but then that wouldnt fit his agenda he's been pushing the entire thread. See the post right below yours, its quote "useless for 99% of people" except that its not.
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Microsoft Surface Pro 3 Announced (12", 3:2 aspect ratio, new stand)
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
but then that wouldnt fit his agenda he's been pushing the entire thread. See the post right below yours, its quote "useless for 99% of people" except that its not.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
just looking at that asus ultrabook:
lower res
heavier
no ac wifi
no rear facing camera
no digitizer (?)
mind you, it still looks like a great laptop though.
I really want a Pro 3, but I really want to not want one, if that makes any sense. I'll have to go check one out. It sounds like such a cool device, and I'm using my laptop less and less these days (mainly for StarCraft 2, League of Legends, and Steam stuff on the go) as my desktop handles my gaming needs along with my consoles.
I have a Nexus 10, which has been fantastic, but I'm ready for something that will allow me a bit more utility. I dunno, I'll have to go play with one for a bit.
I have a Nexus 10, which has been fantastic, but I'm ready for something that will allow me a bit more utility. I dunno, I'll have to go play with one for a bit.
I am a professional user. I work in movies, do concepts, animation, film editing, modeling and sculpting. I will NEVER go back to a laptop after using a Surface. It is simply that much more convenient than a mac book pro (which I owned). An Ipad is a joke for anyone wanting productivity. I can run all my pro software on Surface. It is a device that fits in my camera bag and is with me at all times. The only thing I need to carry with me is a mouse as opposed to having to carry my mac book pro + AC + wacom tablet + mouse. Which weighted a ton and is nowhere near as intuitive as working with a surface.
Not writing this as a surface commercial but if someone is having a hard time figuring out why this device is attractive for professionals and making suggestions like "you can carry a laptop and a ipad at the same time" you don't know what you are talking about. If all you want is to watch netflix and browse gaf by all means pick up an ipad but there is simply no alternative to Surface for professional use in this price point.
Not writing this as a surface commercial but if someone is having a hard time figuring out why this device is attractive for professionals and making suggestions like "you can carry a laptop and a ipad at the same time" you don't know what you are talking about. If all you want is to watch netflix and browse gaf by all means pick up an ipad but there is simply no alternative to Surface for professional use in this price point.
I've been kind of itching for a gaming laptop, but couldn't justify the very limit amount of times I'd use it (having a real gaming PC). This, on the other hand, would be delicious. My old Win 8 Lenovo tablet is still honestly very useful even with terrible driver support and one of the worst pieces of hardware Lenovo has probably ever thrown at the market. The Pro 1 made it look like a joke, I could do so much with a Pro 3.
All depends on what job my wife gets
All depends on what job my wife gets
PaulExcellent
Member
Has there been any new information on how well this device works for art and what not?
I really liked the feel of the Surface Pro 2 compared to the first one in terms of drawing, but I feel like a 12' screen would be much more useful for other stuff.
(Though it still seems very large for drawing. lol)
I really liked the feel of the Surface Pro 2 compared to the first one in terms of drawing, but I feel like a 12' screen would be much more useful for other stuff.
(Though it still seems very large for drawing. lol)
Betta Lines
Member
Most artists/designers wanted a bigger screen...
Shogmaster
Member
It's one of those things that those who don't want to get never will. If you are dead set on making an argument against SP3 (or SP2), you can find your way to do it like Coldfoot is, but once you know WHY its so compelling, all that so called reasoning just becomes noise.
I on the other hand is muy loco, and would love to see a 15" version next. I got too use to drawing on 13.3" Tablet PC and it's hard for me to go smaller again. I love the aspect ratio though, and maybe it would make up for having smaller drawing area. 16:9 always felt cramped, even at 13.3".
Either way, can't wait to hit my MS store on 6th and give the SP3 a go. Maybe they will even let me install Manga Studio 5 and do a video. At the very least, I will be taking Fresh Paint for a ride on it and recoding the proceedings.
PaulExcellent
Member
I travel quite a bit, so a smaller screen is fine with me. (Currently a Note 8.0)
It just feels like I could really take advantage of this thing's size for programming and what not. With an actual keyboard, of course.
maximum360
Member
So bummed that I missed out on the GRADUATION promo code. I would have bought the 256 GB i5 version in a heart beat. Since my wife is also a teacher the edu discount would have brought the price down to a point where my wife would grudgingly approve since the discounts were stackable.
Since my wife is also a teacher the edu discount would have brought the price down to a point where my wife would grudgingly approve since the discounts were stackable.DataStream
Member
that review video is cute
also
(And my favorite feature is still there: a USB jack right on the power brick. So great for charging your phone.)
Try a physical microsoft store. GRADUATION is valid and stacks.So bummed that I missed out on the GRADUATION promo code. I would have bought the 256 GB i5 version in a heart beat.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Man Wacom must be pissed at all the reviews basically saying n-trig is an upgrade lol.
Stephen_drewz
Member
Quoting myself, I understand its a niche area but with some luck someone here might work in the same field.
http://blog.surface.com/2014/05/get-know-surface-pro-3-pen/
I'm not super well versed in the pen technology stuff, but from what I understand having the wintab drivers is kind of a big deal?
I'm not super well versed in the pen technology stuff, but from what I understand having the wintab drivers is kind of a big deal?
Bob Dobalina
Member
Edge sensitivity is one of the actual benefits the SP gets from losing Wacom. Had a thinkpad x220t in the past and the innacuracy at the edges of the screen when writing was pain in the ass at times.
SeaOfMadness
Member
Wow, has hell frozen over? Talk about an anti-MS guy...
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I'm glad they at least acknowledge the artist community. Looking forward to trying one in the ms store.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
I'm more sold on a SP3 every day. Sounds likle all the CC apps are supported natively. Eugh... so gonna end up with one of these
Just got my Pro 2 for Christmas, so I think I'll hold back for the Broadwell version. Looks hot as hell, though. The new kickstand design alone would be worth it. Can't count how many times I'm in meetings and would love that slight angle so I can scribble notes easier.
Oh, and Animator is 100% on point. If all you're looking for is something personal to sit on the couch with, there are probably better alternatives out there than the Surface line. If you do any kind of work, be it corporate or in school, the Surface Pro blows away anything else out there.
Oh, and Animator is 100% on point. If all you're looking for is something personal to sit on the couch with, there are probably better alternatives out there than the Surface line. If you do any kind of work, be it corporate or in school, the Surface Pro blows away anything else out there.
This is sounding better and better. Glad to hear they will launch right away with a wintab compatible driver. That should give us pressure sensitivity in most everything if I am not mistaken.
So I'm caving in and preordering. Going with the i5/8mb ram version and cyan cover. Looks like I qualify for the 10% for students. Also, going to buy it through my Discover Card website for an extra 5% cash back. Is there any other ways to bring the price down?
Edit: Anyone know if Office 365 University if worth it?
Edit: Anyone know if Office 365 University if worth it?
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
This is fantastic news! I was kinda hoping that since they knew there were limitations with the N-Trig drivers in certain programs that they would come up with their own or help with new drivers but you never know with Microsoft.
N-Trig did release WinTab drivers recently but apparently it only worked in Photoshop.
maximum360
Member
Awesome. Have you tried this personally or read about this online? If this is legit I'll take a trip to the MS store on Saturday.
Dead Prince
Banned
i think i'll wait for real world people who uses wacom devices and even non wacom devices and compare between this, with SP2 and any other devices. if all goes well i might pick up that i7 version
I've read about it working and it almost worked for me, so I'd try calling first. The employee told me there was an issue with doing it for pre-orders because, for some reason, with pre-orders he'd have to give me $100 for it to work.
Shogmaster
Member
I'm glad that MS is going to help out N-Trig with their biggest weakness: software. With MS perhaps writing the WinTab driver, N-Trig can become a good replacement for Wacom in art community.
And I also like the idea of MS tackling this problem two prong: Get a functional WinTab driver in the short term, then get software developers to support MS Tablet API in their apps natively in the long term. That last bit is much more crucial since this will mean better multi-touch UI interface and palm rejection in art apps. WinTab just lags behind in that respect. See latest version of Manga Studio 5/ Clip Studio Paint for the BEST multi-touch and palm rejection usage.
BTW, I never thought MS would embrace N-Trig for digitizer pen tech since their tech works pretty much the same as Perceptive Pixel's pen does. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THOSE GUYS? It's been over 2 years since we've heard of PP. MS had them for like 3 years now. SP3 should be using PP's pen by now. But N-Trig is being used instead. Hmmmm.....
And I also like the idea of MS tackling this problem two prong: Get a functional WinTab driver in the short term, then get software developers to support MS Tablet API in their apps natively in the long term. That last bit is much more crucial since this will mean better multi-touch UI interface and palm rejection in art apps. WinTab just lags behind in that respect. See latest version of Manga Studio 5/ Clip Studio Paint for the BEST multi-touch and palm rejection usage.
BTW, I never thought MS would embrace N-Trig for digitizer pen tech since their tech works pretty much the same as Perceptive Pixel's pen does. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THOSE GUYS? It's been over 2 years since we've heard of PP. MS had them for like 3 years now. SP3 should be using PP's pen by now. But N-Trig is being used instead. Hmmmm.....
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
The guy who runs the Surface Pro Artist site also got a review copy. Look forward to reading his impressions soon.
http://surfaceproartist.com/blog/2014/5/22/now-it-gets-real
http://surfaceproartist.com/blog/2014/5/22/now-it-gets-real
So I'm trying to decide between this and an ultrabook for a mix of work and school. The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger is I'm taking computer science classes and can't decide if I want a keyboard like a laptop or if the pro keyboard attachment would be enough. For work I just need to be able to access PowerPoint/excel and PDF files.
Any thoughts would be great.
Any thoughts would be great.
That's great. I can't wait for his review.
I am amazed how shitty so many of the first look videos from the tech sites were. I saw a couple say that "unlike the older models this one comes with a pen!" and one video preview kept calling the surface pro 3 pen wacom. Holy shit if you are doing a living reviewing tech at least do the bare minimum of research before you rush to record your video.
If you are in Comp Sci a touch keyboard isn't what you should be looking for. I am a Comp Sci student (1 year till I graduate). When you type programs one slight mistake in a variable name, function call, or anything can drive you crazy. I once spent 4 hours trying to figure out what was wrong in a HTML Javascript poker game I had to make (with images. detailed scoring statistics and all).
I even went as far as rewriting many key functions in a different way. When I finally realized what was causing it I felt so stupid. There was a letter s at the end of a variable I was referencing that shouldn't be there. Touch typing makes for a a less tactile experience than using buttons that are pushed in like a normal keyboard.
The surface keyboard is still touch based and isn't mechanical. Personally I can not take any risks when writing programs of having an occasional mistype here or there. It is not worth it.
Furthermore, in my experience once you understand the core concept of what you are doing, creating the program is the easy part. The debugging and stupid errors are what I end up wasting most my time on, and they happen a lot.
PS: I think this device looks awesome too and would buy if I had the money or need for it, but I just think it is not good for coding.
edit: I'm an idiot, there are 2 different keyboards, one does use mechanical buttons and one is touch based, my bad.
Isn't the Type Cover Pro that they made for the SP3 mechanical and backlit? I could be wrong but I thought that's what I read. I definitely don't want a touch cover for the reason you stated as I've played around with one and it wasn't that great when trying to really get moving.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
No, it's mechanical.
EDIT: From the MS website on the Type Cover for the SP2 "Classic is now colorful. Type Cover 2, the next generation mechanical keyboard for Surface, now comes in four colors. The keys are backlit so you can work and play both night and day. Enjoy the same super-thin, lightweight design of the original Type Cover."
Looked it up. Man I am an idiot, it turns out there is a "Touch Cover" and "Type Cover". The only one I used in a store had the touch cover and I thought that was the one and only official keyboard.
Yeah disregard my whole post now hahahah, Just get the type cover and none of that matters, lol.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
That brings up a good point though, did they even announce a touch cover for the SP3? I don't think they did.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Pretty much the only thing holding me back off jumping into this new one is the Type Cover bugs.
It's documented on the MS forums, but has anyone else here experienced this? On the SP1 using a Type Cover 2 the ctrl/alt/shift keys sometimes get 'stuck' requiring a second press to 'unstick' the key. I've checked all sticky keys optionsand they're all off, and it doesn't happen with my other keyboard so I'm assuming it's a problem unique to the Type Covers and it doesn't seem to have been fixed.
Makes my work in Photoshop/Illustrator quite frustrating, as those modifiers can wreak havoc on a document if I use the wrong tool. Wondering if it's fixed in the new type cover, but it's such a weird and specific problem I wonder if anyone would even test for it!
It's documented on the MS forums, but has anyone else here experienced this? On the SP1 using a Type Cover 2 the ctrl/alt/shift keys sometimes get 'stuck' requiring a second press to 'unstick' the key. I've checked all sticky keys optionsand they're all off, and it doesn't happen with my other keyboard so I'm assuming it's a problem unique to the Type Covers and it doesn't seem to have been fixed.
Makes my work in Photoshop/Illustrator quite frustrating, as those modifiers can wreak havoc on a document if I use the wrong tool. Wondering if it's fixed in the new type cover, but it's such a weird and specific problem I wonder if anyone would even test for it!
Ipad doesn't support a digitizer stylus. Wacom is what's being used in Samsung's products and the previous surface pros.
Having used both before, (The Wacom on the Samsung Ativ, and the NTrig on the Sony Tap 11), the key difference people are going to notice is that the N-Trig pen is heavier due to the battery (think maybe a fountain pen) and the wacom pen is lighter (like a pencil). Pressure sensitivity wise, there is some difference in terms of calibration so the same pressure on one pen may not lead to the same effect on the other, but they appear to be just about as sensitive as each other, despite the Wacom having 1024 levels of pressure vs the 256 on the N-Trig. I will say that the Wacom is as good or better than the N-Trig in most areas except for one: The N-Trig maintains its calibration and accuracy even close to the edges of the screen. The wacom tip becoming inaccurate near screen edges is a constant source of frustration for me, even though I like its other aspects.
Haha well since you're doing what I'm going yo be getting into, I'm thinking the i5 with the 8GB of RAM would be the best way to go. Do you think the i7 would have any significant benefits for compiling code or would the i5 handle it fine? I've only ever written and compiled on my desktop which has a AMD FX 8350 in it so I'm trying to see how other things compare.
In all honesty there will probably be nothing you code in college that should even come close to using up any modern processor or lots of RAM. I mean you can always have the occasional infinite loop though. Even my more complex programs that I have ran a time comparison on did all their tasks in usually a few seconds at most, most of the time it was in the mile seconds. All of my stuff could run on an old XP machine easily.
The development consoles (programs that you develop in) are just advanced text editors with compilers built in, so nothing system intensive. The question about specs should relate to other things like video or gaming, or maybe video editing. Almost any computer can run Office and Notepad++ (or other development consoles), which is all you need.
Even if you are programming a game, unless you are rendering some advanced 3D models and use some complex physics engine it wouldn't matter.
I am not sure what your school is like though and maybe things will get that crazy, but personally for me all my stuff can run on very old computers.
The Faceless Master
Member
coldfoot hates everything i like on purpose. mere months after i get a Surface Pro he's bringing the rain.
<3 mIRC
<3 mIRC
I'm perfectly fine with Surface Pro, as long as it's priced accordingly
nhlducks35
Member
I don't think we have specific models yet, so it's hard to get exact numbers, but generally speaking, Haswell i5 and i7 are very close to identical on single threaded applications with the i7 doing 30-40% better on multithreaded benchmarks since it has hyper-threading (but as in everything multithreaded, your real world millage can and will vary wildly).
Also, I think there's a good chance that I/O is going to be your build bottleneck, not the CPU (though it's obviously depend on your project, language of choice and compiler), but in any case, the i5 is a capable CPU, you can do serious coding work just fine on it.
I'll wait until we have exact model information to make final judgment, but right now, as others have said, I think the 8GB i5 is the sweet spot and a pretty good value (would've been phenomenal value if the keyboard was included).
Shogmaster
Member
Hyperthreading is on both i5 and i7. It's i3 that doesn't support it.
i5 and i7 only differ in L3 cache (3MB vs 4MB) and build in GPU version.
You sure about that?
I could be wrong, by looking at Intel's website, they i5 don't seem to have hyperthreading -
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/core-i5-processor.html
