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[fart]

Fart,

I disagree.

Assuming you have a Wireless Access Point with DHCP and SSID being broad-casted and no WEP encription: I can take any WiFi card compatible (that is a mattero of standards... 802.11a/g/b) and connect to that freeWan and go online with the connection in infrastructure mode and a proper TCP(UDP)/IP stack in the DS.

//NAT and Firewalling issues remain for both approaches, proprietary tunnelling or not.

If there is WEP and no SSID broadcasted ( say it is my own network ) I can just imput them.

How would you tunnel with the proprietary DS solution if you cannot configure the Access Point manually ?

That plus the fact that Nintendo would have to come up with their own LIVE service make for a big "mmmmmmmhhhhhhh".

maybe if i say "proprietary protocol encapsulated over IP" it will make more sense. yes, they have to implement a tcp/ip stack no matter what. however, compatibility across the wide range of access points will require thinking carefully about things like port usage and so on. rather than leaving this up to the developer, nintendo is more likely to give out a library + protocol that hides all the complexity and allows the developer to just make communications work with as little effort as possible. now it seems to me that the obvious solution is to open a single TCP socket and just tunnel whatever gameboy protocol nintendo comes up with over that.

ok, now firewalling will, for the most part, always be a problem (unless we actively try to poke a hole in it as part of our tunneling scheme, again a benefit of standard implementations). NAT, on the other hand, is imminently workable given a standard implementation and a properly behaving NAT box.

so, i have one more reason to believe nintendo might try something like this: what protocol do you think DS's will use to communicate in ad-hoc mode? IP? that seems too predictable for nintendo. i think it's more likely they'll use a proprietary protocol. now, we've engineered this scheme for peer-peer networks, and we want to extend it to the global IP network. do we scrap our brilliant, games only, wlan protocol and start over again on a standards based platform? hell no, we're nintendo, we start kludging.

 

[Mjunter]

off topic--Why in the hell is Kitsune not posting on the GAF anymore?

With threads like this popping up constantly. It's really not that much of a mystery.

 

[Panajev2001a]

maybe if i say "proprietary protocol encapsulated over IP" it will make more sense. yes, they have to implement a tcp/ip stack no matter what. however, compatibility across the wide range of access points will require thinking carefully about things like port usage and so on. rather than leaving this up to the developer, nintendo is more likely to give out a library + protocol that hides all the complexity and allows the developer to just make communications work with as little effort as possible. now it seems to me that the obvious solution is to open a single TCP socket and just tunnel whatever gameboy protocol nintendo comes up with over that.

ok, now firewalling will, for the most part, always be a problem (unless we actively try to poke a hole in it as part of our tunneling scheme, again a benefit of standard implementations). NAT, on the other hand, is imminently workable given a standard implementation and a properly behaving NAT box.

so, i have one more reason to believe nintendo might try something like this: what protocol do you think DS's will use to communicate in ad-hoc mode? IP? that seems too predictable for nintendo. i think it's more likely they'll use a proprietary protocol. now, we've engineered this scheme for peer-peer networks, and we want to extend it to the global IP network. do we scrap our brilliant, games only, wlan protocol and start over again on a standards based platform? hell no, we're nintendo, we start kludging.

I can see what you are saying, but having worked for almost 3 years in a Networking lab that had practicaly as mission to help the promotion of "standards" does not help me to digest Nintendo's idea.

I can see what they are doing: they are taking the Motorola add-on technology for short-range WiFi, embedding it with the DS and enhancing it a bit to support infrastructure mode.

Then they add the TCP/IP stack, work on the tunnelling software and give it to developers.

For them it is cost-effective.

Extend a technology you already own, how Cisco of them.

I still disagree with you that the major hassle would be, for developers, things like TCP port usage in the context of a standard WiFi 802.11 implementation.

The major pain in th neck is the whole "data center+billing service+match-making service": PlayOnline and Xbox LIVE solve the real problem.

Internally the PlayStation 2 and Xbox use normal Ethernet solutions, quite standard TCP/IP solutions for networking.

I took my Network Adapter, connected it to my Router and I was online, playing FFXI and other games on my PlayStation 2.

The port issue is as simple as Sony mandating certain range of ports in their Q&A phase (rejecting titles that do not conform) and I am sure with PSP the low level Networking parts will be abstracted from the developers as much as possible.

I see Nintendo forced in their proprietary solution because of cost saving needs (they want to re-use the technology they co-developed with Motorola).

 

[fart]

yah, i have no doubt that the psp will be fully standards based, just as the ps2 and xbox are (for the most part).

i also agree that a standards based solution is ultimately the smartest, but this is why nintendo needs to get into networking NOW and not later, so they can build their engineering assets as well as their network market penetration before it becomes a deciding factor in the console market. if nintendo had the kind of engineering assets sony and microsoft have at their disposable, they would not be where they are now, and we wouldn't be practically expecting them to take the stupidest route into the market.

The port issue is as simple as Sony mandating certain range of ports in their Q&A phase (rejecting titles that do not conform) and I am sure with PSP the low level Networking parts will be abstracted from the developers as much as possible.

sony is more set up for providing end user support on technical issues than nintendo is. i'm not following the psp like you are, so yah, sure.

 

[kaching]

You should all be ashamed of yourselves

Yeah, taking English translations of comments made in Japanese at face value is really bad form.

 

[GDGF]

Yeah, but everything else that has come since then has pretty much validated the statement that the PSP isn't a system you take outside (for any extended period of time, anyway )

 

[kaching]

Sorry, what were those things? I must have missed a few updates.

 

[fart]

battery life i'm guessing

 

[neptunes]

while there hasn't been any updates from Kutagi lately, kaz mentioned something a while ago.

 

[cvxfreak]

I'll bet good money Majesco is developing an online browser for the DS.

 

[GDGF]

battery life i'm guessing

You have chosen wisely

 

[jedimike]

Maybe there was confusion from inaccurate translation, but after buying into the GCN online gaming network, I'm extremely pessimistic about anything having to do with Ninteno and online gaming.

 

[kaching]

You have chosen wisely

Yeah, he's got your number.

 

[GDGF]

Now, now. I wouldn't be so hard on sony if they didn't make it so easy. They've been pretty predictable in the mistakes they've been making with the PSP. Pretty much the same route all of the GB's competition has taken.

 

[kaching]

Please. You readily jump to conclusions and exaggerate the scale of the issue. You're hardly taking an objective approach and I think you've admitted as much in the past.

 

[neptunes]

It's funny, a week ago half of you guys agreed with iwata in terms of nintendo stance towards online play even saying "online play isn't really necessary" but now you guys seem to re-iterate that nintendo will have DS games that can be played online.

 

[GDGF]

Your words wound me, kaching!

(nah, not really)

Look, I admit I do have fun pointing to all the chinks in Sony's armor, but truth is, if they didn't make it so darn easy, I might not do it. I'm a slackass, ya see. I'm not gonna create lies and misinformation to further my cause. I lack the motivation for all that. I'm just gonna tell it like it is, and right now what it is ain't too hot for Sony IMO. If you don't like it, tell the big S to get on the ball and correct those obvious problems with the platform that I like to harp on about. Then I will have no ammo and all will be OK in kaching land. Until then

 

[Kobun Heat]

It's funny, a week ago half of you guys agreed with iwata in terms of nintendo stance towards online play even saying "online play isn't really necessary" but now you guys seem to re-iterate that nintendo will have games that can be played online.

I think it's more along the lines of pointing out that Miyamoto isn't ruling out the possibility. They're still thinking about having games that allow online play. I doubt they'll be there at launch, but it's not being shoved off the table or anything.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

It's funny, a week ago half of you guys agreed with iwata in terms of nintendo stance towards online play even saying "online play isn't really necessary" but now you guys seem to re-iterate that nintendo will have DS games that can be played online.

I don't care for asparagus, but if someone said it didn't exist I'd correct them.

 

[JasoNsider]

Slightly off-topic:

Kobun, did you get the job at IGN? I see that you wrote the piece based on this interview. If so: congratulations!

 

[kaching]

Then I will have no ammo and all will be OK in kaching land.

I don't think you really understand where the breakdown is. I didn't accuse you of inventing lies or misinformation, but claiming you "tell it like it is" is a bit much. But your criticism is both highly subjective AND inconsistently applied. You don't bat an eye running with Kutaragi's translated comments but Miyamoto's comments should be taken with a big grain of salt due to possible translation errors.

I don't have any problem with criticism of the PSP. But just try to hold yourself to the same critical standards with the DS...or apply the same leniency to the PSP that you impart to the DS. Either way

 

[jedimike]

You have it wrong. I distinctily remember Reggie stating that WiFi was what was going to be used to play with people from other time zones.

seems fitting...

Hello...this is exactly what their PR rep said about 2 months ago. "We'll leave it to developers". Just like with the GC. Let me be the first to say F*CK YOU, REGGIE!

How stupid.

 

[Kobun Heat]

HAY GUYS LETS BUMP OLD THREADZ LOL AM I RITE?

 

[Kon Tiki]

..as long as a third party develops the appropriate software.

Miyamoto was quick to point out that Nintendo itself is not interested in developing the possible Internet capabilities of the DS. The company is focusing on gameplay rather than hardware capabilities and plans to make the machine enjoyable without the need for additional devices or peripherals. “The one thing we don’t want to do is to add this and that and every connection and capability [to the DS]. We want to make the DS enjoyable, by itself, as far as we can."

Uhh what?

1) You said it was software, not hardware.

2) Online gaming is not part of 'gameplay'?

 

[Kobun Heat]

Uhh what?

1) You said it was software, not hardware.

2) Online gaming is not part of 'gameplay'?

Read the whole thread, it's a rollercoaster ride of misinformation and awful translations.

 

[doncale]

just give me this:

as you write with the stylus on your DS, your buddy sees you writing in realtime on his DS

 

[StrikerObi]

just give me this:

as you write with the stylus on your DS, your buddy sees you writing in realtime on his DS

No, you write what you write and then you hit SEND and it sends it to everybody else in your chat sessons. That's how it works, unless they have changed it since E3.

 

[Gahiggidy]

REGGIE LIED!! NBOTS CRIED!!

 

[Speevy]

Sony is a flip-flopper though.

 

[Scalemail Ted]

I miss Kitsune