suck, but hell this won't.

One question though, do we know if the button on the back functions as an eraser?
 
S

strata8

Member
Conflict NZ said:
When did this happen? Intel usually release yearly around june-july don't they?
Click to expand...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/18/us-intel-chips-idUSBREA4H08P20140518

"I can guarantee for holiday, and not at the last second of holiday," Krzanich said in an interview. "Back to school - that's a tight one. Back to school you have to really have it on-shelf in July, August. That's going to be tough."

The back-to-school season around August, when parents sometimes buy new PCs for their children, has provided smaller sales bumps for PC makers in recent years than in the past, but the November/December U.S. holiday season is still viewed as a key opportunity to sell consumer electronics.
Click to expand...
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
I've never really understood the point of tablets, I feel like I'm missing something. People brag about their iPads and I just think that my iPhone is good enough, maybe I'd consider getting one if I had bad eyesight and didn't need to make phone calls. The Surface has always intrigued me, though. With the Surface Pro 3 I think I'm finally ready to jump in.
 
A

Astral/H3X

Member
xbhaskarx said:
I've never really understood the point of tablets, I feel like I'm missing something. People brag about their iPads and I just think that my iPhone is good enough, maybe I'd consider getting one if I had bad eyesight and didn't need to make phone calls. The Surface has always intrigued me, though. With the Surface Pro 3 I think I'm finally ready to jump in.
Click to expand...

I don't like most tablets because of their "Well it's small and convenient, but I can't -----" design. The Surface is a little less small, but doesn't have any limitations outside of some horsepower concerns. I love mine. I'm certainly considering an upgrade from my 1.
 
A

Anion

Member
Dang! That's so cool looking. The price is going to keep me away for a while. I might have to pick one of these next time though. It could replace my laptop
 
A

Apath

Member
H3XAntiStyle said:
With the bold, I think I'd much prefer the N Trig now. This shit infuriated me on the Wacom display. Having a battery might suck, but hell this won't.

One question though, do we know if the button on the back functions as an eraser?
Click to expand...
It annoyed me to no end. Glad to here it is fixed.
 
F

Feep

Banned
Messing around with the i5 now. Quick impressions:

The new keyboard "backsnap" thing is CRAZY nice. I can't express how much more stable it makes the whole configuration. Combined with the kickstand, I finally feel completely comfortable using a Surface Pro on my lap. Awesome.

I don't know how I feel about the screen. 3:2 ratio feels a bit off, and I haven't had a chance to do game testing with such a weird ratio, but I'll be sure to soon. The resolution being higher is nice, I guess, but I don't notice it too much.

The size is also weird. It *feels* more like a laptop now, and I sort of relished the Surface Pro 1/2's cool "mini" feel. The thinness is great, though. (Why'd you get rid of the dark metal finish, though?! Ugh.)

The new trackpad is fantastic. It's a real trackpad! Not that nonsense on the old Type Cover. Also, for some reason, my new type cover smells EXTREMELY strongly of, like...glue, or something. I hope that fades away soon. >.>

Other than that, it feels pretty similar to my Surface Pro 2 in terms of everything else. I don't have much to say about the pen stuff because I'm an engineer and never used the damn thing in the first place.
 
I

iavi

Member
Feep said:
Messing around with the i5 now. Quick impressions:

The new keyboard "backsnap" thing is CRAZY nice. I can't express how much more stable it makes the whole configuration. Combined with the kickstand, I finally feel completely comfortable using a Surface Pro on my lap. Awesome.

I don't know how I feel about the screen. 3:2 ratio feels a bit off, and I haven't had a chance to do game testing with such a weird ratio, but I'll be sure to soon. The resolution being higher is nice, I guess, but I don't notice it too much.

The size is also weird. It *feels* more like a laptop now, and I sort of relished the Surface Pro 1/2's cool "mini" feel. The thinness is great, though. (Why'd you get rid of the dark metal finish, though?! Ugh.)

The new trackpad is fantastic. It's a real trackpad! Not that nonsense on the old Type Cover. Also, for some reason, my new type cover smells EXTREMELY strongly of, like...glue, or something. I hope that fades away soon. >.>

Other than that, it feels pretty similar to my Surface Pro 2 in terms of everything else. I don't have much to say about the pen stuff because I'm an engineer and never used the damn thing in the first place.
Click to expand...

The dark metal finish and 16:9 aspect ratio are the things that have me leaning more towards a surface pro 2 as it drops in price. 3:2 is weird.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
Feep said:
Messing around with the i5 now. Quick impressions:

The new keyboard "backsnap" thing is CRAZY nice. I can't express how much more stable it makes the whole configuration. Combined with the kickstand, I finally feel completely comfortable using a Surface Pro on my lap. Awesome.

I don't know how I feel about the screen. 3:2 ratio feels a bit off, and I haven't had a chance to do game testing with such a weird ratio, but I'll be sure to soon. The resolution being higher is nice, I guess, but I don't notice it too much.

The size is also weird. It *feels* more like a laptop now, and I sort of relished the Surface Pro 1/2's cool "mini" feel. The thinness is great, though. (Why'd you get rid of the dark metal finish, though?! Ugh.)

The new trackpad is fantastic. It's a real trackpad! Not that nonsense on the old Type Cover. Also, for some reason, my new type cover smells EXTREMELY strongly of, like...glue, or something. I hope that fades away soon. >.>

Other than that, it feels pretty similar to my Surface Pro 2 in terms of everything else. I don't have much to say about the pen stuff because I'm an engineer and never used the damn thing in the first place.
Click to expand...

Is the charger the same as it was? Take a picture of it if you can.
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Conflict NZ said:
Wow that's shit. Looking back Intel has released their last four CPU refreshes in Q1 or Q2 each year. Wonder what the hold up is this time.
Click to expand...

Silicon is done. They're having trouble die shrinking to sub 20 nm.

I'm basically not interested in PC compute progression until something replaces Silicon. Graphene can run 50x faster than Silicon, so if we switched to that the Moore's law clock (in performance progression anyway) would go back to 1990. That would be exciting.

But until then expect 5% IPC gains per year and 100 MHz bumps every 2 years. It's really boring.
 
S

strata8

Member
Was this posted? BMW, Coca-Cola Company, and Louis Vuitton deploying Surface Pro 3s:

http://blog.surface.com/2014/05/announcing-surface-pro-3/

What ultimately matters is whether we’ve built a Surface that realizes our ambition to let our customers do more yet still love the device they are using. While we’ve kept Surface Pro 3 largely under wraps ahead of this announcement, we did show it to a few companies who wanted a tablet that could take the place of laptops. We were blown away by the interest, and are excited to have BMW Group, The Coca-Cola Company and LVMH – Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton seeing it as a core device for them. They’ll all be deploying Surface Pro 3 devices in the future – in some cases planning to use it as a laptop replacement and in others looking at innovative ways to leverage its unique capabilities as a powerful tablet too.
Click to expand...
 
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