• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

MMA |OT3| When you lose you're a can, when you win you're unstoppable.

Anderson is too big and accurate for our flatfooted pitter patterer. Diaz won't close the distance with Andy's kicks. Don't get me wrong, I will be excited to see it, but I predict it will be the first time Nick gets legit ko'ed in the first.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Nick has nothing for da Silver. Bad matchup for him, just wait around for GSP since GSP still wants to fight you.
 

dream

Member
I wrote a few more essays...

Tito Ortiz became the eighth person inducted into the UFC Hall of Fame on 7/7, just hours before his final match.

His induction took place as part of the UFC Fan Expo at the Mandalay Bay Convention Center in Las Vegas. Ortiz, 37, who finished his career with a 17-11-1 record, joined a select group of Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, Mark Coleman, Matt Hughes, Charles “Mask” Lewis (the founder of Tapout, who died in a 2009 auto accident) and Chuck Liddell. The Hall of Fame is housed as such at the TUF Gym in Las Vegas.

Ortiz, who turned 37 in January, continued to fight after one major surgery after another including a fused neck and a fused back. He was really never the same after 2003, when bulging discs in his back hampered his takedown game. He had been able to use takedowns and ground and pound to become UFC’s biggest star during most of the period from 1999 to 2003. He did two matches, one in 2002 and another in 2003, with Ken Shamrock and Chuck Liddell that did 150,000 and 105,000 buys respectively. While those numbers sound paltry by today’s standards, they were anything but, being able to pull those numbers with no television and no mainstream media past a few interviews on low rated FSN show “The Best Damn Sports Show Period.”

He remained a huge draw until 2006, when he earned $5.6 million in four matches. As the company grew that year, Ortiz set three PPV records. He first did 425,000 buys for his first match with Forrest Griffin. He then did 775,000 buys, blowing away previous records, for his second match with Ken Shamrock. A third and final match with Ken Shamrock set what was then the all-time record (and in some demographic categories is even today still a record).

This all led to what was UFC’s crowning achievement of that era, the Liddell vs. Ortiz match on December 30, 2006, that did a $5,397,300 gate and 1,050,000 PPV buys, both blowing away all previous records. The gate record stood until UFC 100 (and many have it as the listed American record standing until this past weekend because they don’t include UFC 100 closed-circuit locations in the gate).

While he only won one match since that time, most of his matches were against top level foes and he remained a major star and whether the fight was good or bad, and no matter how many times he lost, people always reacted to him as a major star. He ended his career with the most matches in UFC history (27), tying for fifth on the all-time list for most wins (15, behind Hughes, Georges St. Pierre, Liddell and Couture). His five title defenses from 2000 to 2003 is tied for third, with Hughes, behind only GSP and Anderson Silva. While the competition wasn’t as deep or tough, it’s still a strong feat in a sport with so many ways to lose. When he coached season three of The Ultimate Fighter, against Ken Shamrock, it was the second highest rated season in history.

He had his ups and downs, often if not generally booed, with people at times getting tired of his consistently talking about crippling injuries after matches, after proclaiming he was 100% healthy and would be the old Tito Ortiz 24 hours earlier. He had his run-ins with management, and even after announcing him for the Hall of Fame, Dana White knocked him saying that nobody did more to hurt the company. He had previous “last matches,” most notably a 2008 loss to Lyoto Machida which was the end of his contract and White vowed he wouldn’t bring him back. But 18 months later, Lorenzo Fertitta and Ortiz worked out a big money deal for him to return, because whether he won or lost, he was able to pull decent PPV numbers and the company was always in need of a main event.

His at the time record setting title run came after his loss to Frank Shamrock on September 24, 1999, in Lake Charles, LA, in what at the time was generally considered the greatst match up to that point in time in UFC history, and still remembered as a classic. At that point in time, the title was called the middleweight title with a 200-pound limit. After Shamrock retired, the weight limit was moved to 205, largely to benefit Ortiz who was 217-222 pounds as his real weight so it wasn’t as difficult a cut that 200 was. The middleweight, then light heavyweight title was UFC’s marquee title from 1997, when Shamrock arrived in the company, until 2008, when Brock Lesnar beat Randy Couture and made the heavyweight title into the marquee belt.

When Shamrock left UFC, Ortiz beat Wanderlei Silva on April 14, 2000 in Tokyo, at Yoyogi Gym. Ortiz won the decision, using his wrestling, to take the vacant title, called light heavyweight for the first time. He retained it on December 16, 2000, at Differ Ariake in Tokyo, stopping a much smaller Yuki Kondo in just 1:51. It’s amazing to think that the biggest UFC title belt was defended at Differ Ariake before 1,414 fans. He followed with a :30 win over Evan Tanner and another first round finish, stopping Elvis Sinosic in 3:32.

Next was a win over Vladimir Matyushenko on UFC’s first match back on national PPV after Zuffa purchased the company. Matyushenko was a late replacement for an injured Vitor Belfort. While the five round decision was boring, ending one of the worst big shows in company history, Ortiz was able to take down and control the much higher-credentialed wrestler, showing the world that MMA wrestling is different from regular wrestling.

While Ortiz was primarily a takedown and ground and pound guy, when it came to competitive wrestling, he was a California state Junior college champion, but he ended up second string at Cal State Bakersfield. Matyushenko, on the other hand, was a national champion in the Soviet Union in the 90s before moving to the U.S. in 1996. Ortiz then retained his title beating Ken Shamrock, before meeting a better MMA wrestler in Couture, who dominated him for five rounds to win a decision and end his title reign on September 26, 2003. Couture only got the shot because Ortiz had kept refusing to give Liddell a shot, which led to heat with management when he took a movie role after turning down the Liddell fight. The company created an interim title, where Couture was moved down from heavyweight to give a guy with a name and credentials that Liddell was expected to knock out, so Liddell could get the belt. Instead, Couture beat Liddell, and then with Liddell out of the picture, Ortiz immediately agreed to come back and face the 40-year-old. But Couture ended his title reign and it wasn’t until the 2006 fight with Liddell, who had beaten Couture twice, that he got another shot.

“The story of what went on with Tito Ortiz is really part of the history that helped build this thing to what it is today,” said former enemy Dana White, when presenting Ortiz with his plaque. “All the big fights (in the 1999 to 2006 period), Tito was involved.”

*****************************************************************
The controversy over whether Frank Shamrock belongs in the UFC Hall of Fame grew late last month after Shamrock appeared on MMA Uncensored.

Shamrock was asked about it, acted like he really didn’t care, but mentioned that his wife did. This led to a response by Dana White which, like so much White does, only wound up making the controversy bigger.

Shamrock, on the 6/28 show, said, “Well honestly, I don’t really care, but my wife was pretty pissed that I wasn’t in the Hall of Fame. I don’t care. I think it’s awesome that Tito’s in. He deserves to be in there. I believe I should be in the Hall of Fame but it ain’t my Hall of Fame. If they want to put me in, that’s great. It’s not gonna keep me up at night.

Here’s my thing, I did everything I could for the sport, from speaking to the commissions to presenting in front of cable companies, anything and everything, I was hired to go do it. I was a great spokesman, and I believe in this sport. If they wanna put me in or not, it’s totally up to them.”

When asked if he believed he wasn’t in over personal issues with Dana White, he said, “It’s definitely personal between Dana and I. To further that, I’ve done everything I can possibly do for this sport. I hope that would include UFC. You know, Dana and I don’t get along. I think he’s a total douchebag and a bully. I just got no breath for him.”

Later, when asked if he and White were to meet in a dark alley with no cameras or anyone around and there would be no repercussions, what he’d do, Shamrock said that he taught Dana fighting (about ten years ago, Shamrock did teach private lessons on ground fighting to White and Lorenzo Fertitta when they were on good terms and Shamrock announced for them, before a split up took place when Shamrock wouldn’t agree to an exclusive contract) and knows his level and indicated he’d relish the chance. Well, I guess that sealed the deal.

Keep in mind Shamrock called White those names while he still works for the company, as he’s an announcer for Strikeforce. He must have a pretty ironclad contract because you know UFC doesn’t want him there and I can’t imagine the contract getting renewed. If you wonder about the frustration between White and Showtime over production, White couldn’t have been happy Shamrock is still there. Whether that’s even a small part of the reason White has washed his hands of Strikeforce and Showtime, nobody has said, but it’s hard to believe it’s not either a small part or representative of the big part–that White can’t change what he thinks should be changed.

White was then asked in a Sirius radio interview about Shamrock being in the Hall of Fame.

“Frank Shamrock’s always talking smack. I don’t know what’s worse, Frank Shamrock talking smack like he should be in the Hall of Fame or Spike TV having him on . We have the biggest fight of the year coming up and they have Frank Shamrock on there, the most irrelevant dude on the planet.

Here’s the thing about the UFC Hall of Fame. In all honesty, the UFC Hall of Fame is this, these are guys that we have been inducting that have done a lot of good for the sport since we have taken over. You know what I mean? Here’s a guy, Frank Shamrock, Frank Shamrock hasn’t done anything for the new UFC. And when I say the new UFC, I mean the regulated, since it’s been regulated, since it’s been back on pay-per-view, mainstream television, all the things that have been done over the past 12 years, the guys who have been inducted have helped us get to where we are. Frank Shamrock isn’t one of those guys.

Most of the guys in MMA, the fighters and stuff, don’t like Frank Shamrock. He came out one time he was on the Jimmy Fallon show and he was talking about this anti-bullying thing, and Mike Swick came out on Twitter and said, `You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. Frank Shamrock, when I was coming up in MMA, there wasn’t a bigger bully on Earth than Frank Shamrock. Frank Shamrock’s the biggest bully I’ve ever met in my entire life and I’d love to beat his ass.’”

If you haven’t figured it out, in 2013, the big feud in MMA is going to be UFC vs. Bellator & Spike TV. I expect a strong effort by UFC to sign every marketable Bellator fighter as soon as their deals are up, particularly if anyone good has a deal up before the end of this year.

If the idea is to be the friends and family Hall of Fame, like the WWE Hall of Fame, with the same respectability, then there’s no need to induct Shamrock. If they want it to be regarded as a real Hall of Fame, then the decision would go the other way.

If UFC wants to have this public thing that nothing before 2001 existed, that’s fine too. Vince McMahon for years did the same thing, that nothing before 1984 existed. He got older and changed his tune, particularly when there were ways to make money with nostalgia, and then he embraced it. However, Mark Coleman, Royce Gracie, Dan Severn and Ken Shamrock are all in the UFC Hall of Fame. Ken Shamrock, who probably wouldn’t be put in now and may even be taken out if it wouldn’t cause an outcry given he sued UFC and lost, did draw some huge numbers for the Zuffa company for his fights with Ortiz, even though he was past his prime as a fighter and only won once under the Zuffa banner. Gracie also fought once, losing to Matt Hughes, which was also a huge fight. But even though they both lost handily, Gracie and Shamrock, the first two inducted, were the building blocks of UFC, and their comebacks with Zuffa did huge business and helped take Zuffa up several notches in 2006, the year of its greatest growth.

With Coleman, there is no such argument. Coleman fought a few times for Zuffa, long past his prime, and those fights were after his induction. The decision was made to induct Coleman first, and then he tried to lobby to get a job, and they saw a match with Brock Lesnar that would probably result in Lesnar scoring a strong win over a once big name that would elevate him, like Ortiz and Hughes became significantly bigger draws a few years earlier.

Coleman’s induction had to be based on a period from July 1996 to February 1997–eight months, because when he was inducted, all six of his UFC wins came during an eight month period. His UFC record was 6-3 and he had nothing to do with the Zuffa years.

Severn also never fought for Zuffa.

In addition, every Frank Shamrock fight in UFC but one (the fight he won the middleweight, now light heavyweight title, which was in Yokohama, Japan) was regulated by an athletic commission.

His credentials are this, he’s 5-0 in competition, but all five fights were title fights, all won via stoppage, all in different ways, and he gave up considerable size in all but one of those fights, including 25 pounds to Ortiz. His four submissions in title matches is still the company record. He’s the only person in history to win two title matches in less than 30 seconds. He also essentially unified the two existing major under-200 pound titles when he beat Extreme champion Igor Zinoviev in 22 seconds. On the flip side, it was five fights (really six, because you have to include the Enson Inoue fight in Shooto since that was put together to be the fight to determine who would get the title shot with Kevin Jackson), and only two years. But Royce Gracie fought lesser opponents (and some were considerably bigger than he was as well) over a time frame shorter than Shamrock and he’s in. When Zuffa purchased the company Shamrock was generally considered the best fighter in UFC history, and his match with Ortiz was considered the best fight in history.

I could discredit him saying too short a time frame, or that he was given the chance to pick John Lober (although Lober beat Shamrock in his first real MMA rules match) and Jeremy Horn as his opponents, but he still fought Ortiz.

Shamrock was arguably the most vocal outsider, with Elite XC, the IFL (as a coach) and Strikeforce, and ever since he was on the other side of the fence, as the face of the Strikeforce brand, he was critical of White. Then they all went down. Zuffa bought Strikeforce. Shamrock did speak to cable companies and athletic commissions all the time, and for years, Shamrock, John McCarthy (who also should be in the UFC Hall of Fame since he was there from the second show and a very important part of the formative years of the sport) and Jeff Blatnick were the company’s go-to guys in those situations. Knocking him for never doing anything in that regard is bogus, although I don’t know if he did much if anything working directly for Zuffa. Much of his stuff in that regard, and there was a lot, was either working for the SEG-owned UFC and later working with Scott Coker, Showtime and Strikeforce.

He may not have done anything for Zuffa after refusing to sign the exclusive contract they offered him early on to be an announcer, but that was a business move and the right one for him because he made a lot of money as an outsider and it was his ability to market fights that made Strikeforce a viable alternative. Should he be ranked ahead of Randy Couture or Chuck Liddell. No. Should he be ahead of Mark Coleman, when it comes to all-around contributions to the sport. Absolutely.

Plus, it’s certainly been discussed about Wanderlei Silva ending up in the UFC Hall of Fame, and in my mind, Silva is a stronger MMA Hall of Famer than Shamrock, an absolute first ballot guy. But if the criteria is only what have you done for us, as in Zuffa’s version of UFC and the other stuff doesn’t count, then you’re talking about a fighter with a 2-6 record with only one finish.

White later did another interview with MMA Junkie saying he thought Pat Miletich was Hall of Fame worthy, but not Shamrock. He cited that Miletich was a champion after Zuffa bought the company and also coached a number of top stars including champions Tim Sylvia and Matt Hughes. I see Miletich as someone you could consider, and I’d lean toward him. His big credential is that the camp he put together in Davenport, IA, produced early UFC champions Jens Pulver, Matt Hughes and Tim Sylvia, as well as himself. But if you were around when Miletich was fighting, he was always criticized for having boring fights. He was lucky to beat Townsend Saunders in a fight that could have been judged either way to get a shot at the title. He won title by holding Mikey Burnett’s trunks to neutralize him and win a split decision in a fight where nobody did anything that also could have gone either way, and then never gave Burnett a rematch (which was probably more due to the UFC matchmaker at the time, John Peretti, being tight with the Miletich camp and hating the Ken Shamrock camp, but that was all in the pre-Zuffa era) when the rule was added after that fight where holding your opponents’ trunks became illegal.

Miletich lost three non-title matches as champion (UFC didn’t have exclusive contracts with its fighters at the time), essentially rendering the value of the belt as a real world title as something of a joke at the time. Having said that, I’d agree with him at the end of the day on Miletich just because I think the pioneers always get a break in Hall of Fames and Miletich was the first 170 pound champion and his gym was the dominant one in its day. But Shamrock was the first under-200 champion, and was the star of the promotion and the sport for a few years, albeit the worst years of UFC because they had almost no exposure at the time.



The UFC 149 prelims on 7/21 did 1 million viewers. Of the eight sets of prelims on FX, this was in sixth place. Not a surprise given that the level of interest in the PPV show was at a lower than usual level. It’s down from the 1.8 million viewers on the 7/7 show. It should be noted that the actual viewer numbers are slightly higher than what we get because Fox Deportes also runs the shows in Spanish.



The Singapore-based One Fighting Championship which is trying to be the main promotion in Asia based on their multi-year TV deal with ESPN Asia, announced several matches with name fighters for its 8/31 show in Quezon City, Philippines. The top matches are Dream bantamweight champion Bibiano Fernandes vs. Gustavo Falciroli (an Australian bantamweight champion), Shinya Aoki vs. Eduardo Folayang, Andre Arlovski vs. Soa Palelei and Jens Pulver vs. Eric Kelly.



The all-women’s Invicta Fighting Championship has its second show on 7/28 in Kansas City at Memorial Hall. The show is headlined by U.S. Olympic silver medal winning wrestler Sara McMann vs. Shayna Baszler. Also, Alexis Davis (coming off her loss in a great fight with Sarah Kaufman that was to determine the top contender in Strikeforce) vs. Hitomi Akano and Liz Carmouche vs. Kaitlin Young. Most of the top card are women who have previously fought on Showtime or CBS against name fighters like Gina Carano, Cris Cyborg, Marloes Coenen, etc. The show will stream live and free starting at 7 p.m. Eastern at InvictaFC.com.


Eddie Alvarez, the company’s biggest star, is expected to take a fight on 10/15, which would be the final fight of his contract. This is going to be a big one, given that Bellator goes to Spike in January, and UFC will guaranteed make a huge play for him, as they did with Hector Lombard. It’s going to be very difficult for Bellator to be a hit on Spike in the first place because they are a distant No. 2 or No. 3 (depending on whether people perceive Strikeforce as a separate company) in a market place where the average fan would have a difficult time keeping up with No. 1. But if they lose their top stars to UFC once contracts are up, in a business about stars, that’s going to kill any chance of garnering significant momentum. We’re long past the idea of putting MMA fights on television is a novelty a lot of people will watch. While some would blame the strict adherence to the tournament system, as once Alvarez lost to Michael Chandler, it would have been impossible for him to get a return match for the title without fighting three times in three months, and at his level, fighters for the most part don’t want to do that. But at the end of the day, it’s who puts the most money in the contract offer. Right now Viacom’s vision with Bellator looks closer to Sinclair’s with ROH, as opposed to the late 90s Turner with WCW.



Gilbert Melendez vs. Pat Healy for the Strikeforce lightweight title was officially announced as the main event of the 9/29 Showtime event from the Power Balance Pavilion in Sacramento. White announced Daniel Cormier vs. Frank Mir as the semifinal on the show, which will be the first time a major UFC name has been sent to a Strikeforce show. Tim Sylvia was at first tabbed to be Cormier’s opponent, but White wasn’t down with that one. Unless Cormier has a mental lapse, or Mir connects with a punch since he is heavyweight who can hit hard, this looks like a bad match for Mir. He can’t take Cormier down, and Cormier is much faster and crisper standing. Mir is still a big enough name opponent that with a win, Cormier would probably be next in line after Alistair Overeem for a shot at the heavyweight title provided Cain Velasquez doesn’t beat Junior Dos Santos and follow up beating Overeem. If that’s the case and Velasquez wins the title, expect Cormier to drop to 205 and challenge Jon Jones.


White noted that Quinton Jackson didn’t want to do his final fight on his contract. What at this point looks to be his last fight will be with Glover Teixeira on the 10/13 show in Rio de Janeiro. He said Jackson asked to be released from his contract and White said he told him that they’ve had his back the whole time he worked for them and that he’s only got one fight left on the deal. White said that they’ve honored the contract so he should too, and Jackson agreed to do the last fight.
 

yacobod

Banned
so rampage agreed to do dana a big solid and put over glover on his way out of the ufc, similar to when brock put over reem last december.

and for Grim:
for something non-superhero check out the first 2 issues of the Massive by Wood or Image's the Prophet, bother are pretty good imo.


I want to see Nick Diaz shoot takedowns on Canderson.
nick ain't no bitch.
 

sazabirules

Unconfirmed Member
so rampage agreed to do dana a big solid and put over glover on his way out of the ufc, similar to when brock put over reem last december.

and for Grim:
for something non-superhero check out the first 2 issues of the Massive by Wood or Image's the Prophet, bother are pretty good imo.



nick ain't no bitch.

I wanted to read The Massive but it wasn't on Comixology.
 

Heel

Member
Nick would take his ass whoopin'. It's whatever. I don't see Uncle Dana putting him at the front of the line that easily.
 

yacobod

Banned
god damn sleeping pill fans making fun of somebody for shooting for takedowns is delicious irony.

if gsp fought anderson he'd be shooting for a td 0.01 seconds after the bell rang.


Nick would take his ass whoopin'. It's whatever. I don't see Uncle Dana putting him at the front of the line that easily.

i'd prefer for somebody like rashad or shogun drop to 185 to fight him, both are smaller LHWs and could make 185 imo. i have no interest in seeing any MW on the ufc roster outside of the count bisping fight anderson.
 

yacobod

Banned
I LOVE BRIAN WOOD'S STORIES! Local is my favorite comic ever.

tell me about The Massive, friend.

how bout you buy the first 2 issues and we can discuss them on goodreads. i enjoyed them a great deal more than that awful scifi short story someone suggested us to read.
 

FACE

Banned
so rampage agreed to do dana a big solid and put over glover on his way out of the ufc, similar to when brock put over reem last december.

I think it's more like Ortiz/Machida where they gave an unknown guy a name fighter that had problems with the management.

how bout you buy the first 2 issues and we can discuss them on goodreads. i enjoyed them a great deal more than that awful scifi short story someone suggested us to read.

You hurt my feelings :(
 
god damn sleeping pill fans making fun of somebody for shooting for takedowns is delicious irony.

if gsp fought anderson he'd be shooting for a td 0.01 seconds after the bell rang.

Saying fighting shouldn't be based on points... try to score points in the last round because you are losing and bitch about how you got the takedown during the post fight interview.


Yaco help me out here. I am looking for a word that describes the example I just wrote.
 

yacobod

Banned
I think it's more like Ortiz/Machida where they gave an unknown guy a name fighter that had problems with the management.

real story: i marked the fuck out at a hooters when i was watching this fight when i thought tito was going to steal it at the end of the 3rd with the sub.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Saying fighting shouldn't be based on points... try to score points in the last round because you are losing and bitch about how you got the takedown during the post fight interview.


Yaco help me out here. I am looking for a word that describes the example I just wrote.

Our good yacofriend has already chosen to ignore Nick's hypocrisy.
 
how bout you buy the first 2 issues and we can discuss them on goodreads. i enjoyed them a great deal more than that awful scifi short story someone suggested us to read.
I'm down for The Massive on goodreads. I read #1 and have #2 sitting in my to-read pile.

Do people have something against Bradbury or are we just shying away from any sci-fi/fantasy because of that half-digested dictionary vomit we were given to read?
 
I'm kinda excited about Total Recall remake. It looks like they kept it the same but just redid it with current cgi effects. Original still holds up too; I watched it last year.
 

ItAintEasyBeinCheesy

it's 4th of July in my asshole
Kenan_%26_Kel_intertitle.jpg


Ya's need to watch some real classics.
 
Top Bottom