when the entire article is a response to how colleges are handling - or mishandling - hate speech on campus by passing codes or policies i'm not sure why you're applying this to people protesting. i imagine protest is the exact dialogue the aclu supports in lieu of restrictions set down by the university itself. milo is free to speak at the college just like people are free to protest him.
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Milo Yiannopoulos's UC Berkeley speech cancelled due to protests, campus on lockdown
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when the entire article is a response to how colleges are handling - or mishandling - hate speech on campus by passing codes or policies i'm not sure why you're applying this to people protesting. i imagine protest is the exact dialogue the aclu supports in lieu of restrictions set down by the university itself. milo is free to speak at the college just like people are free to protest him.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Just gonna leave this truth bomb here
Spot. On.
Bl@de
Member
Says the man with a symbol of fascism as an avatar. Ironic.
A hammer and sickle isn't a fascist symbol...?
... but wasn't the whole point of this demonstration precisely to shut down this speaker and wasn't that specific intention accomplished? My understanding here is that it was not just your average protest?
If any of you are confused about why hate speech, or "fighting words," is not protected speech under the First Amendment, read Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. The ironing in this situation is delicious if you read why the person's arrest for speaking was upheld 9-0 in that case, especially in the context of this thread.
The government can arrest you for calling someone a fascist.
What you linked to was about people using their authority to ban speech. That has no relation to protesting.
TBiddy
Member
Everytime I see this, I always think of that old saying "The more you disagree with someone, the nicer you should talk to them".
There's only thing that will come from this. More polarization, more extremism on both wings and more violence. Milo and his followers will use these events to point out that the left-wingers are only tolerant, as long as you agree with them, while the left-wingers will see this shutdown as a succes, which will inspire even more violent protests around the US. In turn that will make the extreme right-wingers more violent, when they seek to "protect" their idol.
Nothing good will come from this. At all.
This is written from an outsiders perspective, btw. I'm from Denmark, and we make a big deal out of allowing everyone to say their thoughts in public, no matter how shitty they are. You can be a raging racist, a misandrist, a misogynist, someone who believes in killing all white people or whatever you wish to believe, and generally speaking people will allow you to say your piece.
There's only thing that will come from this. More polarization, more extremism on both wings and more violence. Milo and his followers will use these events to point out that the left-wingers are only tolerant, as long as you agree with them, while the left-wingers will see this shutdown as a succes, which will inspire even more violent protests around the US. In turn that will make the extreme right-wingers more violent, when they seek to "protect" their idol.
Nothing good will come from this. At all.
This is written from an outsiders perspective, btw. I'm from Denmark, and we make a big deal out of allowing everyone to say their thoughts in public, no matter how shitty they are. You can be a raging racist, a misandrist, a misogynist, someone who believes in killing all white people or whatever you wish to believe, and generally speaking people will allow you to say your piece.
everyday math
Banned
We've been pretty nice to them for a long fucking time. And guess where thought got us? Give a mouse a cookie and he'll take the entire gallon of milk.
What your seeing is a very small portion of the protests in the end. Most have been very peaceful.
What your seeing is a very small portion of the protests in the end. Most have been very peaceful.
Bl@de
Member
No of course not. It is the peacful symbol of the working class. So peaceful that my family left their home country for the west and several countries in the former Eastern Bloc have laws that define the hammer and sickle as the symbol of a "totalitarian and criminal ideology", and the public display of the hammer and sickle and other Communist symbols such as the red star is considered a criminal offence.
https://twitter.com/dancalbear/status/827012870785282048
Not sure what he means by protestor but some guy nearly gets beaten down by a mob. Looks like he was being interviewed at the time.
Not sure what he means by protestor but some guy nearly gets beaten down by a mob. Looks like he was being interviewed at the time.
TBiddy
Member
But what do you think will come of being "not nice" (in lack of better words)? Do you think they will suddenly stop and change their ways?
In Denmark we have freedom of speech under penalty of the law. Basically that means, you can say whatever you want, about whoever you want, whenever you want. No one is going to stop you. But, that does not mean it's legal to say "All whites must die" or "All blacks must die". There's a big difference here. One that many danes also don't understand, so I don't blame you.
If you spout racist remarks, ie., you could eventually go to court and get a small fine, but noone is stopping you from booking a building and saying what you want.
Right. Specifically the ACLU refutes universities imposing policies to block hate speech, but that isn't the only thing stated. The ACLU also makes an argument for tolerating hate speech, and not only in the context of administrative policies, but in the spirit of, in the ACLU's words, "academic freedom."
Now, the protest acted to, and did, prevent the Breitbart speaker. It wasn't condoned by the university administration, but surely the ACLU's argument, even if we limit it to the spirit of the argument, undermines the statement "Freedom of speech means the government can't persecute us for our opinions and ideas. It does not mean we the people must tolerate hateful rhetoric," which is what I replied to?
everyday math
Banned
Huh
Messofanego
Banned
You should watch the Brainwashing Of My Dad documentary, it might explain your mother's descent into garbage political views and calling Milo a nice boy. Conservatives have better and more fact-based news outlets than Fox News. But if you don't want to convince her against hate speech or explain bigotry, then just say so cause you come off as really defeatist in this fight for the rights of the less privileged.
Your post was chastising people saying that they were going make things worse. If things are getting worse no matter what we do, what was the point of your post?
I'm not a Stalinist and I'm not giving up the symbol because of the crimes of those who misused it. It's no different than how the American flag means freedom to some and terror to others.
Unlike fascism, there is no inherent need in socialism for authoritarianism.
excelsiorlef
Member
To condescend to American leftists about their country's superior culture
Frozenprince
Banned
I question your enlightened European views on racial harmony and tolerance.
Because not one country in Europe right now is diving towards the far right bottom of the racist barrel.
No sir.
everyday math
Banned
Tell me what should we do. Because you've probably seen the many peaceful protests right? They've been allowed to say their shit for years. Uninterrupted. They grew and grew. Their hatred wove it's roots deep into America.
So tell me what should we do when they now control all facets of the government. If been over a week now and you've seen the damage they've already caused.
TBiddy
Member
To participate in a debate, I find interesting. I don't believe that violent protest will help.
Great post. Really.
I don't know. If I had the answer, I'd probably be a much more influential man. I'm only stating that in my opinion violently shutting down shit like this will only further the divide between the two sides.
no? I don't agree with your statement at all. Unless you are taking the word "tolerate" in a weird way.
There is absolutely zero chance the ACLU would be against a protest. They are very pro free speech,which includes protesting. The fact that someone else decided to cancel the speech because of the protest doesn't change anything.
Frozenprince
Banned
Then you are ignorant of US history.
Right, that means you have less freedom of speech than the U.S. And the person you're discussing? He says things like that. He also supports a white nationalist that called for the genocide of American blacks. The stuff he's said about Muslims is generally stronger than the stuff getting people arrested in Denmark.
You're welcome to your opinion regarding protesting and blockading, of course, but the idea that somehow Denmark is a bastion of free speech compared to the U.S. is just a little silly.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
It's like people keep forgetting we won our freedom from violently protesting the english.
"Besides, when hate is out in the open, people can see the problem. Then they can organize effectively to counter bad attitudes, possibly change them, and forge solidarity against the forces of intolerance."
i'm not sure where the spirit is being violated
Yep. we're a country that murdered its way to freedom twice.
everyday math
Banned
why are they covering him with chocolate syrup and coconut flakes?
Because they taste better that way.
everyday math
Banned
We're trying to bridge the divide by using nice safe protest techniques.
SirRattleBalls
Banned
Jesus , whats wrong with the snowflake attitudes these day. when you don't agree with what someone says then debate them and open up a line of dialogue ... don't ban them. You shut down the conversation .. this is why Trump won and the UK left the EU. The left kept on thinking they knew what was best.
TBiddy
Member
I doubt Milo Yiannopoulos would ever get convicted of anything. But I'm no legal expert, of course. Also, I've never seen or heard of anyone getting arrested for saying racist stuff. The police are involved, but only to make a report about it. They do not arrest people for that, to my knowledge.
I don't believe there would be violent protests on any Danish university, if a hate monger such as Milo would make a speech there. And that's what I mean when I applaud our approach to free spech. There are protests when the local group of PEGIDA demonstrates every week, but they are rarely violent. There are violent protests from time to time in Denmark, mostly by the extreme left, and the usual response by society is not as positive as in this case.
Shadowhelper
Banned
Why was he invited to speak in the first place? This was obviously potentially going to happen, and play right into Brietbarts hands.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean entitlement to be invited to give speeches.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean entitlement to be invited to give speeches.
you danes sound lazy
he wasn't banned. i'm not sure how open someone parading around on a "dangerous faggot tour" is to debate and lines of dialogue. but guess what, even with him not speaking, the conversation is still there for the people who it matters for most - the students on campus.
Messofanego
Banned
We need new Boondocks now more than ever, only if the creator and writing team came back.
excelsiorlef
Member
Nope
everyday math
Banned
It was by a student group there. Not the school.
Yes, I would entirely agree with you if this had been a peaceful protest and not the riotous spectacle that's been fudging up CNN the last few hours. It's not really the same thing.
So, just to be clear, we would all be against it if the government prevented him from speaking, because that violates the 1st. And we would oppose it if the university prevented him, because that would violate academic freedom and the 1st. But if the student protest/riot intentionally prevents the speaking engagement (per CNN), we're fine with that?
Monocle
Member
You really think a good faith dialogue is possible with a person who preaches and defends bigotry, and lies all day long about people who stand for equality and acceptance being the real bigots? Are you serious?
MadJackChurchill
Banned
Of course, this will stop Milo for sure! Just talk to them in a debate that they totally want to have. There's a reason this man is the editor of Breibart, there is no way in hell his mind will be changed.
I'm pretty sure many at Berkeley think the same, hence why they're rioting.
Monocle
Member
It's not just that his mind won't be changed. He's a sociopathic opportunist who might not even believe half the things he says. It's that engaging him in rational debate elevates his hate speech to the level of a valid position, and gives him a platform to attack and corrupt more people with his sophistry.
everyday math
Banned
Prefect example is Trump.
Wuthering_Heights
Banned
So, instead of just letting him come in, speak to his echo chamber, and leave quietly, you protest, riot, and burn things, bringing even more attention and exposure to the man and his message.
Solid plan.
Solid plan.
The first amendment does not protect fighting words (Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire) and he sure likes to throw around colorful language to open up "debate." I wouldn't be sad if he were arrested for it.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
You think ignoring people makes them go away? Are you that naive?
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