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MMA |OT3| When you lose you're a can, when you win you're unstoppable.
- Thread starter Heel
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Biff
Member
UFC has headed a bit too much towards the "sport", "Nike sponsorship" path too quickly I think. Ubertrained chess players toying with brawlers does not make for a big fight feeling.. The brawlers haven't adapted quickly enough to science-backed fighters.
Right now, the UFC is in this weird growing pain stage where their old-school brawl fans are being bored to shit by Nike fighters, and new-school sport fans are having cards ruined by Nike fighters not taking chances with small injuries.
The UFC is heading towards Nike appeal, without a doubt. It's the only way to get to that next level... Seeing UFC fighters promoted on billboards as athletes around the world. Once Uncle D gets this health insurance shit settled to where it is now in football and hockey (people play injured all the time... career-threatening concussion are still a no, but getting a loss isn't the end of the world), I really do think the fanbase will evolve to the point of getting hyped to see two Nike fighters play human chess.
dream
Member
Anyway, I got bored and wrote a couple of essays, if anyone is interested:
UFC has had issues in the past with having to change shows, and periods where it seemed like the injuries would never end. But this past week things have gotten so out of control that several major shows have been switched around.
Injuries to Brian Stann, Michael Bisping and Jose Aldo Jr. within days, forced a lot of tough decisions. Fighters and fights have been removed from one show to save another, leaving, in the case of some fans in Las Vegas and Calgary, unhappy regarding tickets purchased. But the hand dealt made it impossible to make any moves without hurting something and frustrating somebody.
The 7/21 show in Calgary lost Aldo Jr., scheduled to face Erik Koch for the featherweight title, right after moving Shogun Rua, who had no opponent when Thiago Silva, and was moved to the 8/4 FOX show in Los Angeles, which lost its main event when Stann suffered a shoulder injury.
The Calgary debut in one of the markets the company has done consistently great PPV business, sold out the Scotiabank Saddledome to the tune of 17,000 fans paying $4 million immediately as tickets were put on sale. It was also a fan sellout and not a scalpers sellout as there are currently less than 900 tickets available on the secondary market. This made it the largest UFC gate in a North American market of that size. And the show was left with no main event, after having lost its No. 2 fight.
That led to the decision to move Urijah Faber vs. Renan Barao for the interim bantamweight title to Calgary to be its main event. But that to many was a straw that broke the camels back on the 7/7 show in Las Vegas. That show is still one of UFCs better lineups in a long time. But the difference is, when tickets were put on sale, and scaled the highest of any UFC event in history with most seats at or around double of what they would be priced at for a normal PPV show at the MGM Grand, the lineup was altogether different. Then, Rich Franklin was moved out of his fight with Cung Le to save the 7/23 show in Belo Horizonte, Brazil when Vitor Belfort was injured, with Le remaining to face Patrick Cote. Then Michael Bisping vs. Tim Boetsch was moved to Calgary, where it fell apart when Bisping was injured. Then Dominick Cruz tore his ACL, which lead to Faber vs. Barao being announced.
I think people accepted the Franklin move as something that had to happen. Even with him moved to the Brazil show, UFC 148 was still loaded. Moving Bisping vs. Boetsch was also tough, but they still had two title matches, a rarity these days, plus Tito Ortizs retirement match with Forrest Griffin.
The attempt to further hype Oritz vs. Griffin is that Ortiz will be inducted into the Hall of Fame at the Fan Expo in Las Vegas on 7/6. The decision on Ortiz, made by White some time back, was announced at a press conference in Denver on 6/12.
There were no great answers to the problem created when Aldo was injured. Under normal circumstances, with so much falling apart, you perhaps could have moved Calgary back a few months and hope you can get Aldo (whose injury has still yet to be revealed but is believed to be a thigh injury) and Bisping on the show. But the uniqueness of the Saddledome makes it impossible. Because of its shape, the type of equipment UFC needs to do a PPV wouldnt work out if there was snow, and once you get into October, that becomes a major risk. In addition, until the NHL schedule is released, the building wouldnt give UFC a Saturday night date once hockey season starts. Basically, UFC only has a few month window to run in that market. There were complaints about Faber vs. Barao as the main event, but the fact is, the place sold out largely for Aldo vs. Erik Koch, which is a weaker marquee match. The idea of three PPV shows in five Saturdays (which is a four week window) from 6/23 to 7/21 was tough even before all the injuries hit, but that wasnt planned either, since the 6/23 show was originally a week earlier and resulted in a Friday night show in Atlantic City and a Saturday night show in Brazil, which tests everyones endurance. Brazil was a timing issue based on a deal with Globo for the Ultimate Fighter, and then it fell apart because of problems in both Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. They had to do that one. You could argue that 6/23 shouldnt be on PPV, and its not going to do well, but its not like they could get it on TV since they already had FX the night before. Las Vegas was locked for the Fan Expo and the idea was to present the biggest show of the year there at first. Calgary was a matter of the only date available in a market theyve been wanting to run for years, and evidently a market that really wanted a show.
If they hadnt robbed Peter (Las Vegas) so many times after putting tickets on sale, to save the two Pauls, it would be one thing. Injuries are something and there have been a ridiculous amount of them. But to a fan who bought a Las Vegas ticket, when it comes to the originally announced lineup, theres only been one injury, to Cruz. But theyve still now lost three of the five marquee fights.
UFC simply made the announcement on the web site. I dont know how significant any complaints are regarding 7/7 past the fact that weve heard from several fans upset in both markets. Calgary was screwed up by injuries to Bisping, but at least it has a main event of equal value, and you can argue slightly stronger value since its a more competitive fight. And with Faber, its headlined by a far bigger star, even if hes not a better fighter, than Aldo.
For Las Vegas, my belief is that if the price of tickets was at normal level, people would accept it. They are still getting Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen, which may be the biggest MMA fight since Brock Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez. I wouldnt call Ortiz vs. Griffin a strong No. 2 fight today. Its strong because of names, but people do realize both are past their primes. But if you throw in its Ortizs last fight, and who knows how many fights Griffin has left, and both were major players in the growth of the sport, perhaps that adds value. But the decision to pull one of the two title fights combined with the price does become an issue. While not advertising it, UFC does allow fans to get refunds. There were some in Brazil who got it when Belfort was injured. There were some in Las Vegas in October when GSP went down. If it was me, Id do something for people who were unhappy, and by the luck of timing, there is a Fan Expo that weekend in Las Vegas and perhaps allowing those who purchased tickets to get in, or if nothing else, arranging special autograph sessions with legends or giving away programs or DVDs, there are things that can be done. By just making the announcement on the web site, youre talking loyal fans, many of who came in for a cant miss show, feeling the company takes them for granted.
The 8/4 FOX show in Los Angeles was going to be built around Stann with the idea of using FOXs help to get him on major talk shows and sell him as a major star. As for Bisping, the idea was to push him as a guy pushing for a title shot and for the general public, he was probably the guy that would have the most interest against the Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen winner.
Stann suffered a right shoulder injury that needed six to eight weeks off completely and he wasnt going to be ready for a fight until the fall. He was training with 275-pound Shawn Jordan, who hip tossed him and landed right on his shoulder and Stann said he heard the crack immediately.
He said the injury was diagnosed as a Grade 2 separation of his AC joint. He said right now he cant even lift his hand up.
Bisping was having trouble with his knee, dating back 18 months, and he wasnt able to train the way he would have wanted for the Jason Miller fight. Bisping has a rep for never pulling out of fights, and given the timing, since he may have been one win away from his first title fight, the timing couldnt have been worse. An MRI showed damage, including a torn meniscus as well as some loose cartilage, that required time off and hes undergoing arthroscopic surgery on 6/13. He suffered the injury about three weeks ago. The knee had been bothering him for some time. He had trained around it and ho
ped it would heal. He is expected to be ready to fight again in the fall. If the timing works out, a Bisping vs. Stann fight could be a viable PPV semi in late September or October that could catapult either winner to a title shot.
A funny aspect of the Bisping injury is the ultimate worker, Sonnen, though it was a work. When Bisping was in the hospital, he got a message from Sonnen, who believed UFC made up the Bisping injury to pull him from Calgary, and replace Silva against him on 7/7.
Bisping said Sonnens message read: You are not hurt and if it isnt real, send me a code tweet with the word `lad in it. Bisping said that later he got another message from Sonnen, who apparently was convinced by someone it was legit, that read, Alright, conspiracy theory over. Get well soon.
Rua faces Brandon Vera in a five-round main event on FOX. Vera was pulled from the 7/11 show in San Jose so they could have an opponent for Rua. I think they should have done Rua vs. Lyoto Machida, or even Ryan Bader, because both come off to me as stronger main events for FOX. Rua vs. Machida would be the third fight between former champions who split two fights, and both fights were successful PPV main events. Brazil vs. Brazil may be better for PPV to hardcores than to the casual audience on FOX, but I dont know about Vera being the guy. Machida is a lot better fighter than Vera with more of an up side if he wins.
James Te Huna had been scheduled against Vera, and hes remaining on the San Jose show against the returning Joey Beltran, who must be moving down to light heavyweight. Beltran had been cut but they need more bodies to fill all the injury holes.
Vera has gone from a guy who was cut, and only brought back because the guy who beat him (Thiago Silva) was juiced and the loss was changed to a no contest. Hes only won one of his last four, and that was a close win over Eliot Marshall, who was then cut. Now hes in a main event on FOX. Basically its a timing issue as they needed a light heavyweight, everyone else is booked. If they wanted to keep Bader vs. Machida, Vera must have been the best choice available. But hes almost 35, so even with his claims about being more focused and such, if the fight is competitive or he scores the upset, I still dont know what you can do with him.
If they were going to run the Philippines, sure, and if it was a few years ago, because Vera does have some real charisma, but hes lost too much and been around too long and UFC hasnt been able to run in that market. But its not like Vera was the first choice or even the fifth choice, and at some point you have to just find a body. They are scaling tickets for Los Angeles much lower than usual, with tickets as cheap as $30 and top seats at $200. Itll be interesting to see how they do with the lower prices, as the Staples Center has been a tough building. They are two weeks before SummerSlam (which will sell out) and when you go to a New York or Los Angeles, those people expect big-time main events or its tough to get them out.
If 7/7 hadnt had so many changes already, Id have been tempted to put Griffin vs. Ortiz on FOX because at least a great television build for Titos retirement and doing a good retirement ceremony after would make for a good TV hook.
With Bisping out, and Stann out, their respective scheduled foes, Tim Boetsch and Hector Lombard, will meet on 7/21 in Calgary. Lombard would be strong in the title picture with an impressive win. They were also attempting to add one more marquee match to the Calgary show, but the Bibiano Fernandes debut against Roland Delorme match, verbally agreed to last week, was lost when Fernandes decided against signing his UFC contract. Its believed Fernandes got a better offer from One Fighting Championships, but hes now saying, according to Ariel Helwani on UFC Tonight, that hes not interested in fighting until after his wife gives birth this summer and at that time hell choose which promotion hes going to sign with.
White even made a plea to camps to tone things down in training because of all the injuries. Of the injuries that we do know of late, Jon Fitch was a freak injury that wasnt the result of too hard sparring or overtraining. Bisping had been working on an injured knee for so long without taking time off and getting it fixed that it was inevitable. Stann was a freak accident in training and those things are going to happen. Thiago Silvas back problems have been going on for almost two years. Vitor Belfort has a history dating back to the 90s of breaking his hand. Daniel Cormiers three hand breaks saw two in a fight, and the second was in camp, perhaps from coming back too fast. Thiago Alves was a torn pec, and thats a whole different kind of injury, more from a sudden impact when you come in with a muscle imbalance, and not an overtraining injury.
Joe Silvas theory has been that all the top fighters are migrating to specific camps, all loaded with badass fighters. In sparring sessions, instead of working technique, it turns into hard fighting with tough guys. You do that a lot and youre going to get hurt. Others have noted that MMA camps do far more hard sparring of different disciplines than a boxing camp, and the amount of hours of hard training makes one more susceptible to injuries.
UFC has had issues in the past with having to change shows, and periods where it seemed like the injuries would never end. But this past week things have gotten so out of control that several major shows have been switched around.
Injuries to Brian Stann, Michael Bisping and Jose Aldo Jr. within days, forced a lot of tough decisions. Fighters and fights have been removed from one show to save another, leaving, in the case of some fans in Las Vegas and Calgary, unhappy regarding tickets purchased. But the hand dealt made it impossible to make any moves without hurting something and frustrating somebody.
The 7/21 show in Calgary lost Aldo Jr., scheduled to face Erik Koch for the featherweight title, right after moving Shogun Rua, who had no opponent when Thiago Silva, and was moved to the 8/4 FOX show in Los Angeles, which lost its main event when Stann suffered a shoulder injury.
The Calgary debut in one of the markets the company has done consistently great PPV business, sold out the Scotiabank Saddledome to the tune of 17,000 fans paying $4 million immediately as tickets were put on sale. It was also a fan sellout and not a scalpers sellout as there are currently less than 900 tickets available on the secondary market. This made it the largest UFC gate in a North American market of that size. And the show was left with no main event, after having lost its No. 2 fight.
That led to the decision to move Urijah Faber vs. Renan Barao for the interim bantamweight title to Calgary to be its main event. But that to many was a straw that broke the camels back on the 7/7 show in Las Vegas. That show is still one of UFCs better lineups in a long time. But the difference is, when tickets were put on sale, and scaled the highest of any UFC event in history with most seats at or around double of what they would be priced at for a normal PPV show at the MGM Grand, the lineup was altogether different. Then, Rich Franklin was moved out of his fight with Cung Le to save the 7/23 show in Belo Horizonte, Brazil when Vitor Belfort was injured, with Le remaining to face Patrick Cote. Then Michael Bisping vs. Tim Boetsch was moved to Calgary, where it fell apart when Bisping was injured. Then Dominick Cruz tore his ACL, which lead to Faber vs. Barao being announced.
I think people accepted the Franklin move as something that had to happen. Even with him moved to the Brazil show, UFC 148 was still loaded. Moving Bisping vs. Boetsch was also tough, but they still had two title matches, a rarity these days, plus Tito Ortizs retirement match with Forrest Griffin.
The attempt to further hype Oritz vs. Griffin is that Ortiz will be inducted into the Hall of Fame at the Fan Expo in Las Vegas on 7/6. The decision on Ortiz, made by White some time back, was announced at a press conference in Denver on 6/12.
There were no great answers to the problem created when Aldo was injured. Under normal circumstances, with so much falling apart, you perhaps could have moved Calgary back a few months and hope you can get Aldo (whose injury has still yet to be revealed but is believed to be a thigh injury) and Bisping on the show. But the uniqueness of the Saddledome makes it impossible. Because of its shape, the type of equipment UFC needs to do a PPV wouldnt work out if there was snow, and once you get into October, that becomes a major risk. In addition, until the NHL schedule is released, the building wouldnt give UFC a Saturday night date once hockey season starts. Basically, UFC only has a few month window to run in that market. There were complaints about Faber vs. Barao as the main event, but the fact is, the place sold out largely for Aldo vs. Erik Koch, which is a weaker marquee match. The idea of three PPV shows in five Saturdays (which is a four week window) from 6/23 to 7/21 was tough even before all the injuries hit, but that wasnt planned either, since the 6/23 show was originally a week earlier and resulted in a Friday night show in Atlantic City and a Saturday night show in Brazil, which tests everyones endurance. Brazil was a timing issue based on a deal with Globo for the Ultimate Fighter, and then it fell apart because of problems in both Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. They had to do that one. You could argue that 6/23 shouldnt be on PPV, and its not going to do well, but its not like they could get it on TV since they already had FX the night before. Las Vegas was locked for the Fan Expo and the idea was to present the biggest show of the year there at first. Calgary was a matter of the only date available in a market theyve been wanting to run for years, and evidently a market that really wanted a show.
If they hadnt robbed Peter (Las Vegas) so many times after putting tickets on sale, to save the two Pauls, it would be one thing. Injuries are something and there have been a ridiculous amount of them. But to a fan who bought a Las Vegas ticket, when it comes to the originally announced lineup, theres only been one injury, to Cruz. But theyve still now lost three of the five marquee fights.
UFC simply made the announcement on the web site. I dont know how significant any complaints are regarding 7/7 past the fact that weve heard from several fans upset in both markets. Calgary was screwed up by injuries to Bisping, but at least it has a main event of equal value, and you can argue slightly stronger value since its a more competitive fight. And with Faber, its headlined by a far bigger star, even if hes not a better fighter, than Aldo.
For Las Vegas, my belief is that if the price of tickets was at normal level, people would accept it. They are still getting Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen, which may be the biggest MMA fight since Brock Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez. I wouldnt call Ortiz vs. Griffin a strong No. 2 fight today. Its strong because of names, but people do realize both are past their primes. But if you throw in its Ortizs last fight, and who knows how many fights Griffin has left, and both were major players in the growth of the sport, perhaps that adds value. But the decision to pull one of the two title fights combined with the price does become an issue. While not advertising it, UFC does allow fans to get refunds. There were some in Brazil who got it when Belfort was injured. There were some in Las Vegas in October when GSP went down. If it was me, Id do something for people who were unhappy, and by the luck of timing, there is a Fan Expo that weekend in Las Vegas and perhaps allowing those who purchased tickets to get in, or if nothing else, arranging special autograph sessions with legends or giving away programs or DVDs, there are things that can be done. By just making the announcement on the web site, youre talking loyal fans, many of who came in for a cant miss show, feeling the company takes them for granted.
The 8/4 FOX show in Los Angeles was going to be built around Stann with the idea of using FOXs help to get him on major talk shows and sell him as a major star. As for Bisping, the idea was to push him as a guy pushing for a title shot and for the general public, he was probably the guy that would have the most interest against the Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen winner.
Stann suffered a right shoulder injury that needed six to eight weeks off completely and he wasnt going to be ready for a fight until the fall. He was training with 275-pound Shawn Jordan, who hip tossed him and landed right on his shoulder and Stann said he heard the crack immediately.
He said the injury was diagnosed as a Grade 2 separation of his AC joint. He said right now he cant even lift his hand up.
Bisping was having trouble with his knee, dating back 18 months, and he wasnt able to train the way he would have wanted for the Jason Miller fight. Bisping has a rep for never pulling out of fights, and given the timing, since he may have been one win away from his first title fight, the timing couldnt have been worse. An MRI showed damage, including a torn meniscus as well as some loose cartilage, that required time off and hes undergoing arthroscopic surgery on 6/13. He suffered the injury about three weeks ago. The knee had been bothering him for some time. He had trained around it and ho
ped it would heal. He is expected to be ready to fight again in the fall. If the timing works out, a Bisping vs. Stann fight could be a viable PPV semi in late September or October that could catapult either winner to a title shot.
A funny aspect of the Bisping injury is the ultimate worker, Sonnen, though it was a work. When Bisping was in the hospital, he got a message from Sonnen, who believed UFC made up the Bisping injury to pull him from Calgary, and replace Silva against him on 7/7.
Bisping said Sonnens message read: You are not hurt and if it isnt real, send me a code tweet with the word `lad in it. Bisping said that later he got another message from Sonnen, who apparently was convinced by someone it was legit, that read, Alright, conspiracy theory over. Get well soon.
Rua faces Brandon Vera in a five-round main event on FOX. Vera was pulled from the 7/11 show in San Jose so they could have an opponent for Rua. I think they should have done Rua vs. Lyoto Machida, or even Ryan Bader, because both come off to me as stronger main events for FOX. Rua vs. Machida would be the third fight between former champions who split two fights, and both fights were successful PPV main events. Brazil vs. Brazil may be better for PPV to hardcores than to the casual audience on FOX, but I dont know about Vera being the guy. Machida is a lot better fighter than Vera with more of an up side if he wins.
James Te Huna had been scheduled against Vera, and hes remaining on the San Jose show against the returning Joey Beltran, who must be moving down to light heavyweight. Beltran had been cut but they need more bodies to fill all the injury holes.
Vera has gone from a guy who was cut, and only brought back because the guy who beat him (Thiago Silva) was juiced and the loss was changed to a no contest. Hes only won one of his last four, and that was a close win over Eliot Marshall, who was then cut. Now hes in a main event on FOX. Basically its a timing issue as they needed a light heavyweight, everyone else is booked. If they wanted to keep Bader vs. Machida, Vera must have been the best choice available. But hes almost 35, so even with his claims about being more focused and such, if the fight is competitive or he scores the upset, I still dont know what you can do with him.
If they were going to run the Philippines, sure, and if it was a few years ago, because Vera does have some real charisma, but hes lost too much and been around too long and UFC hasnt been able to run in that market. But its not like Vera was the first choice or even the fifth choice, and at some point you have to just find a body. They are scaling tickets for Los Angeles much lower than usual, with tickets as cheap as $30 and top seats at $200. Itll be interesting to see how they do with the lower prices, as the Staples Center has been a tough building. They are two weeks before SummerSlam (which will sell out) and when you go to a New York or Los Angeles, those people expect big-time main events or its tough to get them out.
If 7/7 hadnt had so many changes already, Id have been tempted to put Griffin vs. Ortiz on FOX because at least a great television build for Titos retirement and doing a good retirement ceremony after would make for a good TV hook.
With Bisping out, and Stann out, their respective scheduled foes, Tim Boetsch and Hector Lombard, will meet on 7/21 in Calgary. Lombard would be strong in the title picture with an impressive win. They were also attempting to add one more marquee match to the Calgary show, but the Bibiano Fernandes debut against Roland Delorme match, verbally agreed to last week, was lost when Fernandes decided against signing his UFC contract. Its believed Fernandes got a better offer from One Fighting Championships, but hes now saying, according to Ariel Helwani on UFC Tonight, that hes not interested in fighting until after his wife gives birth this summer and at that time hell choose which promotion hes going to sign with.
White even made a plea to camps to tone things down in training because of all the injuries. Of the injuries that we do know of late, Jon Fitch was a freak injury that wasnt the result of too hard sparring or overtraining. Bisping had been working on an injured knee for so long without taking time off and getting it fixed that it was inevitable. Stann was a freak accident in training and those things are going to happen. Thiago Silvas back problems have been going on for almost two years. Vitor Belfort has a history dating back to the 90s of breaking his hand. Daniel Cormiers three hand breaks saw two in a fight, and the second was in camp, perhaps from coming back too fast. Thiago Alves was a torn pec, and thats a whole different kind of injury, more from a sudden impact when you come in with a muscle imbalance, and not an overtraining injury.
Joe Silvas theory has been that all the top fighters are migrating to specific camps, all loaded with badass fighters. In sparring sessions, instead of working technique, it turns into hard fighting with tough guys. You do that a lot and youre going to get hurt. Others have noted that MMA camps do far more hard sparring of different disciplines than a boxing camp, and the amount of hours of hard training makes one more susceptible to injuries.
dream
Member
Dana White told Kevin Iole of Yahoo.com on 6/12 that the big change in the Ultimate Fighter reality show is that next season it will return to its prior taped format.
White said that season 16 of the show will begin taping in three weeks, although he did not mention who the coaches will be. The season, featuring 32 welterweight fighters who will be fighting for 16 spots in the house, will air on FX on Fridays at 10 p.m. starting in September.
White said that the live season, by far the lowest rated in history, led to an inability to develop storylines introducing the audience to the fighters.
Live was an issue in that it became less a reality show that finished with a fight, as a weekly fight show with a buildup to a fight between two guys the audience didnt really know. But I think the biggest problem was Friday night, which is going to be a tough night to draw for a show that relies so heavily on Males 18-49 for the bulk of its audience.
White told Iole that in his meeting with FX executives, they said to give them one more season on Fridays, and if the audience isnt up the level that he expects, they will move it in 2013 to Tuesday or Wednesday. That would be notable because FX averages a 1.2 rating in prime time, and actually significantly higher than that on Tuesday and Wednesday. Giving up an hour of programming on a strong night would be unlike how television usually operates, as rarely does a show declining in numbers on a bad night then get moved to a good night, and a major show of confidence long-term in UFC.
White said that even though the numbers were down, it was a smash hit for FX. FX claimed that TUF was the second most watched series on basic cable on Friday nights among men 18-34 and 18-49, behind only ESPN, which was broadcasting NBA basketball. The show greatly outperformed what FX was doing in 18-49s on Fridays last year. While I dont have 18-34 and 18-49 male rankings comparisons for the night as a whole, there is no way TUF was No. 2 on basic cable on Fridays in those demos, because of Smackdown, which we do have numbers for.
In Males 18-49, on 5/4, TUF did a 0.7 and Smackdown did a 1.0. On 5/11, TUF did a 0.7 and Smackdown did a 1.0. On 5/18, TUF did a 0.7 and Smackdown did a 1.2. On 5/25, TUF did an 0.7 and Smackdown did a 1.0. Smackdown often outrated NBA games, but since Smackdown drew so many more children than the NBA and UFC, the NBA games won the demo solidly most weeks.
For overall numbers, the discrepancy is far greater as Smackdown averaged a 1.84 rating and 2.67 million viewers in May. TUF averaged an 0.7 rating and 900,000 viewers. In the overall 18-49 demo, TUF never placed in the top 25 on any Friday in May. Smackdown was usually in 5th or 6th place.
Nevertheless, White claimed the perception that TUF wasnt doing well was because Spike TV leaked ratings to MMA web sites and presented them in a misleading way. He said the overall viewership was less on FX than Spike, but that was largely because of the switch of days. If youre asking me the prime reason for the decline, the major reason is the switch of days. But its not the only reason, because they started the season with 1.2 million viewers and ended with barely 800,000, and that decline factors out Friday, since the big number was on a Friday.
At the beginning of the season, they had to compete with Spike confusing the marketplace, and getting people used to watching on a new station, and the first week they also had to compete with Smackdown for one hour. Ten weeks later, none of that was the case. But the audience was still dropping most weeks. There are a number of reasons, and perhaps live is one of them (I personally liked it live, but it was also clear the lack of the hijinx in the house and storylines were hurting the ratings). I think another big one is that it has been so long since the show produced a breakout star. There was a feeling for the first several years that you were getting to see future stars develop before your eyes. In recent years, the feeling has been you are getting to see guys who will bounce around prelims and never go farther than that with rare exceptions.
White also said that Spike tried to create confusion in the marketplace by running reruns of old TUF episodes head-to-head. Thats true, they did, but those shows did poorly and many weeks Spike gave up on doing it and there was no such competition. In addition, after about the third week of bad ratings, if Spike even continued those shows (they did some weeks, not others), they completely stopped promoting them.
The comparison with Smackdown is because Chuck Saftler, the Executive Vice President of FX, in the article claimed the ratings of Ultimate Fighter were on par with Smackdown on Syfy, which has been an institution on Friday nights.
The official numbers for UFC 146 were 11,428 paid, 14,674 total in the building set up for 14,950, and a gate of $3,428,775.
The current plan for 11/17 in Montreal is GSP vs. Carlos Condit and Martin Kampmann vs. Johny Hendricks with the winner becoming the No. 1 contender. Of course Nick Diaz is still the fly in the ointment because if the next fight would take place after February, which it would, if GSP is still champion, the money is Diaz. If Condit wins, then he can face Kampmann or Hendricks while GSP faces Diaz.
The Ronda Rousey vs. Sarah Kaufman fight on 8/18 will be from San Diego.
The 6/23 show in Belo Horizonte, Brazil has sold 11,000 tickets for $1.25 million. There were requests, but not a ton, for refunds when Vitor Belfort got hurt. Its set up for 17,000 and with the comps and such there are about 4,000 tickets left. The 7/7 show in Las Vegas had a $3.8 million advance when it comes to tickets sold at ticket outlets. This doesnt include all the casino buys. But I checked and there were plenty of tickets left, not that there will be the day of the show. There were also tickets left late for the Pacquiao fight which would be the first time that was the case for one of his fights in a long time. It was scaled for $7 million for a real sellout, since its the most expensive scaled tickets ever for UFC with $1,200 ringside. But it may fall short of that, although it will be among the biggest gates in UFC history, and could still end up the second biggest ever. The Las Vegas record and second biggest (behind the Toronto Rogers Centre show) in history if $5,441,290 for UFC 100 in the same MGM Grand Garden Arena.
In the kayfabe is dead section, both Josh Koscheck and Faris Zahabi (head of Tri-Star gym) both talked about recent challenges that were made and how UFC was behind them. Koscheck had challenged B.J. Penn to a fight, although Koscheck up front said UFC had come to him with the fight. But he did say they asked him to make noise about it and you dont have to ask Koscheck twice when it comes to stuff like that. But Penn turned it down. Zahabi said UFC came to Rory MacDonald and asked him to challenge Penn. It seemed out of character for MacDonald, who was on Ariel Helwanis show issuing the challenge, and the tape and story were talked about the next day on UFC Tonight. By that time, Penn had already accepted. Why Penn accepted MacDonald and not Koscheck or Melendez, based on Penns reaction to the question, is that he saw a chance to fight someone from Tri-Star trained by Zahabi. MacDonald was on MMA Uncensored and outright said that before he issued the challenge, that Dana White had told him Penn wanted the fight and to issue the challenge. Craig Carton, who sometimes bothers me because he comes off as a fan who doesnt know what hes talking about on that show, is really great at doing interviews when it comes to breaking kayfabe because he doesnt care what he says. He puts guys in really uncomfortable positions and relentlessly hounds them about questions they dont want to answer. He was great at the end of the 6/6 show where he talked about Frank Mir on TRT, called him the liar of the week, showed a tape from the show where he was asked about using it and denied it, and then said how when he asked him the question on the show that we all knew he was.
MacDonald may or may not end being the next GSP when it comes to winning a championship in his career, but its night and day on the charisma. When GSP started he had something that broke him out of the pack and when he got on his hands and knees and did that Terry Funk interview the first time and begged for a title shot, he made himself into a superstar, and whenever you see him, or are around him, he has that aura of being somebody. MacDonald doesnt have that at all. MacDonald has also said that he would have rather fought Carlos Condit than Penn, given that his only career loss was to Condit. But that fight makes zero sense for UFC, as if MacDonald were to win, hed be interim champion. MacDonald and GSP are training partners and GSP is something of a mentor to MacDonald, and both have made it clear they will never fight the other. This makes booking difficult and I dont think MacDonald can cut to 155, and hed give up too much size at 185. Theres always been the talk with guys like Jon Fitch and Josh Koscheck about fighting each other and such. UFC was able to manipulate Evans and Jones to go at it. But MacDonald and GSP is the first time youve got a champion and a guy who is really a fight or two away from where he could be top contender and the contender wont go for the title. At that point, how do you book him? Do you have him go against mid-level guys and hopefully he doesnt stumble and is ready when GSP loses? Do you pressure him into changing weight classes? Do you put him against the guys GSP just beat who are top guys? You cant put him against potential top contenders because then you are risking eliminating a title match. If Cain Velasquez wins the title, heavyweight could have the same issue with Daniel Cormier, but a lot more has to fall into place. Cormier has said hed consider 205 and if he can learn to be strict on his diet and make it in a healthy manner, he and Jon Jones is a potential big fight.
Roy Nelson a few weeks ago was talking about wanting to do pro wrestling again. Hes never done it before, but has expressed interest in doing it at different times over the past few years. Nelson, at one point when it appeared he was going to be forced out of UFC due to an issue of having signed a contract with Roy Jones Jr., and Jones Jr.s promotion threatening UFC, had contacted WWE about trying to get into the promotion. WWE didnt express much interest, as he doesnt exactly look like Vince likes wrestlers to look, plus Vince right now has the mentality, based on negotiating with some MMA fighters like Bob Sapp and others, that the fighters simply wont want to do the schedule required. TNA was interested in him but by that point things had been worked out with UFC, and White made it clear that he didnt want anyone in his promotion doing pro wrestling. Nelson talked about how King Mo is getting good money for doing both and hed like to do that as well. He also said that MMA is more entertainment than sport. Were in the entertainment business. As much as people would like to say its sport, its definitely entertainment. We handle it from both sides of the coin, from the sport aspect and the entertainment aspect. Youve got to have both because if were not doing solid ratings, were not going to be on TV. Its definitely entertainment. He was also ripping on Lesnar, saying he wanted to face Lesnar in WWE, saying that Lesnar was given an easy path to the championship and that if Lesnar is put in the UFC Hall of Fame (a controversial subject these days, since a lot of fans are vociferous he doesnt belong and then Randy Couture and Kenny Florian both were on UFC Tonight saying he does), he belongs in as well. Somehow I dont see his logic. Nelson also probably got the promotion mad when he estimated that 60% of his opponents were using performance enhancing drugs.
Jeff Curran, after first saying hed retire if he lost his last fight, then getting cut, is apparently contemplating moving down to 125 pounds and trying to work his way back into UFC, which doesnt have nearly the depth at that weight class at this point.
Mark Hunt is scheduled for knee surgery on 6/13. If he recovers quickly enough, they are trying to put together Hunt vs. Roy Nelson.
The big combat sports news of the week was that Manny Pacquiaos win streak was halted in a match with Timothy Bradley that must people thought Pacquiao dominated. Two of the three judges voted 7-5 in rounds for Bradley and the other had it for Pacquiao. This led to people calling for the heads of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, the judges, complaining that it was fixed because promoter Bob Arum and Pacquiao were having troubles and Bradley was an Arum fighter who he wasnt having trouble with. I didnt see the fight, but of the 51 major boxing reporters who scored the fight, 48 of them had it for Pacquiao. But it wasnt all 51, although I saw veteran reporters saying it was a worse decision than the Lennox Lewis vs. Evander Holyfield draw, which was the last big boxing match I can recall with his level of outrage at the judging. Keep in mind they came back and did bigger business with the rematch than they would have if the judges had given the first fight to Lewis, who clearly won it. And people then were talking about how its the death knell of boxing, like some are now. As a general rule, people get furious, but when the next big fight happens, itll draw and the long-term problems are whether new stars who can draw come along or can be made, and not bad judging. Every close decision no matter which way it goes ends up being labeled a robbery by somebody, but they are inherent and dont hurt the sport in the big picture. Of course, from almost all accounts, this wasnt even close and was a genuine robbery and when there is high stakes gambling and if its true that a lot of late money came in for Bradley, people are going to put two and two together whether or not they really add up to four here. Anything is possible, but Ive seen enough bad scorecards and promotions that flip out over them to know that in 99.9% of the cases, at least on the national stage (local stage is different, Japan is different, favoring local fighters absolutely happens in all sports) if a decision is bad its because the judge saw things differently. That could be the sign of a bad judge if it happens all the time. On a percentage basis, the really bad decisions are small, but they also do exist and will always exist. On the flip side, the November rematch will have tons more interest than the first fight, and the replay of this fight on HBO will draw much higher ratings than it otherwise would have. I dont think thats good for the sport as a whole because people see it as slimy and corrupt. The commissions do need to monitor judges who have been off the mark too often, and when HBO before the fight started brought up bad decisions by one of the judges, it does make you wonder about someone if they really have a bad track record being assigned to such a high profile fight. Another aspect is the HBO team and their scorer had it 11-1 for Pacquiao. Most writers had it closer, and Ive seen with UFC that the announcers do lead the viewers. Still, its not like almost anyone when the fight was over had even a question as to who won, and its almost a perfect storm when, if you have 51 writers and three judges, and of that group, only five believe Bradley won, but two of those five had the power of decision making. The odds of that are gigantic, which is why it almost never happens. Only the best and most astute judges should be doing the big fights and I dont know thats the case. People were pointing to the fact that two of the judges were older than 70, but Im sure there have been great judges at that age and lousy judges who were 35. Its not fair for me to say anything about it past that until seeing the fight. But I had thought a loss by either Mayweather or Pacquiao on the way to the big fight would take the edge off. But in this case, if Pacquiao wins the rematch, the Mayweather fight is as strong as ever. Some say the delay hurts it, but I dont buy that yet, as even if both men are not at their athletic prime, they are still in their star power prime. But theyve not made the match for long enough and there is a finite line and Id hate for us to look back and go the one fight that could have done 2.5 million or 3 million buys in this era never happened.
White said that season 16 of the show will begin taping in three weeks, although he did not mention who the coaches will be. The season, featuring 32 welterweight fighters who will be fighting for 16 spots in the house, will air on FX on Fridays at 10 p.m. starting in September.
White said that the live season, by far the lowest rated in history, led to an inability to develop storylines introducing the audience to the fighters.
Live was an issue in that it became less a reality show that finished with a fight, as a weekly fight show with a buildup to a fight between two guys the audience didnt really know. But I think the biggest problem was Friday night, which is going to be a tough night to draw for a show that relies so heavily on Males 18-49 for the bulk of its audience.
White told Iole that in his meeting with FX executives, they said to give them one more season on Fridays, and if the audience isnt up the level that he expects, they will move it in 2013 to Tuesday or Wednesday. That would be notable because FX averages a 1.2 rating in prime time, and actually significantly higher than that on Tuesday and Wednesday. Giving up an hour of programming on a strong night would be unlike how television usually operates, as rarely does a show declining in numbers on a bad night then get moved to a good night, and a major show of confidence long-term in UFC.
White said that even though the numbers were down, it was a smash hit for FX. FX claimed that TUF was the second most watched series on basic cable on Friday nights among men 18-34 and 18-49, behind only ESPN, which was broadcasting NBA basketball. The show greatly outperformed what FX was doing in 18-49s on Fridays last year. While I dont have 18-34 and 18-49 male rankings comparisons for the night as a whole, there is no way TUF was No. 2 on basic cable on Fridays in those demos, because of Smackdown, which we do have numbers for.
In Males 18-49, on 5/4, TUF did a 0.7 and Smackdown did a 1.0. On 5/11, TUF did a 0.7 and Smackdown did a 1.0. On 5/18, TUF did a 0.7 and Smackdown did a 1.2. On 5/25, TUF did an 0.7 and Smackdown did a 1.0. Smackdown often outrated NBA games, but since Smackdown drew so many more children than the NBA and UFC, the NBA games won the demo solidly most weeks.
For overall numbers, the discrepancy is far greater as Smackdown averaged a 1.84 rating and 2.67 million viewers in May. TUF averaged an 0.7 rating and 900,000 viewers. In the overall 18-49 demo, TUF never placed in the top 25 on any Friday in May. Smackdown was usually in 5th or 6th place.
Nevertheless, White claimed the perception that TUF wasnt doing well was because Spike TV leaked ratings to MMA web sites and presented them in a misleading way. He said the overall viewership was less on FX than Spike, but that was largely because of the switch of days. If youre asking me the prime reason for the decline, the major reason is the switch of days. But its not the only reason, because they started the season with 1.2 million viewers and ended with barely 800,000, and that decline factors out Friday, since the big number was on a Friday.
At the beginning of the season, they had to compete with Spike confusing the marketplace, and getting people used to watching on a new station, and the first week they also had to compete with Smackdown for one hour. Ten weeks later, none of that was the case. But the audience was still dropping most weeks. There are a number of reasons, and perhaps live is one of them (I personally liked it live, but it was also clear the lack of the hijinx in the house and storylines were hurting the ratings). I think another big one is that it has been so long since the show produced a breakout star. There was a feeling for the first several years that you were getting to see future stars develop before your eyes. In recent years, the feeling has been you are getting to see guys who will bounce around prelims and never go farther than that with rare exceptions.
White also said that Spike tried to create confusion in the marketplace by running reruns of old TUF episodes head-to-head. Thats true, they did, but those shows did poorly and many weeks Spike gave up on doing it and there was no such competition. In addition, after about the third week of bad ratings, if Spike even continued those shows (they did some weeks, not others), they completely stopped promoting them.
The comparison with Smackdown is because Chuck Saftler, the Executive Vice President of FX, in the article claimed the ratings of Ultimate Fighter were on par with Smackdown on Syfy, which has been an institution on Friday nights.
The official numbers for UFC 146 were 11,428 paid, 14,674 total in the building set up for 14,950, and a gate of $3,428,775.
The current plan for 11/17 in Montreal is GSP vs. Carlos Condit and Martin Kampmann vs. Johny Hendricks with the winner becoming the No. 1 contender. Of course Nick Diaz is still the fly in the ointment because if the next fight would take place after February, which it would, if GSP is still champion, the money is Diaz. If Condit wins, then he can face Kampmann or Hendricks while GSP faces Diaz.
The Ronda Rousey vs. Sarah Kaufman fight on 8/18 will be from San Diego.
The 6/23 show in Belo Horizonte, Brazil has sold 11,000 tickets for $1.25 million. There were requests, but not a ton, for refunds when Vitor Belfort got hurt. Its set up for 17,000 and with the comps and such there are about 4,000 tickets left. The 7/7 show in Las Vegas had a $3.8 million advance when it comes to tickets sold at ticket outlets. This doesnt include all the casino buys. But I checked and there were plenty of tickets left, not that there will be the day of the show. There were also tickets left late for the Pacquiao fight which would be the first time that was the case for one of his fights in a long time. It was scaled for $7 million for a real sellout, since its the most expensive scaled tickets ever for UFC with $1,200 ringside. But it may fall short of that, although it will be among the biggest gates in UFC history, and could still end up the second biggest ever. The Las Vegas record and second biggest (behind the Toronto Rogers Centre show) in history if $5,441,290 for UFC 100 in the same MGM Grand Garden Arena.
In the kayfabe is dead section, both Josh Koscheck and Faris Zahabi (head of Tri-Star gym) both talked about recent challenges that were made and how UFC was behind them. Koscheck had challenged B.J. Penn to a fight, although Koscheck up front said UFC had come to him with the fight. But he did say they asked him to make noise about it and you dont have to ask Koscheck twice when it comes to stuff like that. But Penn turned it down. Zahabi said UFC came to Rory MacDonald and asked him to challenge Penn. It seemed out of character for MacDonald, who was on Ariel Helwanis show issuing the challenge, and the tape and story were talked about the next day on UFC Tonight. By that time, Penn had already accepted. Why Penn accepted MacDonald and not Koscheck or Melendez, based on Penns reaction to the question, is that he saw a chance to fight someone from Tri-Star trained by Zahabi. MacDonald was on MMA Uncensored and outright said that before he issued the challenge, that Dana White had told him Penn wanted the fight and to issue the challenge. Craig Carton, who sometimes bothers me because he comes off as a fan who doesnt know what hes talking about on that show, is really great at doing interviews when it comes to breaking kayfabe because he doesnt care what he says. He puts guys in really uncomfortable positions and relentlessly hounds them about questions they dont want to answer. He was great at the end of the 6/6 show where he talked about Frank Mir on TRT, called him the liar of the week, showed a tape from the show where he was asked about using it and denied it, and then said how when he asked him the question on the show that we all knew he was.
MacDonald may or may not end being the next GSP when it comes to winning a championship in his career, but its night and day on the charisma. When GSP started he had something that broke him out of the pack and when he got on his hands and knees and did that Terry Funk interview the first time and begged for a title shot, he made himself into a superstar, and whenever you see him, or are around him, he has that aura of being somebody. MacDonald doesnt have that at all. MacDonald has also said that he would have rather fought Carlos Condit than Penn, given that his only career loss was to Condit. But that fight makes zero sense for UFC, as if MacDonald were to win, hed be interim champion. MacDonald and GSP are training partners and GSP is something of a mentor to MacDonald, and both have made it clear they will never fight the other. This makes booking difficult and I dont think MacDonald can cut to 155, and hed give up too much size at 185. Theres always been the talk with guys like Jon Fitch and Josh Koscheck about fighting each other and such. UFC was able to manipulate Evans and Jones to go at it. But MacDonald and GSP is the first time youve got a champion and a guy who is really a fight or two away from where he could be top contender and the contender wont go for the title. At that point, how do you book him? Do you have him go against mid-level guys and hopefully he doesnt stumble and is ready when GSP loses? Do you pressure him into changing weight classes? Do you put him against the guys GSP just beat who are top guys? You cant put him against potential top contenders because then you are risking eliminating a title match. If Cain Velasquez wins the title, heavyweight could have the same issue with Daniel Cormier, but a lot more has to fall into place. Cormier has said hed consider 205 and if he can learn to be strict on his diet and make it in a healthy manner, he and Jon Jones is a potential big fight.
Roy Nelson a few weeks ago was talking about wanting to do pro wrestling again. Hes never done it before, but has expressed interest in doing it at different times over the past few years. Nelson, at one point when it appeared he was going to be forced out of UFC due to an issue of having signed a contract with Roy Jones Jr., and Jones Jr.s promotion threatening UFC, had contacted WWE about trying to get into the promotion. WWE didnt express much interest, as he doesnt exactly look like Vince likes wrestlers to look, plus Vince right now has the mentality, based on negotiating with some MMA fighters like Bob Sapp and others, that the fighters simply wont want to do the schedule required. TNA was interested in him but by that point things had been worked out with UFC, and White made it clear that he didnt want anyone in his promotion doing pro wrestling. Nelson talked about how King Mo is getting good money for doing both and hed like to do that as well. He also said that MMA is more entertainment than sport. Were in the entertainment business. As much as people would like to say its sport, its definitely entertainment. We handle it from both sides of the coin, from the sport aspect and the entertainment aspect. Youve got to have both because if were not doing solid ratings, were not going to be on TV. Its definitely entertainment. He was also ripping on Lesnar, saying he wanted to face Lesnar in WWE, saying that Lesnar was given an easy path to the championship and that if Lesnar is put in the UFC Hall of Fame (a controversial subject these days, since a lot of fans are vociferous he doesnt belong and then Randy Couture and Kenny Florian both were on UFC Tonight saying he does), he belongs in as well. Somehow I dont see his logic. Nelson also probably got the promotion mad when he estimated that 60% of his opponents were using performance enhancing drugs.
Jeff Curran, after first saying hed retire if he lost his last fight, then getting cut, is apparently contemplating moving down to 125 pounds and trying to work his way back into UFC, which doesnt have nearly the depth at that weight class at this point.
Mark Hunt is scheduled for knee surgery on 6/13. If he recovers quickly enough, they are trying to put together Hunt vs. Roy Nelson.
The big combat sports news of the week was that Manny Pacquiaos win streak was halted in a match with Timothy Bradley that must people thought Pacquiao dominated. Two of the three judges voted 7-5 in rounds for Bradley and the other had it for Pacquiao. This led to people calling for the heads of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, the judges, complaining that it was fixed because promoter Bob Arum and Pacquiao were having troubles and Bradley was an Arum fighter who he wasnt having trouble with. I didnt see the fight, but of the 51 major boxing reporters who scored the fight, 48 of them had it for Pacquiao. But it wasnt all 51, although I saw veteran reporters saying it was a worse decision than the Lennox Lewis vs. Evander Holyfield draw, which was the last big boxing match I can recall with his level of outrage at the judging. Keep in mind they came back and did bigger business with the rematch than they would have if the judges had given the first fight to Lewis, who clearly won it. And people then were talking about how its the death knell of boxing, like some are now. As a general rule, people get furious, but when the next big fight happens, itll draw and the long-term problems are whether new stars who can draw come along or can be made, and not bad judging. Every close decision no matter which way it goes ends up being labeled a robbery by somebody, but they are inherent and dont hurt the sport in the big picture. Of course, from almost all accounts, this wasnt even close and was a genuine robbery and when there is high stakes gambling and if its true that a lot of late money came in for Bradley, people are going to put two and two together whether or not they really add up to four here. Anything is possible, but Ive seen enough bad scorecards and promotions that flip out over them to know that in 99.9% of the cases, at least on the national stage (local stage is different, Japan is different, favoring local fighters absolutely happens in all sports) if a decision is bad its because the judge saw things differently. That could be the sign of a bad judge if it happens all the time. On a percentage basis, the really bad decisions are small, but they also do exist and will always exist. On the flip side, the November rematch will have tons more interest than the first fight, and the replay of this fight on HBO will draw much higher ratings than it otherwise would have. I dont think thats good for the sport as a whole because people see it as slimy and corrupt. The commissions do need to monitor judges who have been off the mark too often, and when HBO before the fight started brought up bad decisions by one of the judges, it does make you wonder about someone if they really have a bad track record being assigned to such a high profile fight. Another aspect is the HBO team and their scorer had it 11-1 for Pacquiao. Most writers had it closer, and Ive seen with UFC that the announcers do lead the viewers. Still, its not like almost anyone when the fight was over had even a question as to who won, and its almost a perfect storm when, if you have 51 writers and three judges, and of that group, only five believe Bradley won, but two of those five had the power of decision making. The odds of that are gigantic, which is why it almost never happens. Only the best and most astute judges should be doing the big fights and I dont know thats the case. People were pointing to the fact that two of the judges were older than 70, but Im sure there have been great judges at that age and lousy judges who were 35. Its not fair for me to say anything about it past that until seeing the fight. But I had thought a loss by either Mayweather or Pacquiao on the way to the big fight would take the edge off. But in this case, if Pacquiao wins the rematch, the Mayweather fight is as strong as ever. Some say the delay hurts it, but I dont buy that yet, as even if both men are not at their athletic prime, they are still in their star power prime. But theyve not made the match for long enough and there is a finite line and Id hate for us to look back and go the one fight that could have done 2.5 million or 3 million buys in this era never happened.
If I have to watch grown men act like little kids (i.e. pee in other people's food
), then well....screw taped segments. I liked that the show was more mature. The 'pranks' were all harmless and the people on this season were much more respectable than season's past.
If by 'story line', they mean finding drama to follow and make their own stories up, then no thanks.
I was fine with the live season, although I missed the end of some fights do to it running over the DVR recording that was already set to extend.
), then well....screw taped segments. I liked that the show was more mature. The 'pranks' were all harmless and the people on this season were much more respectable than season's past.
If by 'story line', they mean finding drama to follow and make their own stories up, then no thanks.
I was fine with the live season, although I missed the end of some fights do to it running over the DVR recording that was already set to extend.
Host Samurai
Member
When Pacman vs Mayweather happens people will bitch that it didn't happen when it should have. See Wand vs Chuck. One of those fights that could have been magic if it happened during their time.
Host Samurai
Member
If you guys were in charge of building the UFC what would you do? And how would you build your characters. I believe Roy Nelson is 100% right, MMA is entertainment but you also have to draw that line between entertainment and sport. I for one would like more spectacle, so yes I would pay $100 to see JDS fight the Big Show. Big Nog vs Bob Sapp was one of the most epic fights I've ever seen.
dream
Member
I like it as a sport.
I think EliteXC tempted the fate of entertainment/sport with Kimbo Slice, and while they got ratings, you see what happened in the fall out of him actually winning a few fights and then losing.
If by chance one of the 'characters' gets some wins going, it can be pretty damaging to the more legitimate fighters.
95% of their roster had their fight style listed as 'brawler'. It was basically UFC circa 91 with more rules, but less talent.
The sport in itself is the entertainment to the people that will continually watch it. No need to ham it up.
I think EliteXC tempted the fate of entertainment/sport with Kimbo Slice, and while they got ratings, you see what happened in the fall out of him actually winning a few fights and then losing.
If by chance one of the 'characters' gets some wins going, it can be pretty damaging to the more legitimate fighters.
95% of their roster had their fight style listed as 'brawler'. It was basically UFC circa 91 with more rules, but less talent.
The sport in itself is the entertainment to the people that will continually watch it. No need to ham it up.
Sports should be void of personality? No Fun League isn't a compliment.
You can be both talented and someone people remember beyond "oh, it's that wrestler with the beard" you know.
dream
Member
So this video is not available in my country:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDwsI1IsbEA&feature=player_embedded
Can someone make it available to me? Please?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDwsI1IsbEA&feature=player_embedded
Can someone make it available to me? Please?
I see. A lot of this is solved if the UFC was better at painting a picture and telling us who these fighters are and why we should care beyond "this is a great match up stylistically" or "wow that guy really hit him hard". That can only take you so far when it comes to developing stars.
So as it stands, I'd rather someone self promote themselves like Chael than be a complete waste of mic time like 90% of the roster.
Well my interest in watching a full card just dies when things slow down to a crawl. Seeing the TUF premiere be 2 hours of nonstop fights was awesome, and they were all live and no prelims were if they were showing a fight, you likely knew it was over quick.
Every fight being 1 round added so much tension knowing it was going to be 5 minutes of 2 guys doing their best, and it certainly makes judging easier if it's just one round. Heck, fuck judging, if there's no clear winner after 1 round, just give it a draw. Make em finish or it's a draw.
I'd also try and give the fighters some freedom in not having to worry about if they lose they get cut. It's been said before how many fighters are out there to win and not entertain, well when they lose, they've become useless and get cut anyway.
I'd get rid of weight cutting. You're an athlete, a fighter under a promotion with a contract. Make it your job to stick within your decided weight class and stay there. This metagame of who can cut the most weight is lame in my opinion and just takes its toll on fighters and their longevity and we've seen it effect cardio, etc etc.
I'm tired.
Welcome to the club, friend. Try not to let these pro wrestling fanboys pretending to be mma fans drag you down.
dream
Member
Thank you to our fallen comrade Captain Yamamoto for making this video available to me and making me genuinely excited for an Ultimate Fight for the first time this year. Especially after hearing BJ say "I'm not an athlete; I'm a fighter." Thank you BJ for making me love this sport again.
This sounds familiar..........
parrotbeak
Member
Did they stretch out his side of the video as a joke?
Oh, he's coming up with ideas to stop from being held against the fence. Maybe he's trying to get really bouncy.
Oh, he's coming up with ideas to stop from being held against the fence. Maybe he's trying to get really bouncy.
dream
Member
I miss this type of excitement and articulacy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5G8aMuRGQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5G8aMuRGQ
too bad he shit the bed again against little Frankie Edgar
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
We're going to end up with Stefan Struve vs. Stipe Miocic for the Interim HW belt.
No, he just gets decision'd.
Roland Deschain
Member
Thanks for the essays Dream.
Especially after hearing BJ say "I'm not an athlete; I'm a fighter." Thank you BJ for making me love this sport again.
Reminds me of the premise of a great op and thread friend.
Maklershed
Member
Part of what will help TUF come back is getting rid of entrance fights (so they can hand pick a few Junie Brownings), yes or not?
they can change the format all they want, i doubt i'd ever watch TUF again.
They need to do another TUF4 with a bunch of veterans where the winners get a guaranteed title shot.
BJ knocking out Rory in the opening 20 seconds of the fight, sprinting out of the octagon, and getting on a plane back to Hawaii would be my ultimate moment of the year.
Host Samurai
Member
Here is a revision of my list of fighters per generation. I have now added a TUF generation as an extension of generation 2 as they are pretty much molded together.
Generation 1
Rickson Gracie
Ken Shamrock
Royce Gracie
Kazushi Sakuraba
Dan Severn
Tank Abbot
Don Frye
Mark Coleman
Mark Kerr
Gary Goodridge
Maurice Smith
Bas Rutten
Kimo Leopoldo
Oleg Taktarov
Igor Vovchchyn
Guy Mezgar
Generation 2
Fedor Emelianenko
Big Nog
Mirko Crocop
Little Nog
Tito Ortiz
Frank Shamrock
Chuck Liddell
Ricardo Arona
Josh Barnett
Wanderlei Silva
Shogun
Rampage
Vitor Belfort
Alistar Overeem
Randy Couture
Frank Mir
Tim Sylvia
Andre Alrovski
Anderson Silva
Sean Sherk
BJ Penn
Matt Hughes
Carlos Newton
Phil Baroni
Anderson Silva
Heath Herring
Krazy Horse
Renato Sobral
Mark Hunt
Dan Henderson
Sokodoujo
Generation 2/TUF Era
Forrest Griffen
Stephan Bonnar
Rich Franklin
Brock Lesnar
Cheick Kongo
Roy Nelson
Kenny Florian
GSP
Jake Shields
Nick Diaz
Nate Diaz
Koscheck
Rashad Evans
Lyoto Machida
Theigo Silva
Chael Sonnen
Gabriel Gonzaga
Shane Carwin
Yushin Okami
Michael Bisping
John Fitch
Generation 3
Jon Jones
Alexander Gus
Ryan Bader
Cain Valasquez
JDS
Frankie Edgar
Benson Henderson
Anthony Pettis
Jose Aldo
Faber
Cruz
Jim Miller
Jake Ellenberger
Rory MacDonald
Johnny Hendricks
Stephan Struve
Korean Zombie
Hatso Hioki
Phil Davis
Brian Stann
Tim Boesch
Carlos Condit
Cowboy Cerrone
Big gap between generation 2/TUF and generation 3. It goes from skilled brawlers to point fighters pretty fast and the future is 100% in the lighter divisions. BW, FW and LW will be the fighters to watch within the coming years when the HW,LHW & MW stars start to fizzle out.
Also evolved my ass. Generation 2 did evolve over generation 1 but can you really say that generation 3 has evolved over generation 2? I don't buy it. Maybe the lighter classes have improved but not a chance the HW-MW have.
Generation 1
Rickson Gracie
Ken Shamrock
Royce Gracie
Kazushi Sakuraba
Dan Severn
Tank Abbot
Don Frye
Mark Coleman
Mark Kerr
Gary Goodridge
Maurice Smith
Bas Rutten
Kimo Leopoldo
Oleg Taktarov
Igor Vovchchyn
Guy Mezgar
Generation 2
Fedor Emelianenko
Big Nog
Mirko Crocop
Little Nog
Tito Ortiz
Frank Shamrock
Chuck Liddell
Ricardo Arona
Josh Barnett
Wanderlei Silva
Shogun
Rampage
Vitor Belfort
Alistar Overeem
Randy Couture
Frank Mir
Tim Sylvia
Andre Alrovski
Anderson Silva
Sean Sherk
BJ Penn
Matt Hughes
Carlos Newton
Phil Baroni
Anderson Silva
Heath Herring
Krazy Horse
Renato Sobral
Mark Hunt
Dan Henderson
Sokodoujo
Generation 2/TUF Era
Forrest Griffen
Stephan Bonnar
Rich Franklin
Brock Lesnar
Cheick Kongo
Roy Nelson
Kenny Florian
GSP
Jake Shields
Nick Diaz
Nate Diaz
Koscheck
Rashad Evans
Lyoto Machida
Theigo Silva
Chael Sonnen
Gabriel Gonzaga
Shane Carwin
Yushin Okami
Michael Bisping
John Fitch
Generation 3
Jon Jones
Alexander Gus
Ryan Bader
Cain Valasquez
JDS
Frankie Edgar
Benson Henderson
Anthony Pettis
Jose Aldo
Faber
Cruz
Jim Miller
Jake Ellenberger
Rory MacDonald
Johnny Hendricks
Stephan Struve
Korean Zombie
Hatso Hioki
Phil Davis
Brian Stann
Tim Boesch
Carlos Condit
Cowboy Cerrone
Big gap between generation 2/TUF and generation 3. It goes from skilled brawlers to point fighters pretty fast and the future is 100% in the lighter divisions. BW, FW and LW will be the fighters to watch within the coming years when the HW,LHW & MW stars start to fizzle out.
Also evolved my ass. Generation 2 did evolve over generation 1 but can you really say that generation 3 has evolved over generation 2? I don't buy it. Maybe the lighter classes have improved but not a chance the HW-MW have.
Just above 100k.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
Yes, probably 200-250k
There's still plenty of "I liked TUF Live" fans out there, friend.
TUF brazil wasn't broadcast in the states or was it?
I stand by my 150k tho, the card is pure shit. i'm not even going to stream or nerd chat for it.
My point being is there's still plenty of hardcore fans where fatigue hasn't set in. They play right into the UFC's hand and will take anything they're given week after week.
The revolution will take time, but when it happens it will be glorious. Florida was the catalyst of hope.
TheNatural
My Member!
Mir v. Cro Cop can never be topped.
Yeah, I mean clearly how the fights themselves play out are not the reason why ratings and buy rates are sagging. The cards have been dynamite if you actually watch them.
Uncle Dana needs to quit the "Everyone bitched about this card...but guess what fuckers, the fights were awesome tonight!" shtick and realize that's not the issue at hand going forward.
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