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Monster Hunter Generations |OT| Generation X

F

Faiz

Member
Helacious said:
It's a play on word that was missed by the original translation team. I know kira means killer and kirakira means glitter.
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Given that it's an apparent play on words, I'm not sure one or the other could be called definitively correct. Could've easily recognized the play, and just decided to go with the "killer" since it was in katakana.

Unless of course the original team has gone on record...
 
S

Seil

Member
Ohnonono said:
So it looks like the crafting system is new? How does the level up stuff work?
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Every weapon can now be leveled up to a final form, meaning every weapon can technically be a final tier weapon. But that doesn't mean they're all great in the end.

Also, upgrades will generally require you level the base weapon up a certain number of times to access. Like the Poison Axe requires a Level 2 Bone Tabar

Sometimes, items will require a general item type instead of, or alongside, specific materials. For example, Ore. In which case, you'd need to use a number of Iron Ore, or Machalite Ore, etc, with different ore having different point values.
 
S

SpiceMelange

Member
Faiz said:
Given that it's an apparent play on words, I'm not sure one or the other could be called definitively correct. Could've easily recognized the play, and just decided to go with the "killer" since it was in katakana.

Unless of course the original team has gone on record...
Click to expand...

I would agree with you if it wasnt for the description of the item
 
K

kuroneko0509

Member
not sure if i should start bothering with palico... at which village rank minimum should i be bother with it?
Faiz said:
Given that it's an apparent play on words, I'm not sure one or the other could be called definitively correct. Could've easily recognized the play, and just decided to go with the "killer" since it was in katakana.

Unless of course the original team has gone on record...
Click to expand...

have a feeling different people did the item name translations and item descriptions originally, so the one who did the former didn't catch the wordplay
edit: also, item names are only in katakana & kanji in this game iinm, and there's no kanji for きらきら ok i'm wrong about this one
 
S

Seil

Member
Helacious said:
I would agree with you if it wasnt for the description of the item
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Except you can choose to use the Killer part of the play on words as the name, while maintaining the description. If you go the Shiny route, you entirely lose the Killer part of said play on words. Recognizing that it's a play on words validates using Killer, if anything.
 
S

SpiceMelange

Member
Seil said:
Except you can choose to use the Killer part of the play on words as the name, while maintaining the description. If you go the Shiny route, you entirely lose the Killer part of said play on words. Recognizing that it's a play on words validates using Killer, if anything.
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It wouldn't make sense in the english version to point out the insect is glittering when it's called killer beetle, not mentioning how exactly it's a "killer" beetle. Choosing shiny over killer makes much more sense for the english translation as the title correlates to the description.
 
F

Faiz

Member
Helacious said:
I would agree with you if it wasnt for the description of the item
Click to expand...

Description is just what makes the word play work though, right? I mean, that kind of pun needs to be anchored in something - in this case it seems like the intention was killer, but "hey it would be funny to make it a shining glittery beetle and then spell the foreign word like our word for shiny/gleaming/glittery."

/shrug. Just my take on it. I don't think either way is wrong, and I can see why someone would choose to translate it to shiny given the description.
 
K

kuroneko0509

Member
Faiz said:
Description is just what makes the word play work though, right? I mean, that kind of pun needs to be anchored in something - in this case it seems like the intention was killer, but "hey it would be funny to make it a shining glittery beetle and then spell the foreign word like our word for shiny/gleaming/glittery."

/shrug. Just my take on it. I don't think either way is wrong, and I can see why someone would choose to translate it to shiny given the description.
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eh i dunno. if i'm the one who is in charge of the item and its description, why would i name something then proceed to do a description that ignores the name context
 
S

SpiceMelange

Member
Faiz said:
Description is just what makes the word play work though, right? I mean, that kind of pun needs to be anchored in something - in this case it seems like the intention was killer, but "hey it would be funny to make it a shining glittery beetle and then spell the foreign word like our word for shiny/gleaming/glittery."

/shrug. Just my take on it. I don't think either way is wrong, and I can see why someone would choose to translate it to shiny given the description.
Click to expand...

It's a pun on killer for the japanese version, but keeping a similar pun on the English version would be hard if not impossible, so they wisely chose to drop the pun and name the beetle to was what it's actually referred to instead of the direct word for word translation which makes no sense (name and description didn't match in the previous games because of that).
 
H

Herb Alpert

Banned
Daft Punk said:
Silly question, but if I did 1* quests online with randoms, does it check off the quest at the Quest Girl?
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yes, there's only the urgent quests that you have to pick yourself to have them ticked.

who wants to join me for a few 2* quests? id is 39 6297 3757 8517, code is 0307
edit again, sorry, I had to shut that room, I'm in a few minutes...
 
S

Seil

Member
kuroneko0509 said:
eh i dunno. if i'm the one who is in charge of the item and its description, why would i name something then proceed to do a description that ignores the name context
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Because then you, and people that know the Japanese situation, recognize the potential nod to the wordplay. And everyone else doesn't give a shit, because no one cared until now =p

If we wanna talk about dumb localization choices, better things would be for example....

Dead Eye creates the Shot Booster skill

But there's also Deadeye which unlocks the Deadeye Soul skill

Good job guys, why do skill points and skill names have to be so unnecessarily confusing. The second one is fine, it's for Deadeye Garuga, but why couldn't they have used literally anything else for Shot Boosters points? Especially when the latter exists.

Edit: At this point, maybe having dumb, confusing armor skill stuff is a running joke for localization, I dunno x.x
 
S

SpiceMelange

Member
Seil said:
Because then you, and people that know the Japanese situation, recognize the potential nod to the wordplay. And everyone else doesn't give a shit, because no one cared until now =p

If we wanna talk about dumb localization choices, better things would be for example....

Dead Eye creates the Shot Booster skill

But there's also Deadeye which unlocks the Deadeye Soul skill

Good job guys, why do skill points and skill names have to be so unnecessarily confusing. The second one is fine, it's for Deadeye Garuga, but why couldn't they have used literally anything else for Shot Boosters points? Especially when the latter exists.
Click to expand...

Saying "everyone else doesn't give a shit" to defend an item name that doesn't make sense because they missed the actual reference isn't a very good argument
 
S

Seil

Member
Helacious said:
Saying "everyone else doesn't give a shit" to defend an item name that doesn't make sense because they missed the actual reference isn't a very good argument
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When your argument relies on the assumption they missed it, it's not really any better.
 
S

SpiceMelange

Member
Seil said:
When your argument relies on the assumption they missed it, it's not really any better.
Click to expand...

This thread explains how those two words are linked by having the same kira, it explained how the description and title doesnt match at all, and we saw they changed the name for the lastest game to the actual reference which matches the description. I think my argument is better tyvm.
 
S

Seil

Member
Helacious said:
This thread explains how those two words are linked by having the same kira, it explained how the description and title doesnt match at all, and we saw they changed the name for the lastest game. I think my argument is better tyvm.
Click to expand...

Err, I've been part of the discussion, even backing up why Shiny works. And the wordplay involved.

And that's exactly why I'm saying they very well could have known and used Killer anyway, because I could see myself doing so.

I'm of the opinion that changing it to Shiny has resulted in losing something.
 
P

perorist

Unconfirmed Member
kuroneko0509 said:
not sure if i should start bothering with palico... at which village rank minimum should i be bother with it?


have a feeling different people did the item name translations and item descriptions originally, so the one who did the former didn't catch the wordplay
edit: also, item names are only in katakana & kanji in this game iinm, and there's no kanji for きらきら ok i'm wrong about this one
Click to expand...
Unfortunately palico quests unlock farm stuff. I just did them until I unlocked honey for farming then stopped.
 
F

Faiz

Member
kuroneko0509 said:
eh i dunno. if i'm the one who is in charge of the item and its description, why would i name something then proceed to do a description that ignores the name context
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the Japanese name or the English name?

Helacious said:
It's a pun on killer for the japanese version, but keeping a similar pun on the English version would be hard if not impossible, so they wisely chose to drop the pun and name the beetle to was what it's actually referred to instead of the direct word for word translation which makes no sense (name and description didn't match in the previous games because of that).
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand your take on it. I said I get why they went with it. I even acknowleged the difficulty of maintaining that kind of pun. I'm not sure why you are still arguing against me, other than I haven't said, and won't say, "you are completely correct".
 
S

SpiceMelange

Member
Seil said:
Err, I've been part of the discussion, even backing up why Shiny works. And the wordplay involved.

And that's exactly why I'm saying they very well could have known and used Killer anyway, because I could see myself doing so.

I'm of the opinion that changing it to Shiny has resulted in losing something.
Click to expand...

Using killer makes no sense in the English version, you can have your nostalgia but it's not a better word for the English version. It does not make sense.
 
S

Seil

Member
Helacious said:
Using killer makes no sense in the English version, you can have your nostalgia but it's not a better word for the English version. It does not make sense.
Click to expand...

It's not about nostalgia, it's about recognizing that the wordplay existed and naming it Killer Beetle keeps the killer part of said wordplay. Someone that knows the wordplay existed can recognize both why Killer is there and the dazzling wings comment. Someone that doesn't is none the wiser. There's an extra layer there when Killer is used, when it's entirely one dimensional when Shiny is used.

Both of our arguments rely on assumptions. Yours on the assumption they didn't notice it, mine on the assumption they did and chose to use Killer anyway.

But the end results of Killer are still superior, imo, even if they did miss it.
 
S

SpiceMelange

Member
Seil said:
It's not about nostalgia, it's about recognizing that the wordplay existed and naming it Killer Beetle keeps the killer part of said wordplay. Someone that knows the wordplay existed can recognize both why Killer is there and the dazzling wings comment. Someone that doesn't is none the wiser. There's an extra layer there when Killer is used, when it's entirely one dimensional when Shiny is used.

Both of our arguments rely on assumptions. Yours on the assumption they didn't notice it, mine on the assumption they did and chose to use Killer anyway.

But the end results of Killer are still superior, imo, even if they did miss it.
Click to expand...

You really think it's more probable than they went to make a nod for the very very small subset of english-japanese speaker for a pun when the item makes no sense over the fact that the previous games just directly translated the kata? Especially when they did not keep this? Whatever rocks your boat. If the kanas were different or they would have been more examples of items with this situation I would've you some credits but that's just funny.
 
K

kuroneko0509

Member
perorist said:
Unfortunately palico quests unlock farm stuff. I just did them until I unlocked honey for farming then stopped.
Click to expand...
welp
Faiz said:
Are you talking about the Japanese name or the English name?



Yes, I understand your take on it. I said I get why they went with it. I even acknowleged the difficulty of maintaining that kind of pun. I'm not sure why you are still arguing against me, other than I haven't said, and won't say, "you are completely correct".
Click to expand...

both i guess? looking at kiranico the description is pretty much the same for jp & eng

as for that dead-eye and dead eye... that one is confusing for sure
 
S

Seil

Member
Helacious said:
You really think it's more probable than they want to make a nod for the very very small subset of english-japanese speaker for a pun when the item makes no sense over the fact that the previous games just directly translated the kata? Especially when they did not keep this? Whatever rocks your boat.
Click to expand...

How does the item not make sense? Any normal person would just read that it's a Killer Beetle that has dazzling wings. Being described as having dazzling wings doesn't somehow take away from it being a Killer Beetle.

It doesn't seem weird until you know the context of kira to begin with. Only people that knew about it would be having an argument over which is more valid.

Edit: Like, there are tons of things I hate about MH localization. But this is one thing I actually think was better how it was before, because like I said, even if it was unintentional, it added something.
 
S

SpiceMelange

Member
Seil said:
How does the item not make sense? Any normal person would just read that it's a Killer Beetle that has dazzling wings. Being described as having dazzling wings doesn't somehow take away from it being a Killer Beetle.

It doesn't seem weird until you know the context of kira to begin with. Only people that knew about it would be having an argument over which is more valid.

Edit: Like, there are tons of things I hate about MH localization. But this is one thing I actually think was better how it was before, because like I said, even if it was unintentional, it added something.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying the word killer beetle makes litterally no sense, but shiny is the better localization of the two and I've explained why. You may prefer the name killer but that's not the better localization. Give me some examples of other items in MH that has this situation of intentional english-japanese pun as atm your argument that it wasnt a direct translation without context but an intentional one is very strawman.
 
K

Kard8p3

Member
Let's say I level up a weapon to lvl 4, but decide I wanted the branch off upgrade at level 3, can I change my lvl 4 weapon to that, or do I need to craft an entirely new weapon?
 
S

Seil

Member
Kard8p3 said:
Let's say I level up a weapon to lvl 4, but decide I wanted the branch off upgrade at level 3, can I change my lvl 4 weapon to that, or do I need to craft an entirely new weapon?
Click to expand...

You can change it, but you won't be compensated for the extra level.
 
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