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[dreamlongdead]

Superstar Saga and Bowser's Inside Story are the highest praised entries in the series. Dismissing them is ignoring the majority of the argument in their favor, imo.

Paper Jam was weak, but it was still an RPG, and despite its shortcomings Dream Team introduced new characters en masse, so it's not really fair to call the Mario RPGs done even though they're (wrongly, I agree) axing Paper Mario.

I obviously know how some titles have been received. I didn't even mention Parters in Time, and I know that one gets flack.

I don't find AlphaDream's work to be compelling at the moment, but I suppose I shouldn't doubt them so heavily.

 

[blame space]

well anything's POSSIBLE

 

[TWILT]

That's...really disappointing to hear to say the least. Doesn't help that the last couple M&L I haven't enjoyed that much. :/
If TTYD HD happens, I'd buy it in a heartbeat though.

 

[yllekz]

Paper Mario and M&L both need reboots.

Both series have run into the ground due to weird and bizarre changes (moreso Paper Mario than M&L).

Mario and Luigi's problem is more related to stagnation and trying "bold new ideas" that just aren't interesting.

Paper Mario needs to be rebooted back to the first two games. Nintendo should know better than to continue making shit games after how universally badly they were received.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Umm how's it's dead as a series? Hyperbole much?

He doesn't like the games now, hence they're dead.

FOR HIS WORD IS LAW.

 

[The12thGripper]

everyone buy TTYD HD so they make another RPG Paper Mario

 

[Falchion]

More TYD, less Color Splash / Sticker Star.

 

[Gnomist]

...after how universally badly they were received.

Haven't the sales of the recent games been just as good (or better) than the earlier RPG titles? I remember this talking point coming up in previous threads and it looked like the sales don't reflect the general mood that gets expressed here. I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm mistaken but wasn't the best selling Paper Mario title the Wii version that was more action game than RPG?

 

[TheJoRu]

Ash from GX here - glad you all enjoyed this interview and found it informative! We really tried to ask all the questions we know you guys have had about this game in the wake of Sticker Star (because we're PM fans and we have them too!) in an honest but respectful and appreciative way. You wouldn't believe how many people think it's just as simple as asking whatever you want however you want -- when, of course, it doesn't work like that even a little bit.

Thanks again for checking out the interview!

Veyr nicely done interview. I know how much especially Andre dislikes Sticker Star, so it was good to see you could keep it constructive without making it all critical and negative, or in the other direction, sweet-talking too much.

It's a shame they haven't acknowledged many of the valid complaints that you can put against Sticker Star, but watching the trailer and the Treehouse footage I think they have succeeded with the things they talked about, namely the humor and the puzzle solving. It feels more like the focus is wrong, as opposed to failing at the things they set out to do. So maybe going into this with the right mindset the game could be pretty fun.

 

[saturnine]

I don't care much for the RPG elements of the Paper Mario series. Interesting ideas, but they always felt very stale by the end of the game.

What I'm missing like a lot of people is the diversity and vibrancy of the worlds they built. SPM is my favourite game in the franchise, despite the subpar gameplay, thanks to its story and characters that go beyond amusing. Under the juvenility and the cheerfulness there were tinges of sorrow and melancholia. Something that I never found in the M&L series.

So yeah, if you want to separate the two series entirely from a gameplay perspective, go ahead, knock yourself out. But at least keep the elements that made the PM franchise stand out amongst all the other Mario games : that willingness to tackle slightly darker subjects and to pretend its world is not just a stage prop for the gameplay.

 

[Green Mamba]

everyone buy TTYD HD so they make another RPG Paper Mario

They won't ever release a TTYD HD. The assistant producer was asked about one and just said "I dunno, maybe, lol."

Nothing will come of it. Either Color Splash will bomb and they'll kill the series for good or they'll keep going down this same dour path with Paper Mario: Envelope Folder in 2020. There's no going back at this point, the interview made it more than clear.

 

[Mory Dunz]

What I don't get is:

Why even keep Paper Mario as an RPG at all?

Imagine all the cool paper like abilites and gameplay you can do on an overworld setting. Like, take all the paper abilites from TTYD and SPM, add 5 more, or make them 10x deeper/more intricate, and there's your game. Instead their keeping their poor excuse of an RPG battle system. For what, they've already stripped what makes it interesting. Just go all the way and try something actually "new".

Personally, it reeks of laziness. As of now they can fall back on the crutch of an rpg battle system-lite as means of "progrssion". It'd take a lot more work to create 10-20 overworld skills that interact with both the enemies and world in the form of deeper puzzles.

Doing half measures satisfies no one.

 

[Alexlf]

It's a least good to hear the reasoning for it from someone who knows vs simple speculation, makes it easier to swallow.

 

[udivision]

Yea.
eff it, can we get Mario and Luigi on consoles then. Maybe a fully 3D one with Mario Kart 8 like environments and graphics.

I mean, if we're only getting one RPG series, they might as well go all out. There isn't steep JRPG competition imo. Nintendo could easily have the 3rd or 4th best selling JRPG each gen. Behind pkmn and FF. They have before with stuff like BiS.

Yeah, they should do this. I'm pretty sure 3D Mario is going to follow in the the tradition of 3DW / Multiplayer, so maybe their flagship "Explore the Mario Universe" game should be a console M&L game in 3D.

It'd sell a lot better than XCX, and it'd probably be cheaper to make.

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

Depressing

 

[Mory Dunz]

Yeah, they should do this. I'm pretty sure 3D Mario is going to follow in the the tradition of 3DW / Multiplayer, so maybe their flagship "Explore the Mario Universe" game should be a console M&L game in 3D.

It'd sell a lot better than XCX, and it'd probably be cheaper to make.

And if it was a game of that scale they'd probably need monoslithsoft's help anyway lol

 

[Giever]

this is severely disappointing

 

[Mr Waluigi]

They aknowledge that people liked the first games because of the story, characters, puzzles and humor. They aknowledge that they have decided to focus on the puzzles and humor.

... Why?

 

[Green Mamba]

They aknowledge that people liked the first games because of the story, characters, puzzles and humor. They aknowledge that they have decided to focus on the puzzles and humor.

... Why?

"Have you heard of Mario & Luigi?"

 

[MisterGrey3000]

I mean, idk, I'd even be fine with Paper Mario being in the Super Paper Mario style if not the Thousand Year Door one, but I'm not liking the newest direction Paper Mario is going

I'm honestly surprised they abandoned the Super Paper Mario style (TTYD storytelling wrapped around a 2D/3D action RPG Platformer) so quickly considering Super Paper Mario moved about 4 million or so units- TTYD didn't even reach 2 mill, unfortunately-, and the general critical reception was very positive; if the overall 85 aggregate and 53 positive reviews with 0 negatives are anything to go by on metacritic.

TTYD is one of my favorite games ever, but I did enjoy SPM quite a bit; I hold no ill will towards sticker star, but I would have preferred if they just kept making sequels like SPM if they didn't want two Mario RPG series running at the same time.

 

[jblank83]

I know why they're doing what they're doing and I have no problem with it. It really doesn't make sense to have two Mario RPG series.

But I'd really like it if they could make the M&L games a lot better than they are, on the level that TTYD was.

 

[Joqu]

What if a TTYD remaster happens and it sells more than Color Splash though, Intelligent Systems. What are you going to do then, huh?

Spoiler

nothing, that's what. fuck.

 

[FSLink]

I'm honestly surprised they abandoned the Super Paper Mario style (TTYD storytelling wrapped around a 2D/3D action RPG Platformer) so quickly considering Super Paper Mario moved about 4 million or so units- TTYD didn't even reach 2 mill, unfortunately-, and the general critical reception was very positive; if the overall 85 aggregate and 53 positive reviews with 0 negatives are anything to go by on metacritic.

TTYD is one of my favorite games ever, but I did enjoy SPM quite a bit; I wouldn't have minded if they kept making sequels to that.

Yeah honestly as much as I'd love a followup to TTYD, I'd wouldn't mind a sequel to SPM. It had a lot of potential. The gameplay was kind of weak but it could be improved if it was refined.

 

[Dangansona]

Are people even still Gung ho about Mario and Luigi? The 3DS iterations just looked so bland and soulless to me compared to the older ones and especially compared to Paper Mario.

 

[FSLink]

Are people even still Gung ho about Mario and Luigi? The 3DS iterations just looked so bland and soulless to me compared to the older ones and especially compared to Paper Mario.

Personally I always preferred the gameplay of M&L over Paper Mario where I preferred the story and characters. But the gameplay has been dumbed down quite a bit in the sequels in M&L, and Paper Mario lacks the charming story and characters now.

 

[Joqu]

I gotta say, the real reason this pisses me off is because it's such a bullshit answer. Paper Mario RPGs and Mario & Luigi ones co-existed for quite a while without any trouble. Both series have always been able to stand out on their own despite the obvious similarities. So to claim that Paper had to adapt is such a nonsensical one. There's overlap but I didn't like both of these series as RPGs for the exact same reason anyway, and I greatly preferred Paper Mario as one.

 

[MK_768]

Are people even still Gung ho about Mario and Luigi? The 3DS iterations just looked so bland and soulless to me compared to the older ones and especially compared to Paper Mario.

That's the thing. Nintendo wanted to separate the games and what they did to give them their own identity but both series have taken a decline in quality.

And it doesn't seem like they are planning on going back to the original two paper mario games for future games. They want to focus on a these dumb-downed ideas and it is so sad.

 

[Oddish1]

I gotta say, the real reason this pisses me off is because it's such a bullshit answer. Paper Mario RPGs and Mario & Luigi ones co-existed for quite a while without any trouble. Both series have always been able to stand out on their own despite the obvious similarities. So to claim that Paper had to adapt is such a nonsensical one. There's overlap but I didn't like both of these series as RPGs for the exact same reason anyway, and I greatly preferred Paper Mario as one.

Not really, the first Mario & Luigi came out in 2003 and TTYD came out in 2004. Afterwards the Paper Mario series began moving away from RPG mechanics and experimenting with its paper aesthetic in Super Paper Mario. They never really co-existed for any period of time.

 

[Green Mamba]

That's the thing. Nintendo wanted to separate the games and what they did to give them their own identity but both series have taken a decline in quality.

And it doesn't seem like they are planning on going back to the original two paper mario games for future games. They want to focus on a these dumb-downed ideas and it is so sad.

Mario & Luigi at this point is just tired. Five games in thirteen years that are all pretty similar to one another with usually a singular main gimmick to separate them. Dream Team being bad and Paper Jam sucking a lot of the series' unique visual charm out doesn't help.

Paper Mario has like the opposite problem. It was gutted and turned into something with no identity of its own outside of its graphic style and now decided to settle on a gameplay formula many people hate.

It feels like in all the possible ways this producer invented problem could have parsed out we ended up in the worst timeline.

Not really, the first Mario & Luigi came out in 2003 and TTYD came out in 2004.

Funny that the best games in both series came out within a year of each other.

 

[Prevolition]

Definitely wouldn't mind that. Especially since to this day, Super Mario RPG still has one of my favorite characterizations of Bowser. His interaction with his former troops in Monstro Town and stuff was great and it helped to make sense of why he's "King Koopa" other than just pure brute force and because Nintendo says so. It's definitely been kinda sad to see things regress to Bowser unequivocally treating the Koopa Troop like complete trash in the RPGs anyway and them either joking about it or worshiping him anyway. The writing and characterization in that game was definitely on point, without even talking about the gameplay, so to see that come back would definitely be great. I mean, stuff like that might just be small details that don't seem like they should individually matter or mean much, but they all came together to form a wonderful package in Super Mario RPG that really did just work and shine.

No doubt, that game had charm up the wazoo. I want to see more writing like that and more mystery/complexity from new unexpected playable characters in the Mushroom Kingdom.

 

[squid]

Funny that the best games in both series came out within a year of each other.

Don't be ridiculous. How could they both be good while both being RPG's?

 

[Toxi]

The Thousand Year Door HD has about as much chance of happening as Metroid Prime HD: None at all.

 

[Joqu]

Not really, the first Mario & Luigi came out in 2003 and TTYD came out in 2004. Afterwards the Paper Mario series began moving away from RPG mechanics and experimenting with its paper aesthetic in Super Paper Mario. They never really co-existed for any period of time.

Paper Mario - 2000

Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - 2003

Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - 2004

Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time - 2005

If you take game development in account I'd consider that to be co-existence for quite some time, yes, with one being the handheld series and the other being the console one.

It's TTYD that started experimenting with the paper aesthetic anyway, you gotta remember 64 looked pretty different from what we now remember to be the "standard" Paper look. And obviously it's a huge change-up in game mechanics but I wouldn't call Super Paper Mario that big of a departure, sidescrolling RPGs used to be a thing anyway.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

I mostly played Paper Mario for its RPG elements and humor. But I may never get what I really want: more SMRPG with Geno and Mallow.

 

[Champion]

Clicked on this thread 5 times before I could build the strength to read through the interview.

So sad.

 

[Screamapillar]

I think it's really cool that Nintendo gave GameXplain the chance to sit down with a team member from NCL just to discuss the game. This is the only interview I've seen about Color Splash. If anybody else here saw the GameXplain discussion from March when Nintendo first announced it, you'd know why Nintendo probably felt it would be a nice gesture to give them a chance to ask direct questions about the game. Even if, really, especially with the answers to the questions, clearly fan feedback from America about the direction of the modern Paper Mario games seems to have no impact on the development of Color Splash.

The only area I could tell where some feedback had been heard and used to possibly improve the game, is where she clearly admits that battles in Sticker Star were considered pointless by many, and the implementation of Enemy Cards, only able to be collected if you win a battle, give players a reason to bother entering battles. Other than just to farm coins.

I do have to say, the graphics look amazing, the levels look amazing. I'm a huge fan of the first two Paper Mario games, I enjoyed some of Sticker Star, even if I have to admit that battles were usually unnecessary.

I wish for at least a reimplementation of Badges, FP, and Star Points. Keep the paint hammer, keep the cards system, just give people something familiar.

 

[Green Mamba]

The Thousand Year Door HD has about as much chance of happening as Metroid Prime HD: None at all.

Metroid Prime HD is way more likely to happen than TTYD HD, if only because it's already seen a rerelease at one point. Nintendo vastly misunderstands the Metroid fanbase, but I don't think they would ever even acknowledge that a classic Paper Mario fanbase exists.

 

[Seanlole]

i'd buy a paper mario / PMTTYD remaster only if they follow the concept art of color splash: real paper figurines and cardboard mock-ups

 

[ZeronosVega]

I think it's really cool that Nintendo gave GameXplain the chance to sit down with a team member from NCL just to discuss the game. This is the only interview I've seen about Color Splash. If anybody else here saw the GameXplain discussion from March when Nintendo first announced it, you'd know why Nintendo probably felt it would be a nice gesture to give them a chance to ask direct questions about the game. Even if, really, especially with the answers to the questions, clearly fan feedback from America about the direction of the modern Paper Mario games seems to have no impact on the development of Color Splash.

The only area I could tell where some feedback had been heard and used to possibly improve the game, is where she clearly admits that battles in Sticker Star were considered pointless by many, and the implementation of Enemy Cards, only able to be collected if you win a battle, give players a reason to bother entering battles. Other than just to farm coins.

I do have to say, the graphics look amazing, the levels look amazing. I'm a huge fan of the first two Paper Mario games, I enjoyed some of Sticker Star, even if I have to admit that battles were usually unnecessary.

I wish for at least a reimplementation of Badges, FP, and Star Points. Keep the paint hammer, keep the cards system, just give people something familiar.

The interview was a nice gesture, I agree. What is a little reassuring is that they had been able to play the game, as they discuss in their Day 2 recap video, and while it was only a small segment of the game, they did say that they actually enjoyed it more than they were expecting. While a small slice of a game is never enough to base a full opinion on, it's nice to know that there's a small chance that the game has redeeming qualities.

 

[Green Mamba]

So is this generic house supposed to be Mario's house?

 

[Richie]

So is this generic house supposed to be Mario's house?

I wouldn't be surprised if this very brief cutscene is all you see of it in the game so...

'Sides it's not like the original was the epitome of creativity

The Faceship it isn't no sire

 

[Green Mamba]

I'm not saying the original was amazing or anything but I'm questioning... why redesign it at all?

 

[Tingle]

So is this generic house supposed to be Mario's house?

Yes, it looks like its based on the Paper Mario 1 version.

Edit:

I'm not saying the original was amazing or anything but I'm questioning... why redesign it at all?

It barely looks any different to me. They took out the giant "MARIO" text which was probably more heavy-handed than necessary, and changed the house to brick rather than wood?

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

But Paper Mario was first! It deserves first dibs on being an RPG! Are you telling me Paper Mario doesn't want to be an RPG!? Bullshit!

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Mario RPGs are pretty much done for at this stage. None of the recent ones have been very memorable.

Even though I haven't played Superstar Saga or Bowser's Inside Story, I don't think the Mario & Luigi series ever reached the heights of the first two Paper Mario games or even SMRPG. I often read massive praise for TTYD in particular.

Superstar Saga and Bowser's Inside Story are the best games in the series though, and I wouldn't even bring it up if it weren't for the fact that they're both better by FAR than any of the other Mario and Luigi games. Like, there's an order of magnitude of difference. I couldn't finish Paper Jam and Dream Team if you paid me to, and while I finished Partners in Time, that was just because I really wanted a sequel to Superstar Saga... but it was garbage.

I'm not saying the original was amazing or anything but I'm questioning... why redesign it at all?

Who knows, Mario's got a different house in every RPG and they're always meager little homes out in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Richie]

I'm not saying the original was amazing or anything but I'm questioning... why redesign it at all?

Now that you mention it, a trip to Mario Wiki tells me it was indeed consistent in the first three games in the series. That IS pretty odd...

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Now that you mention it, a trip to Mario Wiki tells me it was indeed consistent in the first three games in the series. That IS pretty odd...

well snap, I remembered them being different.

 

[Green Mamba]

It barely looks any different to me. They took out the giant "MARIO" text which was probably more heavy-handed than necessary, and changed the house to brick rather than wood?

Now that you mention it, a trip to Mario Wiki tells me it was indeed consistent in the first three games in the series. That IS pretty odd...

Like yeah, I'm not saying it's a big deal or anything, but I just thought the level they're willing to go to scrub the remnants of the original series away seemed funny.

 

[Tingle]

Like yeah, I'm not saying it's a big deal or anything, but I just thought the level they're willing to go to scrub the remnants of the original series away seemed funny.

I think saying that is a stretch. Its still a generic yellow house with a red roof and a green door sitting on a wood deck. They just slightly changed it, mostly removing the Mario sign, which again, seems heavy-handed. Mario pretty clearly lives in the house.

 

[Chronospherics]

The new paper Mario sounds and looks unappealing to me. I'm really only invested in this series for the RPG elements, which have apparently been relegated to Mario and Luigi games? I guess I should buy more of those, though I never felt they matched the production values or quality of the original paper Mario games either.