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[ethomaz]

I am curious, can someone explain to me how the RAM in the XsX and PS5 compares to this $900 RAM I just saw listed on Newegg?

CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-50000) Desktop Memory Model CMK16GX4M2Z5000C18 - Newegg.com

Buy CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-50000) Desktop Memory Model CMK16GX4M2Z5000C18 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

I thought RAM was pretty cheap this days?

That DDR4 is more for overclockers... it has low CAS/RAS latencies and allow go over the nominal specs clocks pretty easy.

The GDDR6 used in both Xbox and PS5 are the most common that just fits the specs.

 

[ethomaz]

Thats only true if all the CPU and sound data (everything) is in the 10 GB. Better calcs below, they are the same per TF assuming 48 Gb/s of non GPU stuff in the > 10 GB portion.

It makes sense... the math is the same he just choose to say CPU will use 48GB/s instead 40GB/s due the reason he explained.

At the end the bandwidth in both consoles are very similar to each other.

In terms of bandwidth alone If one has issue with RAM bandwidth then the outer will face the same.
But Xbox has this weird slow part of the memory that can put it in disvantage.

 

[ethomaz]

Unless proven to be a fake dev, there was a Dev saying that game's would receive loading improvements automatically, and if they took the time to edit for SSD they'd squeeze even more load time improvements.

That means around 15s loading in PS5 without any change.

Well that is too high for me imo.
They better patch it to no loadtime.

 

[thebigmanjosh]

No advantages then lists some pretty cool advantages.

I will say this I don't think too many 3rd party devs will use a ton of their resources tweaking games for the superior SSD.

I believe we will only really see it shine in 1st party titles.

But even those non advantage advantages he listed I am good with

I agree for the most part, but developers will not need to work as hard to get the most out of PS5s SSD speeds as XBSX due to the inclusion of more and stronger dedicated HW in the I/O pipeline.

 

[Andodalf]

I am curious, can someone explain to me how the RAM in the XsX and PS5 compares to this $900 RAM I just saw listed on Newegg?

CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-50000) Desktop Memory Model CMK16GX4M2Z5000C18 - Newegg.com

Buy CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-50000) Desktop Memory Model CMK16GX4M2Z5000C18 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

I thought RAM was pretty cheap this days? This RAM seems wayyyyy too expensive unless it offers some crazy boost I don't know about?

That's some insane ram, I didn't know DDR4 could hit 5000Mhz. This is basically insanely fast DDR4 that is pre overclocked and i guess binned? idk how binning works for ram. COVID has taken a toll, but in general SSDs and Ram are cheaper than ever. This kit is an exception, basically bait for rich people and youtubers.

Unless proven to be a fake dev, there was a Dev saying that game's would receive loading improvements automatically, and if they took the time to edit for SSD they'd squeeze even more load time improvements.

No reason to believe this is false, as it's way less impressive when you go through and do the math. I went through it all in a post a while ago, but basically the numbers they give lead to a load time improvement than isn't even as good as what was shown for State of Decay on XSX. Games that are actually designed for the new consoles should be far better.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

I assume it is something like this, Dx12U uses IDs for textures and up to 100GB of the IDs assigned are known exactly where it is stored but the access is still limited to compress and decompress speed so 2.4GB/s if they are raw, 4.8GB/s if compressed. Anything other than that 100GB might not be assigned any IDs and thus accessible for virtualization of textures. I don't know why a limit like that exists but it is pure speculation based on the official xbox blog. Also do not assume those GB/s figures are when all the bottlenecks are dealt with, since bottlenecks are something akin to latency and hitches and where hw waits for other things to finish first or hides this wait by doing other things while waiting. Think of bottlenecks as a police telling you to stop even though the lights are green. Those speeds are when you can stream ideally unstopped but bottlenecks are the places you have to stop and wait. AFAIK PS5 had removed all those bottlenecks with specific hw pieces that manage coherency and DMA which is completely offloaded from the CPU. It seems XSX still has CPU to manage those operations and maybe more storage related stuff except for decompression on its cycles and this creates latency where active thread shifts and waits. I assume that is why there is a limit of 100GB that you can use those speeds (and btw when they say instantaneous it is these raw & compressed speeds they mean) anything involving an asset or texture outside of that 100GB won't be using those speed figures, and there will be a penalty, maybe a giant hitch that happens sometime in the last gen when you are transferring between bounds and a whole lot of other assets need to be cached to RAM from the disk and current RAM is scrubbed.

So basically the xbox way using the CPU is likely to effectively slow down further due to latency or bottlenecks by the time its at the other end of the pipeline?

A 50 times faster SSD is not going to be 50 times faster in reality?

Sony is claiming to not lose any speed due to the io breakthroughs and the ssd is twice as fast anyway.

The 2.5-5 times faster ps5 vs xbox in the dev opinion is seeming likely to me...

 

[IllegalLemon]

Definitely nothing like CELL since it just works for developers. They don't have to do any work to use the features of Sonys I/O. We should see the improvements even in multiplat titles.

It's nothing like cell at all since cell required bespoke code to utilise properly. Games made for ps5, either third party or otherwise won't require any bespoke code to utilise the I/O block. This should, in theory make things easier for devs.

 

[oldergamer]

That means around 15s loading in PS5 without any change.

Well that is too high for me imo.
They better patch it to no loadtime.

That post was 12 months ago. isn't that a little early for anyone but first party to have a dev kit? He noted that MS hasn't sent them anything yet.

 

[3liteDragon]

Reading the last 10 pages.....

 

[sircaw]

continue to strife to make the life for developers easier.

 

[thelastword]

If games on Xbox start to have lower resolution than PS5 then some guys will commit seppuku.

If that happens, you will hear about lazy devs, differences are negligible and depending on what happens with framerate, that may take pole position once again.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That post was 12 months ago. isn't that a little early for anyone but first party to have a dev kit? He noted that MS hasn't sent them anything yet.

There was that PC Tower developer kit. I'm guessing that some developers like Epic Games could have access to them.

 

[ethomaz]

That post was 12 months ago. isn't that a little early for anyone but first party to have a dev kit? He noted that MS hasn't sent them anything yet.

3rd-parties should have devkits since 2019 or even early.

 

[Lethal01]

I'm not so sure about that.
Nvidias AI advancements should'nt be underestimated.

If they can render a game in 540P/1080P with full raytracing features and upscale that to 4K people problably won't even notice it.
I do belive raytracing will be possible 1-3 years from now hardware wise. However that might depend how you use it.
For this gen RT hardware acceleration wasn't yet mature enough.

Pretty sure he is only talking about consoles. Just this year the new nvidia cards are set to massively outperform the console in RT. just imagine 3 years from now.

I just hope console are capable enough for devs to implement some basic feature that you will get to crank up to 11 on PC

 

[MasterCornholio]

If games on Xbox start to have lower resolution than PS5 then some guys will commit seppuku.

That's impossible.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I am curious, can someone explain to me how the RAM in the XsX and PS5 compares to this $900 RAM I just saw listed on Newegg?

CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-50000) Desktop Memory Model CMK16GX4M2Z5000C18 - Newegg.com

Buy CORSAIR Vengeance LPX (AMD Ryzen Ready) 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 5000 (PC4-50000) Desktop Memory Model CMK16GX4M2Z5000C18 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

I thought RAM was pretty cheap this days? This RAM seems wayyyyy too expensive unless it offers some crazy boost I don't know about?

That's insane 5000Mhz! But both PS5 and XSX don't use DDR4, they directly use GDDR6 which as I know is much more superior. Using DDR4 is like having a broker between the seller and the buyer, and consoles don't need that hassle and extra money. Large DDR4 (maybe 64-128GB) could compensate for slow, bottlenecked PC architecture compared to PS5, I think, but needs special coding.

 

[ethomaz]

That's impossible.

How that is impossible?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I agree for the most part, but developers will not need to work as hard to get the most out of PS5s SSD speeds as XBSX due to the inclusion of more and stronger dedicated HW in the I/O pipeline.

From what Cerny says all dev's will easily take advantage of all the I/O HW via the new ID-based API.

Behind the scenes, the SSD's dedicated Kraken compression block, DMA controller, coherency engines and I/O co-processors ensure that developers can easily tap into the speed of the SSD without requiring bespoke code to get the best out of the solid-state solution. A significant silicon investment in the flash controller ensures top performance: the developer simply needs to use the new API. It's a great example of a piece of technology that should deliver instant benefits, and won't require extensive developer buy-in to utilise it.

Now for me this is what I'm waiting to see in action as it seems too good to be true. Like Cerny said in Road to PS5; 'and the best thing is developers don't need to know any of this'.

 

[FeiRR]

Now for me this is what I'm waiting to see in action as it seems too good to be true. Like Cerny said in Road to PS5; 'and the best thing is developers don't need to know any of this'.

BUT GAF DOES!

 

[MasterCornholio]

How that is impossible?

Because the XSX GPU is stronger.

 

[Thirty7ven]

We still have to know how many ACEs are in XSX vs PS5. Asynchronous compute will be more relevant next gen.

If ROPs are the same, PS5 will have pixel and texel rate advantage.

How much RAM will be reserved on the PS5? If it’s less than the XSX that’s another point of contention.

XSX will use more CPU for decompression. That matters.

Audio processing on PS5 has an advantage.

Devs have talked before about power =/= performance but people don’t want to listen.

And this is before factoring in just how different these systems might be very different at the OS level and Gamepad.

Personally speaking I think it’s cute to see MS trying to emulate the PS4 talking points about TF, but this is 2020 and the world has just done seeing Unreal 5 demo. Feels like they are late to the party, but I might be proven wrong once the H2H and first party come. We will get to see first party for both in the next month so, interesting times around the corner. No excuses from me, if PS5 first party looks worse than XSX first party, that’s gonna be a mighty red flag.

 

[ethomaz]

Because the XSX GPU is stronger.

That doesn't make it impossible.

 

[Metroiddarks]

It makes sense... the math is the same he just choose to say CPU will use 48GB/s instead 40GB/s due the reason he explained.

At the end the bandwidth in both consoles are very similar to each other.

In terms of bandwidth alone If one has issue with RAM bandwidth then the outer will face the same.
But Xbox has this weird slow part of the memory that can put it in disvantage.

I just can imagine the morning meeting from the first parties of Xbox that list of things to optimize this two years should
looks like a restaurant menu.

-Optimize for the memory of XSX
-Optimize for the memory of XSS (the memory should be less)
-Optimize for the memory of Xbox one (S)
-Optimize for the memory of Xbox one X
-Optimize for the SSD of XSX and XSX (I think will be the same)
-Optimize for the HDD of the old consoles
-Now do all the previous for PC and its possible setups

And the last is only for the memory that is why optimize in low level the next 2 years will a challenge for the studios of Xbox.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

Source ?

Source about my "lets wait to see proper comparisons"?

That "info" is coming from Tom, Moores Law Is Dead channel. Nothing official.

Check this video: (timestamped in the description)

 

[44alltheway]

So... now some Xbox people are saying Geoff is a Sony fanboy because he made clear the Unreal Engine 5 demo was running on PS5. Oh, man, things are getting crazier everyday

these guys are the worst

 

[Gediminas]

to be fair, the xbox brand went from non-existant to a dominant force in the console space within one generation due to the quality of their exclusives.

xb1/ps4 era was the first era where sony clearly dominated in the exclusives area. so its not unrealistic at all to believe that the xbox can equal sony this gen with exclusives.

i can understand being skeptical but its far from set in stone.

this dude on the same level as deeler and timdog with colteastwood.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That doesn't make it impossible.

But why would a console with a weaker GPU output a higher resolution than a more powerful console?

 

[ksdixon]

No reason to believe this is false, as it's way less impressive when you go through and do the math. I went through it all in a post a while ago, but basically the numbers they give lead to a load time improvement than isn't even as good as what was shown for State of Decay on XSX. Games that are actually designed for the new consoles should be far better.

Aww man, that's extremely disappointing to hear. Guess i misunderstood what it was saying.

 

[Metroiddarks]

Because the XSX GPU is stronger.

Actually expect to see in some game XSX more resolution but with less details or more frame drops compared to PS5, I don't know
why Xbox push more the marketing of 4k when they don't fabricate tv as Sony does.

Just looks this gen with Xbox one X in order to achieve 4k more of one game have more drops than PS4 pro because that doesn't
makes senses in paper the delta of GPU is almost of 50% and I don't think are the studios will those who propose 4k instead of stable
framerate.

Our loved Doncabesa can you please share part of your knowledge with us ?

 

[FranXico]

I thought RAM was pretty cheap this days? This RAM seems wayyyyy too expensive unless it offers some crazy boost I don't know about?

?

RAM price has been going up again for a while. And corona made matters even worse.

 

[Andodalf]

Aww man, that's extremely disappointing to hear. Guess i misunderstood what it was saying.

There is plenty of reason to be excited! It just won't show up as much in games not designed for it. It's still a huge bump in those games, just not the full effect.

 

[geordiemp]

But why would a console with a weaker GPU output a higher resolution than a more powerful console?

Go watch the unreal engine 5 demo in 4K and then come back to us on possibilities.

Then Watch cernys presentation about bottlenecks again..... 1 second of gameplay in front of you, small and fast traingles, pipelines....

Its not just about terrafloppies, I thought everyone would of grasped that by now.

 

[ethomaz]

But why would a console with a weaker GPU output a higher resolution than a more powerful console?

There are several reasons.
Since the basic lazy devs, passing by the bottleneck is not the GPU, to the effects/quality being used being more taxing to the GPU (think like a GTX 2060 run a game at 1440p in medium settings while a GTX 2080 can run it in 1080p in ultra settings.

Having a stronger GPU doesn't guarantee higher resolution... even more on consoles where devs chooses the resolution and effects.

If a dev chooses for next-gen to make a game but that features RT support only on Series X then it will probably run at lower resolution than PS5 version... simple example that have very low changes to happen but it can happen.

 

[silent head]

Source about my "lets wait to see proper comparisons"?

That "info" is coming from Tom, Moores Law Is Dead channel. Nothing official.

Check this video: (timestamped in the description)

 

[chilichote]

Lets wait to see proper comparisons before making those bold statements and/or wishful thinkings about resolution and framerates

If that's true, I'll laugh my butt off!

 

[thelastword]

Because the XSX GPU is stronger.

Not all aspects of the GPU, which can make things interesting in some scenarios. Memory bandwidth is also not as consistent as on PS5.

 

[geordiemp]

That's some insane ram, I didn't know DDR4 could hit 5000Mhz. This is basically insanely fast DDR4 that is pre overclocked and i guess binned? idk how binning works for ram. COVID has taken a toll, but in general SSDs and Ram are cheaper than ever. This kit is an exception, basically bait for rich people and youtubers.




No reason to believe this is false, as it's way less impressive when you go through and do the math. I went through it all in a post a while ago, but basically the numbers they give lead to a load time improvement than isn't even as good as what was shown for State of Decay on XSX. Games that are actually designed for the new consoles should be far better.

Unless proven to be a fake dev, there was a Dev saying that game's would receive loading improvements automatically, and if they took the time to edit for SSD they'd squeeze even more load time improvements.

And the developer was Colbert of the game discord 2.0. It looks like FUD, reads like FD, smells like FUD...

Why would a third party dev only have 1 dev kit and no xsx dev kit, then put down the ps5 loading at this time when everyone is questioning XSX loading, and even bother to quote loading times from youtubers. as reference ......lol

Get out of here with that crap, even timdog could have written it better.

They dont understand loading speeds FFS and written the way it is surprised they managed to create a throway account...really ?



Edit, Colbert has already been caught, reddit thread stoped they caught him. lol, was his second attempt as well.

 

[chilichote]

But why would a console with a weaker GPU output a higher resolution than a more powerful console?

Because it's bandwith starved. If that's true of course.

 

[Radical_3d]

I thought RAM was pretty cheap this days? This RAM seems wayyyyy too expensive unless it offers some crazy boost I don't know about?

If RAM were as cheap as before the new consoles would have 128GB and a mechanical drive. We are in SSD world because the 16x jump in storage and 5x in speed is no longer available in today’s technology.

But that’s just the evolution in laser formats. Cartridge used to have a tiny amount of memory and I think we’re back there.

 

[Larryfox]

Can we please talk about the actual subject of this thread? Or is talking about how bad youtubers are that prefer the Xbox platform more important?

I thought tim dog would have millions of followers because of the amount people here discuss him.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Go watch the unreal engine 5 demo in 4K and then come back to us on possibilities.

Then Watch cernys presentation about bottlenecks again..... 1 second of gameplay in front of you, small and fast traingles, pipelines....

Its not just about terrafloppies, I thought everyone would of grasped that by now.

You'll only have to post this reminder for seven more years!

Just rename the presentation to: Road to Perdition 5.

 

[geordiemp]

I thought tim dog would have millions of followers because of the amount people here discuss him.

People laugh at him not with him, big difference. He is meme for a mega fanboy

 

[Gamernyc78]

PS3 had far superior exclusives than 360. It was even better than PS4 IMO.

Facts after uncharted 2 Sony murdered it in exclusives with goty winners, quantity and higher metas.

 

[JLB]

these guys are the worst

We are the worst, we are the children

 

[Thirty7ven]

Edit, Colbert has already been caught, reddit thread stoped they caught him. lol, was his second attempt as well.

The dude who was writing poems about dragons and sharing recipes like some victory lap?

 

[saintjules]

Page 1983. we're going into years now aren't we? I predict we'll see PS5 reveal before page 2020.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Page 1983. we're going into years now aren't we? I predict we'll see PS5 reveal before page 2020.

Way higher just the announcement of the reveal will be worth a dozen pages

Edit:

We are doing about 10 pages a day if the announcement comes with a teaser image that may be worth 20 pages.

With over 2 weeks to go we will be pushing 2150 is my guess.

 

[Thedtrain]

Way higher just the announcement of the reveal will be worth a dozen pages

Edit:

We are doing about 10 pages a day if the announcement comes with a teaser image that may be worth 20 pages.

With over 2 weeks to go we will be pushing 2150 is my guess.

My money is on next Tuesday for an announcement.

 

[Dodkrake]

But why would a console with a weaker GPU output a higher resolution than a more powerful console?

Why do most Italian supercars outpace American supercars with more power?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

My money is on next Tuesday for an announcement.

I can see that