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[TeamGhobad]

Why not?

possible but i like to think the gpus are 2.0.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Next year 12TF should be still considered impressive in a console, but people should keep in mind 18+TF monsters from both AMD and Nvidia will be already there.

I don't think it will matter in the slightest. The leap in power is going to be huge when comparing PS4 Pro to PS5 - the quality of the games will be astounding. 12TF is still very impressive (despite 18TF appearing next year), considering there were people who thought the consoles would end up with 8TFs.

 

[Fake]

possible but i like to think the gpus are 2.0.

Agree. Just like to keep my expectations in check.

 

[DJ12]

And no source of course

Just guess work on his part. It's unlikely Phil will trot up on stage to sell amds upcoming consumer space gpu.

 

[R600]

What is your prediction for clocks/CUs?

36CU active at 2.0GHZ for Sony
44CUs for Anaconda

For Sony pure and simply because Gonzalo 1.0 > Gonzalo 1.8 > Flute/Oberon connection has yet to be debunked.

Its real. Thats PS5. Its a console with 520-530GB/s, there is no way its packing 13-14TF. Its way, way too low, especially with RT.

For Anaconda I dont know because we have no referrences. Its too vague for me to say much.

 

[Bani]

So everyone is on board 12TF now (pretty sure someone saying Bingo! to number speculation isn't confirmation btw)..

2x power of X1X is 12TF GCN, but that's only 10.x RDNA

..only one of those options is really believable imo

60CU die size is crazy big

Sure Sherlock

 

[bitbydeath]

It is now at the point that these APUs/SoCs will require EUV just to reduce power/heat a little. I again couldn't see next-gen using EUV/7nm+ as the chips would've taped out a long time ago. Also AMD showed that banner at last years CES showing "7nm" not "7nm+" for PS5.

The real big thing to know now is price. Sony have made it clear they want to sell fast and price is key in that. I just can't currently see how a low ($399/£349) price is possible right now. Microsoft already have had, and are comfortable with, $499 and also likely have a $299 Lockhart on deck for the price conscious.

I just have this funny feeling there will be major twists to come to turn everything on its head again.....

By that same logic you wouldn't expect RT either as it currently doesn't exist in consumer form, same as 7nmEUV

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

36CU active at 2.0GHZ for Sony
44CUs for Anaconda

For Sony pure and simply because Gonzalo 1.0 > Gonzalo 1.8 > Flute/Oberon connection has yet to be debunked.

Its real. Thats PS5. Its a console with 520-530GB/s, there is no way its packing 13-14TF. Its way, way too low, especially with RT.

For Anaconda I dont know because we have no referrences. Its too vague for me to say much.

Fair enough. But *IF* say 52CU/2.0GHz for PS5 and 64CU/1.47GHz for XSX did come to pass what would you think? I've already been surprised a couple of times so far with EUV confirmation being next!

By that same logic you wouldn't expect RT either as it currently doesn't exist in consumer form, same as 7nmEUV

Sorry, bitbydeath...I don't follow. Which part of my post? RT is already a confirmed spec but EUV isn't.

 

[existensmaximum]

PS5の発売日や価格に関するデマが広がる。ソニーは「公式発表ではない」と否定 | ゲーム・エンタメ最新情報のファミ通.com

ネットで拡散されているプレイステーション5（プレステ5）の価格や発売日などに関する情報に関して、ソニー・インタラクティブエンタテインメントが「公式発表ではない」と否定。

www.famitsu.com

999$ !!!!!

Yeah, no way the PS5 is going to look like a shitty Alienware PC

 

[bitbydeath]

36CU active at 2.0GHZ for Sony
44CUs for Anaconda

For Sony pure and simply because Gonzalo 1.0 > Gonzalo 1.8 > Flute/Oberon connection has yet to be debunked.

Its real. Thats PS5. Its a console with 520-530GB/s, there is no way its packing 13-14TF. Its way, way too low, especially with RT.

For Anaconda I dont know because we have no referrences. Its too vague for me to say much.

 

[bitbydeath]

Sorry, bitbydeath...I don't follow. Which part of my post? RT is already a confirmed spec but EUV isn't.

The taping off being ages ago.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Fair enough. But *IF* say 52CU/2.0GHz for PS5 and 64CU/1.47GHz for XSX did come to pass what would you think? I've already been surprised a couple of times so far with EUV confirmation being next!



Sorry, bitbydeath...I don't follow. Which part of my post? RT is already a confirmed spec but EUV isn't.

Haha what ever you have believed upto now for ps5 has been changed from 2019 to 8 tf . Now 399 is next for you then 7 Nm EUV

 

[CameFromNearFuture]

Maybe notably less CUs? I'm really not looking (hearing?) forward to how loud PS5 will be in any case, though...

Actually a good amount of CUs at 1.8ghz Last time I checked.

 

[R600]

Fair enough. But *IF* say 52CU/2.0GHz for PS5 and 64CU/1.47GHz for XSX did come to pass what would you think? I've already been surprised a couple of times so far with EUV confirmation being next!

I would wonder what the hell have MS been doing these past 3 years.

Because that hypotetical chip is NOT good. Its horrid for console actually.

It is way below RDNA 1.0 sweet spot (1.6-1.7GHZ being perfect), let alone RDNA2 one (that one might be 1.8-2.0), so they are effectively losing 0.25-0.5GHZ while also putting out bigger chip with lower yields and less chance of bringing that size down with refresh.

Both Sony and MS delivered chips at ~10% of their PC equivalent sweet spots, so I see no reason for MS to go with 64CUs running some 600MHZ down on Sony, and far below RDNA sweetspot. Its just bonkers and makes 0 sense.

Tells you Klee is full of shit.

 

[mckmas8808]

So we are all on the same boat that these consoles will cost at least $499 right?

 

[Agnostic2020]

36CU active at 2.0GHZ for Sony
44CUs for Anaconda

For Sony pure and simply because Gonzalo 1.0 > Gonzalo 1.8 > Flute/Oberon connection has yet to be debunked.

Its real. Thats PS5. Its a console with 520-530GB/s, there is no way its packing 13-14TF. Its way, way too low, especially with RT.

For Anaconda I dont know because we have no referrences. Its too vague for me to say much.

One thing you are missing is that in flute and Oberon tests the CU count is not there . Just the clocks are there . Reset era guessed the 40 number because of 5700xt being the maximum being out right now . So 40 cu has no evidence other than hearsay

 

[mckmas8808]

I would wonder what the hell have MS been doing these past 3 years.

Because that hypotetical chip is NOT good. Its horrid for console actually.

It is way below RDNA 1.0 sweet spot (1.6-1.7GHZ being perfect), let alone RDNA2 one (that one might be 1.8-2.0), so they are effectively losing 0.25-0.5GHZ while also putting out bigger chip with lower yields and less chance of bringing that size down with refresh.

Both Sony and MS delivered chips at ~10% of their PC equivalent sweet spots, so I see no reason for MS to go with 64CUs running some 600MHZ down on Sony, and far below RDNA sweetspot. Its just bonkers and makes 0 sense.

Tells you Klee is full of shit.

Maybe MS will increase the MHz in a later firmware....

 

[bitbydeath]

Actually a good amount of CUs at 1.8ghz Last time I checked.

There was a mod update, you must get verified or stop posting 'insider information'.

 

[SlimySnake]

Actually a good amount of CUs at 1.8ghz Last time I checked.

so were you verified?

who did you check with to confirm the number of CUs?

 

[R600]

One thing you are missing is that in flute and Oberon tests the CU count is not there . Just the clocks are there . Reset era guessed the 40 number because of 5700xt being the maximum being out right now . So 40 cu has no evidence other than hearsay

There are other two things associated with Flute/Gonzalo, and these are :

Total system BW - 528GB/s
FireStrike score leaked by Apisak - 20K

That total BW is far too low for 13TF. With RT and Zen2 I would say even 10TF is pushing it.

For FireStrike, its self explanatory. A chip with ~2700X performance and Navi XT/2070Super will hit 20K without too much problem, so thats where I would expect Sony to be. Which is alot tbh, and more then I imagined.

 

[CameFromNearFuture]

So we are all on the same boat that these consoles will cost at least $499 right?

499 is the right spot tbh.

I thinks its Very unlikely they Will Go over 500 dollars in US.

 

[Agnostic2020]

There are other two things associated with Flute/Gonzalo, and these are :

Total system BW - 528GB/s
FireStrike score leaked by Apisak - 20K

That total BW is far too low for 13TF. With RT and Zen2 I would say even 10TF is pushing it.

For FireStrike, its self explanatory. A chip with ~2700X performance and Navi XT/2070Super will hit 20K without too much problem, so thats where I would expect Sony to be. Which is alot tbh, and more then I imagined.

Those are ryzen 2 in the tests that u r mentioning and I agree if we were getting Ryzen 2 in consoles . Zen 2 is weaker than ryzen 2 and fire strike changes drastically with weaker cpu.zen 2 is mobile variant of ryzen 2

 

[LordOfChaos]

Honestly, where's the catch?!? There has to be one, even two, because so far the next-gen consoles are shaping up to be waaay damn good to be true. Sony and MS have to be willing to hit quite a loss on the hardware itself, that's the only logical explanation I can figure out.

They ain't going to be 399 like the PS4 again, we can safely assume that much.

Though for a fully flash based generation, Zen 2 series processors, and GPUs that so far seem beyond the average expectation, if it's 499 that seems very well worth it for the added futureproofing.

Much beyond 499 though and it would start to hit some mental barriers for me for a console, I'd be looking at 756.89 in CAD with conversion and tax...

 

[TeamGhobad]

anyone else kinda disappointed in the controller not having adaptive triggers or speakers?

 

[CameFromNearFuture]

so were you verified?

who did you check with to confirm the number of CUs?

I dont need to be verified. I dont want a verified account as I dont think I should hold a higher status than the rest of you, and its not fair to be forced to give my sources as I dont want to expose people who could be sued because this is not kids stuff, its serious stuff. People must keep secrets because they are under contracts.

 

[bitbydeath]

One thing you are missing is that in flute and Oberon tests the CU count is not there . Just the clocks are there . Reset era guessed the 40 number because of 5700xt being the maximum being out right now . So 40 cu has no evidence other than hearsay

Also this part of these Shakespeare rumours always gets skipped over.

One thing was clear: the future consoles will have the "greatest compute jump in any console," they said.

PS5 Devkit Name, NextBox camera a huge priority,

They claim that they received a photo of the dev kit before the illustrations arrived. So with that out the way, here we go. The best photo our tipster sent isn’t much — a 33.5Kb gif that is just 238 pixels by 144 pixels. It’s been cropped and downgraded as if to remove any possible...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Evilms]

The Polygonal Evolution of 5 Iconic PlayStation Characters

From Kratos’ stoic face to the fearsome Rathalos, developers discuss how the PS4 has unlocked new levels of detail.

blog.us.playstation.com

Thunderjaw Horizon zero dawn : 550 000 polygons
Delsin Rowe Infamous second son : 120 000 polygons
Sir Galahad The order 1886 : 100 000 polygons
Marius Ryse son of rome : 85 000 polygons
Kratos God of war : 80 000 polygons
Lucas Kellan Killzone shadow fall : 40 000 polygons

I wonder how much sensua in hellblade 2 will require polygons ?

 

[44alltheway]

I dont need to be verified. I dont want a verified account as I dont think I should hold a higher status than the rest of you, and its not fair to be forced to give my sources as I dont want to expose people who could be sued because this is not kids stuff, its serious stuff. People must keep secrets because they are under contracts.

 

[R600]

Those are ryzen 2 in the tests that u r mentioning and I agree if we were getting Ryzen 2 in consoles . Zen 2 is weaker than ryzen 2 and fire strike changes drastically with weaker cpu.zen 2 is mobile variant of ryzen 2

No, I used 2700X because its 8 core part with less cache and lower clocks vs Zen 2 3700. And I used it because Flute benchmark shows stripped L3 cache (32MB > 8MB)

This makes ton of sense, as 32MB of L3 cache is ~60% of Zen2 die size so stripping that down in consoles will result in dramatically smaller die size while still retaining good performance.

So, that Zen2 8 core chip in Flute is closer to 2700X then 3700, but its not mobile part.

 

[bitbydeath]

I dont need to be verified. I dont want a verified account as I dont think I should hold a higher status than the rest of you, and its not fair to be forced to give my sources as I dont want to expose people who could be sued because this is not kids stuff, its serious stuff. People must keep secrets because they are under contracts.

We don't need that information, just mods who will not give out the details of your verification.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The taping off being ages ago.

Tape outs happen well in advance of products being in shops to buy. e.g. Zen 2 taped out by/before January 2018 but didn't go on sale until July 2019. I would think a console APU would have an even longer lead time? *shrug*

Haha what ever you have believed upto now for ps5 has been changed from 2019 to 8 tf . Now 399 is next for you then 7 Nm EUV

So what are your predictions for specs, price and process node? To be fair 7NP is possibly more likely due to being fully 7nm compatible.

Actually a good amount of CUs at 1.8ghz Last time I checked.

Oh...You're back! So PS5 is 1.8GHz and not 2.0GHz. Are we talking above or below 50CUs?

 

[Agnostic2020]

anyone else kinda disappointed in the controller not having adaptive triggers or speakers?

If it ain't broke don't fix it I guess . Lots of people love the pad and they will save some money here to use in the console . But from a gamer perspective yes . New features are always exciting even if they end up being gimmicky. Some games used the rumbles in the x1 pad amazing and some devs used the touch pad on the DS4 in an innovative way

 

[TLZ]

Sorry my fake insider, please dont delete account when the news comes official.

Like when I said before this week that we would have news coming down?? Yeah we know lol, sorry your dreams of ps5 most powerful is substantiated by fake insiders. Please make sure you are around when the news breaks. Phil is already on record via gamespot interview saying they Expect Xbox being the performance leader AGAIN!!! Where is Sony? Or we just have fake insiders lol good luck

 

[R600]

Also this part of these Shakespeare rumours always gets skipped over.

PS5 Devkit Name, NextBox camera a huge priority,

They claim that they received a photo of the dev kit before the illustrations arrived. So with that out the way, here we go. The best photo our tipster sent isn’t much — a 33.5Kb gif that is just 238 pixels by 144 pixels. It’s been cropped and downgraded as if to remove any possible...

www.neogaf.com

6TF > 12TF is nowhere biggest compute jump in history.

Check PS2 > PS3. Some parts where 25-30x so...whoever told that story went a bit overboard.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Tape outs happen well in advance of products being in shops to buy. e.g. Zen 2 taped out by/before January 2018 but didn't go on sale until July 2019. I would think a console APU would have an even longer lead time? *shrug*



So what are your predictions for specs, price and process node? To be fair 7NP is possibly more likely due to being fully 7nm compatible.



Oh...You're back! So PS5 is 1.8GHz and not 2.0GHz. Are we talking above or below 50CUs?

I m also not sure anymore . I was expecting both to be in 10. Something Navi TF but I keep getting surprised .so I can't make a clear judgement now . As for price I feel Sony will try to undercut series x. But that's just my feeling nothing concrete

 

[CameFromNearFuture]

There was a mod update, you must get verified or stop posting 'insider information'.

Take me as an insider is people's choice.

I Just speak things that I have heard and read. Its not a crime or worth banning. Lets take it easy.

 

[LordOfChaos]

6TF > 12TF is nowhere biggest compute jump in history.

Check PS2 > PS3. Some parts where 25-30x so...whoever told that story went a bit overboard.

PS1 ran on a MIPS R3051 with 5 KB L1 cache, running at 33.8688 MHz, PS2 ran a MIPS III R5900-based "Emotion Engine", clocked at 294.912 MHz (299 MHz on newer versions), with 128-bit SIMD plus VPU0 and VPU1 (floating point multiply accumulator × 9, floating point divider × 1) each VPU contains a vector unit (VU), instruction cache, data cache and interface unit, at 147MHz. And then had the PS1 CPU as the IO processor!

This CPU jump will be awesome, but yeah, I'm not seeing the biggest leap in PS history

 

[bitbydeath]

Tape outs happen well in advance of products being in shops to buy. e.g. Zen 2 taped out by/before January 2018 but didn't go on sale until July 2019. I would think a console APU would have an even longer lead time? *shrug*

According to Wiki tape-out occurs right before manufacturing, which hasn't started yet so I'd imagine tape-out hasn't occurred yet either. I think it's still too early.

In electronics design, tape-out or tapeout is the final result of the design process for integrated circuits or printed circuit boards before they are sent for manufacturing.

Tape-out - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[xool]

I am still holding back getting too excited over the raw numbers people are throwing around.

If the actual teraflop number would have been twice the the 6 TF of the X I think Phil would have said that number instead of how he has been wording it:

"We wanted to have a dramatic upgrade from the Xbox One base console," Xbox boss Phil Spencer told GameSpot. "So when we do the math, we're over eight times the GPU power of the Xbox One, and two times what an Xbox One X is."

I think and could be wrong that a 12 teraflop navi system would be stronger then two times a current X.

I know the leaks have said 12 TFs and I hope those are correct I am just not totally convinced they are closer to 10 TF.

They must mean XboxOneS @1.4TF (not OG @1.3TF) ... 1.4x8 is still only 11.2TF but near enough .. but there's still room confusion via rounding up and down..

..either way I agree with you main point about TF, Navi because a 12TF RDNA is ~10x (not 8x) "better" than an XONE_S

Guessing around 52 CU which goes from 10.x to 13 TF as clock goes from 1.6 to 2.0 GHz (expecting lower end clocks)

 

[DJ12]

I dont need to be verified. I dont want a verified account as I dont think I should hold a higher status than the rest of you, and its not fair to be forced to give my sources as I dont want to expose people who could be sued because this is not kids stuff, its serious stuff. People must keep secrets because they are under contracts.

This old excuse again.

It won't make you any better than anyone else. But I guess if you aren't going to do it your going to get banned so choice is yours I guess.

 

[SlimySnake]

Take me as an insider is people's choice.

I Just speak things that I have heard and read. Its not a crime or worth banning. Lets take it easy.

thats not how things work around here.

either get verified or stop using your insider sources. this shouldnt be that hard.

 

[TLZ]

I dont need to be verified. I dont want a verified account as I dont think I should hold a higher status than the rest of you, and its not fair to be forced to give my sources as I dont want to expose people who could be sued because this is not kids stuff, its serious stuff. People must keep secrets because they are under contracts.

Take me as an insider is people's choice.

I Just speak things that I have heard and read. Its not a crime or worth banning. Lets take it easy.

You can't keep using that excuse mate. Read the Mod's post below. Otherwise anyone can come in claiming they're insiders.

Reply bans after this point. This is a great thread, and if you want to weigh in as an "insider", prepare to PM us with receipts.

 

[Agnostic2020]

They must mean XboxOneS @1.4TF (not OG @1.3TF) ... 1.4x8 is still only 11.2TF but near enough .. but there's still room confusion via rounding up and down..

..either way I agree with you main point about TF, Navi because a 12TF RDNA is ~10x (not 8x) "better" than an XONE_S

Guessing around 52 CU which goes from 10.x to 13 TF as clock goes from 1.6 to 2.0 GHz (expecting lower end clocks)

If it was not 12 rdna TF when windows central reposted the 12 TF number MS would ask them to remove it as they wouldn't want to get into any issues once they launch the console . It's safe to assume it's 12 TF of Navi

 

[bitbydeath]

6TF > 12TF is nowhere biggest compute jump in history.

Check PS2 > PS3. Some parts where 25-30x so...whoever told that story went a bit overboard.

What about 1.84TF > 13TF?

Edit: Actually that 13TF is more like 16TF isn't it?

 

[Dabaus]

I feel like people are too obsessed with power and teraflop numbers. Whats more important, teraflops or sales and market share? Sales and market share obviously. Id rather sony make a more modest 10 teraflop console at 399 than a 12-teraflop monstrosity that can only sell at 499 or more. Am i wrong in my assumption here? Like would aiming for something around 10 teraflop be cheaper than 12-13 or is it so small a difference in costs savings that you may as well go 12-13?

 

[Thorrgal]

It's K, Lee (Kelly Rickards) of former Gamefan magazine, later EGM I think (used to post here https://www.neogaf.com/members/kleegamefan.2272/ )

Black guy bottom right http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showth...Joe-Redifer-you-made-EGM&viewfull=1#post78374

Would you trust this man ?

More than someone who is ignorant enough to expect a liquid cooling solution in a console.

Besides, why do you think he looks untrustworthy?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

According to Wiki tape-out occurs right before manufacturing, which hasn't started yet so I'd imagine tape-out hasn't occurred yet either. I think it's still too early.

Tape-out - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

As I understand it it doesn't work like that. They don't tapeout and then start making the consoles. Key part from that wiki:

First tapeout is rarely the end of work for the design team. Most chips will go through a series of iterations, called "spins", in which errors are detected and fixed after testing the first article.

So the design is done but then bugs have to be fixed and in more serious cases floorplan changes might need to be done etc.

I'll probably get laughed at with this but......I really believe the PS5 dev kit we've seen has the APU/SoC that will be in the retail console (with only clocks possibly differing).

 

[CameFromNearFuture]

Tape outs happen well in advance of products being in shops to buy. e.g. Zen 2 taped out by/before January 2018 but didn't go on sale until July 2019. I would think a console APU would have an even longer lead time? *shrug*



So what are your predictions for specs, price and process node? To be fair 7NP is possibly more likely due to being fully 7nm compatible.



Oh...You're back! So PS5 is 1.8GHz and not 2.0GHz. Are we talking above or below 50CUs?

56CUs 1.8ghz

 

[bitbydeath]

I feel like people are too obsessed with power and teraflop numbers. Whats more important, teraflops or sales and market share? Sales and market share obviously. Id rather sony make a more modest 10 teraflop console at 399 than a 12-teraflop monstrosity that can only sell at 499 or more. Am i wrong in my assumption here? Like would aiming for something around 10 teraflop be cheaper than 12-13 or is it so small a difference in costs savings that you may as well go 12-13?

Sony needed to go big for VR to gain greater traction as it needs a big leap to get away from tech demos.

 

[R600]

What about 1.84TF > 13TF?

Edit: Actually that 13TF is more like 16TF isn't it?

Still smaller, by some margin.

Xbox to 360 = 6FLOPs to 240GFLOPs
PS2 to PS3 = 6FLOPs (total) to ~400GF total