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[VeeP]

It's likely he was tired, and that's perfectly understandable given he's been really putting the Cavs on his back in each of these three Finals. However, while he is different than MJ and Kobe, it's important to note that all three were incredible two way players. Furthermore, while being tired is an explanation for some of LeBron's 4th quarter struggles his mindset is also a key factor - sometimes he just tries to make the right play by passing to the open man, sometimes he tries to just get the ball out of his hand. But just to be clear, what I find interesting is the fact that LeBron has earned the reputation of not being clutch (and at times shrinking) yet we've seen him be extremely clutch and hit game winning shots, and that dichotomy is both intriguing and difficult to comprehend.

As for depth, I mean LeBron is playing alongside two All-Stars, one of which can get his shot anytime he wants. He has a decent collection of role players. Generally speaking most of them haven't shown up in the Finals, but this notion that the Cavs don't have depth is a scapegoat to me.

The Bulls and Lakers were pretty comparable, 2-3 perennial All-Stars, 2-3 really good role players, and 2-3 capable role players.

So I'm not really a Cavs fan, and I don't watch them play too much. And I'm not trying to give Lebron a scapegoat or anything. But your original posts was how in the 4th he's invisible. And to me, it seems like being tired and the Cavs roster is plays a huge part in it. Why is it that every game Lebron doesn't play Cavs lose? Why is it that when Lebron sits, usually the other team takes over? The only time I can think of it not happening was I think Game 4 of the Celtics Cavs series, where the Celtics failed to push their lead more when Lebron was out.

Cavs may have a great supporting cast when Lebron is on the floor, but it seems to me when he's off the floor the whole team falls apart. Because of this Lebron barely gets any rest, which lead to him disappearing in the 4th.

Would Bulls fall apart when Michael sat down for 5 minutes? Would Lakers if Kobe sat down? Because that's what I've seen from the Cavs. I feel like part of that blame goes to Lebron, I imagine he had a firm voice on who he wants and doesn't want on his team. But at the same time, I can't say Kevin Durant is a better player than Lebron (like others outside of GAF are doing) just because he had a better 4th quarter. Because Lebron has to do so much more on this team than other players have to do on their teams.

When did he choke?

I just like posting how much of a choke artist him and KD are because that was the narrative going into these finals and both of them proved the haters wrong. KD came in clutch. Curry's only bad game was first half of game 2 where he played really sloppy and he's been playing good ball.

Another narrative going in, Lebron is the daddy of Curry and KD, and his block on Iggy forever scarred him.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Is FZZ the new version of Konex, only now the muse of choice is Lonzo instead of Kobe?

 

[PadWarrior]

Tim Roye @warriorsvox

In the first 3 games of the Finals, the Warriors have outscored Cleveland 138 to 93 from three.
12:50 PM · Jun 8, 2017

 

[MugiwaraCole]

I want Lebron to get Paul George on the phone, and, I hate that it's come to this.

 

[VeeP]

Tim Roye @warriorsvox

In the first 3 games of the Finals, the Warriors have outscored Cleveland 138 to 93 from three.
12:50 PM · Jun 8, 2017

Lebron should join the Rockets. He wants to beat the Warriors he needs to live by the 3, and die by the 3.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I want Lebron to get Paul George on the phone, and, I hate that it's come to this.

There isn't a way for Cleveland to add Paul George to their team short of trading Kyrie. Where is this pie in the sky Cavs get Butler or George idea coming from?

 

[friskykillface]

I want Lebron to get Paul George on the phone, and, I hate that it's come to this.

David West gonna recruit George
Pacer bros stay together
West gonna get revenge 👀


Pacers might as well accept Thompson, Shumpert and picks for George

 

[SwipeLeftHoney]

I want Lebron to get Paul George on the phone, and, I hate that it's come to this.

Your best case scenario is Lebron opting out and talking Chris Paul to join him in New York with Melo...

 

[commish]

Is FZZ the new version of Konex, only now the muse of choice is Lonzo instead of Kobe?

Come on, can't dis Konex like that.

He's more like the new version of Trax, and Ball is Bosh.

 

[VeeP]

David West gonna recruit George
Pacer bros stay together
West gonna get revenge 👀

Paul George did say he was tired of losing to Lebron...

That's it. Paul George to the Warriors confirmed. Move Kevin Durant to Center. Paul George Small Forward. New death line up.

 

[phanphare]

I want Lebron to get Paul George on the phone, and, I hate that it's come to this.

"hello?"

"hey it's bron. you still going to LA?"

"hell yeah, of course"

"would you want to come to cleveland instead?"

:click:

"paul......?"

 

[bionic77]

Is Draymond the second best player on the Warriors? You don't notice his game because he doesn't score that many points, but his impact is immediate when he is not on the floor. When he is out Golden State's defense just seems to collapse and they have to win via offense.

Also not a criticism of LeBron but he seems to be a guy that IS the system. Every team he goes to he has to be the engine that runs the offense. That is great for stats and he is one of very few guys that I can think of that has won it all that way. I think one reason why is if you have a system that generates shots (i.e. Spurs, triangle, etc) it takes some pressure off the players because they can always fall back on the system if the star is on the bench. When I think of the Lakers and Spurs in the last decade, even though they had star players they always had a system on offense to generate plays no matter who was on the floor. Not sure if the Cavs or most of LeBrons teams have had that and I wonder if that makes it harder for those teams to come out on top in big moments.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

It's not shit posting when Lonzo IS going to be the face of the league in his rookie year

This is the Finals thread. Take your Lonzo shit to the offseason thread and be done with it.

 

[uncredited male]

I am sure there are teams queuing up already for a chance to trade for the Thompson/Smith combo at the bargain price of 30+ million a year.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Westbrook being the reason why.

Horseshit. Durant was every bit as responsible for the hero ball that got played during his tenure in OKC as Westbrook was. It's also not Westbrook's fault that Durant went 32 for 81 from the floor in games 5, 6 and 7 of the WCF last year.

Everyone acts so amazed at his "efficiency" and "growth" now that he's not tied to Westbrook anymore. More horseshit. His "efficiency" and "growth" are the product of being on the floor with three other all-stars, and a roster full of dead-eye shooters (himself included, of course).

Any player is a product of the roster they're tied to and the system they play under. What happened in OKC was a failure of all of the above, don't just pin it on Westbrook. Andre Roberson and Dion Waiters don't quite create the kind of floor space for you that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson do. Put Westbrook on the floor with guys like that and his efficiency would skyrocket, too.

 

[natjjohn]

David West gonna recruit George
Pacer bros stay together
West gonna get revenge 👀


Pacers might as well accept Thompson, Shumpert and picks for George

Would be better for Pacers to let George walk than be saddled with trash with trash contracts

 

[SwipeLeftHoney]

Is Draymond the second best player on the Warriors? You don't notice his game because he doesn't score that many points, but his impact is immediate when he is not on the floor. When he is out Golden State's defense just seems to collapse and they have to win via offense.

Also not a criticism of LeBron but he seems to be a guy that IS the system. Every team he goes to he has to be the engine that runs the offense. That is great for stats and he is one of very few guys that I can think of that has won it all that way. I think one reason why is if you have a system that generates shots (i.e. Spurs, triangle, etc) it takes some pressure off the players because they can always fall back on the system if the star is on the bench. When I think of the Lakers and Spurs in the last decade, even though they had star players they always had a system on offense to generate plays no matter who was on the floor. Not sure if the Cavs or most of LeBrons teams have had that and I wonder if that makes it harder for those teams to come out on top in big moments.

They had that when Mike Brown was coach but these players wanna run Iso and play for stats.

 

[MushroomSamba]

I want Lebron to get Paul George on the phone, and, I hate that it's come to this.

Well, he kinda started this cycle with the Heatles...and I guess again when he traded them in for younger models in Kyrie and Love. He's been trying to stack the deck with more all-stars since he couldn't handle the competition. Now the Warriors are beating him at his own game.

 

[overcast]

This is the Finals thread. Take your Lonzo shit to the offseason thread and be done with it.

Lmaooo 💀💀

 

[Nafai1123]

LOL the Legend of the Toast showed up in that Game of Zones.

 

[phanphare]

lol, the flat earth shield

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

lol, the flat earth shield

Or Draymond's donkey

or Klay's toaster horse.

Bonus from my google image search:

 

[PadWarrior]

Or Draymond's donkey

or Klay's toaster horse.

Bonus from my google image search:

Lol!!

 

[VeeP]

Lmao, Korver bird always cracks me up. Bleacher Report is amazing.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Durant lost them the WCF last year. If you don't see that, you are delusional.

He had a bad game 6 (particularly the 4th quarter) and yet you'll pin the entire Western Conference finals loss on Durant? What about Westbrook who went 33% on both FG and 3ptFG attempts (just to get 19pts iirc)? What about Westbrook's turnovers that ultimately fed momentum to the Warriors? What about the fact that OKC repeated the same mistakes in Game 7 where they did not defend the 3pt line well and allowed GSW to get back in the game (didn't help that Westbrook was -19 compared to Durant's -4)?

Don't pin Durant as the reason why OKC lost and then ignore the rest of the team and call people delusional.

That's a little bit unfair to Westbrook, there's nothing about his mentality that could keep him from winning FMVP. Put him in the Cavs (a team that fits his playing style) in the Kyrie role and he could be that guy.

The problem I have is that Westbrook is too ball-dominant and has the tendency to take bad shots. If you replace Kyrie with him, you lose out on pure scoring in favour of a backcourt with two ball-dominant players that want to make plays (sometimes forcing them with regards to Westbrook) and shots. I'm not sure there's a lot of synergy with Lebron.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Lonzo is going to revolutionize this dying league and send KD back to the second place shadow realm where he belongs

Don't change your avatar. That's how I recognize the crazy.

Hey anybody want to talk about the Miami Heat

 

[DominoKid]

Is Draymond the second best player on the Warriors? You don't notice his game because he doesn't score that many points, but his impact is immediate when he is not on the floor. When he is out Golden State's defense just seems to collapse and they have to win via offense.

Also not a criticism of LeBron but he seems to be a guy that IS the system. Every team he goes to he has to be the engine that runs the offense. That is great for stats and he is one of very few guys that I can think of that has won it all that way. I think one reason why is if you have a system that generates shots (i.e. Spurs, triangle, etc) it takes some pressure off the players because they can always fall back on the system if the star is on the bench. When I think of the Lakers and Spurs in the last decade, even though they had star players they always had a system on offense to generate plays no matter who was on the floor. Not sure if the Cavs or most of LeBrons teams have had that and I wonder if that makes it harder for those teams to come out on top in big moments.

NC Central's coach said it best

LeVelle Moton‏Verified account
@LeVelleMoton
Ppl will never understand the value of a System in clutch situations. Lakers threw it to Kareem, Bulls had Triangle, Cavs just freelance smh
https://twitter.com/LeVelleMoton/status/872661754756698112

 

[Tom Penny]

Is Draymond the second best player on the Warriors? You don't notice his game because he doesn't score that many points, but his impact is immediate when he is not on the floor. When he is out Golden State's defense just seems to collapse and they have to win via offense.

Also not a criticism of LeBron but he seems to be a guy that IS the system. Every team he goes to he has to be the engine that runs the offense. That is great for stats and he is one of very few guys that I can think of that has won it all that way. I think one reason why is if you have a system that generates shots (i.e. Spurs, triangle, etc) it takes some pressure off the players because they can always fall back on the system if the star is on the bench. When I think of the Lakers and Spurs in the last decade, even though they had star players they always had a system on offense to generate plays no matter who was on the floor. Not sure if the Cavs or most of LeBrons teams have had that and I wonder if that makes it harder for those teams to come out on top in big moments.

if Dray is the best player on your team you don't win shit without very good scorers because he's not bringing that to the table.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

I'm already hearing fans put an asterisk on this Warriors title as it's essentially Cleveland Vs West All Stars in The Finals. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm also not impressed by this perfect run. 2017 Warriors would be like if the 96 Bulls replaced Kukoc with Karl Malone or 2002 Lakers replaced Robert Horry with Tim Duncan. Of course they should sweep with an all star team.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Car Involved in Derek Fisher's DUI Crash Reportedly Registered to Matt Barnes

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ui-crash-reportedly-registered-to-matt-barnes

Bruh

 

[Fjordson]

I would say Draymond is more valuable than Klay, but that'd make him third best. Curry and Durant are far and away the two best players on the Dubs.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Durant lost them the WCF last year. If you don't see that, you are delusional.

Now this, I don't agree with. Both Westbrook and Durant played poorly in the three consecutive losses to end that series.

 

[SwipeLeftHoney]

Car Involved in Derek Fisher's DUI Crash Reportedly Registered to Matt Barnes

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ui-crash-reportedly-registered-to-matt-barnes

Bruh

WOW you can't make this shit up I tell you...

 

[MushroomSamba]

I'm already hearing fans put an asterisk on this Warriors title as it's essentially Cleveland Vs West All Stars in The Finals. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm also not impressed by this perfect run. 2017 Warriors would be like if the 96 Bulls replaced Kukoc with Karl Malone or 2002 Lakers replaced Robert Horry with Tim Duncan. Of course they should sweep with an all star team.

Does that mean they're also putting asterisks on LeBron's Heat championships?

 

[LionPride]

People who say put an asterisk next to a championship may actually be worse than people still bitching about KD

 

[Iadien]

I would say Draymond is more valuable than Klay, but that'd make him third best. Curry and Durant are far and away the two best players on the Dubs.

I don't know. Klay is streaky, but plays great defense. Not only does he make it tough for guys like Kyrie to score. It also allows Curry to save his energy for offense, since he is as bad as Kyrie defensively.

Either way, all 4 are important.

 

[PadWarrior]

https://theringer.com/amp/p/a1566290fa26?gi=70a24d26a406

Maybe the most mind-blowing statistic from these Finals is that after three games, Curry has grabbed 18 more rebounds than Thompson has.

 

[Fjordson]

I'm already hearing fans put an asterisk on this Warriors title as it's essentially Cleveland Vs West All Stars in The Finals. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm also not impressed by this perfect run. 2017 Warriors would be like if the 96 Bulls replaced Kukoc with Karl Malone or 2002 Lakers replaced Robert Horry with Tim Duncan. Of course they should sweep with an all star team.

An asterisk because...they're too good?

Sports fans really do seem to get dumber every year.

I don't know. Klay is streaky, but plays great defense. Not only does he make it tough for guys like Kyrie to score. It also allows Curry to save his energy for offense, since he is as bad as Kyrie defensively.

Either way, all 4 are important.

The bolded is definitely not true in the slightest.

And while Klay is a really good defender, on a night to night basis Draymond's switching ability and the way he quarterbacks the defense and helps out is more important imo. Most teams don't iso as relentlessly as Kyrie so Klay's ability to play D one on one doesn't come into play nearly as much as what Draymond does.

 

[bionic77]

I would say Draymond is more valuable than Klay, but that'd make him third best. Curry and Durant are far and away the two best players on the Dubs.

You need all four of those guys to make it work and ranking is ultimately worthless, but man I feel Dray does not get his due because his impact is not as apparent because it is in boards, assists and most importantly his insanely good defense.

NC Central's coach said it best

LeVelle Moton‏Verified account
@LeVelleMoton
Ppl will never understand the value of a System in clutch situations. Lakers threw it to Kareem, Bulls had Triangle, Cavs just freelance smh
https://twitter.com/LeVelleMoton/status/872661754756698112

Again I am not shitting on LeBron, I just wonder if running it all through LeBron can make it harder than it would be for a superstar led team that has a system to fall back on. It puts so much pressure on Bron to do everything.

 

[RBelong2Us]

WOW you can't make this shit up I tell you...

This dude led the players union for a while lol

 

[Fjordson]

You need all four of those guys to make it work and ranking is ultimately worthless, but man I feel Dray does not get his due because his impact is not as apparent because it is in boards, assists and most importantly his insanely good defense.

No lies detected. The number of casuals I've seen call him a role player is wild.

 

[beat]

Is Draymond the second best player on the Warriors? You don't notice his game because he doesn't score that many points, but his impact is immediate when he is not on the floor. When he is out Golden State's defense just seems to collapse and they have to win via offense.

In these finals, by defensive net rating: yes, by far the most impactful defender. Also true through the entire 2017 playoffs.

BTW, Curry does well by on-off defensive rating for the playoffs as a whole, but quite badly in these finals, which implies no team but the Cavs has been able to successfully exploit his defense.

Everyone acts so amazed at his "efficiency" and "growth" now that he's not tied to Westbrook anymore. More horseshit. His "efficiency" and "growth" are the product of being on the floor with three other all-stars, and a roster full of dead-eye shooters (himself included, of course).

Any player is a product of the roster they're tied to and the system they play under. What happened in OKC was a failure of all of the above, don't just pin it on Westbrook. Andre Roberson and Dion Waiters don't quite create the kind of floor space for you that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson do. Put Westbrook on the floor with guys like that and his efficiency would skyrocket, too.

I thought the whole point of firing Brooks was to adopt a more efficient system. Didn't happen. Is that Donovan's fault, or Durant's, or Westbrook's? Well, Durant is the one who moved away to find a better fit, so.

 

[FZZ]

Maybe Cavs will finally switch up their rotations and do something different, even if the series is over I'd rather it go to 5 than be a clean sweep.

How do you all expect teams to guard this Warriors squad next year?

Spurs obviously had the best game plan but it seems without having a KD stopper (Kawhi) that it's next to impossible to actually get it done. Idk how you can disrupt their transition offense because it seems like everyone is able to make the best pass, and they're ALWAYS in the right place for a rebound

This is the Finals thread. Take your Lonzo shit to the offseason thread and be done with it.

I already said I'd tone it down mayne

sorry

 

[Iadien]

An asterisk because...they're too good?

Sports fans really do seem to get dumber every year.


The bolded is definitely not true in the slightest.

And while Klay is a really good defender, on a night to night basis Draymond's switching ability and the way he quarterbacks the defense and helps out is more important imo. Most teams don't iso as relentlessly as Kyrie so Klay's ability to play D one on one doesn't come into play nearly as much as what Draymond does.

You think Curry is a good defender? I must be blind. Unless you think Kyrie is even worse, which could be true. lol

 

[SwipeLeftHoney]

This dude led the players union for a while lol

Direct access to the players wives.... It's like shopping for him...

 

[beat]

NC Central's coach said it best

LeVelle Moton‏Verified account
@LeVelleMoton
Ppl will never understand the value of a System in clutch situations. Lakers threw it to Kareem, Bulls had Triangle, Cavs just freelance smh
https://twitter.com/LeVelleMoton/status/872661754756698112

Kerr would be 15% less underrated if his offense had a catchy name.

 

[PadWarrior]

CBS Sports NBA @CBSSportsNBA

Rip Hamilton believes the 2004 Pistons would beat this Warriors team

 

[Fjordson]

You think Curry is a good defender? I must be blind. Unless you think Kyrie is even worse, which could be true. lol

Good as a baseline night to night is probably too strong, but I wouldn't say bad either. His awareness as a help defender and his penchant for steals are light years ahead of someone like Kyrie on their absolute best days.

His biggest crime on defense is that he's 6-3 and kinda skinny, so yeah when he gets matched up against top wings like Lebron or Kawhi he doesn't stand much of a chance. But the number of players who can't handle someone like Lebron one on one isn't exactly small.

 

[RedAssedApe]

CBS Sports NBA @CBSSportsNBA

Rip Hamilton believes the 2004 Pistons would beat this Warriors team

2004 pistons...goat of all time. said no one.

 

[GravityInsanity]

CBS Sports NBA @CBSSportsNBA

Rip Hamilton believes the 2004 Pistons would beat this Warriors team