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[calico]

In all fairness I I forgot to address this. How's that 'consequence' theory working out in Iran right now? All those bombs the U.S. and Israel have been dropping haven't exactly stopped them from launching missiles into Israel, threatening neighboring countries, or leveraging the Strait as pressure. At best, it's slowed things down. Is that what you mean by 'constrained'?

These consequences evidently were not enough to constrain the attempt to prevent the unacceptable threat. I'm asking why it would have been better to delay what is happening now until the threat progressed to your 'imminent' stage (which you won't define in this case for whatever reason) before addressing it? Iran's ability to retaliate won't magically have disappeared then, except then they are 'imminently' able to retaliate with a nuclear weapon.

If 'I believe they'll threaten me someday' is enough, then every country can make that exact same claim about anyone.

Every country can already act on that basis or any other basis if they are willing to accept the consequences. It is consequences applying the constraint, not precedent.

 

[Roni]

I'm deflecting??? why can't you answer the question?

Because the answer to those questions has no bearing on the fact Iran was attacked unprovoked and with ample forethought.

So yeah, you're deflecting.

Matter of fact, I'm an atheist, meaning a theocracy is pretty far from something I'd support. But my country has been the target of US influence in the past and present as well and it sucks. So I don't support the US meddling in any foreign affairs.

Well, considering the IAEA is not a secretive agency, when Israel revealed locations and told the IAEA to check them out Iran could've moved the materials from there, no?

And Israel's intelligence apparatus is that fucking incompetent they didn't get eyes on those locations BEFORE making that knowledge public? You're grasping at straws.

 

[StueyDuck]

France and the UL have a plan to secure the strait without America…after the war ends, once all hostilities have ceased, with Iranian approval. Stunning and brave.

So basically, cower in the corner until there is a definitive winner and then drop on their knees and open mouth wide for papa so they can have a little hormuzzy before bed...

 

[ADiTAR]

Because the answer to those questions has no bearing on the fact Iran was attacked unprovoked and with ample forethought.

Unprovoked? Iran sponsored Hamas who launched an attack that killed Israelis and Americans. And other nations as well, the fact that the world is feckless to do anything about it is a sad reality.

The rest of your shit is basically BS, just say you think the regime should remain. At least have some spine left when you bend over.

And Israel's intelligence apparatus is that fucking incompetent they didn't get eyes on those locations BEFORE making that knowledge public? You're grasping at straws.

Clearly you have no idea how intelligence work, you first bring it behind the scenes, and Obama would've signed the deal regardless. Then Israel waited for a change in presidency.

I find it weird that every few days there's a new terrorist cock sucker in this thread.

 

[EviLore]

But Iran won the war. How come they aren't annihilating the blockade?

 

[Roni]

Unprovoked? Iran sponsored Hamas who launched an attack that killed Israelis and Americans. And other nations as well, the fact that the world is feckless to do anything about it is a sad reality.

The rest of your shit is basically BS, just say you think the regime should remain. At least have some spine left when you bend over.


Clearly you have no idea how intelligence work, you first bring it behind the scenes, and Obama would've signed the deal regardless. Then Israel waited for a change in presidency.

I find it weird that every few days there's a new terrorist cock sucker in this thread.

So both Iranian and Palestinian non-combatants need to either suffer or die because of their representatives' actions? Careful where that logic will take you, lest you'll start sounding like a supporter of terrorism.

And there's no BS, don't try accusing me of what you're doing: own the fact you're cheering on military action that will ultimately hurt innocent people you don't even know for god knows what reason.

Profit? Revenge? Power? Righteousness? Good old fashioned hate?

And don't come at me with this weak ass "you don't know how intelligence works" when you can't even conceive of using satellite imagery to keep tabs on a warehouse.

 

[EviLore]

The war has depowered and defunded Hezbollah sufficiently for the first peace talks in decades:

 

[ADiTAR]

So both Iranian and Palestinian non-combatants need to either suffer or die because of their representatives' actions? Careful where that logic will take you, lest you'll start sounding like a supporter of terrorism.

And there's no BS, don't try accusing me of what you're doing: own the fact you're cheering on military action that will ultimately hurt innocent people you don't even know for god knows what reason.

Profit? Revenge? Power? Righteousness? Good old fashioned hate?

And don't come at me with this weak ass "you don't know how intelligence works" when you can't even conceive of using satellite imagery to keep tabs on a warehouse.

Thats war. People suffer. So Israel should have just turn the other cheek after the Hamas attack?

I am cheering for military action, yes, finish the job. Hamas, Hezbollah, IRGC. For none of the stuff you mentioned, simple wipe them out before they wipe me out.

I have no idea what your last sentence even mean. Israel brought receipts that shows Iranians are faking it. Of course you believe Iraninas, thats a you problem.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Since this thread is obsessed with nukes, lets put it in perspective, a little (AI data)

-An estimated 40,000 to 75,000 people died instantly or by the end of 1945 following the atomic bombing of Nagasaki on August 9, 1945.

-As of early April 2026, the Gaza Health Ministryreports that over 72,000 Palestinians have been killed since October 7, 2023, with over 171,000 injured.

I dont have a point, just putting it out there.

 

[Roni]

Thats war. People suffer. So Israel should have just turn the other cheek after the Hamas attack?

Israel should've used its might and intelligence to target Hamas combatants with surgical action, as they have shown they're capable of.

I am cheering for military action, yes, finish the job. Hamas, Hezbollah, IRGC. For none of the stuff you mentioned, simple wipe them out before they wipe me out.

Fear then...

Israel brought receipts that shows Iranians are faking it.

You were told they brought receipts and you believed them. Not the first time this very century this has happened.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Since this thread is obsessed with nukes, lets put it in perspective, a little (AI data)

-An estimated 40,000 to 75,000 people died instantly or by the end of 1945 following the atomic bombing of Nagasaki on August 9, 1945.

-As of early April 2026, the Gaza Health Ministryreports that over 72,000 Palestinians have been killed since October 7, 2023, with over 171,000 injured.

I dont have a point, just putting it out there.

Interesting data. I got this when I checked your numbers with AI

It is estimated that between 150,000 and 246,000 people died in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the end of 1945.
Wikipedia
This death toll represented roughly 0.006% to 0.01% of the estimated 1945 global population of approximately 2.3 billion.
Wikipedia

Hiroshima and Nagasaki Death Tolls
The casualties include those who died instantly from the blast and heat, and those who succumbed to radiation poisoning and injuries in the following weeks and months.

• Hiroshima (Aug 6, 1945): Estimated 90,000–166,000 deaths.
• Nagasaki (Aug 9, 1945): Estimated 60,000–80,000 deaths.
  Wikipedia

Most victims were civilians.
Wikipedia

Percentage of Global Population

• World Population (1945): Approximately 2.3 billion.
• Total Deaths: ~200,000 (using a commonly cited combined estimate).

If Iran used a Nuke now it would be catastrophic. We can not let that happen.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Interesting data. I got this when I checked your numbers with AI

It is estimated that between 150,000 and 246,000 people died in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the end of 1945.
Wikipedia
This death toll represented roughly 0.006% to 0.01% of the estimated 1945 global population of approximately 2.3 billion.
Wikipedia

Hiroshima and Nagasaki Death Tolls
The casualties include those who died instantly from the blast and heat, and those who succumbed to radiation poisoning and injuries in the following weeks and months.

• Hiroshima (Aug 6, 1945): Estimated 90,000–166,000 deaths.
• Nagasaki (Aug 9, 1945): Estimated 60,000–80,000 deaths.
  Wikipedia

Most victims were civilians.
Wikipedia

Percentage of Global Population

• World Population (1945): Approximately 2.3 billion.
• Total Deaths: ~200,000 (using a commonly cited combined estimate).

If Iran used a Nuke now it would be catastrophic. We can not let that happen.

Russia - Ukraine war casualties are close to 2 million.

War with regular weapons can be catastrophic. Even without going nuclear.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Russia - Ukraine war casualties are close to 2 million.

War with regular weapons can be catastrophic. Even without going nuclear.

Awful

 

[winjer]

Russia - Ukraine war casualties are close to 2 million.

War with regular weapons can be catastrophic. Even without going nuclear.

But if both Russia and Ukraine were using nuclear weapons, the death toll would be in the 10's of millions.
We could be talking about numbers that rival WW2.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

But if both Russia and Ukraine were using nuclear weapons, the death toll would be in the 10's of millions.
We could be talking about numbers that rival WW2.

Am not sure if nuclear war will break out that easily. Between them.

Smaller conflict can chip away and become significant too.

 

[winjer]

Am not sure if nuclear war will break out that easily. Between them.

Smaller conflict can chip away and become significant too.

I also don't think that nuclear weapons will be used. They have become taboo, for good reason.
Mutual self destruction between 2 countries, or more, would be beyond catastrophic.

 

[Wildebeest]

The atomic bomb was used in war but a hydrogen bomb has never been used in war. They are much more powerful and deadly than a puny Hiroshima bomb and apparently can have wildly different characteristics when it comes to how "clean" they are. The "taboo" on their use has never been broken but taboos exist to be broken so we can all act surprised when they are.

 

[Madserb2023]

Russia - Ukraine war casualties are close to 2 million.

War with regular weapons can be catastrophic. Even without going nuclear.

Yes, but the war has been going on for 4 years. With a nuclear weapon you would get that in 4 minutes. I don't think people realize how much more powerful a nuclear weapon is to conventional weapons. A Tomahawk missile is equivalent to about 500kg of TNT. 1 megaton is about 1 billion tons of TNT. A single Russian merv from a SATAN missile is 20 megatons. Just think about it. Nuclear weapons are equivalent to millions of missiles being used at once.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I also don't think that nuclear weapons will be used. They have become taboo, for good reason.
Mutual self destruction between 2 countries, or more, would be beyond catastrophic.

I wouldn't rule them out entirely. There only so much bullshit a country can take. But Russia- Ukraine have managed.

Not sure where Iran is, currently. I wouldn't trust them with uranium at this point. As far as I am concerned, its gone too far.

This isn't something that will be easily forgotten either. Expect school textbooks written in Iran, especially the attack on girls school will be covered. I suspect Netanyahu will be covered in a big way. Truly historical stuff.

 

[Tams]

France and the UK have a plan to secure the strait without America…after the war ends, once all hostilities have ceased, with Iranian approval. Stunning and brave.

As predicted, they've had a conference where they discussed the obvious and came up with a 'solution' that is unrealistic and amounts to pretty much doing nothing.

And they wonder why the US administration aren't happy with Europe.

 

[Tams]

Since this thread is obsessed with nukes, lets put it in perspective, a little (AI data)

-An estimated 40,000 to 75,000 people died instantly or by the end of 1945 following the atomic bombing of Nagasaki on August 9, 1945.

-As of early April 2026, the Gaza Health Ministryreports that over 72,000 Palestinians have been killed since October 7, 2023, with over 171,000 injured.

I dont have a point, just putting it out there.

 

[poodaddy]

France and the UK have a plan to secure the strait without America…after the war ends, once all hostilities have ceased, with Iranian approval. Stunning and brave.

Why am I not surprised that the French came up with the daring plan of.....

'wait and see, and then maybe later we'll work something out with the terrorists and see what they wanna do.'

 

[Madserb2023]

As predicted, they've had a conference where they discussed the obvious and came up with a 'solution' that is unrealistic and amounts to pretty much doing nothing.

And they wonder why the US administration aren't happy with Europe.

It's the same with Ukraine and I'm from Europe. It's annoying. It's we will do something ie troops, but only after the war is over. If that's not bad enough, we don't know if actually we have enough troops to do it, and secondly Russia needs also to agree because they won't do it if Russia is going to attack which has been said repeatedly. Still waiting on those frozen assets. Taurus missiles etc. I have heard the loan has been delayed too. Oh yes, and we are increasing gas imports from Russia again...yay.

 

[Vlodril]

The us had the deal it wanted already. New president, did not like the previous president so he decided to remove the us from the deal. Now if they go the same deal they would be happy. Not only this is not 4dchess , the us administration can't even play checkers. Everything else is bullshit for internal distractions. Someone sold Trump an easy win a la Venezuela and he fucked half the world on it.

At this point there are no good solutions.

Edited to add that as a European, Europe is also handling this the worst way possible. That Europe had 0 balls was evident for a long time now (see how the handled both Ukraine and the financial crisis). They won't go all in with the Us (rightly i feel) but they also won't do what needs to be done if you don't want to stand with the US and decouple the whole bases infrastructure that allows the Us to project power in the region. They also show that the US was unreliable (depending on the President) and they talked a lot about a EU army and starting up production again etc but they ve done nothing. They always try to make the least amount of effort which hurts the union and the countries in it. Don't rock the boat doesn't help anyone.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I skimmed through this video and there is one thing that I can kind of agree on when you are dealing with a president like Trump. Europeans could potentially see the spin that he would attempt to say the US won by defeating Iran and then little old Europe couldnt even open the strait.

There is the potential that Trump TRIES to blame the failure on other countries for this current mess, so other countries kind of HAD to stay out of it becuase we are dealing with a president that wouldn't take one second to throw anyone else that he could under the bus and make the US look good. So in theory, he was trying to get europe to take over his mess. POTENTIALLY.

You just cant trust the guy, so Europe had to not get involved to potentially save face. I can see what the guy in the video is saying.

 

[winjer]

I skimmed through this video and there is one thing that I can kind of agree on when you are dealing with a president like Trump. Europeans could potentially see the spin that he would attempt to say the US won by defeating Iran and then little old Europe couldnt even open the strait.

There is the potential that Trump TRIES to blame the failure on other countries for this current mess, so other countries kind of HAD to stay out of it becuase we are dealing with a president that wouldn't take one second to throw anyone else that he could under the bus and make the US look good. So in theory, he was trying to get europe to take over his mess. POTENTIALLY.

You just cant trust the guy, so Europe had to not get involved to potentially save face. I can see what the guy in the video is saying.

That is one of the biggest issues with Trump right now, when criticizing Europe, he is not looking for a solution, he is looking for a scape goat for his screw up.

 

[Bojji]

So basically, cower in the corner until there is a definitive winner and then drop on their knees and open mouth wide for papa so they can have a little hormuzzy before bed...

As predicted, they've had a conference where they discussed the obvious and came up with a 'solution' that is unrealistic and amounts to pretty much doing nothing.

And they wonder why the US administration aren't happy with Europe.

But why should they get involved? What is the reason to put your soldiers lives at risk and losing millions of dollars?

To not be called cowards by Trump and people on X/forums? Even if they did anything Trump would forget about it 5 minutes later and drop more tariffs on Europe/another threat to Greenland, trying to please him always fails in the end.

Even if the mighty US navy can't do shit about Hormuz, what could other countries achieve? There are only two ways to do this, land invasion or making peace deal with Iran - right now the latter is more likely.

 

[DenchDeckard]

That is one of the biggest issues with Trump right now, when criticizing Europe, he is not looking for a solution, he is looking for a scape goat for his screw up.

Yeah, its kind of obvious why Europe is taking the current approach based on this.

 

[winjer]

Yeah, its kind of obvious why Europe is taking the current approach based on this.

There are other major issues. One is that Northern EU countries, such as the UK, are pressed for ships due to Russian constant attempts to sever underwater communication infrastructure.
So going to the Middle East with a lot of ships, could mean Europe going dark. Literally.

Defence secretary reveals month-long Russian submarine operation over cables and pipelines north of UK - live updates

John Healey says three Russian submarines left after being monitored "24/7" by UK forces, with no damage reported. He tells Vladimir Putin: "We see you."

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Baemono]

I really need to visit Amsterdam once before I get old.

The Dutchs are pretty litteral people, so even « hookers and weed » stuff is like « these are normal jobs and plants, what are you on about? »

 

[DenchDeckard]

I really need to visit Amsterdam once before I get old.

I went last year! amazing place - Make sure you visit Winkel 43 and get some apple pie!

Winkel 43: Famous Apple Pie Café at Noordermarkt, Amsterdam

Visit Winkel 43 in Amsterdam’s Jordaan for the famous apple pie, lunch, drinks or dinner. A classic café with a sunny terrace at Noordermarkt.

www.winkel43.nl

 

[Critical Hit]

due to Russian constant attempts to sever underwater communication infrastructure

Do you really believe you need more than a month and submarines for this?

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/chinese-ship-suspected-of-deliberately-dragging-anchor-for-100-miles-to-cut-baltic-cables-395f65d1

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-real-story-da24839c

 

[winjer]

Do you really believe you need more than a month and submarines for this?

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/chinese-ship-suspected-of-deliberately-dragging-anchor-for-100-miles-to-cut-baltic-cables-395f65d1

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-real-story-da24839c

It's not a matter of what you and I believe in, it's what the UK naval forces consider necessary.

 

[Madserb2023]

That is one of the biggest issues with Trump right now, when criticizing Europe, he is not looking for a solution, he is looking for a scape goat for his screw up.

No doubt, but my issue with Europe is that it's at the opposite end of the spectrum as it does nothing. It's like China in the 19th century. We currently have the US making bad decisions and Europe making no decisions and being weak at the same time. Whether the US says don't use the frozen Russian assets and Europe says that they will, but due to indecisiveness ends up doing nothing, the outcome is the same, but now you are perceived as weak. It's exactly what happened after 2014. Neville Chamberlain isn't held up in glory. If we follow a mistake by the US with agreeing to pay Iranian tolls then China will have no fear of doing the same around Taiwan as guess what, we are begging to pay it. People underestimate the consequences of weakness.

 

[winjer]

No doubt, but my issue with Europe is that it's at the opposite end of the spectrum as it does nothing. It's like China in the 19th century. We currently have the US making bad decisions and Europe making no decisions and being weak at the same time. Whether the US says don't use the frozen Russian assets and Europe says that they will, but due to indecisiveness ends up doing nothing, the outcome is the same, but now you are perceived as weak. It's exactly what happened after 2014. Neville Chamberlain isn't held up in glory. If we follow a mistake by the US with agreeing to pay Iranian tolls then China will have no fear of doing the same around Taiwan as guess what, we are begging to pay it. People underestimate the consequences of weakness.

Europe is still rebuilding it's military, that is it's main focus now. And finding alternative energy sources, after the Russian invasion.
The Russian frozen assets weren't blocked by EU's inactivity or by bureaucracy, but by Órban. Now that he is out of power, these things will go on much smoother.
Magyar has already stated that Hungary will vote for using the Russian frozen assets to assist Ukraine.
And remember that JV Vance was sent to Hungary to support Órban, so he could continue to sabotage the EU.

 

[Bojji]

It's not a matter of what you and I believe in, it's what the UK naval forces consider necessary.

What is funny is that in the video quoted several posts above - guy mentions USA not agreeing to SELLING (not giving, other EU countries would buy this) Ukraine anti missile rockets because they said they don't want to deplete their stock (with potential pacific conflict in mind).

Then USA just proceeded to deplete way more defense missiles in Iran conflict, make it make sense...

 

[Critical Hit]

It's not a matter of what you and I believe in, it's what the UK naval forces consider necessary.

Yes, but I was responding to your interpretation of it as "attempts to cut cables," even though it's essentially reconnaissance and a pressure, the same thing happens in the air https://milmag.pl/en/poland-and-france-intercepted-a-russian-il-20m-over-the-baltic-sea/ and on the ground.
A gradual return to the Cold War.

Then USA just proceeded to deplete way more defense missiles in Iran conflict, make it make sense...

Maybe they had the conflict in Iran in mind when they refused to sell?

 

[Madserb2023]

Europe is still rebuilding it's military, that is it's main focus now. And finding alternative energy sources, after the Russian invasion.
The Russian frozen assets weren't blocked by EU's inactivity or by bureaucracy, but by Órban. Now that he is out of power, these things will go on much smoother.
Magyar has already stated that Hungary will vote for using the Russian frozen assets to assist Ukraine.
And remember that JV Vance was sent to Hungary to support Órban, so he could continue to sabotage the EU.

My point is simple, whether it's due to bureaucracy, the outcome is the same. That's not an excuse. I am 99% sure rearmament will go slowly as a result of bureaucracy if not at all. After 2014 we did worse than nothing, we appeased the Russians and bought more gas off them. Germany carried on shutting nuclear power in 2015.They didn't even wene themselves off it. They pressed on harder. Now if Europe decided to build up it's military in 2014 instead and given the sort of 10 year time frame that repeatedly is mentioned, we would have done it by now. The Ukraine might not even have happened. We are only in this position because we did the opposite.

 

[Vestal]

The war can get rid of the regime. Just needs some resolve to do it.

Do you think CIA/MI6 needed the JCPOA or the fucking UN to infiltrate the regime? whaaat?

The war is not about regime change. It never was and even if it was they stopped talking about regime change within days of it starting.

How is the following a good outcome any different from the JCPOA?
The Mullahs and IRGC maintain control of Iran.
We are going to give Iran MONEY. Lots and lots of MONEY. (Reconstruction)
They are going to end up being able to enrich uranium while being monitored by US/UN forces. (If you don't believe this will happen, just wait)



To the bolded.. Do we have the enriched uranium? If the answer is no, then we could have had much better assets by having more access in the region. Building human intelligence and assets takes time, effort and access. Had we been on the ground legitimately in Iran for 10 years we would have a treasure trove of not just information but human assets.

 

[winjer]

Yes, but I was responding to your interpretation of it as "attempts to cut cables," even though it's essentially reconnaissance and a pressure, the same thing happens in the air https://milmag.pl/en/poland-and-france-intercepted-a-russian-il-20m-over-the-baltic-sea/ and on the ground.
A gradual return to the Cold War.

You do realize that Europe is living it's biggest war, since WW2. This is not a joke.
And Russia is constantly probing and pressuring EU members with side attacks. Be it cutting cables, hacking, airspace and maritime invasions, political propaganda, etc.
All at a time when the USA removed most of it's aid to Ukraine. So the Eu does not have the capability to fight 2 major global wars at the same time, while fighting to correct it's energy policy.

 

[Bojji]

Yes, but I was responding to your interpretation of it as "attempts to cut cables," even though it's essentially reconnaissance and a pressure, the same thing happens in the air https://milmag.pl/en/poland-and-france-intercepted-a-russian-il-20m-over-the-baltic-sea/ and on the ground.
A gradual return to the Cold War.


Maybe they had the conflict in Iran in mind when they refused to sell?

Yeah, that could be it. But this (in theory) allows China to face less resistance if they decide to attack Taiwan (until USA replenishes its stockpiles).

My point is simple, whether it's due to bureaucracy, the outcome is the same. That's not an excuse. I am 99% sure rearmament will go slowly as a result of bureaucracy if not at all. After 2014 we did worse than nothing, we appeased the Russians and bought more gas off them. Germany carried on shutting nuclear power in 2015.They didn't even wene themselves off it. They pressed on harder. Now if Europe decided to build up it's military in 2014 instead and given the sort of 10 year time frame that repeatedly is mentioned, we would have done it by now. The Ukraine might not even have happened. We are only in this position because we did the opposite.

Both USA and Europe should have way stronger response to Crimea and "green men" (totally not Russians) fighting in eastern Ukraine since 2014. Maybe this conflict could have been avoided...

 

[poppabk]

There are other major issues. One is that Northern EU countries, such as the UK, are pressed for ships due to Russian constant attempts to sever underwater communication infrastructure.
So going to the Middle East with a lot of ships, could mean Europe going dark. Literally.

Defence secretary reveals month-long Russian submarine operation over cables and pipelines north of UK - live updates

John Healey says three Russian submarines left after being monitored "24/7" by UK forces, with no damage reported. He tells Vladimir Putin: "We see you."

www.bbc.co.uk

Also they are having to help protect other shipping lanes:

Combined Task Force 151 Deters Piracy Off Somali Coast

MANAMA, Bahrain – The Combined Maritime Forces (CMF), through Combined Task Force 151 (CTF 151), provided criticalsupport to European Union Naval Force (EUNAVFOR) Operatio…

combinedmaritimeforces.com

 

[ADiTAR]

The war is not about regime change. It never was and even if it was they stopped talking about regime change within days of it starting.

How is the following a good outcome any different from the JCPOA?
The Mullahs and IRGC maintain control of Iran.
We are going to give Iran MONEY. Lots and lots of MONEY. (Reconstruction)
They are going to end up being able to enrich uranium while being monitored by US/UN forces. (If you don't believe this will happen, just wait)

My assumption is that the war would resume. US red line so far is no nuclear. Which is not what the jcpoa was. The same talks were held in jan-feb and eventually led to the war. The IRGC will not bend.

To the bolded.. Do we have the enriched uranium? If the answer is no, then we could have had much better assets by having more access in the region. Building human intelligence and assets takes time, effort and access. Had we been on the ground legitimately in Iran for 10 years we would have a treasure trove of not just information but human assets.

Even om the ground assets wont be able to extract the uranium. It needs a special opp.

Israel has an amazing on the ground human assets. The intelligence is really amazing considering how much we killed off their people in hiding.

But again, taking out the uranium is something else. Info doesn't require physical presence like an opp like that.

 

[Critical Hit]

You do realize that Europe is living it's biggest war, since WW2. This is not a joke.

It's not Europe, but its border. And this is no joke because Russia is using pressure to limit Europe's aid to Ukraine, and it's succeeding.
By the way, you posted some information here (a source that appears to have been Ukraine) claiming that Russia is supplying satellite data to Iran. The FT reports that this isn't entirely accurate https://www.ft.com/content/1fddd2cd-1294-4e9c-a17d-5ea06b399355?syn-25a6b1a6=1
The article is behind a paywall, so here's a summary from TOI

Iran used a Chinese spy satellite it secretly bought in 2024 to target US bases in the current war, the Financial Times reported Wednesday.

The TEE-01B satellite, built and launched by Chinese company Earth Eye Co, was acquired by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps' Aerospace Force in late 2024 after it was launched into space from China, the report said, citing leaked Iranian military documents.
The Iranian military commanders directed the satellite to monitor major US military sites, the newspaper said, citing time-stamped coordinate lists, satellite imagery and orbital analysis. The images were taken in March before and after drone and missile strikes on those locations, FT said.
As part of the deal, the IRGC received access to commercial ground stations operated by Emposat, a Beijing-based provider of satellite control and data services provider with a network extending across Asia, Latin America and other regions, according to the report.
The satellite captured images of Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia on March 13, 14 and 15, FT said. On March 14, US President Donald Trump confirmed US planes at the base had been hit.
According to the report, the satellite also monitored Muwaffaq Salti Air Base in Jordan and locations close to the US Fifth Fleet naval base in Manama, Bahrain, and Erbil airport, Iraq, around the time of IRGC-claimed attacks on facilities in those areas.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-used-chinese-spy-satellite-to-target-us-military-bases-in-middle-east-report/

But this (in theory) allows China to face less resistance if they decide to attack Taiwan (until USA replenishes its stockpiles).

Yes, I've mentioned that now is the perfect time for China to invade Taiwan. If they aren't doing so, then they probably don't need it as much as they claim.

 

[Idleyes]

hese consequences evidently were not enough to constrain the attempt to prevent the unacceptable threat. I'm asking why it would have been better to delay what is happening now until the threat progressed to your 'imminent' stage (which you won't define in this case for whatever reason) before addressing it? Iran's ability to retaliate won't magically have disappeared then, except then they are 'imminently' able to retaliate with a nuclear weapon.

This is where you're pivoting. I never denied that consequences constrain behavior exists, I acknowledge that. That's a different discussion entirely. We were talking about how international law sets an evidence-based standard for using force, and you've shifted it to real-world consequences instead of addressing that point. Nice try.

 

[winjer]

It's not Europe, but its border. And this is no joke because Russia is using pressure to limit Europe's aid to Ukraine, and it's succeeding.
By the way, you posted some information here (a source that appears to have been Ukraine) claiming that Russia is supplying satellite data to Iran. The FT reports that this isn't entirely accurate https://www.ft.com/content/1fddd2cd-1294-4e9c-a17d-5ea06b399355?syn-25a6b1a6=1
The article is behind a paywall, so here's a summary from TOI

https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-used-chinese-spy-satellite-to-target-us-military-bases-in-middle-east-report/

Yes, I've mentioned that now is the perfect time for China to invade Taiwan. If they aren't doing so, then they probably don't need it as much as they claim.

The info has already been corroborated by several US military officers, active and non-active.
One of the most public was Ben Hodges, former US Commander and now military analyst.
It has also been corroborated by several EU Intel officers.
So everyone knows about this and has confirmation. The only ones that refuse it is the Trump administration, because it has several Russian insiders.

 

[adamsapple]

Please send someone else, not Vance, this time.

 

[winjer]

Please send someone else, not Vance, this time.

Seriously, Trump has been saying it will be over soon, for so many weeks....
At this point I will only believe it when I see it.

 

[Idleyes]

I think he's right that Iran has used lethal force against protesters. Reliable information is hard to verify because of restrictions and blackouts, but there's consistent reporting and a clear track record of the regime responding to protests with extreme force.

 

[Boo Who?]

As predicted, they've had a conference where they discussed the obvious and came up with a 'solution' that is unrealistic and amounts to pretty much doing nothing.

And they wonder why the US administration aren't happy with Europe.

Are there a bigger group of pussies that pose as "leaders" than the European leaders? Talk, talk, talk. That is all they do. I know our leaders here in the states are a piece of work as well, but holy shit, I will take them 10 times out of 10 over the spineless fucktards that Europe put up.