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[Sapiens]

Was Sony the first to pull of back to back generation domination worldwide??

I didn't think they had it in them. I was convinced that DC would hold it's own.

The only similarity to DC that XBOX 360 has is that it is launching a little sooner. Other than that, it's a different ballgame.

This is what I want to know:

If the 360 is not profitable, will MS abandon ship, or will they attempt a third generation?

How god-damn much is Sony going to lose on each console if they expect to sell it to us for 299? The PS3 in 2006 seems far more advanced and complicated than the ps2 was in 2000. To me, anyways. Relatively.



Also, Nintendo, god love them, are going to pull the exact same shit they did this generation. Free downloads? no-way. And they'll get away with it.

Ah, well. I can't wait for the 360. The possible Sega (of Japan) content has me excited.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

I just don't think consumers in the US are willing to accept a console for, say, 50 dollars over the premium (say, if Xbox360 is 299, that'd put PS3 at 349.99... or if Xbox360 was 349.99, that'd put PS3 at 399.99). There's a line I think that will be drawn from "product that must be in every living room" to "luxury product that's just out of a price range". And while hardcore gamers are the ones who usually buy systems at launch, I think it can definitely damage long-term perception.

I agree, Premium pricing didn't exactly help the PSP.

 

[TheDuce22]

Sony is so worried about future proofing their console with all the ports and needless features, I think it will hurt them in the long run.

 

[blackadde]

If the 360 is not profitable, will MS abandon ship, or will they attempt a third generation?

I think their contingency plan is to simply buy out Sony with petty cash and shame Ken into committing seppuku.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

How god-damn much is Sony going to lose on each console if they expect to sell it to us for 299? The PS3 in 2006 seems far more advanced and complicated than the ps2 was in 2000. To me, anyways. Relatively.

Think of it in the long term, software accessories sales, games sales, and eventually they will profit on the hardware (as they're doing with PS2). The upfront costs will balance out later in the PS3's life, and the profit they'll make will be substantial like it has been with the PS1/2.

Sony is so worried about future proofing their console with all the ports and needless features, I think it will hurt them in the long run.

How could that hurt them? The features are there for people that will use them, and for others they won't. Simple.

I'm thinking that Sony wants this gen to last longer than usual, if so it would be a good move to futureproof the system as much as possible.

 

[Wulfer]

Well, if Square turned M$ down so quickly last time why bother this gen. My question is do you think this shows a little less faith in Sony's online plan or maybe Sony hasn't shown Square-Enix a plan yet. I don't expect facts I don't thinks there is any to find.

 

[PhatSaqs]

With MS being so goddman adamant and telling anyone who will listen "we will be the market leader...." i'm starting to wonder if they're planning/willing to just start buying anything that matters at some point :lol

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Well, if Square turned M$ down so quickly last time why bother this gen. My question is do you think this shows a little less faith in Sony's online plan or maybe Sony hasn't shown Square-Enix a plan yet. I don't expect facts I don't thinks there is any to find.

They are porting a four year old game to the system! Will it even sell? It's a joke! If Square Enix was serious and really liked Xbox live they would be planning Mana Online for it.

Square Enix main support = PS3
Old ports and gimmicky titles = the others.

That's what it looks like right now.

 

[teiresias]

I don't know, the different storage card slots, the USB ports, and the ethernet ports (the actual ports themselves) are pretty damn inexpensive in the quantities Sony will be purchasing them and the hardware necessary to interface with all the cards and the USB ports isn't exactly expensive either.

The Gigabit ethernet controller might be a little pricey (the controllers at Digikey are 352-BGA packages and cost like $100 each in single quantities, no idea what large quantities would be), and I think the two-port internal switch is a bit over the top, but aside from that I don't see the amount of ports actually being detrimental to the cost. For all we know the EE/GS combination is in there, and not only for BC but to also do all the IO interfacing with all the ports.

 

[TheDuce22]

How could that hurt them? The features are there for people that will use them, and for others they won't. Simple.

If all those things effect how much they charge for it they are doing more harm than good.

 

[teiresias]

Well, if Square turned M$ down so quickly last time why bother this gen. My question is do you think this shows a little less faith in Sony's online plan or maybe Sony hasn't shown Square-Enix a plan yet. I don't expect facts I don't thinks there is any to find.

I wouldn't think Sony would even be interested in getting FFXI on the PS3, at least not in the form that SE is offering it up to the Xbox360 - straight PC port with no enhancements. Square is still interested in pushing it's own Playonline service for all of its game content anyway, so I really feel they could give a damn what Sony's or Microsoft's own online structure offerings are so long as they give SE the option of bypassing them and going straight to Playonline.

 

[dorio]

maybe 2% of EA's Madden fanbase would buy a $300 system for Madden, especially when its blatantly obvious to every human on this planet who knows what Madden is that it'll be on all three next gen systems.

I can throw out meaningless pct. numbers too but even 2% of that fanbase will give MS a nice head start, then you're following that up with PDZ, Gears of War, Ghost Recon 3, Oblivion and Halo3 and then you're talking about a system that only sony fanboys could resist. When people see that the games don't quite look as good as those prerenders, then it will have the effect of what am I waiting for to get a next gen system. I can get this now and save up for ps3 later. I don't see the slam dunk Sony domination that you guys are seeing.

 

[Amir0x]

I agree, Premium pricing didn't exactly help the PSP.

It's an odd situation, that's for sure, to see how pricing will be next-gen. I'm very, very pessimistic about it.

I can throw out meaningless pct. numbers too but even 2% of that fanbase will give MS a nice head start, then you're following that up with PDZ, Gears of War, Ghost Recon 3, Oblivion and Halo3 and then you're talking about a system that only sony fanboys could resist.

Resisting a system for casuals, you'll find, has very little to do with being a fanboy/not being a fanboy.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Cell, RSX, Blu Ray, Backwards Compatibility, XDR Ram, all those internet/wireless ports and so some other unnecessary ports. Man the thing must cost a fortune to produce but it looks like Sony is going all out.

:\

If we get started and quoted all the specs of the Xbox 360 in detail we can make it sound expensive too .

512 MB of 22+ GB/s GDDR3 is going to be cheap ? A triple-core CPU with 1 MB of fast L2 on-chip, uber-enhanced VMX units (the 64-bits Power PC core is the hottest and larget single component in the CELL based Broadband Engine MPU too), next-generation WGF 2.0 oriented GPU wholly separated from their new consumer GPU R520, embedded HDD, non-standard Wireless technology for controllers, interface ready for external WiFi adaptor (which we all like to buy extra... where are the people crying foul for this ?), etc... all much cheaper ?

On Xbox 360 all components are necessary and cheap to manufacture (hey, the MS guy says they are so), on PlayStation 3 they are unnecessary and uber-expensive (hey, it is again the same MS guy, why shouldn't we trust him again ?)... I get how the song goes.

If we do not know exactly how much is it going to cost to include BD-ROM technology (mind you of any CD+DVD+BD monolithic solution they have developed with the exact idea of reducing manufacturing costs of a BD-ROM player with backward-compatibility with CD's and DVD's) then should we really just assume it's uber expensive and that it just has to bankrupt Sony/SCE ?

If you look at reality a bit more, you will discover that both the Broadband Engine CPU and the RSX GPU are more cost-conscious than you might think: they will be shipping with a tried and tested manufacturing process (90 nm: already used in SCE's fabs for the EE+GS@90 nm chip and for PSP's SoC core) with several months of additional time over Microsoft for tuning their process for higher yields. Not to mention how CELL processors were available to developers before the Xbox 360 CPU was finally ready to be included in official SDK's (Alias had a CELL processor to play with since last Winter).

Personally I like both Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 as I am a believer of Pervasive Computing and of fast and versatile CE devices being Living Room Media Hubs and doing it well.

Where is the praise for Sony/SCE for supporting STANDARDS such as Compact Flash, Secure Digital or SD, OpenGL ES 2.0, Cg, COLLADA, USB 2.0, BlueTooth, etc... in addition to their EVIL proprietary formats ?

 

[KingJ2002]

I dont know why the competition keep writing nintendo off... nintendo is the only console maker to make games turn into phenomenons... like mario and pokemon. Plus all the ideas nintendo comes with... they eventually end up stealing... look at connectivity... that was a failed attempt and sony comes out and says that the psp and ps3 will be able to connect to each other.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

I can throw out meaningless pct. numbers too but even 2% of that fanbase will give MS a nice head start, then you're following that up with PDZ, Gears of War, Ghost Recon 3, Oblivion and Halo3 and then you're talking about a system that only sony fanboys could resist. When people see that the games don't quite look as good as those prerenders, then it will have the effect of what am I waiting for to get a next gen system. I can get this now and save up for ps3 later. I don't see the slam dunk Sony domination that you guys are seeing.

You know if Sony launches 1 year after MS in NA I agree with you, it'll be a tighter battle. But if it really is 6 months after, MS isn't going to have much time to establish itself before Sony comes knocking.

external WiFi adaptor (which we all like to buy extra... where are the people crying foul for this ?)

:lol don't even...

I've made such a big stink about this it's not even funny, Mr. Bob can vouch for that.

 

[Firest0rm]

Iwata's comments lately have been pretty good, and I like what I'm hearing. If they stay to their word and deliver what their claiming then I'd be very satisfied. This point is a very good one too:

"Game consoles are not an essential product in life, so we want to make ours as compact, thin, and as inexpensive as we can so that it won't be viewed with hostility by family members."

Even though I buy my own games and consoles, my family has always been hostile towards it. If Nintendo can create something that more families would be willing to have in their homes then they can reach a bigger audience.

 

[Mooreberg]

so that it won't be viewed with hostility by family members

As a cheap ass gamer, I understand the affordability angle. But I think this guy under estimates the number of parents who buy $299 consoles for their kids. The lower pricing of Gamecube had some limited success in the US, but it still was outsold by Xbox.

 

[dorio]

Resisting a system for casuals, you'll find, has very little to do with being a fanboy/not being a fanboy.

Of course, I was being facetious. Like I said people buy the system that has the games that want to play, is reasonably priced and/or has the services that they want. Casuals don't buy systems based on flops which is evidenced by the most powerful system not winning most system wars.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

I don't think the market is ready for Blu Ray. There was clearly an established userbase for DVDs prior to the PS2 releasing.

"If Square Enix was serious and really liked Xbox live they would be planning Mana Online for it. "

And why do you thin they aren't? They clearly said game(s) in that press conference.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

PS3 isn't coming out here in Spring because it isn't going to launch without Madden. Go ahead, X360 launches with Madden and PS3 doesn't. The fanboy cry: Madden X360 exclusive. You need to think like a casual, they are stupid, they will think those very thoughts. Look at E3, PS3 flew out just as soon as it flew it. Mindshare. That is the name of the game.

 

[dorio]

You know if Sony launches 1 year after MS in NA I agree with you, it'll be a tighter battle. But if it really is 6 months after, MS isn't going to have much time to establish itself before Sony comes knocking.

Excellent point.

 

[teiresias]

There's already a ton of people on alot of Home Theater forums I visit planning on buying a PS3 because it will be the first available and agressively priced Blu-Ray player.

 

[sonycowboy]

I don't think the market is ready for Blu Ray. There was clearly an established userbase for DVDs prior to the PS2 releasing.

I don't think anyone's debating the differences between DVD & Blu-Ray in terms of penetration. However, Sony is going to release a new system in 2006. A system that needs to last until 2011. DVD's simply ARE NOT GOING TO CUT IT. I'm sorry, but it's completely beyond reason to expect that games in 3 years will reasonably fit on a single DVD and once you've printed multiple DVD's as a publisher, you were better off printing a BD-ROM.

Sony is doing this for 2 reasons:

1) They stand to make good money on Blu-Ray adoption. First from being a major patent holder (although, that will get whittled down with all the partners). Second from people upgrading TV's, sound systems, and the other Blu-Ray players themselves. Third, from re-releasing Sony studio (Sony Pictures & MGM) pictures on Blu-Ray, creating a secondary stream for titles that had already sold as much as they were going to on DVD.

2) It will help the competative advantage of the PS3. Being the only HD movie player out of the gate (don't give me streaming windows ) will be a huge marketing feature. Plus, the huge amounts of data storage relative to DVD will make a difference. Maybe not with first generation games, but certainly eventually. The number one rule of technology is if you give a programmer space, they're going to fill it up. Finally, if they can manage to get a fast Blu-Ray drive out there (4x can we dream?, maybe not), load times would be phenomenal.

 

[DrEvil]

goddmanit people.

I'm going to share some wisdom, at e3 I had the chance to talk with Denis Dyack about many things, on and off the record... We talked about the various consoles and their respective skills via the force, and Denis informed me of this:

Sure the ps3 can have 2 hdmi ports, and run everything in 32x9 with 5.1 sound etc, but only on still frames. The amount of bandwidth that information would take, both ports, in hi def, and the sound bandwidth, there would have to be some EXTREMELY fat pipes, to actually run that at 60fps... Basically, the system can do it, but just not in an in-game performance mode.

Similar can be said about the xbox.


Figured this is a good place to post that.

 

[Amir0x]

PS3 isn't coming out here in Spring because it isn't going to launch without Madden. Go ahead, X360 launches with Madden and PS3 doesn't. The fanboy cry: Madden X360 exclusive. You need to think like a casual, they are stupid, they will think those very thoughts. Look at E3, PS3 flew out just as soon as it flew it. Mindshare. That is the name of the game.

No, i think most people greatly underestimate casuals. Yes, there are some who aren't as informed (I wouldn't call it stupidity, however... most are just genuinely disinterested in going any deeper to find out the answers for themselves), but plenty know how things are just fine.

I think this is generally an excuse people use to explain some of the anomalies in the industry, such as Enter the Matrix selling so well.

 

[trmas]

I don't see the slam dunk Sony domination that you guys are seeing.

This is because the Force is not strong with you. Seriously, you have to look at this from a consumer angle. General consumer. Whether people on here will admit it or not, the DVD player in the PS2 had a LOT to do with the huge lead that it built on the competition last time. A HUGE part of it. I know many people who bought the machine as a temporary DVD player that could play games. Now fast forward a bit. Sony has a high definition format they have a huge vested interest in. Now, do you honestly believe that Joe Shmoe off the street has a CLUE that there is a competing standard in HD-DVD? No, they are going to see another Sony game machine with a BR player and all these other goodies built in, and it will be just like last time.

The biggest thing here, is that having the BR in the Sony machine is a can't lose for Sony. People buy it, it gets the market penetration to succeed, and they lose nothing here. Long term, they lose nothing. Best of all, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, and suddenly the BR players have the market to put a serious hurt on any competing HD-DVD standard. Seriously. Would you buy an HD-DVD player, or a PS3 player that plays beautiful games as well as plays BR movies? Now, to make matters even WORSE for the competition, Nvidia will help Sony a LOT in game development ease with third parties. Now, ease of development is no longer clearcut. Look at how quickly Epic picked it up. Having Nvidia opens a whole 'nother avenue to Sony that MS enjoyed last time. Now, PC ports are now possible quickly and easily on both machines. Suddenly the "HD" box has only one card it in its corner, online.

The majority of the world just doesn't give a crap about online gaming. If they did, PC online games wouldn't be such a niche market. I think M$ can appeal to hardcore gamers with XBox live, but they are seriously fighting an uphill battle with Sony for the casual user. Of course, if they manage to come in cheaper it might be different. Might. Remember, the GC was cheaper than everything last generation, and it just didn't help. I think the biggest thing you will see with online next generation will be the wireless network connectivity. And MS didn't include that...

I don't give a crap how cheap you make that extra peripheral the majority of the "sheep" out there aren't going to buy it. If there is one thing time has proven, peripherals do not work in the long run. On the other hand, those extras are included with no hassle by the competition. In their rush to market, MS made two HUGE mistakes. No included wireless connection, and no next-generation drive. And Sony will make certain the ENTIRE world knows it. Because Sony holds all the advantages in style and marketing. It's not hard to see Sony kicking ass yet again, the only question is just how bad the ass-kicking will be.

 

[Jonnyram]

However, Sony is going to release a new system in 2006. A system that needs to last until 2011. DVD's simply ARE NOT GOING TO CUT IT. I'm sorry, but it's completely beyond reason to expect that games in 3 years will reasonably fit on a single DVD and once you've printed multiple DVD's as a publisher, you were better off printing a BD-ROM.

Well, I think that DVDs will last for a long time in terms of movies. VHS lasted a loooooong time, and I think DVDs will too. But for games, I think there is potential for multi-DVD solutions too. Gamers aren't particularly averse to disc-swapping if it's managed well. FF7 and 8 were testament to that, and FF12 might be two discs.

 

[Amir0x]

The majority of the world just doesn't give a crap about online gaming. If they did, PC online games wouldn't be such a niche market.

Just to take issue with this point of yours - people don't avoid PC online games because they're disinterested in the feature, they avoid it because getting a competent gaming computer can cost well over a thousand dollars. That's the critical difference.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

PS3 isn't coming out here in Spring because it isn't going to launch without Madden. Go ahead, X360 launches with Madden and PS3 doesn't. The fanboy cry: Madden X360 exclusive. You need to think like a casual, they are stupid, they will think those very thoughts. Look at E3, PS3 flew out just as soon as it flew it. Mindshare. That is the name of the game.

Well the people that buy PS2's Madden could just play it on PS3 until Madden 2007 comes out. Seriously, as long as Sony has a decent line-up of titles for Spring and the hardware is ready they might as well launch it then. It'll sell for sure. By the time Holiday season 2006 rolls around we might even see titles like GTA4, which T2 might be more likely to realease at the time if there's a substantial PS3 userbase by then.

Just to take issue with this point of yours - people don't avoid PC online games because they're disinterested in the feature, they avoid it because getting a competent gaming computer can cost well over a thousand dollars. That's the critical difference.

That's true, but even with the huge push for XBL on XBox1 only 2mil of 23mil XBox gamers took it up. Sure it'll go up in the future, but it'll never be a huge factor for selling consoles overall. Look at Sony's inept PS2 online implementation, it didn't do much to hurt the systems sales. It baffles me that MS is putting so much effort into Live, it's cool and all but it's not going to be the deciding factor. They need to lock big franchises, games like Halo 2 and GTA move systems, online gaming services is the icing on the cake.

 

[trmas]

Amir0x,

That is a good point, and I think online gaming will grow. However, it just isn't as important to all the casual gamers (parents and such) that I know. It IS important to the hardcore audience.

The one thing that is overlooked is simple games. Online card games do very well, and could help MS tremendously if free over Live. It's all about marketing the product. I know a LOT of people that would be interested in this seemingly simply feature, but I'm not certain MS is aware how to market it.

 

[Go Go Ackman!]

Can someone explain to me WHY ANYONE CARES HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO MANUFACTURE A CONSOLE? JESUS!! WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER?!?!

FUCKING FANBOYS I SWEAR TO GOD

 

[PhatSaqs]

Can someone explain to me WHY ANYONE CARES HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO MANUFACTURE A CONSOLE? JESUS!! WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER?!?!

FUCKING FANBOYS I SWEAR TO GOD

:lol :lol :lol

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

I agree with Iwata there but there's still a certain amount of free hype that comes with supporting the high end equipment since that's what most of the gaming media will be running their games on.

Would you rather play the PS3 version running at 1080p or the muddy looking Revolution version at 480i?

480i, now thats a stretch. 720p will be the standard for all(3) consoles.

 

[scissorfight]

Now, do you honestly believe that Joe Shmoe off the street has a CLUE that there is a competing standard in HD-DVD? No, they are going to see another Sony game machine with a BR player and all these other goodies built in, and it will be just like last time.

The difference is that "Joe Shmoe" probably doesn't have a HDTV to even take advantage of Blue-Ray. When PS2 launched with DVD it was an affordable DVD player that anyone could pick up for DVD playback and eventually buy some games. By 2006, HDTV penetration will be what...15-20%? Blue-Ray is a definite advantage for PS3, but it's not the immediate advatage PS2 had over DC with DVD playback.

 

[trmas]

I'm pretty certain that the consumer doesn't really know HDTV is necessary either. Besides, over the next few years HD will get the market penetration, simply because almost every new TV sold has this functionality or the capability to support it. How many people bought progressive DVD players without a 480p capable TV? I know a bunch.

I'll be massively surprised if there isn't some sort of component output on the PS3. That WOULD be a big deal.

 

[Amir0x]

Can someone explain to me WHY ANYONE CARES HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO MANUFACTURE A CONSOLE? JESUS!! WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER?!?!

FUCKING FANBOYS I SWEAR TO GOD

It begins to matter when that price of manufacturing transfers to the consumer, which in many areas is exactly the case. Most of us here are speculating about whether the price of manufacturing WILL affect us consumers (by raising the price of the PS3, for instance, to 349.99 or 399.99)... that's the jist of it. That's when we begin to care.

 

[kaching]

I agree, Premium pricing didn't exactly help the PSP.

The price differential between the PSP and the Nintendo handhelds it shares the market with is significantly greater than the potential price differential you and amir0x are discussing related to next gen consoles. In addition, PS2 pricing this gen pretty much always matched xbox pricing and doing so was essentially pricing it a premium since, in terms of hardware capability, it was not as great a value OOTB as the xbox was at the same price. I'd agree that a price differential wider than $50 would become detrimental, but I don't think it would be hard to justify $50 or less.

But for games, I think there is potential for multi-DVD solutions too. Gamers aren't particularly averse to disc-swapping if it's managed well.

Disc-swapping could become a potentially more awkward proposition as online gaming becomes more prevalent next gen. And gamers may not be particularly averse to the practice now, but that may have a lot to do with the fact that it isn't a particularly common requirement in games either. I doubt that many devs would want to significantly increase the frequency of the practice and so may more likely opt to keep their content to one DVD, even if they could have potentially used another gig or so of space. Perhaps they'll get by with better compression techniques but I doubt that will be enough in all cases and I wager that some content would get cut.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Just to take issue with this point of yours - people don't avoid PC online games because they're disinterested in the feature, they avoid it because getting a competent gaming computer can cost well over a thousand dollars. That's the critical difference.

Yeah, but online gaming isn't the answer to everything.....it is just one way to enjoy games...

I play no multiplayer games currenly but do I enjoy the games I play??....FUCK YEAH, and I don't have to configure anything or connect anything...

And see, that is the thing....outside of some solitare or poker-style games, I see online gaming as catering to the hardcore gamer only....and we all know how small a part of the market we are....in fact, I would say it is only a small part of that harcore gamer niche since not all harcore fans play online multiplayer games...

See thats the thing, MS's biggest weapon with X360 is online gaming....but that is a niche market within a niche market...I would be shocked if MS got 10-15 million XboxLive subsribers next-gen....a good dent in Sony's overall customer base, but it would be just that, a dent....

Next gen may get those tens of millions of casuals get turned on to online gaming, but I just don't see it happening at that big of a scale for either Sony or Microsoft...

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

As for Microsoft's overall game division, we plan to get out of red ink by June 2007.

That'll be fun to keep tabs on.

What I find interesting is one of the potential big blows for MS this gen, oddly enough may be Sony's "last minute" decision on Nvidia as their GPU IP supplier. The Japanese developer pipeline has been a given for Sony, but they had trouble courting the more PC centric Western developers into exclusive content last gen. It didnt hurt them but it did give MS a bit of an edge in that area. They've had the big PC ports (Doom, HL2 etc.) and got experienced PC houses like Bioware on board to focus on console development. Now that Sony has Nvidia legacy and tools to go on the wooing wont be quite as difficult. They could end up being the hub for both the West and the East this generation. And that would spell some trouble.

 

[Bebpo]

It begins to matter when that price of manufacturing transfers to the consumer, which in many areas is exactly the case. Most of us here are speculating about whether the price of manufacturing WILL affect us consumers (by raising the price of the PS3, for instance, to 349.99 or 399.99)... that's the jist of it. That's when we begin to care.

But that's the thing. With Sony it doesn't effect the consumer price, it just affects how much more they lose on each console sold.

I guess this is what makes Sony really appealing and cool as a hardware company. They'll throw in everything and the kitchen sink but you'll still get it at the same price as if they just did the min requirement. I think it's great that the company risks their lives and the utter bankrupcy and destruction of their company in order to get you, the consumer, the best bang you can get for your buck. When people do crazy stuff like that, it's hard to not root for them to pull it off.

I almost wish Xbox360 was a bit more powerful with more features, just so Sony could've gone with 4ghz cell and even more features while still selling at $299 launch in the US

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah, but online gaming isn't the answer to everything.....it is just one way to enjoy games...

I play no multiplayer games currenly but do I enjoy the games I play??....FUCK YEAH, and I don't have to configure anything or connect anything...

And see, that is the thing....outside of some solitare or poker-style games, I see online gaming as catering to the hardcore gamer only....and we all know how small a part of the market we are....

Hey, I agree with you - it definitely is not the answer to everything. But there's a interesting trend I see, and perhaps you'd disagree. I feel that consumers often appreciate the possibilities something offers rather than necessarily needing it. There's a comfort factor there. I believe (everything being equal) consumers would be more willing to take a second look at a system that includes a point like Xbox Live, rather than those without... even if they never intend to make use of that feature.

I may be wrong, of course, but I definitely think it holds a bit more of importance even outside the hardcore demographic.

See thats the thing, MS's biggest weapon with X360 is online gaming....but that is a niche market within a niche market...I would be shocked if MS got 10-15 million XboxLive subsribers next-gen....a good dent in Sony's overall customer base, but it would be just that, a dent....

There's no doubt it's Microsoft's biggest weapon. It's a dual-edged sword, because on the one hand that sort of single-minded focus shows in the exemplary quality of the feature (Xbox Live is pretty freakin' amazing) and on the other hand it can narrow the market possibly interested in it, if they mistakenly perceive it as a product that they'll never be able to get the most out of unless they have broadband.

Next gen may get those tens of millions of casuals get turned on to online gaming, but I just don't see it happening at that big of a scale for either Sony or Microsoft...

I'm interested to see how it all turns out, that's for sure

But that's the thing. With Sony it doesn't effect the consumer price, it just affects how much more they lose on each console sold.

I guess this is what makes Sony really appealing and cool as a hardware company. They'll throw in everything and the kitchen sink but you'll still get it at the same price as if they just did the min requirement. I think it's great that the company risks their lives and the utter bankrupcy and destruction of their company in order to get you, the consumer, the best bang you can get for your buck. When people do crazy stuff like that, it's hard to not root for them to pull it off.

I almost wish Xbox360 was a bit more powerful with more features, just so Sony could've gone with 4ghz cell and even more features while still selling at $299 launch in the US

I hear you, but for some reason I just have to believe the PS3 is going to be somewhat more expensive than the Xbox360. I know the price of manufacturing will probably be greatly overblown by a particular side of the fence, but what they have included in the product is very, very impressive. The comments from various representatives within Sony lead me to believe they feel that a "premium+" price does not necessarily mean doom, as if to prepare people to spend a few extra bucks this go-around.

However, I hope - I really, really, really hope - I'm wrong. Because if they keep the price at 299.99 in the US (or 369.99 in Japan or whatever), then I'll be super happy. More bang for my buck.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

I almost wish Xbox360 was a bit more powerful with more features, just so Sony could've gone with 4ghz cell and even more features while still selling at $299 launch in the US

Heh, didnt the EE or the GS get a bump in MHZ right before the final hardware was set? Like a couple hundred? I doubt we'll get a 4 ghz Cell but a bump up to 3.4 or 3.6 may not be out of the question.

 

[Go Go Ackman!]

It begins to matter when that price of manufacturing transfers to the consumer, which in many areas is exactly the case. Most of us here are speculating about whether the price of manufacturing WILL affect us consumers (by raising the price of the PS3, for instance, to 349.99 or 399.99)... that's the jist of it. That's when we begin to care.

It's clear that sony/ms intends to eat a huge portion of the cost anyways, the cost of a console will always fall between certain parameters, so again, what does it matter?

 

[John Harker]

So here should be the current question to everyone:

1. Has anyone who was not not to get a Revolution prior to E3, going to now?

2. Has anyone who was not not to get a X360 prior to E3, going to now?

3. Has anyone who was not not to get a PS3 prior to E3, going to now?

Because, honsetly, that is all that really matters

If these press conferences, specs, info, etc hasn't persuaded anyone to get a system they didn't already intend to get, or if it hasnt presuaded anyone to get a system they previously didn't own the current gen version of, then nothing will change regardless.
The WW numbers will look roughly the same, and all these threads and spectulations have just been a biiiiiig waste of time.

So lets here it guys. Is anyhting ACTUALLY working?

 

[Amir0x]

It's clear that sony/ms intends to eat a huge portion of the cost anyways, the cost of a console will always fall between certain parameters, so again, what does it matter?

That's the thing, it isn't necessarily clear yet. I believe Microsoft Xbox360 will launch at 299.99. I'm less optimistic on PS3 launching at that price, even with a 6 month differential. That's what this speculative discussion is partially about. Eating much of the cost or not, if it ends up costing me 25, 50 or even 75+ dollars more because of it... it's probably best to scale back

 

[Firest0rm]

Message boards don't represent the real world John.

 

[Bebpo]

So here should be the current question to everyone:

1. Has anyone who was not not to get a Revolution prior to E3, going to now?

2. Has anyone who was not not to get a X360 prior to E3, going to now?

3. Has anyone who was not not to get a PS3 prior to E3, going to now?

Because, honsetly, that is all that really matters

If these press conferences, specs, info, etc hasn't persuaded anyone to get a system they didn't already intend to get, or if it hasnt presuaded anyone to get a system they previously didn't own the current gen version of, then nothing will change regardless.
The WW numbers will look roughly the same, and all these threads and spectulations have just been a biiiiiig waste of time.

So lets here it guys. Is anyhting ACTUALLY working?

I don't think GAF really counts. The majority of us own all three systems, and I think pretty much everyone posting in this thread will buy all three next-gen systems at launch or near it without question.

Have every EB store in the country poll people walking in and then add the data together and maybe you'll get a decent idea.

 

[Amir0x]

I don't think GAF really counts. The majority of us own all three systems, and I think pretty much everyone posting in this thread will buy all three next-gen systems at launch or near it without question.

Have every EB store in the country poll people walking in and then add the data together and maybe you'll get a decent idea.

I actually think I'm going to delay my purchase of all three systems for at least a year, but I will eventually own all the systems. It's not that I don't want to adopt early, but I just can't afford all these things this time around

 

[Razoric]

Wow this reminds me of the PSP vs DS threads before PSP came out. We all know how that is turning out.