LowlySmokeGuy
Banned
I bet Oklahoma is happy. Better to play a team that you already wrecked this year than one you couldn't beat in 2 games.
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NCAA March Madness 2016 - Men's Tournament |OT| Nobody is good this year
- Thread starter Randolph Freelander
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Grover Cleveland
Member
It's all coming up Roy
He can't even job to Kansas again
He can't even job to Kansas again
Elfforkusu
Member
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
Such a weird stat. Just about every year, at least half, and often the majority, of higher seeded teams will lose to a lower-seeded team. #1 vs #1 showdowns in the Final Four aren't super common. All it's really saying is that Self and K have consistently successful teams in the regular season that grants them high seeds on a regular basis.
Grover Cleveland
Member
The ACC semifinals today should be interesting
Yep.
That's a classic ESPN meaningless spin stat. Every good coach has lost a bunch of games as higher seeds.
Self's lack of FFs with his team being a top 3 seed every year is much more damning.
Yep.
That's a classic ESPN meaningless spin stat. Every good coach has lost a bunch of games as higher seeds.
Self's lack of FFs with his team being a top 3 seed every year is much more damning.
not sure about K's record. but Self's tourney record is definitely suspect. great coach but 2-6 in the Elite 8?
and those 2 wins came barely over Davidson (w/ Curry) and a Stilman White led UNC team.
then you factor in the times his teams didn't even play to seed. Mario Chalmers is the only thing holding his resume together.
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
not sure about K's record. but Self's tourney record is definitely suspect. great coach but 2-6 in the Elite 8?
and those 2 wins came barely over Davidson (w/ Curry) and a Stilman White led UNC team.
then you factor in the times his teams didn't even play to seed. Mario Chalmers is the only thing holding his resume together.
But how many coaches have even been in the EE that many times? The reason his record looks suspect is really only in comparison to coaches that are like 3-0 or 2-1, right? Is that really "better"?
Just something to consider. I'm not actually sure how I feel about it, especially without more data at hand from other coaches and programs to look at.
Pretty much. Though at least one mock I've seen has him at 3.
Simmons and Ingram will be 1 and 2 though. From there things get a bit scattershot depending on who picks. But he seems to be top 6 in most mocks I've seen. Often coming to my Pelicans which I would be ok with.
That and he's only 6-4 and doesn't play point guard. A bit undersized for a shooting guard these days. He'll still go top 10, though. Just too good not to.
Hield will go top 10, but I think he's going to top out as a Jamal Crawford type sixth man that can get you quick buckets against 2nd units. A valuable rotational player, but he's not going to be a superstar IMO. I would take both Ingram and Simmons over him for sure, and probably Bender and Murray. But after that, wouldn't be surprised to see him go anywhere from 5-8. Think he'd fit well on the Wolves, Pelicans, or Kings (Kings would prob ruin him though trying to shoehorn him into the superstar 2G role like they did with McLenore and Stauskas).
The way I've always judged it (and I admit it's harsh) if you're coaching a blueblood program you don't get out of bed for anything before the Elite 8 so that's bare minimum expectation to me. The 2-4 in the Elite 8 @ Kansas is just really glaring to me.
my numbers might be a bit off cause i'm trying to rush through it. i included some other records where coaches were at another blueblood
Self @ Kansas
13 seasons
2-4 in Elite 8 (did also take Tulsa and Illinois to Elite 8)
1 ring
Shady @ Kentucky
7 seasons
4-1 in the Elite 8
1 ring
Roy @ Carolina
13 seasons
3-3 in Elite 8 with tonights game on deck (also 4-1 at Kansas)
2 rings
K @ Duke
too many seasons smh go away Coach K.
12-2 in the Elite 8 (jesus)
5 rings
Slick Rick @ Louisville
15 seasons
3-3 in Elite 8 (also 3-2 at Kentucky)
1 ring (also 1 Kentucky ring)
Nosepicker @ Syracuse - wiki has 3 of his mid-00s seasons wiped for NCAA issues so im not sure what happened in those years
like 40 seasons
4-2 in Elite 8 w/ the game tonight on deck (can't believe he's only been 7 times)
1 ring
Crean @ Indiana - did have to do some rebuilding after NCAA issues but once he got it together he still hasn't been able to perform in the tournament. this season saved his ass imo.
8 seasons
no Elite 8 apperances
no ring
Izzo @ Mich St - it's not a blueblood but people consider him an elite coach now
20 seasons
7-2 in Elite 8
1 ring
so like it's not terrible for Self considering he's taken 3 schools to Elite 8s and he gets there at a reasonable clip. But once he gets there good fucking luck. it really gets a bit suspect. out of the blueblood bunch right now i'd only say he's better than Boeheim (never bet on Cuse in the tourney) and comfortably Crean.
didn't bother w/ UCLA because I know their coach & program aint shit.
if i had time i'd check out how each coach/team did against seed in the years they didn't reach the Elite 8. maybe in the offseason while we're waiting on the new thread.
It's awful
I know the other game is going on, but one thing i notice that Bill Self does is he honestly has some of the worst basketball strategies ive ever seen from a top flight coach. Like his basis for his teams are "im way more athletic then you, so im going to run you ot of the building"
Unlike Coach K, and coach cal, others who always seemingly get top flight talent on their team, he doesnt ever seem to want to coach his players into actually learning how to defend properly and how to set up a half court offense. It's probably why he does so bad when he gets to the elite eight, where his talented players actually play against similar talent pools. You dont win with that style of play against really top tier teams. Cal is honestly one of the best defensive coaches, and Coack K teaches his player to play within the system as well. Bill Self kind of just hopes his teams can outrun the other team.
UVA is basically Wisconsin 2.0 who has always really struggled against the Zone of Syracuse, and Syracuse literally got one of the easiest paths to the Elite Eight Ive ever seen.
Unlike Coach K, and coach cal, others who always seemingly get top flight talent on their team, he doesnt ever seem to want to coach his players into actually learning how to defend properly and how to set up a half court offense. It's probably why he does so bad when he gets to the elite eight, where his talented players actually play against similar talent pools. You dont win with that style of play against really top tier teams. Cal is honestly one of the best defensive coaches, and Coack K teaches his player to play within the system as well. Bill Self kind of just hopes his teams can outrun the other team.
UVA is basically Wisconsin 2.0 who has always really struggled against the Zone of Syracuse, and Syracuse literally got one of the easiest paths to the Elite Eight Ive ever seen.
No shit. It's a miracle they got in the tournament and an albatross that they made it this far.
Sometimes they make a deep run because the teams they draw aren't used to Boeheim's zone d. But yeah, they were awful all year.
metalslimer
Member
Oh my god
this wait has been unbearable lmao. not sure why the tourney decided that other than the first round all of our games would be the last one of the night.
Self like Roy is a system coach and they run into similar issues. Self makes better in-game adjustments and he's probably better at maintaining roster balance year after year. But over the course of the season Roy makes better adjustments and we always play our best ball in the ACC and NCAA tourneys. Self would have to step it up a notch if he coached in the ACC. I think Kruger will put some pressure on him in the B12 though.
I've got all the respect in the world for Shady's in-game coaching. I think he's the best coach out right now.
Grover Cleveland
Member
If Boeheim takes this trash ass team to the Final Four...
lol spoke too soon.
Not really. This is very albatross-y.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Wahoos, what are you doing.
Tony Bennett looked shellshocked.
sf2fanatic
Member
Richardson on fire!!
Incredible adjustment and more importantly dedication by Syracuse with the press. It totally changed the game. You wouldn't necessarily expect if from a Boeheim coached team, so much credit due.
Richardson is putting on a hell of a show.
Terrible quick 3 by Cuse and even worse foul. That's a huge mistake.
Richardson is putting on a hell of a show.
Terrible quick 3 by Cuse and even worse foul. That's a huge mistake.
Grover Cleveland
Member
This is a hell of a way to end UVa's run.
They're done being contenders after this year
They're done being contenders after this year
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