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MMA-GAF |OT5| Father Time Is Undefeated

Chamber

love on your sleeve
This still blows my mind more than GSP's recent revelation. I hope that in a decade guys like Anderson Silva, GSP and Jon Jones represent the bottom-of-the-barrel in terms of MMA skillsets. The sport is still young, and it's arguable that everyone's favorites in the mid-2000's would have a much harder time with today's roster.

Absolutely. The top tier fighters don't even strike me as being particularly impressive so it makes the cans largely unwatchable for me and why I laugh when people tell me how excited I should be to watch a fucking Matt Brown fight. The Silva/Weidman fight was an eye opener for me.


Combine this with the UFC 171 prelims moving from FS1 to FS2/Fight Pass and it doesn't paint a pretty picture for Uncle Dana.
 
Finally finished my nonstop True Detective viewing.
Really though how could that dude have such a huge compound, look so creepy, work at schools around kids and never get caught after all those years, even with the US Senator being his daddy or whatever.

And yeah it looks like Fox isn't very happy with Uncle Dana diluting his product either. It's times like in that scrum where I respect how forthcoming he is with stuff like this actually. He probably didn't realize in the heat of the moment that he was basically admitting to Fox not wanting more of his product, but that's what happens when he shoots from the hip.
 
Shit like this is why I turned #TeamNegative on MMA. For a sport trying to sell itself as the best fighters in the world competing with one another, Hendricks and his team are the first people who thought, "Hey, why not punch this dude in the gut to stop the takedown?!" Brilliant! And the person that I've always considered the best in the sport, was completely flustered by such a simple strategy.

idXDeUO4L3Ia9.png
GSP oversimplified the shit of it there though, there was obviously a lot more that went into it than just "punch him in the gut".

And yeah Sato, Hendricks won and GSP knows it, why do you think he's fighting Lawler for the title?

Also cumbr, if MMA fighters are so bad why can't Floyd stop the double leg? They have to consider a much more diverse assortment of attacks to defend which is why at times it can give off the appearance of not being as refined as something more narrow in its scope like boxing. Having watched MMA for a considerable amount of time you should understand this.
 

Gr1mLock

Passing metallic gas
I don't get why is it when these guys supposedly train with champion boxers, kickboxers, etc, you name it, they don't get told their shit sucks.

Probably because they do improve in a controlled environment..ie in sparring with headgear and 3 pound pillows strapped to their hands. The second a wrestler gets tagged he will shoot for a single 9 out of 10 times. To me the real issue is just how utterly clueless some dudes are. They can't read their opponent's tendencies, have zero observational skills or fight IQ. They pay no attention to footwork or the fact that the guy theyre fighting does nothing but throws one two's and is always off balance because he's flatfooted. Hell every wrestler on wrestler match that turns into a 'kickboxing' exhibition shows that. Best part is that their corners are fucking clueless as well 'ooh youre doing great random ultimate guy keep doing it' when in reality they look like that poor fish at the end of faith no more's epic video.

Its the reason why a wrestler from NY with just a basic eye for timing sent the 'p4p' best striker in the known universe straight to odin's doorstep and then gave him his leg for christmas. Its the reason why guys like aldo and pettis smack these dudes around. Same reason why Bang turned team hobbit around. He's teaching them how read and react and how to position themselves. Not just a 'here's a one two overhand right' good luck. And look how well that has worked out for a bunch of dudes.
 
Its the reason why a wrestler from NY with just a basic eye for timing sent the 'p4p' best striker in the known universe straight to odin's doorstep and then gave him his leg for christmas. Its the reason why guys like aldo and pettis smack these dudes around. Same reason why Bang turned team hobbit around. He's teaching them how read and react and how to position themselves. Not just a 'here's a one two overhand right' good luck. And look how well that has worked out for a bunch of dudes.
Anderson was so preoccupied with Weidman's takedown game that it opened up the striking opportunities. That doesn't mean Anderson is a shitty striker, just that the holes in his game don't work well vs Weidman. Styles make fights, it's a rock/scissors/paper kind of thing.
 
I thought Gr1m was more saying that Silva's never had to deal with a guy who can read him properly and adjust, which is why he was caught in the first fight and why he didn't dominate the second fight either. Basically echoing GSP's statement about Hendricks.
 
I thought Gr1m was more saying that Silva's never had to deal with a guy who can read him properly and adjust, which is why he was caught in the first fight and why he didn't dominate the second fight either. Basically echoing GSP's statement about Hendricks.
And what I'm saying is that when a fighter poses a legitimate takedown threat to Anderson that in itself makes him readable.

We saw it in both Sonnen fights too, until he decided to attempt a Jon Jones impression. Let's not forget that Chael rocked him with one of the most telegraphed punches ever.
 

Gr1mLock

Passing metallic gas
And what I'm saying is that when a fighter poses a legitimate takedown threat to Anderson that in itself makes him readable.

We saw it in both Sonnen fights too, until he decided to attempt a Jon Jones impression.

He didnt look all that threatened by takedowns when he was shucking and jiving and then got blapped. Point being even someone who was clearly ahead of the game as much as he was got beaten by a rudimentary setup and his own bad footwork.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
Probably because they do improve in a controlled environment..ie in sparring with headgear and 3 pound pillows strapped to their hands. The second a wrestler gets tagged he will shoot for a single 9 out of 10 times. To me the real issue is just how utterly clueless some dudes are. They can't read their opponent's tendencies, have zero observational skills or fight IQ. They pay no attention to footwork or the fact that the guy theyre fighting does nothing but throws one two's and is always off balance because he's flatfooted. Hell every wrestler on wrestler match that turns into a 'kickboxing' exhibition shows that. Best part is that their corners are fucking clueless as well 'ooh youre doing great random ultimate guy keep doing it' when in reality they look like that poor fish at the end of faith no more's epic video.

Its the reason why a wrestler from NY with just a basic eye for timing sent the 'p4p' best striker in the known universe straight to odin's doorstep and then gave him his leg for christmas. Its the reason why guys like aldo and pettis smack these dudes around. Same reason why Bang turned team hobbit around. He's teaching them how read and react and how to position themselves. Not just a 'here's a one two overhand right' good luck. And look how well that has worked out for a bunch of dudes.
Yep. Whenever someone calls Bones the P4P best I wonder if they've actually seen him strike. Compared with the lighter weight champs he looks a league behind.
 
And what I'm saying is that when a fighter poses a legitimate takedown threat to Anderson that in itself makes him readable.

We saw it in both Sonnen fights too, until he decided to attempt a Jon Jones impression. Let's not forget that Chael rocked him with one of the most telegraphed punches ever.

I can see the logic there but I personally think that it's more about Silva being in his opponents heads making them doubt themselves. Chael went into the first one with a go for broke attitude and in the second just straight up lost his head. With Weidman.. I honestly feel like he's just not intimidated by anyone. I mean I don't want to say he's too stupid to be scared... maybe he doesn't care enough about getting hurt or losing to be properly concerned...?


Yep. Whenever someone calls Bones the P4P best I wonder if they've actually seen him strike. Compared with the lighter weight champs he looks a league behind.

Of all the criticisms that people throw at Jones, this one is the most viable. For having the reach advantage he has over most of his opponents and his obvious athleticism.. he seems to do zero legitimate striking training.
 
When all Jones needs to do vs most guys is stick his fingers in front of their faces to stop them from getting close enough to strike and kick them in the upper shin to hyperextend their legs, there isn't much incentive to employ traditional striking technique.
 

Gr1mLock

Passing metallic gas
When all Jones needs to do vs most guys is stick his fingers in front of their faces to stop them from getting close enough to strike and kick them in the upper shin to hyperextend their legs, there isn't much incentive to employ traditional striking technique.

Complexities of the sport play into it obviously. The first dude even close to matching his physicality took his soul. Gus at least does what 99 percent of mma fighters dont. Uppercut.

1-1-1.gif


The knee definitely buzzed him but those short uppercuts were the end. Having said that i still strongly dislike his stance. He moves well but keep your hands up. Just cause you can take a punch doesnt mean you should
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
When all Jones needs to do vs most guys is stick his fingers in front of their faces to stop them from getting close enough to strike and kick them in the upper shin to hyperextend their legs, there isn't much incentive to employ traditional striking technique.
People talk a lot about kicks and takedowns/clinches changing the striking in MMA, but the ultimate has its own specific wrinkles: the wide open gloves + fighting in a large area with no real corners. I think they're working on the former but I'm not sure they're going to do anything about the latter, too much value put in the octagon.
 
Complexities of the sport play into it obviously. The first dude even close to matching his physicality took his soul. Gus at least does what 99 percent of mma fighters dont. Uppercut.

1-1-1.gif


The knee definitely buzzed him but those short uppercuts were the end. Having said that i still strongly dislike his stance. He moves well but keep your hands up. Just cause you can take a punch doesnt mean you should
I've seen lots of MMA fighters do uppercuts, the most well known ones coming from JDS and Paulo Thiago.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Look at Heel's favorite bearded wrassler about the main event the biggest sports entertainment extravaganza of the year.
ibksm4NbxETUN5.png
 
Look at Heel's favorite bearded wrassler about the main event the biggest sports entertainment extravaganza of the year.
ibksm4NbxETUN5.png
What a mark.

Paul Levesque is winning the match vs DBry and then winning the WWEWHC.

DBry is going to get buried harder than he did when he opened Mania in Miami and then for the rest of the show it'll be dueling chants, "Daniel Bry-an CM PUNK" ad nauseum.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
What a mark.

Paul Levesque is winning the match vs DBry and then winning the WWEWHC.

DBry is going to get buried harder than he did when he opened Mania in Miami and then for the rest of the show it'll be dueling chants, "Daniel Bry-an CM PUNK" ad nauseum.

No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No!
 
Probably because they do improve in a controlled environment..ie in sparring with headgear and 3 pound pillows strapped to their hands. The second a wrestler gets tagged he will shoot for a single 9 out of 10 times. To me the real issue is just how utterly clueless some dudes are. They can't read their opponent's tendencies, have zero observational skills or fight IQ. They pay no attention to footwork or the fact that the guy theyre fighting does nothing but throws one two's and is always off balance because he's flatfooted. Hell every wrestler on wrestler match that turns into a 'kickboxing' exhibition shows that. Best part is that their corners are fucking clueless as well 'ooh youre doing great random ultimate guy keep doing it' when in reality they look like that poor fish at the end of faith no more's epic video.

Its the reason why a wrestler from NY with just a basic eye for timing sent the 'p4p' best striker in the known universe straight to odin's doorstep and then gave him his leg for christmas. Its the reason why guys like aldo and pettis smack these dudes around. Same reason why Bang turned team hobbit around. He's teaching them how read and react and how to position themselves. Not just a 'here's a one two overhand right' good luck. And look how well that has worked out for a bunch of dudes.

ive done boxing training for a couple of years with a pro boxer and watching that guy hit the pads is a thing of beauty. Speed, power, head movement, footwork....its all there. I love MMA but totally agree, the level of striking is pathetic compared to boxing. You rarely see more than a 2 punch combo in MMA unless its on a staggered opponent who isnt defending and the puncher is trying to finish him off. Barely any body shots are ever thrown. Almost every punch is a haymaker being thrown as sloppily as possible in the hope of a flash KO. Would i like to take a punch from Gus/Jones etc? Fuck no, but will we ever see striking of this calibre in the ultimate? Hell no
 

bone_and_sinew

breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
-Gus is a straight up Viking. Dude could easily be fucking shit up with Ragnar Lodbrok on the History Channel.

-Remy Bonjasky should've retired after his detached retina. Dude was nothing but a warm body to a shot Cro Cop.

-Tremendous display of budo by Davit Kiria! He's not really the best 155 kickboxer in the world. He looks more Matt Serra than the next big thing. But he can crushed the dude who recycled Petro and Robin Van Roosmalen. Good for him.

-Not sure what to make of True Detective's ending. I liked it but I didn't love it and there's other avenues they could've gone through. Amazing amazing series nonetheless and the ending did nothing to detract from the overall experience.

-I just picked up Dark Souls 2 (a Black Armor edition too!). I got invited to dinner by a cousin from out of town because he wants to introduce me to his gf's family and his gf. I passed because I'd rather kill and be killed by things that go bump in the dark than make small talk with a bunch of old strangers.
 

Gr1mLock

Passing metallic gas
-Gus is a straight up Viking. Dude could easily be fucking shit up with Ragnar Lodbrok on the History Channel.

-Remy Bonjasky should've retired after his detached retina. Dude was nothing but a warm body to a shot Cro Cop.

-Tremendous display of budo by Davit Kiria! He's not really the best 155 kickboxer in the world. He looks more Matt Serra than the next big thing. But he can crushed the dude who recycled Petro and Robin Van Roosmalen. Good for him.

-Not sure what to make of True Detective's ending. I liked it but I didn't love it and there's other avenues they could've gone through. Amazing amazing series nonetheless and the ending did nothing to detract from the overall experience.

-I just picked up Dark Souls 2 (a Black Armor edition too!). I got invited to dinner by a cousin from out of town because he wants to introduce me to his gf's family and his gf. I passed because I'd rather kill and be killed by things that go bump in the dark than make small talk with a bunch of old strangers.

Over here priest. I see your bullet points. Why dont you take that mask off and tell me how you really feel? Hemmy and CC should have both gracefully bowed out a decade ago. TR finale? Season two bitch.
 

Gr1mLock

Passing metallic gas
ive done boxing training for a couple of years with a pro boxer and watching that guy hit the pads is a thing of beauty. Speed, power, head movement, footwork....its all there. I love MMA but totally agree, the level of striking is pathetic compared to boxing. You rarely see more than a 2 punch combo in MMA unless its on a staggered opponent who isnt defending and the puncher is trying to finish him off. Barely any body shots are ever thrown. Almost every punch is a haymaker being thrown as sloppily as possible in the hope of a flash KO. Would i like to take a punch from Gus/Jones etc? Fuck no, but will we ever see striking of this calibre in the ultimate? Hell no

Dude that benchmark is a bit too high for boxers much less clueless mma fighters. Those gentlemen were monsters.
 
ive done boxing training for a couple of years with a pro boxer and watching that guy hit the pads is a thing of beauty. Speed, power, head movement, footwork....its all there. I love MMA but totally agree, the level of striking is pathetic compared to boxing. You rarely see more than a 2 punch combo in MMA unless its on a staggered opponent who isnt defending and the puncher is trying to finish him off. Barely any body shots are ever thrown. Almost every punch is a haymaker being thrown as sloppily as possible in the hope of a flash KO. Would i like to take a punch from Gus/Jones etc? Fuck no, but will we ever see striking of this calibre in the ultimate? Hell no
Boxing technique doesn't work too well in MMA with gloves that are much smaller and can't be used to block as easily and smaller hands that can equally get through small holes. It's much easier to break your hands. There's also stuff like spinning backfists and elbows, kicks and takedowns to account for. Anyone who overcommits with their strikes like these guys do get clinched up and/or taken down. Also, half those punches that do connect in boxing wouldn't connect in MMA due to smaller gloves. There are so many more variables at play in MMA that you can't just simply say that MMA fighters have far worse striking because they're all bums who don't know what they're doing. The reality of it is much more nuanced than that. Try Floyd's shoulder roll defense in MMA and watch how quickly you get KO'd.
 
ive done boxing training for a couple of years with a pro boxer and watching that guy hit the pads is a thing of beauty. Speed, power, head movement, footwork....its all there. I love MMA but totally agree, the level of striking is pathetic compared to boxing. You rarely see more than a 2 punch combo in MMA unless its on a staggered opponent who isnt defending and the puncher is trying to finish him off. Barely any body shots are ever thrown. Almost every punch is a haymaker being thrown as sloppily as possible in the hope of a flash KO. Would i like to take a punch from Gus/Jones etc? Fuck no, but will we ever see striking of this calibre in the ultimate? Hell no

A striker has a different conditioned body than a grappler (BJJ/wrestler). Grapplers doesnt seem to know how to loosen up when striking and thats why we will never see a truly great boxer in there.

The maximum we have been treated over the years in terms of boxing was Chuck, Santos, Rumble Johnson and Pettis, Aldo and maybe Belfort and that level seems to be enough in MMA.

Will we ever see a 3 punch right uppercut left right KO? No!

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