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MLB '12-'13 OffSeason OT: Magic is the New Market Inefficiency

A

aFIGurANT

Member
When do the BP hats go on sale usually? MLB.com is having closeout sales for most teams' 2012 versions but nowhere do I see them selling/advertising the new stuff.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Blackace said:
Are you kidding?
Click to expand...

Are you?

Jaso had a great season last year. He was much more productive, he's younger, he plays a premium position while Morse can't play any position, and one who is making a shit load less money. On top of that Morse can't even stay healthy.

I really can't see any justification at all in swapping Jaso for Morse. None.
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
darkside31337 said:
Are you?

Jaso had a great season last year. He was much more productive, he's younger, he plays a premium position while Morse can't play any position, and one who is making a shit load less money. On top of that Morse can't even stay healthy.

I really can't see any justification at all in swapping Jaso for Morse. None.
Click to expand...

Offensively he was not much more productive.. 2 years ago Mike was a waaaay better hitter.. Granted I don't think he is really worth trading for.. but to say Jaso is a better hitter than Morse is false..
 
R

RBH

Member
The Nationals, according to multiple people with knowledge of the situation, sent slugger Michael Morse to the Seattle Mariners in a three-way trade that netted them right-hander A.J. Cole, the pitching prospect who last winter served as the centerpiece of the trade that brought Gio Gonzalez from the Oakland A’s to the Nationals. The Mariners sent catcher John Jaso to Oakland to complete the deal.
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.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
RBH said:
.
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Makes a lot of sense for the A's. Jaso is the total stereotypical Billy Beane type of player.

Also really hope the Mariners don't try to actually play Montero behind the plate. The poor kid already has enough trouble actually hitting a baseball.
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
darkside31337 said:
Makes a lot of sense for the A's. Jaso is the total stereotypical Billy Beane type of player.

Also really hope the Mariners don't try to actually play Montero behind the plate. The poor kid already has enough trouble actually hitting a baseball.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure that is what the trade means. Also even if he starts hitting the ball well he loses value at DH unless he turns into the 2nd coming of Edgar..

Speaking of Billy Beane how could you see Brad Pitt and not Kevin Spacey when casting?
 
R

RBH

Member
FanGraphs article on John Jaso:


http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/appreciating-john-jaso/



In many ways, Jaso is Scott Hatteberg reborn. After spending his time in Boston as a part-time C/DH, the A’s decided to give him a full time job at first base. At 32, he got 500 plate appearances for the first time, and he rewarded Oakland with a +3 win season, including a 120 wRC+. You’ve probably heard about those 2002 A’s. They made for a pretty good story.

11 years later, Billy Beane is at it again. Jaso was born to be on Beane’s team. The A’s probably won’t be turning Jaso into a first baseman, given that he’s likely more valuable to them as a part-time catcher, but this has been a skillset that has been aligned with the A’s for quite some time. For good reason, too. Billy Beane knows that these kinds of hitters are often better than their former teams realized.
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R

rando14

Member
Sucks to see Jaso go, I really liked him last year. But I can understand the swap. Mariners needed to lighten up on C/DH, and with Mike Zunino coming up (hopefully sooner than later plz plz) we'll have another guy at the C.

Welcome Morse :)
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
rando14 said:
Sucks to see Jaso go, I really liked him last year. But I can understand the swap. Mariners needed to lighten up on C/DH, and with Mike Zunino coming up (hopefully sooner than later plz plz) we'll have another guy at the C.

Welcome back Morse :)
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fixed
 
M

MonkeyDKenshin

Neo Member
Blackace said:
Are you kidding?
Click to expand...

They must be. Morse has averaged a 132 wRC+ over the past 3 years (32% above league average). Jaso's averaged a 114 wRC+ in the same time span. Jaso was better last year, but that's the clear outlier. It's safe to say Morse is the better hitter.

That said, Morse's defensive capabilities are standing at first base or tripping over himself in the outfield. You can stick him at DH so he doesn't hurt you defensively, but I'd much rather have a catcher hitting 14% above league average under control for 3 more seasons than a DH for one. That's not even taking into consideration the 1B/DH logjam they have.

In short, Jack Z is somewhat incompetent.
 
R

RBH

Member
Didn't realize how Cole performed at high Single A last year (0-7, 7.82 ERA) before getting sent back down to low A.
 
R

rando14

Member
MonkeyDKenshin said:
They must be. Morse has averaged a 132 wRC+ over the past 3 years (32% above league average). Jaso's averaged a 114 wRC+ in the same time span. Jaso was better last year, but that's the clear outlier. It's safe to say Morse is the better hitter.

That said, Morse's defensive capabilities are standing at first base or tripping over himself in the outfield. You can stick him at DH so he doesn't hurt you defensively, but I'd much rather have a catcher hitting 14% above league average under control for 3 more seasons than a DH for one. That's not even taking into consideration the 1B/DH logjam they have.

In short, Jack Z is somewhat incompetent and desperate.
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.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
Schattenjäger;46532036 said:
What's the status on Michael Pineda ? Is he gonna be a starter this year ?
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lol

He is currently rehabbing in a drunk tank, not going to be ready for this season in all likelihood.
 
B

bluemax

Banned
Blackace said:
Offensively he was not much more productive.. 2 years ago Mike was a waaaay better hitter.. Granted I don't think he is really worth trading for.. but to say Jaso is a better hitter than Morse is false..
Click to expand...

Mike Morse is a worse hitter than Casper Wells who the Mariners already had. This is an awful trade.

This trade makes zero sense. The Mariners have no starting catcher and no backup catcher and they just added a redundant player with no position. I can't think of a single reason this makes sense.
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
MonkeyDKenshin said:
They must be. Morse has averaged a 132 wRC+ over the past 3 years (32% above league average). Jaso's averaged a 114 wRC+ in the same time span. Jaso was better last year, but that's the clear outlier. It's safe to say Morse is the better hitter.

That said, Morse's defensive capabilities are standing at first base or tripping over himself in the outfield. You can stick him at DH so he doesn't hurt you defensively, but I'd much rather have a catcher hitting 14% above league average under control for 3 more seasons than a DH for one. That's not even taking into consideration the 1B/DH logjam they have.

In short, Jack Z is somewhat incompetent.
Click to expand...
Agree 100% I just hope there is something on the burner where this move will make sense but I don't see anyone giving up young catching..

bluemax said:
Mike Morse is a worse hitter than Casper Wells who the Mariners already had. This is an awful trade.

This trade makes zero sense. The Mariners have no starting catcher and no backup catcher and they just added a redundant player with no position. I can't think of a single reason this makes sense.
Click to expand...
What? .228 Casper Wells? Don't get me wrong.. the trade is not really a good one. But let's not pretend that Wells or Jaso are really close to as good of a hitter as Morse has been the last few years..
 
M

Macattk15

Member
Morse is a better hitter than Jaso. John Jaso is LESS THAN useless against a LHP.

Jaso really isn't a good defensive option either. So it's a wash there.

I do believe Zunino will be up this year or the next .... they'll prolly sign Kelly Shoppach or some shit for now.

Maybe they say fuck Jason Bay now and put Morse in the shortened Left Field where he will do the least amount of damage. Shit we had Mike Carp penned as our starting OF'er last season.

Morse / Ibanez platoon in LF, though I guess Morse hits RHP's pretty well. Good god that defense!
 
F

Friggz

Member
Sanjuro said:
lol

He is currently rehabbing in a drunk tank, not going to be ready for this season in all likelihood.
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hes supposed to be back by may or early june. hes also down about 20 pounds and by all reports is pretty ripped.

Just gotta hope the shoulder holds up.
 
B

bluemax

Banned
Using batting average wont win you any arguments.

Jaso is more valuable when you consider age, salary, position and handedness.

Mike Morse is one of the least durable players in baseball.

The Mariners bench is a hot mess now;

Wells RF/LF
Bay RF
Andino SS/2B
Smoak 1B DH

And now you have no catcher and you back up to injury prone Morse and Gutierrez is old as dirt Jason Bay. I guess Saunders takes over in CF when Guti goes down but still. God save the Mariners if Kyle Seager gets hurt.

Fuck, I totally spaced on Ibanez. This roster is putrid.
 
C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
Normally, I'm one of those who will defend jack z's decisions, but I think he's reached the point of desperation, aka the "Moore".

I think it might be time for Seattle's FO to move in a different direction.

Matt Harrison just got a 5/55 extension.
 
R

rando14

Member
bluemax said:
Using batting average wont win you any arguments.

Jaso is more valuable when you consider age, salary, position and handedness.

Mike Morse is one of the least durable players in baseball.

The Mariners bench is a hot mess now;

Wells RF/LF
Bay RF
Andino SS/2B
Smoak 1B DH

And now you have no catcher and you back up to injury prone Morse and Gutierrez is old as dirt Jason Bay. I guess Saunders takes over in CF when Guti goes down but still. God save the Mariners if Kyle Seager gets hurt.

Fuck, I totally spaced on Ibanez. This roster is putrid.
Click to expand...

At the end of the day, at least I can stop myself from crying into the pillow knowing we won't be at the bottom of the AL West :')
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
bluemax said:
Using batting average wont win you any arguments.
Click to expand...

batting .228 won't get you many PA also..

Regardless what people think of BA .216 to .228 is pretty bad.. He does draw a decent amount of walks.
 
M

Macattk15

Member
bluemax said:
Using batting average wont win you any arguments.

Jaso is more valuable when you consider age, salary, position and handedness.

Mike Morse is one of the least durable players in baseball.

The Mariners bench is a hot mess now;

Wells RF/LF
Bay RF
Andino SS/2B
Smoak 1B DH

And now you have no catcher and you back up to injury prone Morse and Gutierrez is old as dirt Jason Bay. I guess Saunders takes over in CF when Guti goes down but still. God save the Mariners if Kyle Seager gets hurt.

Fuck, I totally spaced on Ibanez. This roster is putrid.
Click to expand...

Defensively I noticed no difference between Montero and Jaso catching last season.

Don't act like Jaso was a good defensive player cause he was not.

Both have noodle arms. Both can't catch the ball.
 
F

Friggz

Member
Macattk15 said:
Defensively I noticed no difference between Montero and Jaso catching last season.

Don't act like Jaso was a good defensive player cause he was not.

Both have noodle arms. Both can't catch the ball.
Click to expand...

montero has a cannon. its his receiving and releasing that arent there.
 
B

bluemax

Banned
Macattk15 said:
Defensively I noticed no difference between Montero and Jaso catching last season.

Don't act like Jaso was a good defensive player cause he was not.

Both have noodle arms. Both can't catch the ball.
Click to expand...

I am a poor judge of catcher defense so I can't really comment on that. But we went from having a catcher who was above average offensively and maybe below average defensively to having an outfielder who is maybe average offensively and well below average defensively.

Jaso is also more durable, younger and cost controlled for several more years. Morse will be a free agent after this season.

Now the Mariners have no starting catcher, no back up catcher and a bench with two old guys whose best position is DH.

How did this trade make the Mariners better?
 
M

Macattk15

Member
bluemax said:
I am a poor judge of catcher defense so I can't really comment on that. But we went from having a catcher who was above average offensively and maybe below average defensively to having an outfielder who is maybe average offensively and well below average defensively.

Jaso is also more durable, younger and cost controlled for several more years. Morse will be a free agent after this season.

Now the Mariners have no starting catcher, no back up catcher and a bench with two old guys whose best position is DH.

How did this trade make the Mariners better?
Click to expand...

Because a back-up catcher isn't all that hard to replace. Like I said ... they'll prolly pick up Kelly Shoppach or Kottaras who was just DFA'ed by the A's.

Jaso had one GOOD offensive year. Who knows if last year was an outlier or the true thing.

Morse is a legit power hitter.

http://www.hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2012_2792&type=hitter
 
T

Talon

Member
Mr. Enigma said:
Yankees and Phil Hughes have avoided arbitration. Hughes will make $7.15 million in 2013.
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american-eagle-and-flag-ii.jpg
 
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