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[texhnolyze]

And I think the surprise attacks by random captains happen far too frequently, even during other active missions. But maybe that's because I play on hardest difficulty. It can be really annoying though.

It's pretty random for me so far. Sometimes it could be 3-4 times in a row, sometimes it's an hour or two without ambush at all.

 

[wesleyshark]

Having a deranged orc as one of my warchiefs, who can only say the words "I don't know! I don't know? I don't know!", is GOTY material, honestly lol.

This is too much fun.

 

[One Foul Note]

Having a deranged orc as one of my warchiefs, who can only say the words "I don't know! I don't know? I don't know!", is GOTY material, honestly lol.

This is too much fun.

I met that guy (in fact I made that guy in my Mordor). It made for a weird moment when he was set to execute another orc leader and their conversation was basically his prisoner giving him mad lip and him replying with 'I don't know?' repetitively. Sadly nether orc survived the following brawl but I still hope that I will meet my deranged orc again one day.

 

[FF Seraphim]

Is there a set path we should take for taking over fortresses? Going to a 3rd area and all the orcs are like level 18 to 21 and im level 33…

 

[DrBo42]

I ended up being confused not knowing you couldn't send a death threat to (some?) warchiefs.

But now I have another issues which may be a bug. After taking back a fortress, enemies are still warchiefs. When I kill them, I can't replace them with my own guys. It just lets me "purchase" that space, over and over again..

In the siege menu you can't remove them?

I had a bug like that after taking a fortress solo and dominating the defending warchiefs. An enemy warchief somehow managed to hold his slot. Ended up fixing it by going into the siege menu within the army screen and replacing him.

 

[HashtagLapsed]

In the siege menu you can't remove them?

I had a bug like that after taking a fortress solo and dominating the defending warchiefs. An enemy warchief somehow managed to hold his slot. Ended up fixing it by going into the siege menu within the army screen and replacing him.

Yeah, I can replace the guys who are still alive, but the one's that are dead in those slots just stay there. The slot itself is empty and it says press A to replace, but when I press A it fills up the "purchasing" bar above the slot. Burned through a few K trying to figure out what is going on. It is still like that now.

 

[RunTheGhouls]

When is the best time to start doing side missions/content? I'm just past the point where I can dominate enemies.

 

[Norwegian_Imposter]

Quick question if I just do the main quests will that lock me out of any of the side quests etc? I wanna leave them till act 4 so the grind isn't as real in 4.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Levels seem really meaningless in this game.

I'm level 42 and in Minas Morgul, and even though all the enemies here are like level 20, they're incredibly difficult, often adapting to everything, immune to frost, immune to arrows, immune to vaulting, and regenerate health more quickly than I can inflict damage.

I'm also pretty sure the absolutely shitty FOV in this game has killed me more than anything else.

 

[witness]

Started playing this last night and I love it so far. Taking the threads advice and just doing main missions for now but I am grabbing some collectibles as well. You unlock a lot pretty fast mainlining it, great sense of progression so far. Killed my first war chief so far.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

So i managed to find my sweet spot atm -

Oc'd 3770k @ 4.6
OC'd 1070 @ 2075/9000

1440p with all settings on Ultra except for Shadows on High. No DOF, AA ,Blur, Large Page. Maintaining a nice 54 fps minimum in Nurnen which is quite taxing than the first area due to the vegetation. Im sure it will be quite solid in other areas which aren't as intensive. I could possibly get 75 fps + but the minimums kill me.

Someone should test the effect of memory OC's on this game - i think i gained +5 fps jst from Oc'ing my 1070's memory.

 

[AnkhWeasel]

Oh my goodness post-game defending goes south quickly when it goes south.
The extra enemy warchief when a point goes down is a huge part of it.

Wasn't underleveled and have my defenses all purchased (without loot boxes!), but daaamn.

Could probably afford to drop back a bit (I have two more points behind the inner wall, I believe), but once it goes bad and they get those extra chiefs, it's a tough time!

I generally either hold them off so well the perimeter barely gets breached, or it's absolute madness.

 

[Jintor]

was poisoning some barrels when some dude ambushed me and freaked out cos i was doing it wrong

been doing the fortress defence stuff and this game is defeinitely at its best when there's a chance of your dudes dying and you also.

 

[truestatic]

When is the best time to start doing side missions/content? I'm just past the point where I can dominate enemies.

At that time, any time you like. Chapter 2 is two things. Capturing fortresses and doing side missions. Do them in whatever order you like.

 

[Ravelle]

Damn, the game looks a lot better when there's some actual sun and lighting on everything in Act II.

 

[Drewfonse]

My copy is on the way, and I'm excited. I'm not a huge open world nut, so is it viable to do mostly story missions if I don't care about the post game grind? Will I be badly underleveled?

 

[PeterVenkman]

Maybe I did this Nemesis mission wrong, but I was supposed to mount a Graug, which I did. I then proceeded to enter the fortress, only to have the doors close on me; then a new marker appeared on the outside of the fortress, telling me to throw a boulder at the doors.

oops?

 

[Weebos]

I've failed the Seregost Siege three times now lol.

At this point I'm just going to keep playing the story until I can outlevel it a bit. I nearly had the Overlord this time, but I was a bit careless. Having the Graug summon helped a ton.

 

[Eleuin]

Can you not howl and summon others caragors when you're on a dire caragor?

 

[Drewfonse]

Is it viable to do a straight story run, or will I be underleveled later?

 

[DrBo42]

Is it viable to do a straight story run, or will I be underleveled later?

Burn through it, at least get to act 2. You'll be okay regardless.

You're denied a true death afterall.

 

[Drewfonse]

Burn through it, at least get to act 2. You'll be okay regardless.

You're denied a true death afterall.

Cool. I'll do that. So it's actually feasible to do straight story from beginning to end without a huge difficulty spike?

Thanks.

 

[DrBo42]

Cool. I'll do that. So it's actually feasible to do straight story from beginning to end without a huge difficulty spike?

Thanks.

Not really that type of game in my experience. You'll find individuals that are super tough but if you have intel on them and come up with a plan to deal with them, your odds are pretty good. But death and revenge are all part of it if things go bad.

 

[cleveridea]

The entire game should have been Act IV with more complexity and strategy.

The story missions in this game are terrible. I don't know why Monolith thought these were acceptable missions for a game made in 2017. The vast majority are overly simple and just straight up boring. I felt like I suffered 20 hours of boring filler in order to get to the real game.

The fortress sieges/defense portions are the actual fun part of the game, and that's all in the Shadow Wars end game. Running around the battlefield supporting your troops and doing on the fly battle tactics feels great. I feel like I'm playing the actual game now and not just the overly long tutorial the game has been prepping me for.

I wish the fortress stuff was the whole game. Shadow of War should be you commanding your armies from the map screen and choosing which battles to fight. You should be making strategic decisions like where to pour your army resources and who should be leading your troops into battle.

Instead, the vast majority of the game is the boring open world and terrible story missions. I like this game, but man, it really is a missed opportunity. They should have went all in on the army and command aspect. Instead, they tried to find a balance like the last game, and the end result is a bit of a mess.

Also, it would have been nice if this game was less...racist. Talion should start off as a person hating Orcs and only wanting to use them for his own means, by the end, he should build a real bond with his troops and refuse this whole "domination" aspect altogether. Instead, the Orcs are treated as sub human people the entire game, and this is despite the fact that they obviously aren't all just monsters and crazies. It just feels...gross.

Yeah its really weird pacing also. Had some amazing battles then had an annoying old-AC style mission of following someone to eavesdrop but cant set off any alarms. Found it frustrating especially since I often fight the controls, like trying to jump up a building to get out of sight range but doing rolls instead (since same buttons jumps as rolls).

When I was seen I thought oh ok so I guess now I have to fight everyone or something bit nope, mission failed have to restart from the beginning.

 

[DrBo42]

The entire game should have been Act IV with more complexity and strategy.

The story missions in this game are terrible. I don't know why Monolith thought these were acceptable missions for a game made in 2017. The vast majority are overly simple and just straight up boring. I felt like I suffered 20 hours of boring filler in order to get to the real game.

The fortress sieges/defense portions are the actual fun part of the game, and that's all in the Shadow Wars end game. Running around the battlefield supporting your troops and doing on the fly battle tactics feels great. I feel like I'm playing the actual game now and not just the overly long tutorial the game has been prepping me for.

I wish the fortress stuff was the whole game. Shadow of War should be you commanding your armies from the map screen and choosing which battles to fight. You should be making strategic decisions like where to pour your army resources and who should be leading your troops into battle.

Instead, the vast majority of the game is the boring open world and terrible story missions. I like this game, but man, it really is a missed opportunity. They should have went all in on the army and command aspect. Instead, they tried to find a balance like the last game, and the end result is a bit of a mess.

Also, it would have been nice if this game was less...racist. Talion should start off as a person hating Orcs and only wanting to use them for his own means, by the end, he should build a real bond with his troops and refuse this whole "domination" aspect altogether. Instead, the Orcs are treated as sub human people the entire game, and this is despite the fact that they obviously aren't all just monsters and crazies. It just feels...gross.

But the orcs are monsters. They're bred to kill and serve. Racist? Dude...what? This domestication of orcs or good guy orcs isn't real in that universe. You're definitely meant to feel the parallel to the corruption of the nine with your use of the ring with the orcs though.

 

[WaterAstro]

Well, beat the game. The payoff was bad and made my experience feel shitty.

 

[Aklamarth]

Well, beat the game. The payoff was bad and made my experience feel shitty.

Game is a chore and i hate it and your post makes me to want to drop it and play Cuphead instead

 

[Ashtar]

But the orcs are monsters. They're bred to kill and serve. Racist? Dude...what? This domestication of orcs or good guy orcs isn't real in that universe. You're definitely meant to feel the parallel to the corruption of the nine with your use of the ring with the orcs though.

I'm not sure about that, I remember reading that Tolkien said there are "good orcs" but they just weren't in the battle.

The problem and racism comes into affect when you realize that the same "these things are sub human and deserve to be enslaved" was the exact same thinking used to justify slavery in real life, war like savages that are meant for nothing more than manual labor? It's pretty clear that celebrimbor is an elf supremacist as well.

I'm pretty sure there s a good Austin walker article that address it during shadow of mordor time (that is if you're interested)!

 

[RichiRamjag]

I'm not sure about that, I remember reading that Tolkien said there are "good orcs" but they just weren't in the battle.

The problem and racism comes into affect when you realize that the same "these things are sub human and deserve to be enslaved" was the exact same thinking used to justify slavery in real life, war like savages that are meant for nothing more than manual labor? It's pretty clear that celebrimbor is an elf supremacist as well.

I'm pretty sure there s a good Austin walker article that address it during shadow of mordor time (that is if you're interested)!

I’d be interested. I’m not what anyone would call a bleeding heart, but that thought has crossed my mind as I finished the original. Still love the system and wish it could be used in some other open world games.

 

[Truant]

I'm not sure about that, I remember reading that Tolkien said there are "good orcs" but they just weren't in the battle.

The problem and racism comes into affect when you realize that the same "these things are sub human and deserve to be enslaved" was the exact same thinking used to justify slavery in real life, war like savages that are meant for nothing more than manual labor? It's pretty clear that celebrimbor is an elf supremacist as well.

I'm pretty sure there s a good Austin walker article that address it during shadow of mordor time (that is if you're interested)!

I think it's also problematic to some extent that this is even discussed, as it opens for some unfavorable comparisons that I'm not at all comfortable with. It's a weird topic, and one I'm not intellectually equipped to participate in.

 

[DrBo42]

I'm not sure about that, I remember reading that Tolkien said there are "good orcs" but they just weren't in the battle.

The problem and racism comes into affect when you realize that the same "these things are sub human and deserve to be enslaved" was the exact same thinking used to justify slavery in real life, war like savages that are meant for nothing more than manual labor? It's pretty clear that celebrimbor is an elf supremacist as well.

I'm pretty sure there s a good Austin walker article that address it during shadow of mordor time (that is if you're interested)!

Dig it up if you can. I've never read anything about good orcs. Just the corruption and twisting of Elves.

"Made of stone and slime through the sorcery of Morgoth; East Elves, where The Silmarillion contains a suggestion that Orcs are descended from East Elves captured by Melkor, their minds and bodies distorted and corrupted"

Obviously I understand the viewpoint of humans viewing orcs as nothing but beasts being compared to views of white supremacists. But you're talking about different species here and one that's a purposeful evil corruption in a fantasy setting. Now the view of black people in Tolkien's world is more problematic IIRC. Which makes Baranor a welcome inclusion even if he's in a shite story.

 

[heringer]

To people who have finished: are there credits after Act 3?

Also, how are you guys dealing with loot/recruiting? I often don't know what I prefer. My gear is pretty shitty but I need dem captains.

 

[KingV]

To people who have finished: are there credits after Act 3?

Also, how are you guys dealing with loot/recruiting? I often don't know what I prefer. My gear is pretty shitty but I need dem captains.

I always recruit when possible, since I kill enough accidentally to gear up.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Kind of seems useless to have a fast travel option for quests if it doesn't even bring you to the nearest fast travel location.

Also, the last Eltariel quest was kind of lame. Ring Wraiths are incredibly easy to fight, and that was basically just a series of Ring Wraith bosses.

 

[Calderc]

So how do the followers work? I go into the marketplace and i have a bunch of followers but they don't appear in the Army screen?

 

[RichiRamjag]

This first chapter is rough. I can barely pay attention to what’s going on as I’m bored to tears and sick of running around in a cave. The quests in both this game and the first are awful. Still following f’in Gollum around? Can’t wait to move on.

 

[BigDug13]

So how do the followers work? I go into the marketplace and i have a bunch of followers but they don't appear in the Army screen?

Can't do anything with them till you take over your first stronghold story mission.

 

[Conkerkid11]

It's really dumb that you have to go around swapping warchiefs and whatnot around just to get them to fight in the fight pits and level them up. There really needs to be a better way to train your leaders.

This first chapter is rough. I can barely pay attention to what's going on as I'm bored to tears and sick of running around in a cave. The quests in both this game and the first are awful. Still following f'in Gollum around? Can't wait to move on.

Good luck. The game doesn't get rid of that shit until like 30 hours in.

 

[RichiRamjag]

It's really dumb that you have to go around swapping warchiefs and whatnot around just to get them to fight in the fight pits and level them up. There really needs to be a better way to train your leaders.


Good luck. The game doesn't get rid of that shit until like 30 hours in.

I can deal with the missions once I get into the meat of the nemesis system, but it’s especially rough without it.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Dig it up if you can. I've never read anything about good orcs. Just the corruption and twisting of Elves.

"Made of stone and slime through the sorcery of Morgoth; East Elves, where The Silmarillion contains a suggestion that Orcs are descended from East Elves captured by Melkor, their minds and bodies distorted and corrupted"

Obviously I understand the viewpoint of humans viewing orcs as nothing but beasts being compared to views of white supremacists. But you're talking about different species here and one that's a purposeful evil corruption in a fantasy setting. Now the view of black people in Tolkien's world is more problematic IIRC. Which makes Baranor a welcome inclusion even if he's in a shite story.

From Letter 153:

[Eru/God] gave special 'sub-creative' powers to certain of His highest created beings: that is a guarantee that what they devised and made should be given the reality of Creation. Of course within limits, and of course subject to certain commands or prohibitions. But if they 'fell', as the Diabolus Morgoth did, and started making things 'for himself, to be their Lord', these would then 'be', even if Morgoth broke the supreme ban against making other 'rational' creatures like Elves or Men. They would at least 'be' real physical realities in the physical world, however evil they might prove, even 'mocking' the Children of God. They would be Morgoth's greatest Sins, abuses of his highest privilege, and would be creatures begotten of Sin, and naturally bad. (I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making — necessary to their actual existence — even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good.) But whether they could have 'souls' or 'spirits' seems a different question; and since in my myth at any rate I do not conceive of the making of souls or spirits, things of an equal order if not an equal power to the Valar, as a possible 'delegation', I have represented at least the Orcs as pre-existing real beings on whom the Dark Lord has exerted the fullness of his power in remodelling and corrupting them, not making them.

Basically, Orcs are a corruption of a natural creation, thus representing the heights of Melkor's hubris and sin, but they are not themselves inherently evil or irredeemable. Eru would not tolerate them to exist in his world otherwise, which implies that their evil nature is probably rooted nearly entirely in their nurture. Orcs are more meant to represent what ANY sentient being in the world would be like underneath the thumb of Darkness, not just some special bad species that are always Chaotic Evil. Maybe if the Orcs could ever get away from Melkor or Sauron, and live peacefully, they would eventually become peaceful people. There are no "good" Orcs, but there are Orcs who have within them the potential to be good in the same way there are Men and Elves who have within them the potential for Evil.

I don't think Tolkien ever meant for the Orcs to be analogous to any real world human race; if anything they are just meant to be an amalgation of all of mankind's worst tendencies like rampant industrialization, unfettered conquest, looting and pillaging, etc. In fact, making them a stand in for any sort of human sort of ruins the point of the Orc/Human/Elf relationship. One is all the worst parts of humanity, one is all of the best, and we sort of fall into the middle with the capacity for both.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

So how do the followers work? I go into the marketplace and i have a bunch of followers but they don't appear in the Army screen?

When you have a blank space on the Army roster hover over it and press Square/X (whatever is the Market button). This will give you the ability to put a purchased Orc in that spot.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

But the orcs are monsters. They're bred to kill and serve. Racist? Dude...what? This domestication of orcs or good guy orcs isn't real in that universe. You're definitely meant to feel the parallel to the corruption of the nine with your use of the ring with the orcs though.

Monsters that look and have similar intelligence to humans.

You can justify it with bullshit fantasy jargon, but it still comes off as shitty.

 

[Roussow]

Question: I'm around halfway/near the end of act 2 (just estimating here). I hear act 4 is basically a post game with emphasis on fortresses and nemisis stuff. At this point I'm evenly distributing my time between the story missions and everything else? Should I just mainline the story through to the end before really engaging with all the systems? I kinda want to avoid as much burnout as possible.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Question: I'm around halfway/near the end of act 2 (just estimating here). I hear act 4 is basically a post game with emphasis on fortresses and nemisis stuff. At this point I'm evenly distributing my time between the story missions and everything else? Should I just mainline the story through to the end before really engaging with all the systems? I kinda want to avoid as much burnout as possible.

Yeah, just do all the main story stuff. You don't really level up quickly enough doing other things, and focusing on the Nemesis system too early on will just result in you getting disappointed when people you invested a lot of time in die or betray you.

 

[Ashtar]

I’d be interested. I’m not what anyone would call a bleeding heart, but that thought has crossed my mind as I finished the original. Still love the system and wish it could be used in some other open world games.

I think it's also problematic to some extent that this is even discussed, as it opens for some unfavorable comparisons that I'm not at all comfortable with. It's a weird topic, and one I'm not intellectually equipped to participate in.

Dig it up if you can. I've never read anything about good orcs. Just the corruption and twisting of Elves.

"Made of stone and slime through the sorcery of Morgoth; East Elves, where The Silmarillion contains a suggestion that Orcs are descended from East Elves captured by Melkor, their minds and bodies distorted and corrupted"

Obviously I understand the viewpoint of humans viewing orcs as nothing but beasts being compared to views of white supremacists. But you're talking about different species here and one that's a purposeful evil corruption in a fantasy setting. Now the view of black people in Tolkien's world is more problematic IIRC. Which makes Baranor a welcome inclusion even if he's in a shite story.

From Letter 153:



Basically, Orcs are a corruption of a natural creation, thus representing the heights of Melkor's hubris and sin, but they are not themselves inherently evil or irredeemable. Eru would not tolerate them to exist in his world otherwise, which implies that their evil nature is probably rooted nearly entirely in their nurture. Orcs are more meant to represent what ANY sentient being in the world would be like underneath the thumb of Darkness, not just some special bad species that are always Chaotic Evil. Maybe if the Orcs could ever get away from Melkor or Sauron, and live peacefully, they would eventually become peaceful people. There are no "good" Orcs, but there are Orcs who have within them the potential to be good in the same way there are Men and Elves who have within them the potential for Evil.

I don't think Tolkien ever meant for the Orcs to be analogous to any real world human race; if anything they are just meant to be an amalgation of all of mankind's worst tendencies like rampant industrialization, unfettered conquest, looting and pillaging, etc. In fact, making them a stand in for any sort of human sort of ruins the point of the Orc/Human/Elf relationship. One is all the worst parts of humanity, one is all of the best, and we sort of fall into the middle with the capacity for both.

Thanks for posting this, that second part is basically the plot to warcraft isn't it? Orcs were perceived as being evil because of the demon blood, or weird space aliens or something. That it isn't that they are evil in and of themselves. In my minds eye, I never saw a direct corollary between orcs and a particular race.

However we exist in this reality with all of it's history and the "they're all bad, savages if not for us saving them from themselves can't be denied. Like I said earlier the line of thinking has been used in the past to do horrible things.

To be clear i am able to separate a game from reality and enjoy a game who's themes I don't agree with but I just think it's worth noticing and thinking about. But some of the things celebrimbor (who's clearly an ass and could be classified as an elf supremacist) says definitely make my antennae go up

Here's Austin Walker article on it
https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...n-beings-shadow-of-mordor-watch-dogs-and.html

In Mordor, the “evilness” of the Orcs serves a clear purpose: it attempts to justify the horrific behavior of Talion, who spends the latter half of the game using his ghostly powers to enslave Orc after Orc.

There is simply no dressing this up any other way. Talion places his hand on an Orc’s face. His ghostly inhabitant takes control and shouts about power. The Orc’s eyes glow blue and he immediately comes under your sway. If he is a normal foot soldier, he begins to fight for you. If he is one of the captains or war chiefs, you can then issue a specific command: go fight another Orc captain, or build up your reputation and enter the service of a chief, for instance. These characters address this act in passing, but there is no critique here. You play as the hero Talion, who enslaves the Orcs.

This is worse because of the problematic nature of Lord of the Rings’ Orcs. “Look at them,” says Talion to his ghost-friend, “Vile savage beasts.” The ghost replies, his imperialism dressed up as spirited determination, “And we shall command their savagery.” We are reminded again and again of their innately “evil” nature. They hate civilization. They hate beauty. One of the Orc captains I fight has the title “The Literate One”—the joke of course is that these dark savages don’t even read. It’s unavoidable: the characterization of “Orkish” society is caught up in a history of white, European military and cultural colonialism, with narratives of the “dark continent” and the “mysterious east.”

 

[HelloNewman]

This game is hilarious I got killed by an enemy and as he's getting ready to humiliate me he drops dead from dot damage.

 

[Jintor]

it might be worth moving the orcs/power/slave/race discussion to another thread as it brings in stuff about tolkein and indeed fantasy more generally

 

[heringer]

I just killed a legendary orc because I couldn't recruit him.

At least I got a nice legendary ring for it.

If I shame a legendary, does it stop from being legendary or is it just the level that decreases?

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Everything about Shelob is so so dumb.

 

[recklesscognition]

I cannot believe there is a 6-8 hour grind at the end of the game

Spoiler

for a freaking cutscene.

Are you serious? This is top 5 one of the worst games I've ever played in my life. Remove Act IV and it's a playable game.