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[saintjules]

PS5 tab has been there for a while.

Wayback Machine says it's been there since March 19, the day after Mark Cerny's The Road to PS5 talk.

EDIT: It's now been 2 months already since the talk. Man...

We're that much closer. Almost to June already.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

So Mel Gibson - The Patriot - The Patriots - MGS

 

[saintjules]

Jeff Grubb on the June 2nd date aka Mel Gibson picture:

"some people have got it actually, on twitter and reddit, some people have guessed it, it's out there"

He's referring to the link which was made by a reddit user which showed that the "Mel Gibson" picture on Jeff Grubs June 2nd date was actually referring to Metal Gear Solid not Xbox Lockhart. Jeff also liked the tweets mentioning this and shared the Reddit post. But what does that mean? Are we getting a Metal Gear Solid remake or sequel? that would be so so cool!

I was reading that it could potenially be Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake based on the Mel Gibson thing.

 

[Kusarigama]

Jeff Grubb on the June 2nd date aka Mel Gibson picture:

"some people have got it actually, on twitter and reddit, some people have guessed it, it's out there"

He's referring to the link which was made by a reddit user which showed that the "Mel Gibson" picture on Jeff Grubs June 2nd date was actually referring to Metal Gear Solid not Xbox Lockhart. Jeff also liked the tweets mentioning this and shared the Reddit post. But what does that mean? Are we getting a Metal Gear Solid remake or sequel? that would be so so cool!

There's a Metal Gear Solid movie in the works with director of King Kong Skull Island movie. May be we'll get trailer and release date for it.

 

[Imtjnotu]

We're that much closer. Almost to June already.

Sune

 

[Andodalf]

I was reading that it could potenially be Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake based on the Mel Gibson thing.

Seeing anything be done with the OG metal gear games would be absolutely insane, really hope that comes to pass.

 

[Ascend]

The only answer you'll get for that is whatever theory bests fits whatever narrative each "side" wants to believe. Epic has been vague. They've said the demo we saw was only possible due to what Sony has done with the IO, and when pushed for a clarification said that what we saw was the result of years of discussions with Sony on the future of graphics and IO in games, but that the technologies used in the demo would work great on XSX, too.

Has Sweeney chosen his words carefully so as not to downplay Microsoft's console, or his own engine's capabilities on an entire platform? At the end of the day, he makes his money from big studios electing to use his engine, and he's spread his engine wide over all platforms. He wants Unreal Engine to be seen as the premiere engine to select for any project on any platform. They're all his "babies".

On the other hand, is Lumen in the Land of Nanite part Sony IP? Is there some conspiratorial marketing deal between Epic and Sony that forbids Epic from saying it would work just the same or better on XSX, with PS5's IO (which is presumably partly the way it is because of Epic) a waste of money and die space?

Nobody knows, no matter how strongly and confidently they tell you they do, or that it's obvious, or clear, or whatever else. I certainly don't know, even if I do have my gut feelings on it.

It will be interesting to see if LitLoN is released as part of the UE5 SDK.

Indeed. People have to remember that Sweeney is selling his tech here. It's the reason things like nanite not working with animated objects was not mentioned. They presented their engine in the best way possible, and did a good job at that. The PS5 got a lot of buzz at the same time. So both those companies are happy. Even developers got fooled, thinking they won't have to deal with normal maps at all anymore, but that is not the case. You won't have to for static environments, but you still have to for everything else.

And when Sweeney talks about how the demo was only possible due to what Sony has done with their I/O, they are deliberately avoiding talking about the Xbox. Basically, everything they present is argued from the perspective of coming from a PS4 (Pro), although that is never explicitly mentioned.

 

[Thedtrain]

Sune

Whoa you better trademark that asap

 

[Leyasu]

Pretty sure if they get better results they will show them to us. But at the moment I'm going with the Spiderman Demo, UE5 Demo and the State of Decay demo as demonstrations of each systems I/O capabilities.

I wouldn't use any of them to be honest.

The spiderman demo was nothing more than an optimised slice of code used to show what can be done when the code is "optimised" for the SSD. Think of the old 3D tv demos that used to wow us in stores nearly a decade ago.

The state of decay demo was an unoptimised game that already has long loading times, but was brought down to 11 seconds on the XsX. Games built with an SSD in mind will load faster.

The UE5 demo.... All this talk about the SSD in the PS5 making it possible, when the engine is available for a plethora of systems.... I understand that things will be different as per the machine/PC config. I ain't basing anything on what has been said yet.

Just wait and see.

 

[HAL-01]

Even though saying this in here can possibly get me killed, it was a marketing partnership between Sony and Epic.

Because it makes no sense to take the time and money to optimize for both when it’s just a one and done thing, plus it’s clear they don’t want to contribute to console wars. A side-by-side of both would make for an even bigger meltdown for no reason

 

[Radical_3d]

I wish you guys are right. The last thing I want this generation is a 4TF machine as baseline. I mean. Imagine the third party games.

Spoiler

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Indeed. People have to remember that Sweeney is selling his tech here. It's the reason things like nanite not working with animated objects was not mentioned. They presented their engine in the best way possible, and did a good job at that. The PS5 got a lot of buzz at the same time. So both those companies are happy. Even developers got fooled, thinking they won't have to deal with normal maps at all anymore, but that is not the case. You won't have to for static environments, but you still have to for everything else.

And when Sweeney talks about how the demo was only possible due to what Sony has done with their I/O, they are deliberately avoiding talking about the Xbox. Basically, everything they present is argued from the perspective of coming from a PS4 (Pro), although that is never explicitly mentioned.

Every developer analysis I've seen has pointed out that it's only working for static objects, and not for things like the character, so I'm not sure developers really got fooled. At least none that I've heard from. I also don't see the connection to the PS4, as he spent more time comparing what we saw to what's possible (or not) on a PC more than anything else.

As I said, we don't know and cannot know, despite the confidence in the language sometimes being used, and people will interpret things to fit what they want to believe.

Sweeney's bread and butter is in developers of all stripes feeling like his engine is the best one to select for their project. That's all we can reasonably assume.

 

[Audiophile]

Revisiting the bandwidth again.
Let's assume there is 40GB/s being used by CPU in both systems.

PS5: 448 - 40 = 408GB/s for 10.3 TFs = 39.6 GB/s per TFs
Xbox: 560 - 40 = 520GB/s for 12.1TFs = 42.9 GB/s per TFs * for 10GB
Xbox: 336 - 40 = 296GB/s for 12.1TFs = 24.5 GB/s per TFs * for 6GB
5700XT: 448GB/s for 9.75TFs = 45.9 GB/s per TFs
GTX2080: 448GB/s for 10TFs = 44.8 GB/s per TFs

The difference is really small and a bit below what you have on PC.
But it is compensated with the high level of specialized compression/decompression units.

What's crazy is that the base PS4 had over 90GB/s per TF! ..with the Pro and X1X over 50GB/s.

My main concern with the consoles and their RAM is RT; the PS5 in particular could really do with those 16Gbps chips.

 

[saintjules]

HeisenbergFX4 - While many doubt he has any real ties to sources. Thoughts about this?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Jeff Grubb on the June 2nd date aka Mel Gibson picture:

"some people have got it actually, on twitter and reddit, some people have guessed it, it's out there"

He's referring to the link which was made by a reddit user which showed that the "Mel Gibson" picture on Jeff Grubs June 2nd date was actually referring to Metal Gear Solid not Xbox Lockhart. Jeff also liked the tweets mentioning this and shared the Reddit post. But what does that mean? Are we getting a Metal Gear Solid remake or sequel? that would be so so cool!

My take from that segment was it is a movie (picture) and a cheesy one at that. So I would go with Maverick (EA Star Wars game)?

 

[bitbydeath]

The spiderman demo was nothing more than an optimised slice of code used to show what can be done when the code is "optimised" for the SSD.

I know this gets parroted a lot but it doesn’t mean it’s true.

 

[Games Dean]

Even though saying this in here can possibly get me killed, it was a marketing partnership between Sony and Epic.

Yep here you go again

 

[Three Jackdaws]

HeisenbergFX4 - While many doubt he has any real ties to sources. Thoughts about this?

As I mentioned earlier on this thread, people like Foxy just recycle information from other people and pass it off as some sort of inside info. Jeff Grub very recently stated the June 4th date had been changed but he did not go into any detail but he still retained that we would see a PS5 related event with a slate of games in June.

 

[Metroiddarks]

HeisenbergFX4 - While many doubt he has any real ties to sources. Thoughts about this?

That guy is just PS fanboy without real sources, just ignored him.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

HeisenbergFX4 - While many doubt he has any real ties to sources. Thoughts about this?

As of today my buddy believes its still in early June.

He believes they want to get it done well before TLOU2 so they can just talk about that game for a week or two.

 

[Audiophile]

We still have to know how many ACEs are in XSX vs PS5. Asynchronous compute will be more relevant next gen.

If ROPs are the same, PS5 will have pixel and texel rate advantage.

.....

The Texture Units are inside the CU and so the XSX will take the lead in that department due to its higher CU count (just like ALU & RT).

ROPS are outside the CUs and while it isn't confirmed, every precedent AMD have set points to 64 ROPS on both, so the PS5 will likely take the lead here due to the higher clocks. Same with the ACES.

 

[Corndog]

Even though saying this in here can possibly get me killed, it was a marketing partnership between Sony and Epic.

Is this just your opinion?

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

I know this gets parroted a lot but it doesn’t mean it’s true.

This happens too often. I'm not sure if some people subconsciously think how much they believe something makes it more likely to be true. Or how many others do, or how many others they can convince etc. Most of what we have is speculation, and it's fun to be able to potentially confirm or discard some of it sometimes. But a bit of speculation seems to rapidly evolve into accepted fact if it "fits" well enough, and it makes it harder to see what's actually going on. Always need to find the original source of some quote or piece of information. It quite often melts away into nothing when you do. Even Sweeney had to step in and clarify what he actually said.

 

[kretos]

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

The Texture Units are inside the CU and so the XSX will take the lead in that department due to its higher CU count (just like ALU & RT).

ROPS are outside the CUs and while it isn't confirmed, every precedent AMD have set points to 64 ROPS on both, so the PS5 will likely take the lead here due to the higher clocks. Same with the ACES.

While the Asynchronous Compute Engines sit outside the CU, they seem to schedule their work to be done on the CUs themselves. That said, I don't know why there are multiple ACEs and how more of them scales etc.
Would love a GPU wizard to break it down for me.

I'd also love to know the expected impact cache scrubbers will have in mitigating the cache clear->miss->re-fetch process stalling a CU and lowering its effective utilisation. To get 10.2TF out of PS5, you'd need 100% utilisation on all CUs at all time, which will never happen, but depending on the above, it might be able to get closer to (while never acheiving) that theoretical maximum.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

As I mentioned earlier on this thread, people like Foxy just recycle information from other people and pass it off as some sort of inside info. Jeff Grub very recently stated the June 4th date had been changed but he did not go into any detail but he still retained that we would see a PS5 related event with a slate of games in June.

Dude, people just don't listen.
They love to post tweets from any Tom, Dick or Harry in this thread.
We end up with an avalanche of recycled shit with corresponding pages asking if the info is legit or not when 9 times out of 10 its random twitter users looking for attention.

There are twitter users with real connections that could know something that hardly get posted here and i've said before these are the people that you should pay attention to an no one else.

 

[vpance]

What's crazy is that the base PS4 had over 90GB/s per TF! ..with the Pro and X1X over 50GB/s.

My main concern with the consoles and their RAM is RT; the PS5 in particular could really do with those 16Gbps chips.

More would be nice but RDNA should be a good deal more efficient with bandwidth versus GCN. I don’t think next gen will be any much more bandwidth starved as it is now.

If most of next gen will hover around 1440p then I think it’s not a big problem. Maybe this was where Sony saw it wasn’t worthwhile pushing for a bigger GPU if the bandwidth wasn’t there, like 600GB/s+.

 

[Leyasu]

I know this gets parroted a lot but it doesn’t mean it’s true.

Indeed. Doesn’t mean that it is not true either.

I am not downplaying anything, just merely saying that we should wait until the games made for the next gen arrive before judging anything.

 

[Ascend]

Is this just your opinion?

Right now I feel like Shepard talking to the Council. Let me just throw this here.

The simplest explanation is probably the right one here, that Epic has some sort of marketing deal in place with Sony and PlayStation, either for this presentation specifically (which was in effect an ad for the potential and power of the PS5) or perhaps more broadly with more collaborations to come down the line.
As a part of marketing campaigns, you often get notes as a stipulation of the arrangement where you’re not supposed to mention or promote the competition of the entity you’ve done the deal with. In this case, I could easily see the Epic team being told before this “please don’t mention Xbox,” hence all the back-breaking linguistic twists and turns they did to avoid mentioning it at all.

Why Is Epic Cheerleading PS5 And Being Weird About Xbox Series X With UE5?

Epic debuted Unreal Engine 5 on PS5, and went out of its way not to mention Xbox Series X at all. What's going on?

www.forbes.com

 

[Metroiddarks]

Indeed. People have to remember that Sweeney is selling his tech here. It's the reason things like nanite not working with animated objects was not mentioned. They presented their engine in the best way possible, and did a good job at that. The PS5 got a lot of buzz at the same time. So both those companies are happy.

Yes sure is that is just coincidence we saw for first time Unreal Engine showed in a console instead a PC, because you Epic need more money today not like before
when they show in PC because is best way in that moment to show his demo.

Also is not related than maybe he said he work with Cerny in order to improve the IO/SSD solution but yeah is about marketing with Sony and not Xbox which use that
engine for almost all the internal studios.

Even developers got fooled, thinking they won't have to deal with normal maps at all anymore, but that is not the case. You won't have to for static environments, but you still have to for everything else.

At least you are talking about a position which is not related to rendering believe me were nothing again those guys, they are not 'fooled' so easily as you can think, the day
you talk with one of this guys about a render topic be prepared for a headache in a couple of minutes.

And when Sweeney talks about how the demo was only possible due to what Sony has done with their I/O, they are deliberately avoiding talking about the Xbox. Basically, everything they present is argued from the perspective of coming from a PS4 (Pro), although that is never explicitly mentioned.

He avoid to talk about of Xbox because also he don't want to say Xbox is fraction in that department they make game directly or indirectly to Xbox a difference of a couple of
indie dev which we talk here if you are in your social networks you have to be careful with your words.

 

[Audiophile]

I think the most concise way of putting it would be:

UE5 is made for multiple platforms (should really go without saying).

The UE5 demo was made for PS5.

We don't know if the performance and quality of the UE5 demos is contingent on the PS5 I/O. But I'd argue it's a reasonable proposition to entertain for some segments.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Did Gran Turismo 7 just leak via an Australian professional racing cockpit manufacturer ??

 

[Metroiddarks]

Right now I feel like Shepard talking to the Council. Let me just throw this here.

The simplest explanation is probably the right one here, that Epic has some sort of marketing deal in place with Sony and PlayStation, either for this presentation specifically (which was in effect an ad for the potential and power of the PS5) or perhaps more broadly with more collaborations to come down the line.
As a part of marketing campaigns, you often get notes as a stipulation of the arrangement where you’re not supposed to mention or promote the competition of the entity you’ve done the deal with. In this case, I could easily see the Epic team being told before this “please don’t mention Xbox,” hence all the back-breaking linguistic twists and turns they did to avoid mentioning it at all.

Why Is Epic Cheerleading PS5 And Being Weird About Xbox Series X With UE5?

Epic debuted Unreal Engine 5 on PS5, and went out of its way not to mention Xbox Series X at all. What's going on?

www.forbes.com

Exists a difference between a new with sources and opinion you basically copy an opinion.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Right now I feel like Shepard talking to the Council. Let me just throw this here.

The simplest explanation is probably the right one here, that Epic has some sort of marketing deal in place with Sony and PlayStation, either for this presentation specifically (which was in effect an ad for the potential and power of the PS5) or perhaps more broadly with more collaborations to come down the line.
As a part of marketing campaigns, you often get notes as a stipulation of the arrangement where you’re not supposed to mention or promote the competition of the entity you’ve done the deal with. In this case, I could easily see the Epic team being told before this “please don’t mention Xbox,” hence all the back-breaking linguistic twists and turns they did to avoid mentioning it at all.

Why Is Epic Cheerleading PS5 And Being Weird About Xbox Series X With UE5?

Epic debuted Unreal Engine 5 on PS5, and went out of its way not to mention Xbox Series X at all. What's going on?

www.forbes.com

So it's someone else's opinion, then.
Sweeney was being just as vague and deflecting in answering how well this technology would work on PC, too. And PC isn't a platform in competition or really owned by anyone.

This is all we got in response to someone dismissing it as a marketing deal:



This is all we got when pressed for further information on how it would compare to other platforms:

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Did Gran Turismo 7 just leak via an Australian professional racing cockpit manufacturer ??

Seems like its coming

 

[Brudda26]

Did Gran Turismo 7 just leak via an Australian professional racing cockpit manufacturer ??

Got a link?

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Seems like its coming

Got a link?

Sorry, here it is:
GT7 leaked?

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Seems like its coming

I'm not convinced that logo isn't just thrown together quickly by whoever made the ad, but maybe they know something we don't still.
If true, I hope the whole thing is playable in PS VR.

 

[LED Guy?]

Have you guys noticed something? In that “Road to PS5” GDC video where Mark Cerny talked about the PlayStation 5 and how it would be a game-changer with its revolutionary architecture and it’s SSD and all that, now many MANY developers are saying the same stuff that Mark Cerny was saying back in March this year, like the PS5 being so fast and a revolutionary console, even more so than Xbox Series X, which is something that’s really fascinates me.

Even Tim Sweeney is saying this stuff, and John Carmack did say it as well, keep in mind guys, we are talking about the most bright mind in this gaming industry and they are all saying the same stuff.

Also now we have Tim Sweeney with a new tweet replying to Colteastwood, who is like the propaganda channel for Xbox fanboys to latch onto, he is spreading lies and misinformation, but in the end he got DESTROYED by Tim Sweeney!!

 

[Audiophile]

Seems like its coming

Driveclub 2


Oh wait.....

 

[PaintTinJr]

John Carmack on id Tech 6, Ray Tracing, Consoles, Physics and more - PC Perspective

John Carmack on id Tech 6, Ray Tracing, Consoles, Physics and more John Carmack sat down to talk with us about the current world in graphics including all the

pcper.com

In the last few days, after reading the 2008 Carmack interview about Intel's RT solution - in light of the UE5 demo that was shown -, I've changed my mind about the importance of Full path tracing RT for games - it isn't needed the way Nvidia are selling it IMHO.

Between Carmack and Sweeney they had envisaged the micro-polygon system of the UE5 GI a decade ago and seemed slightly nostalgic of the freedom and efficiency of software renders;, particularly Carmack, he had already made the solid argument for why Intel's trajectory at the time wasn't optimal and presumably why Nvidia's today is still wrong. For him to have talked about showing a IQ win with a demo running at 320p and 10fps to encourage the type changes to hardware he needed, seems massively prophetic for now. Everyone was talking hardware metrics about how to do something great, when what they needed was an UE5 demo to show them something great, and what hardware was needed to make it great.

I think Carmack completely distilled what would be important, and what needed retained. The point he makes about the success of rasterization parallelism is interesting - even 11-12years later., The ability for him to accept leaving the shadow issues on foreground objects to another day to fix the real-time GI efficiently was also insightful.

 

[quest]

Yes sure is that is just coincidence we saw for first time Unreal Engine showed in a console instead a PC, because you Epic need more money today not like before
when they show in PC because is best way in that moment to show his demo.

Also is not related than maybe he said he work with Cerny in order to improve the IO/SSD solution but yeah is about marketing with Sony and not Xbox which use that
engine for almost all the internal studios.


At least you are talking about a position which is not related to rendering believe me were nothing again those guys, they are not 'fooled' so easily as you can think, the day
you talk with one of this guys about a render topic be prepared for a headache in a couple of minutes.


He avoid to talk about of Xbox because also he don't want to say Xbox is fraction in that department they make game directly or indirectly to Xbox a difference of a couple of
indie dev which we talk here if you are in your social networks you have to be careful with your words.

If he was being so careful with his words he would of not been on Twitter saying the PC platform was a piece of junk to hardcore pc users then be forced by his executive team to tweet a half ass statement to try and make amends. It was a great marketing ad by Sony period and they got their money worth with the owner of epic slapping pc fans in face as a bonus.

 

[Corndog]

Because it makes no sense to take the time and money to optimize for both when it’s just a one and done thing, plus it’s clear they don’t want to contribute to console wars. A side-by-side of both would make for an even bigger meltdown for no reason

They are going to need to optimize for both, as well as pc. Why build a demo to only show off your tech for a fraction of your customers.
If they didn’t want to contribute to console wars then they could of ran it on a pc with sufficient ram.

edit: someone needs to ask Sweeney if he still has a favorite climbing tree.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Seems like its coming

I don't doubt it.

I think Polyphony has outsourced their 3D modelling which could be the reason for GT Sports more frequent updates to car roster.
Also i think head honcho Kaz said something along the lines of their assets being produced beyond a quality that PS4 can handle.

I'm no game developer expert but the above clearly speaks of production processes to fast track GT7 release for next gen.

Either way all the games in that image are known titles so maybe there is some credibility to this.

EDIT:
Also a GT7 launch with PS5 will have Sony with an iron grip on Europe starting off next gen.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Sweeney is under an NDA from both platform vendors as to his ability to speak about any capability they may or may not have. Due to the nature of the collaboration with Sony in making the demo possible, and in steering PS5 hardware in the direction it ended up, it's clear he was able to talk about aspects of PS5.
The only real mention he made about XSX was to say he was under an NDA, and that UE5 technology would work "great" on XSX, without saying anything about the console itself.

If the simplest explanation is supposed to be the most likely, you cannot disregard the NDA. One that may or may not be going in Microsoft's favour. If Microsoft were confident XSX could run that demo to the same level of detail, and it isn't Sony IP, and there isn't some secret marketing deal going on, they should be giving Epic Games the freedom to run it on XSX hardware, too. It would be crazy not to with the amount it has rocked the boat.

 

[Gediminas]

Seems like its coming

GT7 would be day 1 for me if it is like old games, like GT4 or GT5.

really like the diversity of cars, parts, tracks and start from 0 to hero.

 

[Audiophile]

I don't doubt it.

I think Polyphony has outsourced their 3D modelling which could be the reason for GT Sports more frequent updates to car roster.
Also i think head honcho Kaz said something along the lines of their assets being produced beyond a quality that PS4 can handle.

I'm no game developer expert but the above clearly speaks of production processes to fast track GT7 release for next gen.

Either way all the games in that image are known titles so maybe there is some credibility to this.

EDIT:
Also a GT7 launch with PS5 will have Sony with an iron grip on Europe starting off next gen.

I agree. I personally find GT utterly sterile and about dull as a box of mud these days, but without a doubt, tonnes of people buy PlayStations just for GT.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

GT7 would be day 1 for me if it is like old games, like GT4 or GT5.

really like the diversity of cars, parts, tracks and start from 0 to hero.

I personally preferred the direction Sport went in. Old Gran Turismo was about grinding until you had a car that could just clean drive past the competition without any challenge. Which isn't how racing actually works, and not how any club racing is ever organised. For me GT:S was the first time it put emphasis on the driver rather than the car, but it seems to have pissed a lot of people off.

Maybe GT needs to split the game into two like Forza has done, and give the car people their tuning game, and the driver people some hard competition with even better licencing and stewarding decisions being made.

 

[Metroiddarks]

Seems like its coming

Gran turismo is a good way to make a showcase of specs.

Note: I am not fan of the simulator but maybe with the VR will be different

 

[Thirty7ven]

Playing games with my heart right now.