That... makes a certain amount of sense.
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My Hero Academia (Shonen Jump) move over pirates, ninjas, reapers, its Hero time
- Thread starter SalvaPot
- Start date
Lightning_Roller
Banned
Yamcha never had a snowballs chance in hell with Bulma. Yamcha was only created to suffer and that's what he'll do.
Way to kill the tension before it even releases dude.
I didn't put two and two together and was still thinking,"Kind of looks like All Might in a gas mask with some spikes on his shoulders" lol
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Not to be a bummer, but I am glad you pointed that out CNTR because that OVA looked like everything I generally dislike in OVAs and it feels like you just saved me a watch.
Dedication Through Light
Member
What type of surprising plot were people expecting in an event ova?
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Great chapter, Bakugou in agony/guilt is always what I like to see in Bakugou Midoriya focused ones and taking it in this angle, him constantly being reminded of how that fateful encounter that one day in school has led to all of this happening is pretty creative.
Also kind of chuckled at Bakugou saying *ouch*
i wish they did a hot springs thing like food wars
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Great chapter, Bakugou in agony/guilt is always what I like to see in Bakugou Midoriya focused ones and taking it in this angle, him constantly being reminded of how that fateful encounter that one day in school has led to all of this happening is pretty creative.
Also kind of chuckled at Bakugou saying *ouch*
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
I want a beach ova mostly because it could lead into some crazy underwater battle where some of the kids could show off inventive uses of their quirks that wouldn't work the same on land. Deku's little flick whirlpool back in USJ was hype.
I mean yeah there's gonna be swimsuits but don't tell me you don't want All Might manservice
What a clever way to say you like Bakugou being the bottom in that ship. You're adapting. Becoming stronger.What type of surprising plot were people expecting in an event ova?i wish they did a hot springs thing like food wars
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Great chapter, Bakugou in agony/guilt is always what I like to see in Bakugou Midoriya focused ones and taking it in this angle, him constantly being reminded of how that fateful encounter that one day in school has led to all of this happening is pretty creative.
Also kind of chuckled at Bakugou saying *ouch*
None of the kids can beat Tsuyu in an underwater match. She'd be overpowered.
I want to see what Gang Orca is like underwater.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
OniBarubary
Banned
Yoarorororo's indifferent face is killing me.
"Not this shit again."
I like Tsuyu's expression myself, but I don't think it's actually different from her usual expression.
I don't know about a beach episode. Personally, I like that fanservice is mostly kept to a minimum in the series. And with how it's insistent on not treating female characters as sex objects, this might not be 100% appropriate to it's general themes...but then again, we HAVE had fanservice. And honestly, I'd be significantly less bothered if the girls took the time to admire the boy's physiques in turn.
So, yeah, I'd rather not have it, but if we were to have it, I'd be cautiously optimistic.
I don't know about a beach episode. Personally, I like that fanservice is mostly kept to a minimum in the series. And with how it's insistent on not treating female characters as sex objects, this might not be 100% appropriate to it's general themes...but then again, we HAVE had fanservice. And honestly, I'd be significantly less bothered if the girls took the time to admire the boy's physiques in turn.
So, yeah, I'd rather not have it, but if we were to have it, I'd be cautiously optimistic.
Maybe that's not the only fluid of Bakugou's that's explosive.
For example I would have probably picked something like Mob Psycho 100 but that doesn't have the same kind of Western appeal as something like MHA or even One Punch Man. Not a bad choice just an interesting one considering the plethora of anime released every year.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
I think part of MHA's success is because it was able to draw from and build on the last 10 years of media, Japanese and Western. It'd likely be a fairly different product if it launched a decade ago.
Like, what if Horikoshi was playing a bunch of Battlefront back in the day and that led to him naming shit after Star Wars locations?
Like, what if Horikoshi was playing a bunch of Battlefront back in the day and that led to him naming shit after Star Wars locations?
I can totally buy that we wouldn't get this story if Horikoshi made this ten years ago...partially because the comic industry also would be in a different place than it is right now, so he would be working with different inspiration.
But if we were to somehow timetravel and get the completed MHA of this timeline and then release it ten years ago, I think it would still be a success. A good story is a good story. Truly good things do not suffer from Nostalgia goggles.
But if we were to somehow timetravel and get the completed MHA of this timeline and then release it ten years ago, I think it would still be a success. A good story is a good story. Truly good things do not suffer from Nostalgia goggles.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
But there is no actual such thing as a "timeless classic" though. Stories are all very much tied to the time they are written and the inspiration and events that led up to them. The definition of a "good story" changes so radically from decade to decade, and that's not even keeping in mind the author's changing tastes and opinions of the world and life during a long, multi-year long work. For example, the beginning of Berserk and what Berserk is now are two very very very different beasts.
I don't think so.
I mean, if you are right about there not being any truly 'timeless' classics, then I would argue that changes not by the decades, but by the centuries. I mean, it's one thing to see trends changing, but something as radical as seeing Deus ex Machina as a legitimate and satisfying storytelling trope was something only popular back in the 3rd century greece.
But the core ingredients of what make up a good story, pacing, character development, human flaws, etc, that is consistent even throughout the ages. Personal suffering, for example, is such a prevalent trope that it seems it will never stop being a key ingredient to making a hero. Even epics such as the Iliad have powerful scenes like Achilles unable to save his beloved friend, Patroclus. From the classics, to Spider-man unable to save Uncle Ben or Midoriya being forced to see his mentor and hero fall from the heights of glory, it's one thing I'd call truly timeless.
Sure, things can change. But the more they change, the more they stay the same. To counter your example and at risk of praising one piece, that manga also changed in it's 20 year history, but I would say it still sticks to the same formula it has since the beginning.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I like how you went to century's because as I wrote that I was totes thinking about Victorian literature and how various rules of conduct that governed their constraining social etiquettes formed the framework for a lot of Victorian litterature's minor subversions of them for a greater symbolic purpose: ranging small acts of subtlety like being a little rude to a dinner guest sybmolizing a break away from those constraints (I'm referencing a specific scene I read about, and I think it was in Pride and Prejudice) to more blatant down cries like participating in hedonistic orgies (Portrait of Dorian Gray).
If you can't tell, I was an english major with a bit of a specialization in the Victorian Era lol
Anyways, this is bleeding in from conversations we've had in the BB thread, but our tenants of what makes a "good story" I think are pretty different. The closest to a "timeless" story I can think of is "The Princes Bride" (only seen the movie btw) and I wouldn't say there's tremendous strokes of character development. Characters show up with their objectives and those pretty much do not change at the end. Same with outlooks and philosophies. But it's the tone and heart of those characters that really cement it. It's got a bright, optimistic wit I adore, a sense of wonder that can be both silly and frightening, and (more importantly I think) a real sense of heart. It wears its fairy tale fantasy on its sleeve with a smile, and even as things look dire, you have a genuine (I think, absolutely human) faith the story is going to end in a happy ending. It plays on that fundamental hope in human being that I think is more tied to emotion than anything else.
And even then, I think The Princess Bride is tied to time. I find myself more attracted to its hopefulness as the world looks darker, but when the world gets better, my feelings for it won't be nearly as strong.
Don't get me wrong, I think characters are important (the characters in the Princess Bride are all utter delights!) but I think its a word that gets thrown around a lot without a real understanding of what makes stories work. Stories are a large series very complicated pieces of moving gears, all ideally working within one another, and characters are just one gear (actually they're like five gears in one, but whateves) and good characters alone do not make good stories, but good stories can be led by bad characters (and sometimes that's the point of the story).
TLDR: I disagree with Veelk because MHA doesn't have enough TOGA to be an actual timeless classic.
Well, to say MHA is timeless is getting a bit ahead of what I was saying. If we're talking about leaping through centuries, yeah, you'll see much greater changes in narrative trends and meanings, particularly socially based tropes. Those change, sure.
But there are deeper tropes, ones that are based in humanity, not in mere society, which will endure as long as people can be called people. One such trope is how fart jokes, for example, will be eternally funny. Throughout all cultures, throughout all time, people aren't supposed to fart, so when they do, it's funny. Everywhere, farting is funny. And you know who wrote fart jokes? Authors traditionally recognized as being timeless.
But we're talking about a messily decade here. We're talking about a time Naruto was selling. And in a lot of ways, MHA is just a Naruto that doesn't suck. If Naruto can break ground, MHA being a better version of it should be easily be able to do it.
TLDR: I disagree with Flowers because....
But there are deeper tropes, ones that are based in humanity, not in mere society, which will endure as long as people can be called people. One such trope is how fart jokes, for example, will be eternally funny. Throughout all cultures, throughout all time, people aren't supposed to fart, so when they do, it's funny. Everywhere, farting is funny. And you know who wrote fart jokes? Authors traditionally recognized as being timeless.
But we're talking about a messily decade here. We're talking about a time Naruto was selling. And in a lot of ways, MHA is just a Naruto that doesn't suck. If Naruto can break ground, MHA being a better version of it should be easily be able to do it.
TLDR: I disagree with Flowers because....
OniBarubary
Banned
Oh my god I spit out my fucking drink
Eh, I don't really agree, there are a lot of fundamental differences. Naruto focused on three main characters, whereas MHA has a rotating cast. Naruto had one rival, MHA has a three way rivalry. MHA has uncomplicated mutual romantic interests, Naruto... did not. Naruto was an idiot in the tradition of Goku and Luffy, while Midoriya is quite intelligent.
Naruto was also one of the pioneers of the "main character struggles with sealed evil power" trope which was a huge storytelling axis around which everything else revolved. MHA has nothing equivalent.
I really don't see much resemblance.
so its HxH! Hiyo!
Well, yeah, there differences, because if they did all the same things as Naruto, it would suck like Naruto.
Some of what you say isn't entirely accurate (neji was a rival as well, for instance), but the better way to draw up the parallels is this:
A severly underestimated hero with self confidence issues who can tap into vast amounts of power aspires to be the greatest hero of his land and so is accepted into mentorship that will help him grow through the ranks. He has an antagonistic relationship with one rival who feels a growing resentment to the protagonist's growing power and eventually becomes openly hostile and violent to him, while another rival has issues with an abusive paternal figure that he feels a great amount of resentment toward, while he is allied with a cute girl who that has some self confidence issues regarding her own power level and ability to keep up with the protagonist.
Is this Naruto or MHA
The antagonists have much greater degrees of differences, but the relationship set up that he has with many characters is very similar. I would have also mentioned that he likes to win fights through cleverness rather than brute force, but that disappeared as the series went on...but it was definitely there at the start of the series!
This series also has a great many parallels. Kurapika is trying to avenge the massacre of his family is the same premise as Sasuke's, while Killua's friendly rivalry with Gon is much like what Naruto and Sasuke's relationship might have been if Sasuke wasn't a dick. And Gon himself is certainly much more clever than he lets on, like Naruto used to be.
OniBarubary
Banned
That's summary is so vague that, with maybe one or two changes (and additional parallels), it could be Bleach.
In fact I would argue that Bleach has more in common with Naruto than MHA.
Naturally there are parallels and divergences as there are with all genre fiction, but I don't think it's fair to single out Naruto as some kind of template on which MHA is built.
honestly the real reason I dislike Naruto comparisons because of all the ridiculous conclusions people made back in the day, like people were convinced that Bakugou would turn villainous when he got kidnapped because "My Hero Academia is Naruto". Heck, just last week, people still comparing Sasuke and Bakugou.
And I can't even see where it comes from, all that seems like basic broad level stuff. I can see Kakashi/Aizawa, but not anything else. Horikoshi was inspired by Naruto, but he's been inspired by a lot of things. (Deku's backstory is like Captain America's, but that doesn't mean Deku is Captain America.)
And I can't even see where it comes from, all that seems like basic broad level stuff. I can see Kakashi/Aizawa, but not anything else. Horikoshi was inspired by Naruto, but he's been inspired by a lot of things. (Deku's backstory is like Captain America's, but that doesn't mean Deku is Captain America.)
Now, I didn't read ALL of bleach, but I know the bolded aren't true and the italicized aren't true as far as I know, but might be in the parts I didn't read. Ichigo is oft underestimated, but he has confidence in himself, he doesn't aspire to anything, and his mentorship isn't to rise through ranks but rather to just be strong enough to beat whoever he needs to beat. Ishida had hostility towards him for like 2 chapters and was his friend after that. I haven't ready the Quincy arc, but I'm pretty sure Ishida is coerced into it rather than the result of his resentment, but hey, feel free to prove me wrong. Similarly, can't think of any rival that has parental issues unless one was introduced in the last arc. Lastly, Orihime might have had some issues regarding her power, I'm not sure, but it was less about keeping up with Ichigo and more about him having to defend her and getting hurt because of it, while Sakura and Uraraka specifically thought of the protagonists as people she should keep up with just on principle.
So, unless a LOT of shit changed in the Quincy arc, I feel that's not accurate at all.
I don't think anyone is saying MHA is Naruto, but they're playing with the same toys. Several parallels come together to give a feeling of reminiscence of that series. I mean, Bakugou and Sasuke both have a resentful, antagonistic relationship with the protagonist that is based around the 'loser' catching up with the revered genius, to the point where villains think they can turn him to their side. That's not a shallow, broad parallel, that's a character arc template. That Bakugou has different motivations (he wants to be like All Might, while Sasuke just wanted power to kill Itachi) or that he chose to stay loyal to his friends are significant, sure. But all that means is that Bakugou zagged where Sasuke zigged. They were still at a similar place though.
My point is you can write a summary like that for most shonen battle manga.
Like so:
A hero with uncommonly vast reserves of chakra/reiatsu enters the world of shinigami/ninja from the lowest rank, and rapidly grows in power as he grapples with the kyuubi/hollow inside him which grants him tremendous strength at the cost of evil possession. He eventually learns his signature move, the rasengan/getsuga tenshou, which turns out to be a legacy ability of his father, Minato/Isshin, who turns out to have been a high ranking badass all along while the hero suspected nothing. He forms a rivalry with a quiet dark haired boy who believes himself to be the last of his clan, a clan that once threatened the established order. The hero is an unbearable moron with a fixation on the power of friendship. A mad scientist defector from the shinigami/ninja (who is far out of the hero's league in power) manipulates events so that one of the hero's friends falls into his clutches so that said mad scientist can obtain ultimate power. The hero embarks on a quest to retrieve said friend.
If you noticed, what your describe is mostly focused on power and set up to gain more. What I'm specifically describing are character motivations and relationships.
The latter is far more indicative of what kind of story your telling than what abilities your protagonists use as power systems.
I made a longer post that covered your edited post, but I don't feel like rewriting it, so I'll just reply to this.
When I make parallels, I am not just throwing out labels for the hell of it. Ishida is probably the most rival-like of Ichigo's friends, but the actual relationship really isn't. Ishida started off with a bone to pick with Ichigo, but in the course of one or two chapters saw he wasn't a bad guy, and was his stalwart ally ever since. If there was any kind of major moment where Ishida directly competed with Ichigo, felt resentment for losing, derisively mocked him when he won, then I can't name them. Those were the defining characteristics of Sasuke and Naruto's relationship. And, correct me if I'm wrong, Ishida's turn to the villains side, that had nothing to do with his regard to Ichigo.
That is something that is far more similar to Bakugou and Midoriya. Sure, there are differences, but if you were to summarize how their relationship is distinct from most, it's centered around that Bakugou believed himself to be a superior for genetically inherited reasons, and with the gap between him and 'the loser' shrinking, his insecurity pushes him to be more and more resentful of him, to the point there is a violent break and villains think they can persuade him based on that.
There certainly are significant differences between Naruto and MHA's treatment of these relationships, but you can name a significant amount more specific details with their relationship than you can with bleach. Assigning Ishida the designation of rival because he was one for a grand total of a few chapters and then also turns to the enemy is much thinner in comparison.
I added more and there's probably a lot more that I could add if I hadn't tried to delete Bleach from my brain. I don't agree at all that relationships aren't part of the parallels.
To the extent that Bleach had relationships or motivations at all, most if not all of them conformed to Naruto archetypes.
I guess that's where our disagreement lies. Looking at only archtypes, yeah, you'd see a lot of similarity everywhere. I don't consider them to be merely similar archtypes, but similar arcs. The archtype of Bakugou would be "rival", but arc of Bakugou is him getting further angry and insecure as the gap between him and the protagonist closes because of a collapsing belief in his own inherent superiority, climaxing with a battle.
An Archtype is merely a character's vague place in the story, but an arc is how and why that place changes as it goes on.
You can go in a lot more detail with the development Bakugou and Sasuke than you can with Sasuke and Ishida.
You weren't around back then, but people really did compare the series like that, making direct equivalences between characters, to the point where they assumed equivalent personalities, motivations, and arcs. Especially Sasuke and Bakugou. Bakugou's refusal to join the villains was the point where it stopped (though a few people still do it), but before then...eugh.
I know that's not what you're saying, and I'd normally agree with you, but it's hard not to react badly to Naruto comparisons after all that.
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