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My Hero Academia (Shonen Jump) move over pirates, ninjas, reapers, its Hero time

O

OniBarubary

Banned
Well it's a combination of A+B.

He admitted first to picking Hands to fuck with All Might as much as he possibly could as well as that because he's essentially got a limited time left thanks to All Might destroying his body he needed to pass on his aspirations/ideals to someone. So may as well kill 2 birds with one stone.

I also think that there was something in Shigaraki's situation that spoke to him too; as in those two reasons were pretty big for him choosing him to carry his will on but I think he also legitimately saw someone who was an example of the heroes of the world failing and it resonated with him. Otherwise I'm not entirely certain why he would have such genuine care for him; if it was only A+B he wouldn't be nearly as caring or forgiving or supportive of him. Him needing a successor can explain a lot of that but not all of it.
 
C

cntr

Banned
hey the new pokemon games just came out so have these

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C

cntr

Banned
Pokemon + a series full of relatable and personable teenagers with easily identifiable themes and powers.

it's fanart heaven
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Rowlet is cute.

Never evolve your starters.

Fuck Ashimari.
 
F

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
NO, A4O "destroyed" All Might (Fancy word for losing a fight). The villain's job was to kidnap Baku. And they did! After having like three or four of them hard lose and get captured to a bunch of highschool kids that they got the jump on. But boy oh boy did they hold onto Baku for all of a day before they had their locations discovered, half of their member's identities found out, and then almost #rekt beyond reason in a giant raid.

Or should I be impressed by the other big plan they did? Where they ambushed a bunch of highschool kids, had most of their members defeated by said highschool kids, and then proceeded to lose their Nomu (which I presume are very expensive to make) without any gains what's so ever.

I will be impressed with the villain's alliance when they actually do something successfully. Current rank of competency within that world is the Reservoir Dogs for successfully robbing something and the bird mask guy for successfully robbing the dudes who robbed something.
 
C

cntr

Banned
I mean, what else are you asking for? The Villain Alliance is deliberately written to be a bunch of newbies in over their heads, but you talk about them as if you expect them to be perfect villains with flawless plans.
 
F

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
cntr said:
I mean, what else are you asking for? The Villain Alliance is deliberately written to be a bunch of newbies in over their heads, but you talk about them as if you expect them to be perfect villains with flawless plans.
Click to expand...

I never said what I wanted from them, I just listed all of their achievements as an organization. What I want is a financial fiscal report from 2016 and meeting about what their goals are for 2017 and how they plan on improving their numbers. Until someone tells me how they can afford to make all that leather, I will not be happy.
 
F

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Are there drugs in this universe now??? The hardest fucking thing I think I've seen is a cigarette and I've seen, I think, like two. And how are they getting the hero equipment? Isn't that stuff 1) super specialized to the hero and 2) super strictly guarded? Are they making their own? How? Are they stealing it? Do they have inside people? Where does hero equipment even come from? Are there factories or does it all mostly come from Excavator's basement?

Plus, it seems like all the financial support is coming from glasses or monocle or whatever his name is, and he didn't come in until way later in this supposed "organizations" life-time. What did they do before for money? Charge for Rocky Horror Picture Shows?

The answer is they own a bar but I've never seen a god damn person go into that bar. Paddy's from Always Sunny in Philadelphia seems to get more business then them.
 
C

cntr

Banned
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This guy is introduced around the Stain arc, and he works for the Villain Alliance. He talks a bit about selling hero equipment via illegal deals with corrupt equipment companies, and presumably he sells generic stuff over customized.

Drugs haven't been mentioned in the main manga, but I can't imagine the spinoff guy pulled the concept from nowhere.

the bar is just where they hang out, it's not an actual bar.
 
F

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
cntr said:
The bar is just where they hang out, it's not an actual bar.
Click to expand...

So you're saying, they are as successful a business as Paddy's? Does that mean A4O is actually Frank?

Also yeah, that was the guy I was talking about, but was he working for them before? I thought he only came on with them because of Stain since he thought there would be a lot of young blood moving around and thus prime way to expand his business.
 
C

cntr

Banned
Nope, he's always been working for the Villain Alliance, and probably like Blackmist, he's been working with All for One since before Shigaraki arrived.

Shigaraki and co., aren't the only members, All for One has his own minions to actually run the Villain Alliance while he prepares to train Shigaraki as his successor. Like there's that doctor who treated All for One way back, we still haven't met him.
 
F

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
No, I know the Villian's Alliance was always a big organization outside of bar room pals. I saw Deku, Froppy, and Mineta drown a lot of them in a pool once. Actually just reread the chapter, kind of ambiguous if he's part of the alliance before. He actually says "i've got an interesting scheme that'll bring the cash rolling" so i take that to believe he contacted the villain's alliance after the whole stain thing, which, incidentally in that chapter Gran Tourino referred to them as "a bunch of delinquents" i.e. an incompetent mess, which I don't disagree with, nor disagree with right now.
 
F

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Is that low key you don't want to talk about the series with me? Because I would love to keep talking about the series with you. I just like to mask some of my points and personal inner torment in jokes (ha ha ha).

Straight up, I don't think the villain's alliance is written well. Sure they look intimidating, but I can't really take them seriously as an actual threat to our main characters, and if I can't, then there is a lot of tension gone from future engagements which is going to be a problem since the next arc is ramping up to have them be the primary conflicting force. And the big problem with that, as I've mentioned before, is that they just aren't competent and competency is a key factor to a threat. Bark vs Bite. And none of this is really taking into consideration the various tiny bits of ableism that is subtextually sprinkled into their designs (which normally doesn't bother me truth be told, but there are certain bits that have urked me enough to notice).

And ultimately I think the big problem is that I just don't think MHA has good world building. I really don't. It's not the worst but the best I could ever give it is average. I just don't see this as a believable world. Outside of all my jokes, I really don't see how this Japan works and the reason for that is because we are so dead focused on Deku's friend group and don't really pull the lens away enough to see the world outside. Same with the Hero Organization or whatever it's called (I actually don't know what it's called, just the Japanese government? Do they even have an official name outside of Heroes?) Yeah, All Might is great, but I barely understand the heroes bellow him. Especially Endevour who is now taking up the role as leader as now All Might's gone. And I really don't know what All Might did outside of hunt A4O in that organization, so I am extra baffled what Endevour is even supposed to do as top hero?

On one hand, mediocre world building isn't that bad. The reason we're all reading this is mostly because its a very good character study with a pretty impressive ensemble to boot (even the villains). But as the status of the world comes more and more into the forefront and more important to the plot, these issues are going to compound and only get worse if certain questions aren't addressed.

And I'm sure a lot of questions I have will be answered in time, slowly, as this is a pretty slow paced manga all things considered. It's intending to be a slow burn and I think that is going to be the real test of the author's chops when we get down to it because to my knowledge he hasn't had a series go on as long as this and the longer a story tends to get in shonen the messier they became with One Piece being the obvious exception.

But bottom line, it's been 117 chapters. I know to some that may seem small, like we're just beginning, but I've seen manga do a lot more with their world in 117 chapters, and I've seen manga do less. Hero falls in the middle. And that's fine. It's a great manga. It's not perfect. I recommend it to people who really like characters, not people who really like worlds.
 
C

cntr

Banned
Yeah, and I feel that you make strange readings into the setting and its characters, and are unwilling to discuss them in good faith. So I'm not interested in talking about this, no.
 
A

Ascheroth

Member
FlowersisBritish said:
Is that low key you don't want to talk about the series with me? Because I would love to keep talking about the series with you. I just like to mask some of my points and personal inner torment in jokes (ha ha ha).

Straight up, I don't think the villain's alliance is written well. Sure they look intimidating, but I can't really take them seriously as an actual threat to our main characters, and if I can't, then there is a lot of tension gone from future engagements which is going to be a problem since the next arc is ramping up to have them be the primary conflicting force. And the big problem with that, as I've mentioned before, is that they just aren't competent and competency is a key factor to a threat. Bark vs Bite. And none of this is really taking into consideration the various tiny bits of ableism that is subtextually sprinkled into their designs (which normally doesn't bother me truth be told, but there are certain bits that have urked me enough to notice).

And ultimately I think the big problem is that I just don't think MHA has good world building. I really don't. It's not the worst but the best I could ever give it is average. I just don't see this as a believable world. Outside of all my jokes, I really don't see how this Japan works and the reason for that is because we are so dead focused on Deku's friend group and don't really pull the lens away enough to see the world outside. Same with the Hero Organization or whatever it's called (I actually don't know what it's called, just the Japanese government? Do they even have an official name outside of Heroes?) Yeah, All Might is great, but I barely understand the heroes bellow him. Especially Endevour who is now taking up the role as leader as now All Might's gone. And I really don't know what All Might did outside of hunt A4O in that organization, so I am extra baffled what Endevour is even supposed to do as top hero?

On one hand, mediocre world building isn't that bad. The reason we're all reading this is mostly because its a very good character study with a pretty impressive ensemble to boot (even the villains). But as the status of the world comes more and more into the forefront and more important to the plot, these issues are going to compound and only get worse if certain questions aren't addressed.

And I'm sure a lot of questions I have will be answered in time, slowly, as this is a pretty slow paced manga all things considered. It's intending to be a slow burn and I think that is going to be the real test of the author's chops when we get down to it because to my knowledge he hasn't had a series go on as long as this and the longer a story tends to get in shonen the messier they became with One Piece being the obvious exception.

But bottom line, it's been 117 chapters. I know to some that may seem small, like we're just beginning, but I've seen manga do a lot more with their world in 117 chapters, and I've seen manga do less. Hero falls in the middle. And that's fine. It's a great manga. It's not perfect. I recommend it to people who really like characters, not people who really like worlds.
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I'm not sure what to say, but it honestly feels like you're kind of missing the forest for the trees.
What do the heroes do? They are heroes. They rescue people from disasters or villains, fight against criminals/villains and some of them train new heroes.
That's what Endeaver does as the top hero. That's what every hero does. That's what All Might did. All Mights only job wasn't hunting AfO. It was being a hero. I mean it's apparent in the very first chapter. It's how he met Deku. It's why he was running on fumes during the USJ arc, because he was using up his time by helping people beforehand.

As for the villain alliance being incompetent and not threatening... Toga is literally a serial killer.
Shigaraki is incompetent, but that's in line with his characterisation. It would be a problem if he were written as this super clever and threating guy that keeps failing because his plans are actually just dumb, but he's not.
He's written as being incompetent and 'childish' because he's still growing. That's also what makes him dangerous and makes it tense, if you will. The tension doesn't come from what he is now -- it comes from what he will become if left alone.
 
N

Neoriceisgood

Member
Ascheroth said:
As for the villain alliance being incompetent and not threatening... Toga is literally a serial killer.
Shigaraki is incompetent, but that's in line with his characterisation. It would be a problem if he were written as this super clever and threating guy that keeps failing because his plans are actually just dumb, but he's not.
He's written as being incompetent and 'childish' because he's still growing. That's also what makes him dangerous and makes it tense, if you will. The tension doesn't come from what he is now -- it comes from what he will become if left alone.
Click to expand...

Might just be me but ... there seems something contrary to "it's tense because of what he might become", as tension feels like a very ...active in-the-moment feeling.


While I definitely find MHA enjoyable I'll have to agree with FlowerisBritish that the villains to me seem ... lackluster at best. I mostly worry about how the heroes will fair against them cause they're kids & sometimes the adult heroes aren't around to rescue them; but ... "really dangerous to kids" doesn't quite hit the mark for me.


Toga being a serial killer is nice and all but ... have we ever seen her actually kill someone where it's like ... okay wow she's scary?

Just for contrast, in HxH the spiders felt absolutely brutal and frequently disposed of adult hunters with ease; the only one to actually do well against them was Kurapika because his power is literally designed to target spiders.

Anyway, threat and tension are fairly subjective experiences of course; but I'd be honestly shocked if the villains from MHA actually manage to kill off a named character.
Not counting one for all here for obvious reasons.
 
C

cntr

Banned
I don't think the villains are threatening either, but are they supposed to be? All Might literally calls Shigaraki a "man-child" at one point, you're clearly not supposed to see him as anything but immature. Same goes for the rest of the Villain Alliance.

I'd say only the Noumu and All for One are genuinely written as 'threatening' in a full villain sense. Shigaraki has his moments (like his chat with Deku), but as an overall character, he's supposed to be ineffectual and childish. All for One's imprisonment is the catalyst that'll make him grow up and become a proper villain, but he's not there yet.

And hey, if the author can convincingly turn Deku from a wimp to a madman, he can do the same with Shigaraki. That's the plan.
 
A

Ascheroth

Member
Neoriceisgood said:
Might just be me but ... there seems something contrary to "it's tense because of what he might become", as tension feels like a very ...active in-the-moment feeling.


While I definitely find MHA enjoyable I'll have to agree with FlowerisBritish that the villains to me seem ... lackluster at best. I mostly worry about how the heroes will fair against them cause they're kids & sometimes the adult heroes aren't around to rescue them; but ... "really dangerous to kids" doesn't quite hit the mark for me.


Toga being a serial killer is nice and all but ... have we ever seen her actually kill someone where it's like ... okay wow she's scary?

Just for contrast, in HxH the spiders felt absolutely brutal and frequently disposed of adult hunters with ease; the only one to actually do well against them was Kurapika because his power is literally designed to target spiders.

Anyway, threat and tension are fairly subjective experiences of course; but I'd be honestly shocked if the villains from MHA actually manage to kill off a named character.
Not counting one for all here for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

Knew I should have left that out, lol.
What I want to say is, that of course 'tension' comes from the moment, and it's currently provided by those new villains springing up everywhere because All Might is gone. And Toga with Dekus blood. Though those don't provide much tension yet, because it's barely starting.
Shigaraki for me is an interesting character, because of what he is (and isn't) right now, and even more so because of what he might become.

Basically what cntr said.

I don't think we've seen any on-screen kills from Toga, but that one girl she replaced during the license arc has to be either dead or locked away based on her quirk. I don't think you can say she's not really dangerous.
 
N

Neoriceisgood

Member
Ascheroth said:
Knew I should have left that out, lol.
What I want to say is, that of course 'tension' comes from the moment, and it's currently provided by those new villains springing up everywhere because All Might is gone. And Toga with Dekus blood. Though those don't provide much tension yet, because it's barely starting.
Shigaraki for me is an interesting character, because of what he is (and isn't) right now, and even more so because of what he might become.

Basically what cntr said.

I don't think we've seen any on-screen kills from Toga, but that one girl she replaced during the license arc has to be either dead or locked away based on her quirk. I don't think you can say she's not really dangerous.
Click to expand...

I agree that the author's clearly building up to something, and I do expect them to get stronger in the future for sure.

As it stands now ... ? ... eehhh. I think with characters like Toga a bit of show-don't-tell would've worked for me personally.

cntr said:
I don't think the villains are threatening either, but are they supposed to be? All Might literally calls Shigaraki a "man-child" at one point, you're clearly not supposed to see him as anything but immature. Same goes for the rest of the Villain Alliance.

I'd say only the Noumu and All for One are genuinely written as 'threatening' in a full villain sense. Shigaraki has his moments (like his chat with Deku), but as an overall character, he's supposed to be ineffectual and childish. All for One's imprisonment is the catalyst that'll make him grow up and become a proper villain, but he's not there yet.

And hey, if the author can convincingly turn Deku from a wimp to a madman, he can do the same with Shigaraki. That's the plan.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree with this post, I don't think a lot of the villains are even meant to be particularly threatening at the moment. Which is fine, but it does mean there's a certain lack of tension.
 
M

Meffer

Member
Ascheroth said:
Knew I should have left that out, lol.
What I want to say is, that of course 'tension' comes from the moment, and it's currently provided by those new villains springing up everywhere because All Might is gone. And Toga with Dekus blood. Though those don't provide much tension yet, because it's barely starting.
Shigaraki for me is an interesting character, because of what he is (and isn't) right now, and even more so because of what he might become.

Basically what cntr said.

I don't think we've seen any on-screen kills from Toga, but that one girl she replaced during the license arc has to be either dead or locked away based on her quirk. I don't think you can say she's not really dangerous.
Click to expand...
We did. The first panel Toga was shown she absolutely massacred a man. At least the aftermath. Then she does her "impassioned" speech to Ochako then you relate that panel to the speech, it's obvious she did it more than once. And she's very casual about it.
 
C

cntr

Banned
fwiw, I don't think Toga is very threatening either. There's some threat from her...unpredictability, but she's not at proper villain status yet. Nobody in the VA is, not yet.

Neoriceisgood said:
Yeah I agree with this post, I don't think a lot of the villains are even meant to be particularly threatening at the moment. Which is fine, but it does mean there's a certain lack of tension.
Click to expand...
Kind feels like we're going to be focusing on the character development over the next few arcs.

wouldn't be surprised if we got a "villain episode" arc soon
 
O

OniBarubary

Banned
When they invade the UAC while the kids handle the small fries their heavy hitters take out Aizawa and 13 pretty handily and if All Might didn't show up Shigaraki would've killed Tsuyu pretty handily and then Mineta and Deku after. Pretty much any of the students actually fighting against Shigaraki or Gate-guy or Noumu are...kinda fucked. And their goal was All Might who was SUPPOSED to be there but was late/not arriving due to unforseen circumstances. So when he actually shows up, Shigaraki, Noumu and Gate-guy actually have him on the ropes. Their plan works for the most part. Then the kids interfere and All-Might fucks Noumu up but is literally unable to move anymore so Deku interferes with Shigaraki and Gate-guy's attack which...would have actually killed All Might. Then the other heroes show up.

When we see Shigaraki again he literally has Deku at his utter mercy and can kill him at any time. Deku can do nothing to him and Shigaraki had complete control of the entire situation.

When the villains attack the training camp how many of them got taken out? 3? I forget. And then they retreat because they successfully pulled off their mission which was to capture Bakugou. These are also not their heavy hitters (Shigaraki/Gate-guy/Noumu) and the Noumu thing that was there was invincible and it was all Yao and the other dude could do to run away from it.

When the group goes to rescue Bakugou they're not even at the right location. The villains and Bakugou end up there because of All Might and the heroes invasion of the other location which is a concentrated surprise attack by like 4 of the top 10 heroes on, essentially, an amateur villain group.

Like, the Villain Alliance is kinda messy and fumbles a lot but as people are saying they're all amateurs and it's not supposed to be this perfect, calculating entity. For a bunch of people following a dude who up to this point has just kinda been treating it as a game or winging it (illustrated between the differences in him and Stain) and is called a literal man-child, they still succeed a lot or come close and are pretty dangerous.

I don't think they're overwhelmingly threatening but they're also not supposed to be. The series has done a good job with the villains who ARE supposed to be big threats; All For One and Stain. Both have been treated correctly for how dangerous they are and certainly carry with them a certain aura.

Shigaraki and Co. don't and aren't supposed to have that for the most part. Shigaraki is dangerous because if he actually tried he'd be REALLY dangerous but he's still a student and an amateur; he relied on A4O too much and never took anything seriously and would just get pissy like a child. Gate-guy is regularly shown to be super dangerous. Until they figured out where his real body was the guy could handle the entire class. When the heroes attack, they take him out first. After the first time Ochako and Bakugou find his real body he never lets them get close to it again. Dude is the real MVP of the villain alliance.
 
C

cntr

Banned
honestly Blackmist feels like he's supposed to be super important, like 'predates everybody except All for One' important

heck, immortality quirks canonically exist, so for all we know Blackmist was around one hundred years ago
 
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