Neo Blaster
Member
I think it's easier for people to just buy more than one console than leaving their current ecosystem, even more now that they can keep their catalogs due to BC.
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Agnostic2020
Member
Ps5 and xsx are 2080 and 2080 super equivalent. None are close to nvidia 14.5 tf 2080ti
Shmunter
Member
MS should make online play free, and encourage payment via a value proposition. This is how you claw back some market share. Many do not want yet another rolling subscription when they don’t even have time to play what they want on their primary system.
Free online and I’ll dip my toe. And may stay long term if I’m delighted.
Hell both should be free, but I appreciate you make the rules when you’re the king, not the court jester.
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BattleScar
Member
That depends entirely on how many chunks are being loaded, and whether or not it was using DLSS.
Rusco Da Vino
Member
Where those equivalences come from when AMD did not relalase RDNA2 yet?
Not to mention that the Series X, and the PS5 will have both custom GPUs (and probably some features from RDNA3)
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sircaw
Banned
They are the most Toxic, disingenuous people in the console gaming community.
It really saddens me that xbox executives go on their channels/videos it is just a really bad look.
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Agnostic2020
Member
I m just being realistic TF wise. Nvidia 14.5tf is not easy to beat in pure performance .they can make customisation that helps to punch above their weight for console but when it comes to compute power I m sure we are below rtx 2080ti. Ofcourse its my guess
Thirty7ven
Banned
2080Ti, lol
Just a 1.1K graphics card, that by itself consumes more power than a XSX! That videos is hilarious though, it was funny seeing them geek so much over light affecting color. "It's gonna change games!!! The possibilities", lol no it won't. It will make them look more natural, and it will really streamline workflow but that's it.
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Ascend
Member
Technically, online is not free, but you're not paying for just online either. With Gold you get exclusive game discounts, multiple free games to add to your account per month, and the right to play certain games for free as long as you're a Gold subscriber. So there's more value there.
I guess now that Gamepass is here, they could make online play free for those people. But I doubt they will be making it totally free. The service will take a hit if they do that. Look at the difference in the online service between the free PS3 version and the paid PS+ version on the PS4. The online experience is night and day.
Audiophile
Gold Member
One's an early, unreleased demo for AMD RT hardware that's running variable north of 30fps. The entire console will almost certainly cost ~$499.
The other is a release on Nvidia RTX hardware "hitting 60fps" which will likely have mature drivers and more dev familiarity. A 2080Ti will cost you anwyhere from $1000 to $1700. Even if you took off Nvidia's ridiculous markup, you'd still be paying considerably more for just a GPU.
The 2080Ti is a 14.2TF+ dGPU with 11GB VRAM @ 616GB/s+ and almost certainly more RT hardware. The XSX GPU is a 12.1TF apuGPU with 10GB of its RAM running at 560GB/s, the remainder that is available is 336GB/s and will mostly be used by the CPU/OS. And the there's power consumption...
18-24mths back, most people didn't even believe RT would be in consoles, now we have RT capabilities approaching 2080 levels alongside 10-12TF RDNA2 , 3.5GHz Zen2 CPUS, NVMe SSDS & Custom I/O.
In terms of cost<>performance I'd say it's exceptional; and in terms of relative performance compared to a 2080 Ti for eg. I'd say it's about appropriate.
As the generation goes and we see optimisation; I wouldn't be at all surprised if these consoles pump out results effectively surpassing what we're seeing today on 2080+ GPUs.
I would've loved to have seen some special sauce for the RT so that it could be much more performant, whether AMD or console-specific (preferably the former for the sake of all), but I think we've got about the best we could have reasonably hoped for. I expect there is special sauce in some manner, and that won't be in the hardware specs, but the manner in which devs use and implement the tech when they have a fixed spec to work with, it becomes more standardised and widespread; and have they a budgetary/productivity incentive to do so.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
Online access to F2P games should be free though. And you don't get online access through gamepass games? Like you need Xbox Live on top of that? I didn't know that. PSnow doesn't ask a PS+ subscription for online access.
MasterCornholio
Member
Really quick question about Ray Tracing. I read that there are different types of Ray tracing and that ray tracing is very taxing on a systems performance.
With that said does all type of Ray tracing severely lower system performance or are there types of Ray tracing that are pretty light?
The answer to this question will probably tell us what type of Ray tracing developers will incorporate in their games.
Oddspeak
Member
This is good to hear. Too many "this gameplay is from a PC with hardware equivalent to PS5" disclaimers showing up will make the event - and the PS5 - look bad.
Ascend
Member
There's Game Pass and Game Pass ultimate. The latter includes Gold, the former doesn't.
On PC, there's only Game Pass, because online is still free.
FeiRR
Banned
Speaking of GP on PC. I've just spent a few minutes trying to figure out why it starts with a black screen and then nothing happens. It turned out that it was trying to log in into the default Microsoft account. Since that is my work account I use with Teams, it failed without any message or information. Nice way to code your apps, Microsoft...
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Neo Blaster
Member
Yep, using this software GI solution together with hardware RT seems to be the best cost/benefit. Using that UE5 demo with these two solutions and reducing the size of those 8k textures to 4k, I wonder if 1800p60 is achievable.
FranXico
Member
They know what they need to do to stop the FUD.
Neo Blaster
Member
Swap 'SEX' for 'One' and 'PS5' for 'PS4' and you have a summary of current gen.
Thirty7ven
Banned
You gotta handle that manually in the account section. Once I used my personal outlook for GP it used it as default for windows, which threw me in for a loop. If you a have small SSD like I do, and you plan on using an external then you will also have to set up that manually in windows as Gamepass app will install in default and won't let you choose directly. Also keep an eye on optimized files folder, because Gamepass games have an habit of uninstalling but storing all their data anyway in a folder that reserves a ton of memory just so you want to reinstall.
My experience with the app is pretty negative overall, and I hate the achievements popping up on screen on a PC but maybe you can turn those off. It was cool to play some of the games for the price of 1$ but game selection on PC doesn't compare to Xbox, it's a completely different value proposition.
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What I've found interesting about the Unreal 5 tech demo that I didn't notice any nice reflections in it. They not really showcased it. There was some water reflections but it was not clear enough to judge how it was rendered.
Maybe the ray tracing reflections are not solved yet in this new engine. (The part when she was going through a narrow part between walls would have been more cool if the walls were from some reflective material and her face had been relected on it.)
Is ray tracing compatible with Nanite and Lumen?
Maybe the ray tracing reflections are not solved yet in this new engine. (The part when she was going through a narrow part between walls would have been more cool if the walls were from some reflective material and her face had been relected on it.)
Is ray tracing compatible with Nanite and Lumen?
alabtrosMyster
Member
This is just what games have pushed for for decades now.... RT done right is kind of a big deal, but the performance has to be better, which is often the case when a new graphic effect is introduced., bump mapping, anti-aliasing, pixel shaders, textures, gouraud shading, etc. all used to be "luxuries".
Are you trying to define the performance of RDNA2 based on RDNA1 vs Nvidia-Touring on the PC to compare with consoles that don't even exist?
In all console generations, the console delivers much more than the equivalent of the PC.
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SportsFan581
Member
I think pigs would fly before MS endangered any of their subscription based revenue.
SportsFan581
Member
Very hard to compare, I suspect that RDNA2 can't match Touring in RT performance to begin with.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Games have pushed for approximations to real physics. Performance dictates how approximate it is to the real thing.
Yes, Ray Tracing is the end goal because it's the closest approximation we have. But something like Lumen offers incredible approximation at probably a quarter of the cost of path tracing. It's the waterfall question, how approximate to the real thing do you actually need it to be in a video-game?
But if you tell me these consoles can do path tracing in an open world game, middle of a city block with hundreds of NPCs/Cars/Objects/reflections/complex animation, then hey let's do it right now.
pawel86ck
Banned
Are you trying to suggest 10-12 TF RDNA2 will match 17-18 TF turing? At best we will see 15-20% IPC gains.
Yes I know consoles delivers better graphics than PC with similar hardware, but only because developers are using tricks and gimmicks.
alabtrosMyster
Member
This is par for the course we have people going around telling us that the consoles are actually RDNA3.
alabtrosMyster
Member
Yup, having that stupid xbox gamebar coming back to life ater every windows 10 update is one of the worst side of PC gaming right now, I can't wait enough for this thing to die like the GFWL thing did a couple of years ago. This is one more marketing by nagging effort from MS, if there was a #
and that boot time popup that keeps asking you to sign on with a windows account... I just love to click
not this time assuming I will ever want tolink my computer to my microsoft account.I should really install Linux at this point, but I need Windows for the #$%@# games.
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Persian buttercup
Member
I wonder where sage is. I haven't seen him lately.
Radical_3d
Member
Who is sage? Don’t we still have that guy that were butts on a train that speak funny?
Rusco Da Vino
Member
saintjules
Member
Fake
Member
Busy
Imagine being that pathetic.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Busy
No advantages then lists some pretty cool advantages.
I will say this I don't think too many 3rd party devs will use a ton of their resources tweaking games for the superior SSD.
I believe we will only really see it shine in 1st party titles.
But even those non advantage advantages he listed I am good with
IllegalLemon
Member
The guy you're referring to is SenjutsuSage, a person who pretended to be neutral but he was nowhere near having a neutral stance. He's probably too busy spreading his FUD and ignorance elsewhere just like any other fanboy would. He got stomped on and schooled many times over in here and perhaps decided to take his nonsense to some place else, where there are people who share the arrogant stance he has. He's basically a walking contradiction at this point.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Indeed, you can feel it's dropping way under 30fps in those very few moments of movements, he's been given a notice to avoid moving around and only use static presentation of ray tracing. I personally can see it around 20fps mark in those moments or even worse at the the other one moving slowly into a cave.
Radical_3d
Member
I'm pretty sure he's not. It was a guy whos name was butts on a train or something like that. And he wrote unintelligible posts.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
It is actually next-gen.
Expect this graphic fidelity next gen on xsx....
IllegalLemon
Member
Oh trust me, SenjutsuSage was basically in the same level of ignorance as TimDog who had his ass banned from here for all the nonsense and FUD he kept on throwing out here without using even an ounce of logic.
Can we please talk about the actual subject of this thread? Or is talking about how bad youtubers are that prefer the Xbox platform more important?
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Were talking about rabid fanois on either side actually.
Though I gotta admit thats been mostly about Xbox fans in this thread.
Had a hard time fighting both sides on this forum though.
Some Sony fans here are also streching things really far and can't handle it that PS5 might be weaker overall.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You had me until the end. Well played.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Listen having the "weaker" console doens't mean shit.
Sonys first party titles will still dominate.
I haven't seen anything from Microsoft first party studios yet that comes close to them in quality.
So as a Sony fanboi I really don't care if TFLOP matter more then SSD Speed.
Games will decide and I have a hard time believing MicroSoft is going to produce higher quality games then Sony.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They will both have their strengths and weaknesses. There is no "overall".
FranXico
Member
It's as ridiculous as saying that the XsX will not have any advantages other than higher resolution and a bit better RT. LOLNo advantages then lists some pretty cool advantages.
I will say this I don't think too many 3rd party devs will use a ton of their resources tweaking games for the superior SSD.
I believe we will only really see it shine in 1st party titles.
But even those non advantage advantages he listed I am good with
Ok.
Burrito Bandito
Banned
12tf rdna2 in an enclosed system can probably get close.
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splattered
Member
Personally I would rather load into a game 4-10 seconds slower but with higher resolution and framerate.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Without a doubt.
Its going to be very interesting where 3rd party games land as far as what consoles have what advantages.
Being a Sony fan first I am more interested in what the PS5 can do.
Having a beefy PC already not sure I am buying the XsX but MS doesn't care I am already in their ecosystem with the PC.
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