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[RetroGamingUK]

September 3, 1996 Virtua Fighter Kids
November 21, 1996 Championship Circuit Edition

They wasted a lot of time and money remaking the same * games, they were idiots. It's impressive that they've made it this far. In a just world, they would never have existed as a company.

Insane logic

Name another publisher who has released games as good as this in a single year...

Virtua Fighter 2 (January)
Sega Rally (January)
Panzer Dragoon Zwei (May)
Baku Baku Animal (June)
Athlete Kings (August)
NiGHTS: into Dreams (August)
Sega Worldwide Soccer 97 (October)
Fighting Vipers (October)
Virtua Cop 2 (November)
Virtual On: Cyber Troopers (December)

I think a good 3D Sonic on top of all that would give Sega a huge boost at the end of the year.

 

[Fluffytheterrible]

The lack of 3D Sonic is what most people remember the Saturn for.

Which is a shame. As the Japanese lineup was stellar.

 

[cireza]

That was basically the point in which I decided to sell my Saturn.

So you sold your Saturn when Shining Force III, Panzer Dragoon Saga and Burning Rangers were coming ? Wow, amazing move

 

[RetroGamingUK]

The lack of 3D Sonic is what most people remember the Saturn for.

Which is a shame. As the Japanese lineup was stellar.

Sega really went from milking Sonic (so many MegaDrive, Master System and GameGear) games to barely doing anything with him.

Virtua Fighter took over as Sega's darling and instead we got...

Virtua Fighter
Virtua Fighter Remix
Virtua Fighter 2
Virtua Fighter 2 (MegaDrive)
Virtua Fighter (GameGear)
Virtua Fighter Kids
Fighters MegaMix

...all in the space of 24 months.

 

[Ozzie666]

The lack of 3D Sonic is what most people remember the Saturn for.

Which is a shame. As the Japanese lineup was stellar.

I remember it for it's charming use of mesh. In the beginning I didn't understand fully why, I just played the games and was spoiled to own all 3 systems. Each system had a it's strengths and games.

The lack of Sonic funnily enough never bothered me. I think the storm of CPS2 RAM cart games and Sega Arcade hit's made me forget.

Truth be told, Sega of Japan didn't deserve Sonic, Japan didn't care about him too much until much later.

I still think one of the reasons why was jealously. Even though Sonic was created by Japanese developers, it was adopted by Sonic Technical Institute and 2/3/Knuckles? made in the USA. Mind you Sonic CD was a Japanese production and it was amazing.

Maybe it was just Naka acting like a child or he never forgave Mark Cerny.

 

[Fluffytheterrible]

It's so weird that Virtua Fighter 2 was released on Mega Drive of all places. Not even in Japan, too. Sega was making too many weird decisions. And it cost them.

 

[cireza]

Virtua Fighter took over as Sega's darling and instead we got...

Virtua Fighter
Virtua Fighter Remix
Virtua Fighter 2
Virtua Fighter 2 (MegaDrive)
Virtua Fighter (GameGear)
Virtua Fighter Kids
Fighters MegaMix

...all in the space of 24 months.

The number of games was definitely stupid.

I liked the MegaDrive port, it was pretty impressive. Otherwise on Saturn, the only game I picked was Fighters Megamix and all others were useless, as far as I am concerned. I can understand people liking VF2 because it was so impressive, but Fighters Megamix was much more fun and had more content.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

The number of games was definitely stupid.

I liked the MegaDrive port, it was pretty impressive. Otherwise on Saturn, the only game I picked was Fighters Megamix and all others were useless, as far as I am concerned. I can understand people liking VF2 because it was so impressive, but Fighters Megamix was much more fun and had more content.

Couldn't abide the music resetting between rounds in Fighters Megamix, and that game had some banging tunes, especially a minute into a lot of the tracks.

Huge graphical downgrade compared to VF2 too.

 

[cireza]

Couldn't abide the music resetting between rounds in Fighters Megamix, and that game had some banging tunes, especially a minute into a lot of the tracks.

Huge graphical downgrade compared to VF2 too.

Music resetting is annoying but it's pretty minor. I preferred the visuals in Fighters Megamix, I liked the lighting and the destructible walls and armors.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

Insane logic

Name another publisher who has released games as good as this in a single year...

Virtua Fighter 2 (January)
Sega Rally (January)
Panzer Dragoon Zwei (May)
Baku Baku Animal (June)
Athlete Kings (August)
NiGHTS: into Dreams (August)
Sega Worldwide Soccer 97 (October)
Fighting Vipers (October)
Virtua Cop 2 (November)
Virtual On: Cyber Troopers (December)

I think a good 3D Sonic on top of all that would give Sega a huge boost at the end of the year.

I remember the Sega soccer game being pretty good, though '97 sounds newer than the one I had.

Panzer Dragoon was an okay rail shooter but who wouldn't rather play Warhawk and not feel like an on-rails bot?

Baku Baku? Some fucking Match 3 shit? Nobody cared about that on their 32-bit console, c'mon now friend.

I don't know how things work in the UK, but over here in the good ol' USA we take one look at Nights:

And go

As for the rest, some of these are decent but most of the list is arcade stuff that just isn't meaty enough to form the backbone of your home console.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

...

Sega Worldwide Soccer 97 was very good for 1996, especially with regards to animation, though it did feel sluggish to control. They released a sequel in late 97 which added clubs and a few tweaks, by then there were much better footie games on rival platforms.

Panzer Dragoon Zwei, yeah gameplay was basic, for me it's more about the art style and killer soundtrack, which why I'm dismayed by the look of the remake.

NiGHTS: into Dreams, similar to PD Zwei it's very much a vibe game, I absolutely love it, but I can see why most people took a look at it and thought "not for me". Sonic Team really should have released a 3D Sonic game instead, NiGHTS could've come later.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

NiGHTS: into Dreams, similar to PD Zwei it's very much a vibe game, I absolutely love it, but I can see why most people took a look at it and thought "not for me". Sonic Team really should have released a 3D Sonic game instead, NiGHTS could've come later.

The other thing with that game is it felt like you needed to grab the special analog controller for it. I don't really recall how much the bundle cost, but I wasn't really that excited about getting a 1 game controller (though I'm sure others supported it).

To be fair, I don't think I ever got the DualShock for my PlayStation either, but that was largely due to moving on to 3D accelerators on PC. Final Fantasy VII was probably my last hurrah for my PlayStation. Though a few years later (after PS2 release) I knocked out some proper DualShock-era gaming on a college roommate's modded PSX. Tony Hawk especially.

I'm not much of a Sonic scholar, played the first one all the way through back in the day and can't say I played any of them longer than a few minutes after that. If they could make it work in 3D on Saturn that would have surely been a big boost.

But really they just needed to calm down with the arcade ports, or at least reworked them for home release a little more. Virtual On was one of my last Saturn purchases... and of course that's another one where it's got some fucking controller that makes it better that isn't even sold in my town even if I could justify shelling out my allowance on extra controllers instead of games. You load up the damn game and go to pick your character, and there's a fucking timer counting down because they don't want you sitting on the character select screen in the arcade except you're at fucking home. Then you go to fight the other robot in a tiny arena with a timer... aaaand meanwhile I also got Twisted Metal which isn't entirely dissimilar but the main thing is it feels like a game designed for you to play at home.

Sega's awesome arcade lineup was great in the arcade, but those games weighed down and helped to sink Saturn.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

...

Virtual On really needed the following...

- dual analogue controller
- adventure mode (large levels with multiple enemies)

Namco would have delivered these things, I think Sega were under pressure to get games out due to third party support lacking.

Dreamcast was different though...

- Sega Rally 10 year championship
- Crazy Taxi crazy box mode
- Virtua Tennis world tour mode

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

Virtual On really needed the following...

- dual analogue controller
- story mode
- adventure mode (large levels with multiple enemies)

Namco would have delivered these things, I think Sega were under pressure to get games out due to third party support lacking.

Dreamcast was different though...

- Sega Rally 10 year championship
- Crazy Taxi crazy box mode
- Virtua Tennis world tour mode

That all sounds good on the Dreamcast side... and actually my god did I love Virtua Tennis which I had for PC, 10/10 game... but I don't think the analysis of why Dreamcast failed will be too taxing. People like me had enough of buying shit from Sega only to have them drop support. I skipped 32x, but between Sega CD and Saturn, I was going to wait for PS2 and that's that. So it sounds like maybe they did learn their lessons and it was just too damn late. Well, shit, I can empathize with that.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

That all sounds good on the Dreamcast side... and actually my god did I love Virtua Tennis which I had for PC, 10/10 game... but I don't think the analysis of why Dreamcast failed will be too taxing. People like me had enough of buying shit from Sega only to have them drop support. I skipped 32x, but between Sega CD and Saturn, I was going to wait for PS2 and that's that. So it sounds like maybe they did learn their lessons and it was just too damn late. Well, shit, I can empathize with that.

Dreamcast's failure was a self fulfilling prophecy

Everyone I showed my Dreamcast off to loved it, but when I asked if they'd be buying one they always said "nah, Sega will drop it after a few years".

Sega dropped it because these people didn't buy it.

It sold well initially to Sega fans, but sales dropped off quickly.

It did even worse in Japan, despite the Sega brand being healthy there off the back of Saturn. You'd have thought the Japanese would have lapped it up as it came with the latest Virtua Fighter.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Fighters Megamix was amazing. VF2 was more technically sound, but i never found it that much fun to actually play. Matches were over in the blink of an eye.

Megamix was easier to play, and the roster was great. Essentially you got the then still arcade exclusive VF3 versions of Akira, and Aoi was even in the game but her moveset inherited by Janet Marshal (Virtua Cop). Hell, you could play as the Hornet car. You could choose your arcade ladder too, and for a Saturn fighter it actually had a decent amount of content and unlockables.

I loved this game.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Fighters Megamix was amazing. VF2 was more technically sound, but i never found it that much fun to actually play. Matches were over in the blink of an eye.

Megamix was easier to play, and the roster was great. Essentially you got the then still arcade exclusive VF3 versions of Akira, and Aoi was even in the game but her moveset inherited by Janet Marshal (Virtua Cop). Hell, you could play as the Hornet car. You could choose your arcade ladder too, and for a Saturn fighter it actually had a decent amount of content and unlockables.

I loved this game.

Another screw up by Sega, just look at the roster (image below), they should have included...

- Sonic
- Knuckles
- Joe Musashi (Shinobi)
- Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)

Instead we got...

- "Siba"
- some made up Sonic Fighters characters
- a pickle in a sombraro

Such a wasted opportunity

 

[SkylineRKR]

animations were pretty fucking impressive, this is next to model 3.

Another screw up by Sega, just look at the roster (image below), they should have included...

- Sonic
- Knuckles
- Joe Musashi (Shinobi)
- Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)

Instead we got...

- "Siba"
- some made up Sonic Fighters characters
- a pickle in a sombraro

Such a wasted opportunity

They kind copied over from Sonic the Fighters and for some reason didn't want to include Sonic and Knuckles. Axel or Joe Musashi they would need to design from scratch and to be honest I didn't really thought about them when this game came out. Siba is a prototype VF1 character, it has all the reason to be there.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

They kind copied over from Sonic the Fighters and for some reason didn't want to include Sonic and Knuckles. Axel or Joe Musashi they would need to design from scratch and to be honest I didn't really thought about them when this game came out. Siba is a prototype VF1 character, it has all the reason to be there.

For me it's just another case of Saturn being too Japanese centric.

It was a great opportunity to appeal to MegaDrive fans with familiar characters, imagine people turning their heads when they see Streets of Rage and Altered Beast characters on the box art.

Instead Rent a Hero was more important.

Idiots.

 

[Team Andromeda]

For me it's just another case of Saturn being too Japanese centric.

It was a great opportunity to appeal to MegaDrive fans with familiar characters, imagine people turning their heads when they see Streets of Rage and Altered Beast characters on the box art.
Be free t
Instead Rent a Hero was more important.

Idiots.

That's bring silly. It's hardly the system fault you had Muppets at SEGA America., much the same happened for the PC Engine in America and westerns also turned their back on Streets Of Rage , Streets Of Rage 3 sold like shit.

The market for 2D scrolling beat them ups was in decline,even in the Arcades. To SEGAs credit they made one of the best 3D ones with Die Hard Arcade. That game never gets the credit it should and also for it's amazing graphics

 

[RetroGamingUK]

That's bring silly. It's hardly the system fault you had Muppets at SEGA America., much the same happened for the PC Engine in America and westerns also turned their back on Streets Of Rage , Streets Of Rage 3 sold like shit.

The market for 2D scrolling beat them ups was in decline,even in the Arcades. To SEGAs credit they made one of the best 3D ones with Die Hard Arcade. That game never gets the credit it should and also for it's amazing graphics

It's a shame that beat 'em ups practically died for a long time.

I really enjoyed Dynamite Cop and wondered what a 3D beat em up would be like with a bigger budget, it's a shame The Bouncer on PS2 was such a let down outside of graphics and we never got a Dreamcast port of SpikeOut.

Who knows, Streets of Rage 4 was great (as a 2D beat em up), maybe Streets of Rage Revolution will be the revival the genre needs.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Insane logic

Name another publisher who has released games as good as this in a single year...

Virtua Fighter 2 (January)
Sega Rally (January)
Panzer Dragoon Zwei (May)
Baku Baku Animal (June)
Athlete Kings (August)
NiGHTS: into Dreams (August)
Sega Worldwide Soccer 97 (October)
Fighting Vipers (October)
Virtua Cop 2 (November)
Virtual On: Cyber Troopers (December)

I think a good 3D Sonic on top of all that would give Sega a huge boost at the end of the year.

I don't like these games, I don't think any of them are good enough despite the graphics (unfortunately Sega was not in a good creative phase back then) The best Sega Saturn games are RE1, Dark Savior, PowerSlave, Street Fighter Alpha series, MK Trilogy, Radiant Silvergun, Guardian Heroes, Duke Nukem 3D, Rayman and Grandia.

 

[cireza]

The other thing with that game is it felt like you needed to grab the special analog controller for it.

Nah, never used much this controller. I think its usefulness was totally exaggerated.

Nights is awesome though, I keep coming back to it and improving my scores. First level of Elliot I have something like 319000 points Awesome game.

 

[SkylineRKR]

That's bring silly. It's hardly the system fault you had Muppets at SEGA America., much the same happened for the PC Engine in America and westerns also turned their back on Streets Of Rage , Streets Of Rage 3 sold like shit.

The market for 2D scrolling beat them ups was in decline,even in the Arcades. To SEGAs credit they made one of the best 3D ones with Die Hard Arcade. That game never gets the credit it should and also for it's amazing graphics

Good point.

Die Hard Arcade is the absolute blueprint on how you could translate scrollers to 3D, even on the limited 5th gen consoles. Its every bit as good as SoR i'd wager and it smokes the likes of Fighting Force. It also kind of shows Segas incompetence again, they could make SoR 4 and not even negotiate a deal with Core Design (Fighting Force was pitched as SoR4).

SoR 3 is Sega at its worst. The game is absolutely flawless... the JP version. For some reason they made the english version more frustrating, and put ugly color palettes on the cast. They made it uglier overall. And they neutered the storyline which was admittedly heavy for a SoR game (the JP version is about WW3 and massive bombings). Sega also didn't promote the game, and it was hard to find from the get go. I saw few stores carrying it. I ultimately bought a used copy.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Truth be told, Sega of Japan didn't deserve Sonic, Japan didn't care about him too much until much later..

I agree, but paradoxically, they only exist today as a relevant company because of Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I don't like these games, I don't think any of them are good enough despite the graphics (unfortunately Sega was not in a good creative phase back then) The best Sega Saturn games are RE1, Dark Savior, PowerSlave, Street Fighter Alpha series, MK Trilogy, Radiant Silvergun, Guardian Heroes, Duke Nukem 3D, Rayman and Grandia.

MK Trilogy over Virtua Fighter 2...

 

[RAIDEN1]

Out of all the consoles, between the late 80s and into the late 90s the only Sega console that had a problem in getting a half-decent sonic game out was the Saturn...

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

MK Trilogy over Virtua Fighter 2...

yes, it's much more fun

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Dreamcast's failure was a self fulfilling prophecy

Everyone I showed my Dreamcast off to loved it, but when I asked if they'd be buying one they always said "nah, Sega will drop it after a few years".

Sega dropped it because these people didn't buy it.

It sold well initially to Sega fans, but sales dropped off quickly.

It did even worse in Japan, despite the Sega brand being healthy there off the back of Saturn. You'd have thought the Japanese would have lapped it up as it came with the latest Virtua Fighter.

You don't know the truth, the success of the Sega Saturn in Japan is full of myths. Here's what happened; the almost 6 million Sega Saturns were sold in Japan in 1996, but after Final Fantasy 7 in January 1997, the PS1 went from 5 million to 10 million units sold. The impact of this game and other games in 1997 made the consumer who bought the Saturn feel retarded. A hatred against Sega was born and the Sega Saturn basically died, that's why Sega made the Dreamcast (Sega Lord X in an analysis said that Sega shouldn't have released a console in 1998, but he doesn't know that). The Saturn was dead to the consumer for 2 years. When the Dreamcast came out, nobody bought it. The story that there was a lack of chips is PR, there was no demand, but Sega didn't care because the Dreamcast was made with America in mind.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

You don't know the truth, the success of the Sega Saturn in Japan is full of myths. Here's what happened; the almost 6 million Sega Saturns were sold in Japan in 1996, but after Final Fantasy 7 in January 1997, the PS1 went from 5 million to 10 million units sold. The impact of this game and other games in 1997 made the consumer who bought the Saturn feel retarded. A hatred against Sega was born and the Sega Saturn basically died, that's why Sega made the Dreamcast (Sega Lord X in an analysis said that Sega shouldn't have released a console in 1998, but he doesn't know that). The Saturn was dead to the consumer for 2 years. When the Dreamcast came out, nobody bought it. The story that there was a lack of chips is PR, there was no demand, but Sega didn't care because the Dreamcast was made with America in mind.

True, Sega never managed to make a console with global appeal

Master System
Japan = flop
America = flop
EU/RotW = great

MegaDrive
Japan = flop
America = great
EU/Rotw = great

Saturn
Japan = great
American = flop
EU/RotW = flop

Dreamcast
Japan = flop
America = OK
EU/RotW = OK

 

[cireza]

yes, it's much more fun

Said no one.

 

[nkarafo]

I have had the same thoughts myself. It seems to only be missing the enemy interaction from later 3D games.

Wait, that's not on the Saturn, where's the pop-up?

 

[BlackTron]

The lack of 3D Sonic is what most people remember the Saturn for.

Which is a shame. As the Japanese lineup was stellar.

The reason I got a Genesis was Sonic. And at that age, the game Saturn needed to move the needle was Sonic. Sorry, it's just true. Sega fought hard and failed hard. With Nintendo and Sony around, there just wasn't space for a Sega console that didn't even have it. I would have even paid attention to a 2D game with new graphics. But he was completely MIA

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

True, Sega never managed to make a console with global appeal

Master System
Japan = flop
America = flop
EU/RotW = great

MegaDrive
Japan = flop
America = great
EU/Rotw = great

Saturn
Japan = great
American = flop
EU/RotW = flop

Dreamcast
Japan = flop
America = OK
EU/RotW = OK

Anyone who reads my posts thinks I'm a hater, but I recognize that there was quality in Sega, for example, in the 80s, the big Japanese companies were creating the console market in that country, most companies opted for the MSX, Sega made its own MSX without adhering to the format, Nintendo was smarter and removed all computer functions, Sega saw the movement and did it too, but Nintendo's video game was more powerful, Sega knew it had no chance, but its console exceeded the target by 3x, so all the other dozens of manufacturers left the sector, leaving Nintendo and Sega, Sega is a winner, it defeated Bandai, for example. But the money they made was spent to buy their own freedom, but this freedom could turn into bankruptcy because of the PC Engine (that's why before launching the Mega Drive, they ported games to the PC Engine, their competitor). Nakayama knew that the American market was the only salvation, so they tried hard, but there were too many idiots amazing games like Alex Kidd died in the transition to 16-bit, Fantasy Zone had no future, so in an act of lucidity, they licensed Mikey Mouse. But they knew that Sega needed a new poster boy, again in an act of unparalleled creativity, they created Sonic the Hedgehog. But in the 90s Sega entered a cold war against Namco in the arcade market and lost because they spent tons of money while Namco gave up on high-end hardware and shifted focus to spending on R&D for fun games. The rest is history.

 

[RoboFu]

Wait, that's not on the Saturn, where's the pop-up?

The dude figured out a way to use transparency to fade in pop in like psx games at the time.

In general though people tend to either forget or not know that the Saturn was only going for half the ps1s life and the ps1 games during that time were very similar in things like pop in and lighting. But while devs dropped Saturn ports they also developed not only better use of ps1 hardware but better techniques for 3d in general. Only a handful of late Saturn games actual showed such progress.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Another screw up by Sega, just look at the roster (image below), they should have included...

- Sonic
- Knuckles
- Joe Musashi (Shinobi)
- Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)

Instead we got...

- "Siba"
- some made up Sonic Fighters characters
- a pickle in a sombraro

Such a wasted opportunity

Sonic sucks (zoomer not a fighter), Knuckles is irrelevant, and Joe Musashi is redundant since Kage-Maru is already representing. Siba was a prototype version of Akira so it is an amazing inclusion. Rent-A-Hero and Janet from Virtua Cop 2 are cool as hell. Only Sonic Fighter's Bark The Polar Bear is a dogshit pick but at least his inclusion adds a cool stage. Bean is like a reboot of Bin from Dynamite Dux and even has the same color variation. Dynamite Dux is way cooler than Sonic.

I don't like these games, I don't think any of them are good enough despite the graphics (unfortunately Sega was not in a good creative phase back then) The best Sega Saturn games are RE1, Dark Savior, PowerSlave, Street Fighter Alpha series, MK Trilogy, Radiant Silvergun, Guardian Heroes, Duke Nukem 3D, Rayman and Grandia.

If I were to pick a personal top ten for Saturn:

10. Sonic R - It takes mascot racing off track and is a fun time.


9. Die Hard Arcade - The only good 3D beat 'em up of the era in your home fresh from the arcades.


8. Road Rash - An affordable port of the next generation 3DO version of Road Rash.


7. Dungeons and Dragons Collection - Some of Capcom's best arcade beat 'em ups playable at home (exclusively on Saturn).


6. Goiken Muyou: Anarchy in the Nippon - Arguably the second best 3D fighter on the system and oozing with personality.


5. Groove On Fight - It is the Third Strike of Power Instinct franchise and exclusive to Saturn/ST-V.


4. The King of Fighters '96 - Chizuru, Mr. Big, Geese, Krauser, Kasumi, Iori, Mature, and Goenitz together in one game with some of the hardest hitting normals and best implemented taunts.


3. Real Bout Special - Best version of personal favorite SNK fighter with one of the best 2D rosters of fighters and Nightmare Geese ready to go.


2. Resident Evil - An unforgettable survival horror experience on any system.


1. Fighter's Megamix - Fighting Vipers with Virtua Fighter 3 characters and extra content is mind blowing. Makes most other 3D fighters on the system redundant.


P.S. I liked Street Fighter Alpha 2/3 on PlayStation but Saturn's versions being exclusively in Japanese really deflated the appeal. Missed the boat on Vampire Savior and do not consider X-men vs. Street Fighter top ten material even if its the best of Capcom's crossovers. I hated playing Mortal Kombat on Saturn controller the one time I tried it. I also do not think anyone would pick Symphony of the Night on Saturn over PlayStation.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Sonic sucks (zoomer not a fighter), Knuckles is irrelevant, and Joe Musashi is redundant since Kage-Maru is already representing. Siba was a prototype version of Akira so it is an amazing inclusion. Rent-A-Hero and Janet from Virtua Cop 2 are cool as hell. Only Sonic Fighter's Bark The Polar Bear is a dogshit pick but at least his inclusion adds a cool stage. Bean is like a reboot of Bin from Dynamite Dux and even has the same color variation. Dynamite Dux is way cooler than Sonic.

Sonic and Knuckles were both widely recognisable in the west and both feature in Sonic Fighters.

No one outside of avid magazine readers who saw early glimpses of VF1 would have a clue who Siba was.

No one outside Japan had a clue who Rent-A-Hero was.

No one who didn't play Sonic Fighters (a rare arcade game) would have a clue who Bark was.

No one outside Japan would have a clue who the fuck Bin and Dynamite Dux were/was


Do you see where I'm coming from here?

Put. Recognisable. Characters. In. Your. Big. Roster. Fighter.

That's why Smash Bros in huge and Fighters Megamix flopped in the west.

 

[cireza]

Wait, that's not on the Saturn, where's the pop-up?

Many Saturn games have proper fade-in of the scenery, Sonic R being one of them. As stated several times, like every other console, developers improve with time and better techniques are found. Saturn is no exception. If the console had lived longer, this is something you would as seen more frequently.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Need a Panzer Dragoon Saga remake!!

 

[RoboFu]

1996 Impact racing. playstation version came out a few months after the saturn but it shows how much PS1 improved over time and wasn't always putting out Retype 4 graphics and performance and how simular the saturn and ps1 was the first 2 years.



I like VC as the always use real hardware unless noted.

 

[cireza]

Sonic sucks (zoomer not a fighter), Knuckles is irrelevant, and Joe Musashi is redundant since Kage-Maru is already representing. Siba was a prototype version of Akira so it is an amazing inclusion. Rent-A-Hero and Janet from Virtua Cop 2 are cool as hell. Only Sonic Fighter's Bark The Polar Bear is a dogshit pick but at least his inclusion adds a cool stage. Bean is like a reboot of Bin from Dynamite Dux and even has the same color variation. Dynamite Dux is way cooler than Sonic.

If I were to pick a personal top ten for Saturn:

10. Sonic R - It takes mascot racing off track and is a fun time.


9. Die Hard Arcade - The only good 3D beat 'em up of the era in your home fresh from the arcades.


8. Road Rash - An affordable port of the next generation 3DO version of Road Rash.


7. Dungeons and Dragons Collection - Some of Capcom's best arcade beat 'em ups playable at home (exclusively on Saturn).


6. Goiken Muyou: Anarchy in the Nippon - Arguably the second best 3D fighter on the system and oozing with personality.


5. Groove On Fight - It is the Third Strike of Power Instinct franchise and exclusive to Saturn/ST-V.


4. The King of Fighters '96 - Chizuru, Mr. Big, Geese, Krauser, Kasumi, Iori, Mature, and Goenitz together in one game with some of the hardest hitting normals and best implemented taunts.


3. Real Bout Special - Best version of personal favorite SNK fighter with one of the best 2D rosters of fighters and Nightmare Geese ready to go.


2. Resident Evil - An unforgettable survival horror experience on any system.


1. Fighter's Megamix - Fighting Vipers with Virtua Fighter 3 characters and extra content is mind blowing. Makes most other 3D fighters on the system redundant.


P.S. I liked Street Fighter Alpha 2/3 on PlayStation but Saturn's versions being exclusively in Japanese really deflated the appeal. Missed the boat on Vampire Savior and do not consider X-men vs. Street Fighter top ten material even if its the best of Capcom's crossovers. I hated playing Mortal Kombat on Saturn controller the one time I tried it. I also do not think anyone would pick Symphony of the Night on Saturn over PlayStation.

So you only play arcade games but still would have us take into account your opinion about RPGs lol.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Sonic and Knuckles were both widely recognisable in the west and both feature in Sonic Fighters.

No one outside of avid magazine readers who saw early glimpses of VF1 would have a clue who Siba was.

No one outside Japan had a clue who Rent-A-Hero was.

No one who didn't play Sonic Fighters (a rare arcade game) would have a clue who Bark was.

No one outside Japan would have a clue who the fuck Bin and Dynamite Dux were/was


Do you see where I'm coming from here?

Put. Recognisable. Characters. In. Your. Big. Roster. Fighter.

That's why Smash Bros in huge and Fighters Megamix flopped in the west.

Smash Bros. is not a fighting game. I would have added Eternal Champions characters (Shadow/Midnight/Eternal Champion) or Altered Beast's centurion before most of the ones you mentioned going by that logic. Skate or Blaze would have been cooler than Axel as Streets of Rage representatives. Sonic has no place in anything besides racing and platforming despite Sega's overzealous attempts to shove him in everything.

P.S. Colonel Sanders in Dynamite Dux is more recognizable than any characters in Sonic.

 

[cireza]

1996 Impact racing. playstation version came out a few months after the saturn but it shows how much PS1 improved over time and wasn't always putting out Retype 4 graphics and performance and how simular the saturn and ps1 was the first 2 years.



I like VC as the always use real hardware unless noted.

The textures in the scenery move like crazy on PS1 it's hilarious.

 

[NeverYouMind]

So you only play arcade games but still would have us take into account your opinion about RPGs lol.

RPGs have to be fucking amazing narratively and in terms of pacing for me not to lose interest in them. Turn based mechanics and anime aesthetics are merely serviceable for me. You can ignore my opinion if you like.

 

[diffusionx]

Fighters Megamix was a great game, but why would I buy say Last Bronx when it came out a few months later when I have that, or vice versa. Just really stupid library decisions from Sega and misallocation of resources.

Smash Bros. is not a fighting game. I would have added Eternal Champions characters (Shadow/Midnight/Eternal Champion) or Altered Beast's centurion before most of the ones you mentioned going by that logic. Skate or Blaze would have been cooler than Axel as Streets of Rage representatives. Sonic has no place in anything besides racing and platforming despite Sega's overzealous attempts to shove him in everything.

P.S. Colonel Sanders in Dynamite Dux is more recognizable than any characters in Sonic.

 

[NeverYouMind]

 

[StreetsofBeige]

FF7 alone probably sunk Saturn. And also MGS. Never mind all the other lousy games, pricing, bad 3D, hardly any good games (or none) from Konami/Square/Namco, messing around with retailers giving preferential treatment and backfiring etc....

If a gamer who skewed to being a big JRPG fan (minus FF), Sega arcade ports, and Capcom arcade ports, Saturn was probably a great system. Most gamers had wider gaming interests, preferred a cheaper system and wanted better 3D. That was also the time where it was CD-roms and cut scene mania. Saturn was grainy shit while PS1 CGI was much smoother looking.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

If I were to pick a personal top ten for Saturn:

10. Sonic R - It takes mascot racing off track and is a fun time.
9. Die Hard Arcade - The only good 3D beat 'em up of the era in your home fresh from the arcades.
8. Road Rash - An affordable port of the next generation 3DO version of Road Rash.
7. Dungeons and Dragons Collection - Some of Capcom's best arcade beat 'em ups playable at home (exclusively on Saturn).
6. Goiken Muyou: Anarchy in the Nippon - Arguably the second best 3D fighter on the system and oozing with personality.
5. Groove On Fight - It is the Third Strike of Power Instinct franchise and exclusive to Saturn/ST-V.
4. The King of Fighters '96 - Chizuru, Mr. Big, Geese, Krauser, Kasumi, Iori, Mature, and Goenitz together in one game with some of the hardest hitting normals and best implemented taunts.
3. Real Bout Special - Best version of personal favorite SNK fighter with one of the best 2D rosters of fighters and Nightmare Geese ready to go.
2. Resident Evil - An unforgettable survival horror experience on any system.
1. Fighter's Megamix - Fighting Vipers with Virtua Fighter 3 characters and extra content is mind blowing. Makes most other 3D fighters on the system redundant.

I posted my personal top ten on page 9

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sega really went from milking Sonic (so many MegaDrive, Master System and GameGear) games to barely doing anything with him.

Virtua Fighter took over as Sega's darling and instead we got...

Virtua Fighter
Virtua Fighter Remix
Virtua Fighter 2
Virtua Fighter 2 (MegaDrive)
Virtua Fighter (GameGear)
Virtua Fighter Kids
Fighters MegaMix

...all in the space of 24 months.

And out of all big name fighting games at the time, VF was the most boring. Japanese gamers seemed to love it. SF, MK and Tekken are all way better. I played VF and VF2. Boring, hardly any characters, hardly any moves. Tekken destroyed it in every way. Even before playing the game, Tekken's opening cut scenes are even better than VF intros.

What could had helped Saturn is if they continued to make good Sega Sports. On Genesis it was a deadly combo of EA Sports and Sega Sports. Pick your poison. On PS it became EA Sports and good 989 games. Saturn Sega Sports were dog shit, except maybe the soccer games. But NFL, NBA, NHL, and WS baseball (except WS 98 which game mags said was awesome) were all trash. Did Sega even make a Saturn tennis or boxing games? Those were good too on Genesis.

(To be fair, those Genesis boxing games were PC ports of a game called ABC World Wide Boxing, where they changed it a bit for the console crowd)

I dont think in history there's been such a decline in quality for a company's sports games from one gen to another. I remember game mags giving Sega Sports F ratings. That's on par with shitty LJN and Acclaim games. lol

 

[diffusionx]

FF7 alone probably sunk Saturn. And also MGS. Never mind all the other lousy games, pricing, bad 3D, hardly any good games (or none) from Konami/Square/Namco, messing around with retailers giving preferential treatment and backfiring etc....

If a gamer who skewed to being a big JRPG fan (minus FF), Sega arcade ports, and Capcom arcade ports, Saturn was probably a great system. Most gamers had wider gaming interests, preferred a cheaper system and wanted better 3D. That was also the time where it was CD-roms and cut scene mania. Saturn was grainy shit while PS1 CGI was much smoother looking.

FF7 was huge, and expanded the market for these types of games to normies, and it's like with so many other things, Sega was caught flat-footed. Panzer Dragoon Saga came out in 1998, it was a GREAT game, it came out at a time when people wanted more JRPGs, but they decided to only make 10,000 of them. We didn't get Grandia in the US and so on and so on. Of course this is when Sega gave up on the US.

The Saturn had some of the games but they were either not translated, or halfway translated, or half-assed.