Dark Cloud
Member
Umm how's it's dead as a series? Hyperbole much?
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New Paper Mario Interview (Leaving pure RPG to M&L, TTYD remaster is possible & more)
- Thread starter Richie
- Start date
Shotgun Kiss
Member
That's it then; the Paper Mario series is completely dead to me now, besides the incredibly ambiguous non-promise of remastered tTYD.
I'm glad OP has those two questions first, because I can completely disregard all the others. I don't give a fuck about Color Splash or any other new Paper Mario games until they change their minds.
Mario & Luigi is NOT an acceptable Paper Mario substitute. Even the best games in the series don't touch the first two Paper Mario games. And the last M&L was uninspired crap.
Thanks for killing one of my favourite series, Nintendo.
I hope Color Splash fucking bombs, so she can see how stupid this decision is.
Everyone, if this new direction for Paper Mario upsets you, don't buy it. Speak with your wallets.
I'm glad OP has those two questions first, because I can completely disregard all the others. I don't give a fuck about Color Splash or any other new Paper Mario games until they change their minds.
Mario & Luigi is NOT an acceptable Paper Mario substitute. Even the best games in the series don't touch the first two Paper Mario games. And the last M&L was uninspired crap.
Thanks for killing one of my favourite series, Nintendo.
I hope Color Splash fucking bombs, so she can see how stupid this decision is.
Everyone, if this new direction for Paper Mario upsets you, don't buy it. Speak with your wallets.
Prevolition
Member
Just bring back Super Mario RPG. LotSS did everything right and all other RPG attempts beyond the first couple Paper Mario games have been weak.
Telephone Man
Member
That's annoying since I still have no desire to play M&L Dream Team or Paper Jam. The former is apparently slow and tutorial-heavy, and the latter's cast is just nothing but Toads.
Guess RPGs in the Mario franchise are dead to me for now.
Guess RPGs in the Mario franchise are dead to me for now.
SapphireZora
Neo Member
I'd like to add my voice to those clamoring for a TTYD remaster. The original Paper Mario and TTYD are among my favorite games of all time. I even loved a lot of Super Paper Mario. I try to not be hyperbolic about most things, but I can honestly say Sticker Star is the most disappointing game I've ever played. They gutted a series I loved and literally discouraged me from engaging with the battle system. I was incredibly bummed to see Color Splash was following in SS's footsteps.
I'd love a Paper Mario 64 / Paper Mario: Thousand-Year Door HD set, even if it isn't likely.
I'd love a Paper Mario 64 / Paper Mario: Thousand-Year Door HD set, even if it isn't likely.
skLaFarebear
Member
Superstar Saga and Bowser's Inside Story are absolutely fantastic games. Partners in Times less so, but it's still a very solid game. Haven't played Dream Team or Paper Jam, but I hear pretty good things about the latter besides the occasional frustrating minigame.
Edit: Don't really care about the RPG mechanics since SPM proved that even without it you can still be an amazing PM game. Hearing that Color Splash won't be focusing on the fun characters that the first 3 PMs had is really sad since they're the ones that drove the humor and story which made PM so fun.
When 'Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash' was coming out, I had avoided it like the plague. Even when I was offered a free copy of the game at a Nintendo event, I flatly (but politely) refused to take it. Everything about the game screamed that it was rushed out to make the 2015 holiday season, and I wasn't impressed when I played the demo.
In the case for Colour Splash, everything about the game screams like it's 'Paper Mario: Sticker Star 2', and it seems Intelligent Systems didn't listen to the criticisms, so I'm going to avoid it at all costs.
It's so unreal to read this coming from the horses mouth. I get where they're coming from and what they're trying to accomplish, focusing on making Paper Mario it's own thing, but as a bunch of other posters have suggested, gameplay aside, it's lost so much that the series can't even stand on it's own merits anymore.
Have they never heard the saying, "If it's not broken, don't fix it"?
EDIT: I'd buy a Paper Mario or Thousand Year Door remake in a heartbeat. Guess why? Because they're GOOD games first and foremost.
ShironRedshift
Member
Definitely wouldn't mind that. Especially since to this day, Super Mario RPG still has one of my favorite characterizations of Bowser. His interaction with his former troops in Monstro Town and stuff was great and it helped to make sense of why he's "King Koopa" other than just pure brute force and because Nintendo says so. It's definitely been kinda sad to see things regress to Bowser unequivocally treating the Koopa Troop like complete trash in the RPGs anyway and them either joking about it or worshiping him anyway. The writing and characterization in that game was definitely on point, without even talking about the gameplay, so to see that come back would definitely be great. I mean, stuff like that might just be small details that don't seem like they should individually matter or mean much, but they all came together to form a wonderful package in Super Mario RPG that really did just work and shine.
Wow. Well that just crushed the tiny bit of hope I had left of getting a quality paper Mario game anytime soon 
I literally got into M&L because of Paper Mario. I was told 'Mario and Luigi is kinda like Paper Mario', which was the only reason I bought it. So much for cannibalising! And I did like those games, but nowhere near as much as Paper Mario. And now even M&L has gone downhill.
Dammit Nintendo! You're doing everything right with Zelda but everything wrong with Paper Mario
And yes I would so buy a remake of either of the first two PM games.
I literally got into M&L because of Paper Mario. I was told 'Mario and Luigi is kinda like Paper Mario', which was the only reason I bought it. So much for cannibalising! And I did like those games, but nowhere near as much as Paper Mario. And now even M&L has gone downhill.
Dammit Nintendo! You're doing everything right with Zelda but everything wrong with Paper Mario
And yes I would so buy a remake of either of the first two PM games.
Diddy Kong
Banned
Very disappointing to hear. Give me TTYD Remaster and I'll never touch the series again.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
That's a good comparison actually. Mario Tennis Open on 3DS killed my interest in the Mario Tennis series, and Sticker Star killed my interest in Paper Mario (although I also hated Super Paper Mario, though I had hoped that was a one-off).
So yeah, they're kidding themselves if they think I'm going to buy the next games in the respective series, when they both look like they're just repeating the same mistakes.
Oh well.
In a way, I appreciate the honesty.
It's a shame actually, because Colour Splash looks charming as fuck and the humour seems pretty on point. If thry can just make sure the battle mechanics are on point and add original characters, then I think people would be behind it a lot more.
In a way, I appreciate the honesty.
It's a shame actually, because Colour Splash looks charming as fuck and the humour seems pretty on point. If thry can just make sure the battle mechanics are on point and add original characters, then I think people would be behind it a lot more.
Yeah, good point, Super Paper Mario was kind of like the bridge between the new style of Paper Mario and the old style. It still had new characters and traditional Int Systems writing, but yeah, now, after that Miyamoto mandate, Paper Mario has been something else for a while. The only thematic elements that carry over now is just the paper craft motif.
I should play TTYD again, it's been too long.
I should play TTYD again, it's been too long.
Simbabbad
Member
Have you even watched the trailer/Treehouse stream?
OK, this thread is far too silly for me.
To put a pin on the point, I think the main problem with the Paper Mario series is consistency. It was born as an experimental RPG on the Nintendo64, which matured exponentially on TTYD with a battle system that had LOADS to offer (every battle takes place in a theater stage) and a compelling, well-planned story.
Then, the Paper Mario series entered a weird "puberty" phase, where it lost it's very essence and reduced it to paper gimmicks.
Super Paper Mario was a nice and polished game, but it lacked the flow of the previous ones as it was a platformer whose RPG elements proved to be unnecessary.
Sticker Star was an attempt to go back to form, but as the interview states, that attitude of "leave RPG stuff to Mario&Luigi" left Paper Mario with a loss of entity: "If M&L uses proper battle mechanics and character levelling, what do I have?" The result is the much-loathed battle system of Sticker Star, with bosses that lack strategy and guidance for the player on how to progress. And don't make me talk about the bigger stickers (the fan, the cat statue, etc), all flash and no substance.
(M&L Paper Jam doesn't count since it's a filler game)
Now Color Splash features almost literally the same stuff fans hated on Sticker Star, but with prettier graphics. Well, let Nintendo learn from this one, if it can.
Paper Mario was born to be a quirky, well-produced RPG franchise, but all this flashy BS they like to throw at it only hurts its reputation down the line.
Then, the Paper Mario series entered a weird "puberty" phase, where it lost it's very essence and reduced it to paper gimmicks.
Super Paper Mario was a nice and polished game, but it lacked the flow of the previous ones as it was a platformer whose RPG elements proved to be unnecessary.
Sticker Star was an attempt to go back to form, but as the interview states, that attitude of "leave RPG stuff to Mario&Luigi" left Paper Mario with a loss of entity: "If M&L uses proper battle mechanics and character levelling, what do I have?" The result is the much-loathed battle system of Sticker Star, with bosses that lack strategy and guidance for the player on how to progress. And don't make me talk about the bigger stickers (the fan, the cat statue, etc), all flash and no substance.
(M&L Paper Jam doesn't count since it's a filler game)
Now Color Splash features almost literally the same stuff fans hated on Sticker Star, but with prettier graphics. Well, let Nintendo learn from this one, if it can.
Paper Mario was born to be a quirky, well-produced RPG franchise, but all this flashy BS they like to throw at it only hurts its reputation down the line.
I always follow the philosophy that if a game is good, then I'll buy it to support the developers that created it. Same thing goes if it's a new IP that offers a fun mechanic or a development studio had to jump through a lot of hoops to get a game localized. It's the reason why 'Dragon Quest VII' & 'Ever Oasis' are on my wish list, while the likes of Colour Splash isn't even going to get my attention.
Besides, if I need my fix for some mascot-focused tennis, then I can either pop in the Nintendo 64 Mario Tennis or 'Sega Superstars Tennis', both of which are incredibly fun arcade-style tennis games. And then I got the excellent 'Steven Universe: Attack the Light' or 'South Park: The Stick of Truth', both of which had mainly drawn inspiration from Paper Mario's quick-time combat system and turn-based role-playing mechanics.
I really don't get this. Why do they feel they only need one RPG set of spin-offs? It's not like they were even on the same platform, Paper Mario was (well, used to be) only on consoles with the M&L games being for handhelds.
This is really disappointing, I used to love Paper Mario.
This is really disappointing, I used to love Paper Mario.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Shame, because sticker star would have been a much better game if the characters/story weren't terribly boring, and they had the thousand years door battle system.
It really doesn't help that they're making the Mario and Luigi series as by the numbers as they can too... and it certainly doesn't scratch the paper Mario itch.
It really doesn't help that they're making the Mario and Luigi series as by the numbers as they can too... and it certainly doesn't scratch the paper Mario itch.
I will say that I don't really understand the logic behind the decision. I don't think there was ever an issue with the two series cannibalising each other - partciularly since M&L was primarily a handheld series and PM used to be rooted to consoles.
I still hope for a console Mario & Luigi
Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door represents the very best of Intelligent Systems and Nintendo's "magic" when it comes to Mario. Excellent localisation, witty and genuinely funny/charming/touching dialogue, an expansion of the Mario franchise with new characters, species and places, lots of colour, a cool aesthetic, fun RPG battle system, replayability (playing through scenes with different partners for different dialogue + different coloured Yoshi), and a conscious effort to provide innovation and a genuinely new and different Mario experience.
Why why why do they just not have some series and gameplay consistency while adding new features? They could have kept the RPG battle system/partners/expanding upon the Mario mythos they had in the first two Paper Mario titles while also introducing these new paint mechanics.
It's not just Paper Mario this has happened to, but several other 1st party titles from Nintendo, like Metroid: Other M, Mario Party 10 and Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash. You can't tell me any of those didn't disappoint fans/omit and lack content/features and gameplay that people liked from past entries.
Why why why do they just not have some series and gameplay consistency while adding new features? They could have kept the RPG battle system/partners/expanding upon the Mario mythos they had in the first two Paper Mario titles while also introducing these new paint mechanics.
It's not just Paper Mario this has happened to, but several other 1st party titles from Nintendo, like Metroid: Other M, Mario Party 10 and Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash. You can't tell me any of those didn't disappoint fans/omit and lack content/features and gameplay that people liked from past entries.
Exactly! If M&L is it for Mario RPG's, I hope Paper Jam was a one off.
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
This is such stupid logic. Why don't you leave platforming to just Mario too while your at it...
TTYD is one of the best games I have ever played, the story, the details of the world, the humor, even the sidestory of paper Luigi is ****ing amazing ! And the combat with the audience, the partners and so on... Now we have the official confirmation that they don't want 2 RPG series. They should have sticked with Paper mario RPG on home console and Mario & Luigi on portable.
This is a shame considering that Color splash is beautiful ! But no partners, only ***ing toads, bad combat system, item required to beat a boss ala sticker star. The scissor gimmick seems so bad, that's not fun at all IMHO. I was reassured 1sec when I saw Luigi but ... It's just like an item to be found to gain coins... That's so sad.
What can we make on a huge scale to be heard ? Not to ask for cancelling the game or changing it but just to say to Nintendo that's not the game we want, that's not the Paper Mario that we love.
Making a huge poll to clearly ask if Nintendo fans agree with that direction or not ?
This is a shame considering that Color splash is beautiful ! But no partners, only ***ing toads, bad combat system, item required to beat a boss ala sticker star. The scissor gimmick seems so bad, that's not fun at all IMHO. I was reassured 1sec when I saw Luigi but ... It's just like an item to be found to gain coins... That's so sad.
What can we make on a huge scale to be heard ? Not to ask for cancelling the game or changing it but just to say to Nintendo that's not the game we want, that's not the Paper Mario that we love.
Making a huge poll to clearly ask if Nintendo fans agree with that direction or not ?
Glass Rebel
Member
Ugh, enough with the M&L games already. They were scraping the bottom of the barrel with Paper Jam, it's clear that they need to work on something fresh.
So here's the plan:
1. Color Splash bombs
2. We whine about a TTYD HD a lot
3. They actually follow through with TTYD HD and it beats Color Splash/Sticker Star both critically and in sales
4. They realize no one likes the new Paper Mario style and go back to the old style
5. We get a good Paper Mario game again
Full proof.
1. Color Splash bombs
2. We whine about a TTYD HD a lot
3. They actually follow through with TTYD HD and it beats Color Splash/Sticker Star both critically and in sales
4. They realize no one likes the new Paper Mario style and go back to the old style
5. We get a good Paper Mario game again
Full proof.
At least #1 will probably happen
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
"That thing you want! Play our other game, on a completely DIFFERENT device!"
I guess it's not gonna reach out a lot but on the r/PaperMario they made a petition for an TTYD remake.
https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-i...make-for-future-nintendo-systems#delivered-to
Sticker Star is the most unfulfilling game I've played in years...
MaverickHunterAsh
Member
Ash from GX here - glad you all enjoyed this interview and found it informative! We really tried to ask all the questions we know you guys have had about this game in the wake of Sticker Star (because we're PM fans and we have them too!) in an honest but respectful and appreciative way. You wouldn't believe how many people think it's just as simple as asking whatever you want however you want -- when, of course, it doesn't work like that even a little bit.
Thanks again for checking out the interview!
Thanks again for checking out the interview!
GhostTrick
Banned
That answer is depressing. Whoever is in charge is fuckin clueless. Isn't it Tanabe this time ? Same guy behind Federation Farce and the 2D platformer Chibi-Robo.
People that think not buying Color Splash on principle (even if it looks enticing to them) will send Nintendo the message that they want more Papar Mario like TTYD are deluded.
The message would simply that people don't want more Paper Mario.
Different would be if a TTYD remake/digital re-release on Virtual Console perform strongly sales-wise.
If you look at the Mario RPG series (M&L, Paper, RPG) average sales you'll see that usually those games sell around 2 million units which is about how TTYD performed.
I don't think the change of the formula with SPM was due to TTYD sales and critical reception.
I cannot sign a petition which cites ******** (incoming asterisks lol) even if it's for a good cause.
EDIT:
That said the idea is good and a much better way to let Nintendo know that some still want the old Paper Mario formula.
If you look at the Mario RPG series (M&L, Paper, RPG) average sales you'll see that usually those games sell around 2 million units which is about how TTYD performed.
I don't think the change of the formula with SPM was due to TTYD sales and critical reception.
You really can't compare sales figures like this on different consoles. Between an install base off 101 million with Wii, 154 million with DS, 57.94 million with 3DS and 21 million with GC.
(https://www.reddit.com/r/papermario/comments/48vz1s/since_a_lot_of_people_have_brought_up_sales/)
But yeah you are right, I don't think they changed the concept because of sales of critical reception (which was really really good). They just wanted only 1 RPG series and it's easier to find other concepts with Paper Mario (paper mechanics...) than with Mario & Luigi I guess...
Hmm I didn't understand what bothers you but ok ^^
I'm aware that consoles have different install base but I also know that install base alone won't dictate a game sales which is something many don't understand.
Aside from that my point, as you noted, was another one.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
I knew Paper Mario wasnt an rpg anymore because Nintendo felt they didnt need to be to Mario RPGs.
The problem is, the height of Mario and Luigi came in the first game, the rest has been sadly been subpar and never reached the heights of when Paper Mario was good (or even super paper mario).
Use only mediocre toads instead of real characters, a battle system that is bad and boring, charactets that dont tal anymore, a world that thematically come directly from new super mario bros...
Not being an RPG anymore is not the only fault of the games.
Basically she is as blind as Tanabe with Metroid.
The only way Nintendo is going to stop is if color splash sells like shit. Im not going to buy it so im doing my part.
Then theres two possibilities, the nintendo stupid one where they think the problem is from the franchise and not the game being what people dont want, or they realise Paper Mario with toads and a boring battle system with little story is not the way to go.
The press needs to drill in their heads the problem is the second one, like in the video.
The problem is, the height of Mario and Luigi came in the first game, the rest has been sadly been subpar and never reached the heights of when Paper Mario was good (or even super paper mario).
Use only mediocre toads instead of real characters, a battle system that is bad and boring, charactets that dont tal anymore, a world that thematically come directly from new super mario bros...
Not being an RPG anymore is not the only fault of the games.
Basically she is as blind as Tanabe with Metroid.
The only way Nintendo is going to stop is if color splash sells like shit. Im not going to buy it so im doing my part.
Then theres two possibilities, the nintendo stupid one where they think the problem is from the franchise and not the game being what people dont want, or they realise Paper Mario with toads and a boring battle system with little story is not the way to go.
The press needs to drill in their heads the problem is the second one, like in the video.