Durant is a better three point shooter than Kobe. That's the only area. You're not scoring at the clip Kobe did without being able to do it at an elite level from most areas.
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NBA Finals 2017 |OT| Same As It Ever Was
- Thread starter Jarate
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Durant is a better three point shooter than Kobe. That's the only area. You're not scoring at the clip Kobe did without being able to do it at an elite level from most areas.
We all know Stern made the call
beat
Member
NBA culture when KG and even when KD entered the league was that 7 footers gotta be centers or mayyyyybe PFs at a stretch. So KG didn't want to be known as a 7 footer because he had a SF's game and I guess KD doesn't for the same reason.
(Also, to my memory KG was scary thin when he first entered the league. He really bulked up over time as he grew older.)
George Claw M.D.
Member
It's a consequence of GSW's motion offense. Lots of off-ball movement, running around screens, deception. It's hard enough for a team of 5 defenders to try to keep track of everyone and the ball. Imagine how hard it is for only 3 refs to catch all the off-ball fouls when they're understandably primarily focused on the ball. The NBA is so fast. People always bitch about the refs but having 3 old dudes running back and forth with NBA-level athletes and trying to track everything makes me amazed they do as well as they do most of the time.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Yea that would never happen.
BassForever
Member
I get the nba is a hard as fuck sport to officiate, but that doesn't explain the blatant back court violations or the retcon technical foul.
Better scorer then KD?
Kareem
MJ
Wilt
Allen Iverson
Kobe
Jerry West
Oscar Robinson
Karl Malone
Gervin
those are really the only ones that stand out to me. There's probably some other old players I don't remember. KD's PPG is 4th all time right now, but we gotta wait for 35-40 year old KD to ruin his PPG stats.
Kareem
MJ
Wilt
Allen Iverson
Kobe
Jerry West
Oscar Robinson
Karl Malone
Gervin
those are really the only ones that stand out to me. There's probably some other old players I don't remember. KD's PPG is 4th all time right now, but we gotta wait for 35-40 year old KD to ruin his PPG stats.
George Claw M.D.
Member
Of course not.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
I don't buy that at all because you get the nonsense like Steph Curry getting ragdolled right in front of them, and they still won't call it. Additionally, I don't get why the refs are old in the first place. I mean the highest level of basketball in the world would be content with having a team of three old men who cannot match the speed of 20-30 year old players, let alone the speed of the game? Never mind they already have credibility issues as it is. With any job in the world, there are bound to be difficulties and reffing is no different, but that doesn't mean it's an excuse to justify incompetence. If any one of us had said "well you know x is hard, I'm just amazed I can keep up" at our jobs, we'd be laughed at. And rightfully so.
Galactic Barret
Member
Give the Warriors 22 FTA in the first quarter of Game 5, refs.
Fluffhead14
Member
The refs are not the reason the Warriors lost, end of story. Like I said last night, you're homers.
Is this the first time watching the NBA for some of you? "didn't know he could pass it to himself?" the ball hit the back board. "Stern made the call". Nevermind your dumb conspiracy theory, Adam Silver is in charge.
There were people in here crying that Draymond didn't foul Shumpert when he so blatantly elbowed him on the face. Or that Steph didn't grab Shumpert's waist on that breakaway when the replay showed he did.
The Warriors lost. It can happen. The other squad are the defending champs and have some great players on the team. Maybe realize that and stop crowning the Warriors before they actually win it?
Is this the first time watching the NBA for some of you? "didn't know he could pass it to himself?" the ball hit the back board. "Stern made the call". Nevermind your dumb conspiracy theory, Adam Silver is in charge.
There were people in here crying that Draymond didn't foul Shumpert when he so blatantly elbowed him on the face. Or that Steph didn't grab Shumpert's waist on that breakaway when the replay showed he did.
The Warriors lost. It can happen. The other squad are the defending champs and have some great players on the team. Maybe realize that and stop crowning the Warriors before they actually win it?
Fluffhead14
Member
The foul disparity was 3.
Golden State shot 5 more free throws.
Cleveland made 13 more 3's.
Warriors shot 28% from 3.
Sure, the refs decided the game. lol
Golden State shot 5 more free throws.
Cleveland made 13 more 3's.
Warriors shot 28% from 3.
Sure, the refs decided the game. lol
RBelong2Us
Member
^^
Explaining one play out of how many that went the Cavs way lol....
Yes, maybe Cavs didn't need the refs in their pockets considering how they were shooting but when you're gifted 20fts to begin the game it helps lay some type of foundation for the rest of the game .
Explaining one play out of how many that went the Cavs way lol....
Yes, maybe Cavs didn't need the refs in their pockets considering how they were shooting but when you're gifted 20fts to begin the game it helps lay some type of foundation for the rest of the game .
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
still gotta hit your shots. Cavs won convincingly. if it was really "setup" for the cavs to win, refs would have ejected Dray with 2 techs instead of changing the first tech to Kerr.
so please just stop it
RBelong2Us
Member
It was already a huge discrepancy on the scoreboard , wtf more did the refs have to do ?
The huge advantage was the 1st quarter and it set the tone for the rest of the game .
In the first quarter, Cleveland was allowed to get away with playing physical and GS wasn't.
When Cleveland got the bonus that early (6 minutes into the game if I recall), it changed the way GS could play defense.
Are there refs responsible for GS losing the game, no. However, to dismiss the impact they had on the game is wrong.
When Cleveland got the bonus that early (6 minutes into the game if I recall), it changed the way GS could play defense.
Are there refs responsible for GS losing the game, no. However, to dismiss the impact they had on the game is wrong.
Cavs also missed like 8-10 of them.
Anyway, JVG and Marc Jackson were on fire last night. Just so entertaining to listen to.
If Lue gets canned I wonder if 1 of those 2 would be interested.
FullMetaltech
Member
I agree. A lot of terrible calls. Those 3pt shots by the Cavs were great though.
Fluffhead14
Member
I was giving examples of the blatant homerism going on in this thread last night. Cavs came out of the gate hot last night, were aggressive and got the Warriors in the penalty. For you new guys, that means every foul after sends them to the line.
Do you see the Warriors crying about the refs or is it just their whiny fan base?
Fluffhead14
Member
Nevermind that the Cavs out scored the Warriors every single quarter last night.
IT WAS 8 ON 5!
IT WAS 8 ON 5!
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Cavs in 7. This was a psychological shutdown for GS.
RBelong2Us
Member
Yes exactly....one team was able to be aggressive while the other was not. That's called refs setting the tone.
Doesn't take away from Curry and Klay withering away in big moments in the finals. Exactly the reason Iggy won MVP 2 years ago. Warriors would be in the same boat as last playoffs if it wasn't for Durant. Those two need to sack up and play elite basketball in the closer.
I agree with this. if you were watching the first quarter that shit was embarrassing.
but the bad officiating evened out over the course of the game favoring no one and the warriors had plenty of opportunities to get it under 10 and they couldn't so it's still on them at the end of the day.
BassForever
Member
Refs set the tone in the first hence the insane ft disparity in that quarter. I think the cavs still would have won last night even without that since they were making so many 3's a lot of them the kind that you say "he just chucked that and got lucky". If you can tell me the cavs will make 20+ 3's in games 5/6/7 then we have ourselves a series, I just don't think that's sustainable.
Crazy Diamond
Member
That Draymond tech nonsense was on some 2002 WCF type shit. Is there an Elias stat on players who get two techs in a game without an ejection?
BassForever
Member
Crazy Diamond
Member
Man that was bogus and you know it. They had a second quarter, halftime period, and ~8 minutes of a third quarter to clarify and they waited until the moment to try and save face. That was bullshit.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
I'm a neutral fan and I still think the Warriors got jobbed by officiating. You'd have to be delusional to think they didn't have an effect on the game with the way the first quarter went. Which is a shame bc the Cavs would have won anyways without the refball.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
btw, am I the only who cant take basketball talk seriously from someone with something anime-like in their avatar? no offense, its just my natural reaction.
The refs didn't decide the game.
But I feel that when it comes to all the little fouls that happen off ball and during contact that the refs were much more efficient in calling the fouls that the Warriors were committing.
A great example of this is two plays that occurred back to back in the second half.
Warriors ball:
They have the ball top left outside the three point line. Durant is rightside baseline corner and is guarded by Jefferson. Durant cuts baseline and then up towards the ball. Jefferson maintained contact through the entire cut. Body, locking arms, shoving and trying to dictate direction. At the end of the cut when Durant hops towards the ball to catch the pass, Jefferson gives him a slight push in the back causing Durant to go off balance.
No call made - which is fine. It's a championship deciding game. Let the contact happen
Warriors miss - Cavs take possession
Cavs ball:
Cavs get the rebound and start up the floor. Durant is now guarding Jefferson. They are both a bit inside the three point line/just above the foul line.
Jefferson starts his cut/move and Durant steps into him and creates contact. It's noticeable that Durant kinda leans in and pops his shoulder into Jefferson, which in points slows Jefferson's progress for a second.
Immediate whistle - foul on Durant
Durant's shoulder was an obvious foul. But there were several easy to explain fouls committed by Jefferson in the previous play.
Maybe the ref that called the foul on Durant wasn't in a position to see how physical Jefferson was on the previous play?
Nope
That ref was standing at the baseline in clear sight of Durant and Jefferson on that previous play. It was actually his call to make given his court position.
That game was a perfect storm.
I expected the refs to be a bit biased and do what they could to create situations for the Cavs to be successful. I have been watching the NBA for 30+ years and it's just the way things go..
But , I didn't expect the Cavs to give us a record breaking performance.
There wasn't much about how that game was officiated that made the NBA look good.
The bad reffing took away from the amazing show these teams were putting on.
Refs didn't win the game.
Refs did a great job of taking momentum away from the Warriors and giving them reasons to be frustrated.
Frustration is an extremely effective method to take someone out of their game.
RBelong2Us
Member
.
Are you an NBA apologist or what dude?
You watch what you saw last night and think that's normal?
Come on, some people just need to go against the grain I guess
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
it really feels like some people responding have just started watching basketball or only watch basketball when the finals are on.
RBelong2Us
Member
You literally have not made one good point yet and called out someone for having an anime avatar, smh.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
dont really need to when enough people have and I already made a major point about the techs. When people have made up their mind on something, trying to force reasoning can be an exercise in futility. You think its rigged and refs played a part? fine. then take action and dont watch or participate. its easy
Bad officiating doesn't really need to continue once the team is highly frustrated.
Frustration can sometimes be the goal, especially with players like Draymond.
Warriors wind up spending more time trying to stay calm themselves and trying to take care of Draymomd than they do focusing on how they need to execute to get back into the game.
And then all that the refs need to do is make a call when momentum starts to shift.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
I mean I can go pull up multiple examples of shitty officiating dating back to the 2002 NBA playoffs. If you want to stan the NBA, that's your prerogative but don't act like there isn't a legit argument for officiating being overwhelmingly atrocious for a team.
Also lol @ not taking people seriously bc of their "anime like avatar." I guess that's what you'll do when you can't argue back with facts.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
ok. then why are you still watching if its so atrocious and bad and is rigged? oh right. k
RBelong2Us
Member
You're really fixated on that tech as if Draymond being ejected was going to be the point where the momentum was going to shift.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
has nothing to do with momentum. you take away one of the big four and thats a huge advantage for the cavs to ensure the victory.
just a simple fact. if you really dont think so, then you are either an idiot or dont understand. basketball. hell you might not even understand sports.
Crazy Diamond
Member
.
RBelong2Us
Member
What are you even talking about ?
They scrubbed it up when they were down nearly 20 already?
And you have the audacity to talk about delusional ? Lol
Come on Fixed... you are better than this. 😎
Our love for the game doesn't change because the officiating in a game we watched frustrated and annoyed us.
Really it's our love of the game that makes it hard to watch refs having more control in a game than they should have.
there are seriously people that think Cavs will win in 7? Like did you see the superhuman performance it took to get just one win?
With mediocre performances by Curry and Klay they were able to trail Cavs, who had a historic night, within 10-20 starting from the moment they were back double digits in the first quarter until the last few minutes when they gave up.
Cavs will not be able to repeat a 20+ three point shooting game for three games straight. This was an exceptional night for them.
With mediocre performances by Curry and Klay they were able to trail Cavs, who had a historic night, within 10-20 starting from the moment they were back double digits in the first quarter until the last few minutes when they gave up.
Cavs will not be able to repeat a 20+ three point shooting game for three games straight. This was an exceptional night for them.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
oh I am fine. but if you are bitching about officiating for years where it apparently hasnt gotten better. then why still watch? sounds like the definition of crazy. And if you think bitching about it on a gaming internet forum will change the nba and make the nba better, you are clearly mistaken
This thread has deteriorated a lot in a very short amount of time.
Refs were garbage last night but that's not a new phenomenon. That's what you expect in a elimination game in the NBA. I thought most of the calls early were against the Warriors (i.e. like when Thompson bodied Curry and they called a backcourt that was clearly a foul you can't miss that as a ref).
BUT at the end of the day the Warriors calendar out flat and the Cavs played with way more intensity. You are generally going to get more calls if you play harder.
No asterisks from me for last night. Cavs are tough to beat when JR and TT show up. Still not sure why the heck it took 3 games for Thompson to show up. It's not his first finals.
Refs were garbage last night but that's not a new phenomenon. That's what you expect in a elimination game in the NBA. I thought most of the calls early were against the Warriors (i.e. like when Thompson bodied Curry and they called a backcourt that was clearly a foul you can't miss that as a ref).
BUT at the end of the day the Warriors calendar out flat and the Cavs played with way more intensity. You are generally going to get more calls if you play harder.
No asterisks from me for last night. Cavs are tough to beat when JR and TT show up. Still not sure why the heck it took 3 games for Thompson to show up. It's not his first finals.
BassForever
Member
btw, am I the only who cant take basketball talk seriously from someone with something nfl in their avatar? no offense, its just my natural reaction.
If this thread is gonna turn into arguments over who can or can't discuss the series based upon avatars or how much they post in nba gaf we might as well not have a discussion thread at all.
If this thread is gonna turn into arguments over who can or can't discuss the series based upon avatars or how much they post in nba gaf we might as well not have a discussion thread at all.
Yes, they consistantly scrubbed it up all game. They played like shit. You don't need to give them any ref excuses. The refs did everything in their power to let the Warriors stayi n the game. Not calling flagrants on Zaza and Draymond, and calling them on Kevin Love, not ejecting Draymond.
I know it can be hard to stay objective when your team is playing like garbage.
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