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New ambilight- like HDMI 2.1 sync-box (and lights) : Lytmi fantasy 3

I have had the Phillips Hue Sync Box for several years now, and it is awesome. How well it works though depends on the what you are watching and what settings you have it on:

  • gaming - works great! It really adds a level of immersion to the game. I usually set the lights to max brightness and intensity to "Extreme". All games work well with this IMO. Explosions seem to go across your wall. Red flash notifications from from taking damage is more noticeable. Even subtle things like shadows from passing trees in racing games are cool due to the lights dimming for the shadows, making as if the lighting in the gaming world is impacting your world.
  • concerts - during COVID some of my favorite bands were doing live concert streams, and the sync lights were great with them. Makes it feel like the light show from the concert is happening in your room. I would try to have the brightness match the level of my TV and set intensity to "Extreme".
  • WWE events - similar to concerts, the intros and lighting of the matches work well with the sync lights. Makes you feel like you are there. During the matches however, it is not as immersive. I would set the lights to match the brightness of the TV and set the intensity to "High.
  • SciFi/Animation/sFX movies - if a movie is full of special effects or is an animated film, it works really good as well. StarWars is great with the light of the lightsabers making the room glow and the red lasers form the spaceship battles make the room flash. Animated movies can glow as well. Lion King's intro is a good demo for people. Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse is also great. For these, I usually have the lights set to be either just below the brightness or matching the TV and set the intensity to "High"
  • Normal TV watching/sports - for everyday TV watching, dramas, or watching live sports it can become distracting if the settings are not set up correctly. Especially if there are a lot of camera cuts, causing the lights to change real quick without any "action" for the lights to react to. Example, just cuts going back and forth between people talking. However, you can still make the sync lights work well in these situations, making them good bias lighting that matches the colors on the screen. For these, I make the lights brightness to be a little bit lower than the TV's and also the setting to be on "Moderate" or "Subtle".
For those who find it distracting, the key is to make the brightness match the TV's brightness or for it be slightly lower than the TV's. when you do this, the light is more of an extension of the light coming off of the TV. If the brightness is brighter than the TV, then everytime the light changes your eyes want to look at it. I do not have this issue when playing video games, so I leave it brighter when playing. This makes me notice the lights more for playing games. With watching movies and TV, I want the extra light to disappear more, so I set it to be at the brightness of the TV or under it. When set this way, I have found most people who thinks it would be distracting does not find it to be so and actually likes it.

As for HDMI 2.1, it is a bummer that it is not compatible. However, I have my setup in a way where I can optionally use it with games. This way sometimes I use the SyncBox with games and other times I am using HDMI 2.1 features with games. Not all games need VRR or do 120hz, so having the optional ways to hook it helps. Here is how I have it setup:
  1. PS5, XSX, switch, 4k UHD Player, and 4K Chromecast are hooked up to my Onkyo HDMI 2.1 AV Receiver
  2. HDMI Out A on the receiver is hooked up to my TV's eARC input that also supports HDMI 2.1
  3. HDMI Out B on the receiver is hooked up to the Sync Box, and the Sync Box is hooked up another HDMI port on the TV
  4. When wanting to use HDMI 2.1 features, I send the video through HDMI out A
  5. When wanting to use the sync box, I send video through HDMI out B

Nice write-up friend ;)

Here's the thing though : People interested in Ambilight (or Hue) already know that it works well, the problem lies in the fact that...it can cost up to 500+ Eurodollars (depending on the number of lamps that you want to add) for the privilege of being able to use it, this is why people are interested in cheaper, 3rd party alternatives.


Native Ambilight on Philips TVs is amazeballs, Hue is a close 2nd and everything else (Govee, Lytmi etc) come - obviously - last either because the light response is bad, color representation is off and/or many new HDMI 2.1 features aren't supported...
Ambilight is supported properly on new, HDMI 2.1 Philips TVs so i can't understand why many new 3rd party options are stil 4K60 only - i don't think that Philips has patented such a thing so the only reason i can come up with is said companies skimping on hardware trying to sell their products at a 9somewhat) reasonable cost.

Anyway, Philips has released its 2.1 syncbox and while it supports VRR and 120Hz, it has problems with HDR (colour accuracy).
Lytmi Fantasy 3 PRO supports 4K120 BUT, not VRR.

Apparently - and i can't vouch for the brand - but FANCYLEDS has released a fully operational HDMI 2.1 syncbox , meaning, it does 4K120, supports ALLM and VRR and HDR properly, here's a video in action if anyone's interested - it's 214 Eurodollars for the 55'' version btw :



EDIT : the CATCH is that...it only has 1 HDMI in port LMFAO ! man, fook these cheap-ass companies !
 
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Bond007

Member
Added to my Amazon "save for later pile" so i can monitor the price for sales over time.
This would be a great replacement to the lighting i already have.
 

ahtlas7

Member
Nice write-up friend ;)

Here's the thing though : People interested in Ambilight (or Hue) already know that it works well, the problem lies in the fact that...it can cost up to 500+ Eurodollars (depending on the number of lamps that you want to add) for the privilege of being able to use it, this is why people are interested in cheaper, 3rd party alternatives.


Native Ambilight on Philips TVs is amazeballs, Hue is a close 2nd and everything else (Govee, Lytmi etc) come - obviously - last either because the light response is bad, color representation is off and/or many new HDMI 2.1 features aren't supported...
Ambilight is supported properly on new, HDMI 2.1 Philips TVs so i can't understand why many new 3rd party options are stil 4K60 only - i don't think that Philips has patented such a thing so the only reason i can come up with is said companies skimping on hardware trying to sell their products at a 9somewhat) reasonable cost.

Anyway, Philips has released its 2.1 syncbox and while it supports VRR and 120Hz, it has problems with HDR (colour accuracy).
Lytmi Fantasy 3 PRO supports 4K120 BUT, not VRR.

Apparently - and i can't vouch for the brand - but FANCYLEDS has released a fully operational HDMI 2.1 syncbox , meaning, it does 4K120, supports ALLM and VRR and HDR properly, here's a video in action if anyone's interested - it's 214 Eurodollars for the 55'' version btw :



EDIT : the CATCH is that...it only has 1 HDMI in port LMFAO ! man, fook these cheap-ass companies !

I’m interested in this but evidently it adds 10ms lag.
 

knitoe

Member
Anyway, Philips has released its 2.1 syncbox and while it supports VRR and 120Hz, it has problems with HDR (colour accuracy).
Lytmi Fantasy 3 PRO supports 4K120 BUT, not VRR.

Apparently - and i can't vouch for the brand - but FANCYLEDS has released a fully operational HDMI 2.1 syncbox , meaning, it does 4K120, supports ALLM and VRR and HDR properly, here's a video in action if anyone's interested - it's 214 Eurodollars for the 55'' version btw :



EDIT : the CATCH is that...it only has 1 HDMI in port LMFAO ! man, fook these cheap-ass companies !

When, did Philips release their 2.1 syncbox? I been googling of current options. No mention, it was released.

Lytmi Fantasy Pro 3 does VRR, but it seems to have random black screen issue which requires rebooting by unplugging.

My Fancyleds in shipping. Only one heard works without any issue. Already running 4K@120Hz, HDR, VRR and Atmos so 1 HDMI shouldn’t be an issue.
 
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King Dazzar

Member
I've tried 2 x Philips Hue Sync boxes. Both of them would work fine a lot of the time and then another time they'd need the box rebooting. In the end I got rid of it due it being unreliable and a bit flaky. I got around the HDMI 2.1 issues by using a 2.1 splitter. The only really reliable active hue lighting solution I found was my Philips OLED with the onboard ambilight - it was flawless. All other solutions seem to be quirky or at the very least have some draw backs.

I do however continue to use lots of Philips hue lighting including the full TV mounted hue strip. But I just use it static as the box had issues I've covered... all works brilliantly with Alexa too if that helps.
 
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With a Hue Sync, when I play with latency-sensitive games like Stepmania (DDR for PC) there is lag introduced that ruins the game (usually milliseconds not noticeable in other games). Will there be that lag with this? I imagine it's unavoidable since the box needs to process the video and it's not straight passthrough?
 

King Dazzar

Member
With a Hue Sync, when I play with latency-sensitive games like Stepmania (DDR for PC) there is lag introduced that ruins the game (usually milliseconds not noticeable in other games). Will there be that lag with this? I imagine it's unavoidable since the box needs to process the video and it's not straight passthrough?
You can avoid latency and VRR issues by using an HDMI 2.1 splitter. You'll need to look into it yourself though as its too much for me to go through in detail. But essentially you can have one stream go to the TV and another go to a Hue Sync box. Which means the stream going to the TV is unaltered.
 
I liked ambient lighting a ton until I went oled.

I have an OLED and I still love ambilight.

I get that Ambilight on Philips LEDs could also help with the screen's perceived contrast by the viewer but they also put ambilight on their OLEDs , in fact, one of the their OLEDs from 2 years ago IIRC was considered to be one of the best in the market 😉

Always IMO, I don't think that Ambilight detracts from the OLED "experience", besides, you can always turn the AL's brightness down so...

Cheers
 

CGNoire

Member
Immersion is forgeting everything outside the screen exists. This is just making sure the lighting around your TV always matches the hue of the screen. Unless you just hate watching TV with the lights off this just seems like a Gimmick.
 
I liked ambient lighting a ton until I went oled.
I have an OLED and I still love ambilight.

I get that Ambilight on Philips LEDs could also help with the screen's perceived contrast by the viewer but they also put ambilight on their OLEDs , in fact, one of the their OLEDs from 2 years ago IIRC was considered to be one of the best in the market 😉

Always IMO, I don't think that Ambilight detracts from the OLED "experience", besides, you can always turn the AL's brightness down so...

Cheers
There are no issues with ambilight and OLED whatsoever.

Playing in game mode when you enter dark rooms ingame ambilight is turned off.
 

Codeblew

Member
Just saw sorry I’m getting one always liked these and will look excellent with the pro!
Yeah, I am thinking the same thing! I have the Pro pre-ordered and I am going to get a new 65" TV around Black Friday time-frame. This would be the perfect complement to the setup.
 
PC Case christmas tree
Back TV christmas tree

I will never understand.
Yeah Christmas three.😂🤣🤦
IMG-20230226-000402.jpg

IMG-20221106-143350.jpg

IMG-20220903-235454.jpg
 

King Dazzar

Member
I've been using the 8k Hue Sync box for over two weeks now. And its been very good. More reliable than the previous one and runs cooler too. Whilst it has been fine with 4k 120hz VRR. I did have an issue one evening with no signal coming from the XSX - but I think this maybe an issue with the XSX and nothing to do with the sync box, as changing the power off standby option in XSX appears to have resolved.

I returned the original hue sync box. But I believe this new 8k one is a keeper.
 

King Dazzar

Member
PC Case christmas tree
Back TV christmas tree

I will never understand.
Helps your eyes in dark environments as it blends the peripheral vision and in doing so increases immersion whilst reducing eye strain. You just have to set it to not be too intrusive or aggressive in terms of brightness level and speed. Personally I only use mine for gaming though, where it excels. Films can be good, but if you have a camera constantly flicking between characters or perspectives, it may start to distract. Gaming though is superb as it just tends to follow you as you go through environments.
 
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King Dazzar

Member
These sync boxes don't work with the tv's own apps right?
Hue sync box is for HDMI sources only. Hue sync app can work with PC and there's another app specifically for Samsung TV's which costs £100+. The Samsung option will capture anything on the TV screen. You can go Govee which uses a camera. But mixed reports on quality.
 
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llien

Member
I feel like an official HDMI version* of ambient lighting could and should have been introduced by now.
What does it have to do with HDMI though?

I watch a lot of contents (Netflix and co) directly on TV.

A standardized protocol for led stripes talking over USB ports would be the best approach.

This also makes me wonder if there is anything from the groups that hack TV firmware (e.g. sammygo).

Fuck HDMI forum, that created this mess to not let something get pirated, then it still gets pirated, but we end up with useless piece of encryption shit and hefty licensing fees.
 

CamHostage

Member
What does it have to do with HDMI though?

I watch a lot of contents (Netflix and co) directly on TV.

Because that's where the AV stream is largely coming from.

Whether it's a game running on your console or media PC, or a stream from Netflix, or playback of DVD/BD, or a home movie running off a memory card, the information needed to drive the background lights comes from a video source. The most popular means of getting video from a playback box to a television (and then ideally to a backlight driver) is an HDMI cord. (Yes, your Netflix streams are caught right there by your smart TV and never has to go through another cord once it reaches your TV, but ultimately the signal needs to be encoded similarly with or without a middleman box. And the HDMI consortium, in coordination with ITU and SMPTE and whoever else, would be the group that would get together to decide how to best make that happen.)

If ever a standard were to be created for backlights, HDMI Licensing Administrator would be a primary participant in writing/deploying the protocol.

And since they didn't make that protocol, what we've got is only as good as what Philips can do exclusively and what small-time manufacturers can kludge out of your existing devices.

A standardized protocol for led stripes talking over USB ports would be the best approach.

You could add a protocol at the player level for USB to a bridge accessory to drive lights on supported video applications and media streams, sure. That's already possible if a manufacturer wanted to add that. But A. it would then be proprietary and would require dedicated hardware, which would be no difference from the Hue situation we have now, and B. few media providers would adapt it since they don't own or participate in the standard.


(*You're not going to get a "standardized protocol" over USB, BTW. It's not really a realm of "standardizations". Even the few "standards" that USB does offer like Game Input Control are still a mess of adherences. Nobody's there to regulate this, unlike HDMI and its consortium, which has its drawbacks of being the boss over its standards and security systems but at least pretty much everything plugs and plays. So, nobody would agree to a single backlight approach, same as how Active 3D TVs just need a RF or BT pulse to synch the shutters but all the manufacturers did it different and nobody made enough money to keep it going and now 3D is nonexistent even though 3D would be easier and higher-quality than before thanks to today's smart TVs.)

(**But also, if you're just going to have a device talk directly to a LED stripe bridge, you don't need it to be a cord, you could do that wirelessly through BT or another radio signal. It wouldn't have to be a very big signal, or even a very fast signal, though there could be additional benefits to it being big and fast.)

Fuck HDMI forum, that created this mess to not let something get pirated, then it still gets pirated, but we end up with useless piece of encryption shit and hefty licensing fees.

OK, yes, there are lots of reasons to hate the conglomerate consortiums who make rules about standards (particularly because their first priority is to make a system that generates/protects the most money for those who use it.) However, these consortiums are a necessary element in getting what we want: all our stuff to work the same when we plug them in. And without consortiums consorting together, sometimes good ideas just never happen because they're too big for one company to get started, and/or when a company does go it alone, it's proprietary and limited. That's what happened with smart lights and why there's so little competition against, and such a high price for, Philips' Ambilight.
 
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CamHostage

Member
(This isn't wholly relevant to the Lytmi Fantasy device, but since we rarely talk backlights here, I figured this chunk might still be informative... even though I'm now realizing I posted most of this same ramble a year ago earlier in this thread...)

What background light needs/needed to really be something is a standardized, authored stream from the source, mastered either by the studio or an AI application for the optimal impact.

So, currently solutions like Ambilight provide their lighting effects by analyzing the video stream as it is provided in realtime. It has to guess what would look best, based on what it sees on screen at any one time. Some scenes are easy; if you see the outdoors and a lot of grass, the lights will be mostly green, if it's in a submarine then probably you'll get a lot of blue lights, if a gun is firing hopefully the lights flash quick brights. There's some thinkiness to its algorithm, as it has to average the color and brightness across the whole scene (otherwise you would just get color extended from the very edges, and most times your Amblight would just be showing shades of blue sky,) and it also has to make some assumptions of averaging across time (otherwise a Michael Bay movie would be a freakout shitshow of random lights dashing and flashing for every fast-cut action scene.)

TPVision-PressRelease-OLED959-2024-00.jpg


This promo image for Ambilight is a perfect example of what you want from the system, extending the visually exciting elements out into your whole home...

...it is also probably bullshit, since the colors it is picking out are so specific and perfect in what they chose to accent. (Especially the reds in the top corners coming out across the corner span from just those two little red streaks, or the lower orange/blue corners being so dominant when the brightness is hardly there in the picture. Also overall resolution and dark spots don't make a lot of sense of how many LEDs your kit would include back there.) If Ambilight can/does do a backlight effect this well, great! But this is probably done by hand, which is why I'm saying that for it to work this well, it would probably need to be done beforehand.

If there was a standard "Backlight Stream" in a video signal, most products would just go for a generic solution, not too different from what your TV does now by reading the image from the video stream, and that would be fine. However, the few products that were cared for could be awesome, customized multisensory experiences. Also, even those mastered generically would still often be better since the AI wouldn't need to be guessing at light values from images in realtime; it could analyze several seconds of video to choose its lighting effects and bake those down for every scene. Even live feeds could be better, because for example a sports game could stay mostly green for the field, even though its close-ups have many more clashing, busy colors in them.

Having it mastered beforehand (or in games, having it controllable by the source device in game code,) would also allow for custom solutions. So a game could flash when you get shot even if the image doesn't have the flash on-screen. Or there could be just a gray shimmering light in say Silent Hill to accentuate when you are out in the fog.

Razer actually has some of these customized backlight features built into its Razer Chroma system. Razer also has some extra cool stuff for people with Nanoleaf panels or LED keyboard/mouse devices where they light up with special patterns or colors according to in-game triggers. However, it's proprietary, so few games support it and it doesn't do anything with your PS/Xbox games or your Netflix movies or anything on your TV.

(BTW, since I'm bringing up the loose concept of a backlight standard, there could also have been/be a standardized channel for haptics as well. 4D up your apartment!)
 
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Rivdoric

Member
Helps your eyes in dark environments as it blends the peripheral vision and in doing so increases immersion whilst reducing eye strain. You just have to set it to not be too intrusive or aggressive in terms of brightness level and speed. Personally I only use mine for gaming though, where it excels. Films can be good, but if you have a camera constantly flicking between characters or perspectives, it may start to distract. Gaming though is superb as it just tends to follow you as you go through environments.

Thanks for thorough explanation. I don't think i'll ever get one but i get the point.
 

llien

Member
OK, yes, there are lots of reasons to hate the conglomerate consortiums who make rules about standards (particularly because their first priority is to make a system that generates/protects the most money for those who use it.) However, these consortiums are a necessary element in getting what we want: all our stuff to work the same when we plug them in.
Well, there are orgs that roll out standards without BS encryption and without licensing fees.
E.g. VESA standards. Or, god forbid, HDR10(+).

I'm also pretty sure nobody gets money for each USB port on a device. Quite different from HDMI.

--------------------

Anyhow, not to derail a bit, as most of the stuff I watch is rendered directly by TV, the external box is not an option for me.

As I was stupido enough to upgrade FW on my TVs, rooting is not an option.
Besides, they say even on the rooted TVs, if they are relatively new, it's not possible to grab the content of framebuffer. :(
So, "over HDMI only" again.

Then I considered the camera based solutions.
Govee.
89 Euro before 25% discount (cheap?).

And then... I saw the video in one of the reviews:


Meh, no thanks. :(
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
You can avoid latency and VRR issues by using an HDMI 2.1 splitter. You'll need to look into it yourself though as its too much for me to go through in detail. But essentially you can have one stream go to the TV and another go to a Hue Sync box. Which means the stream going to the TV is unaltered.
Splitters can add input lag though.
 

King Dazzar

Member
Splitters can add input lag though.
Sure as can AVR's. But I didnt notice any with my ezco one. I have since moved away from all that though and gone for the 8k box. Which of course negates the need for a splitter. The 8k sync box appears to be doing a straight pass through (whilst allowing data extraction for the sync) with no additional input lag that I can tell.
 
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