Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Gamernyc78 said:
Nah but he also mentioned other things too. He also definitely described the Godfall type game before it was shown.
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kd8iptas8zx21.jpg


what else did he say?
 
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sonomamashine said:
I will repeat again
If AMD GPU is half the price 600/2=300
And the other 300 goes to other expenses (middle men) etc..
Doesn't the Ps5 need those (middle men) aswell....
It just teleport from the factory thru a portal directly to your house.

Everybody knows that, but still there are some expenses to pay other than AMD.
Can you post your expectations, ps5 specs, xbox specs and prices.
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Good lord.....
All the extra cost you speak of are not additional cost that need to be added to the cost of putting this chip inside a console.

It's amazing how little the PS4 cost isn't it really with all the added cost your are trying to add. Fix up your argument then come back to me.

As it stands your argument is thus. A 599 retail GPU will not be in a console that cost 499.

Well that argument is dumb for the reasons already outlined but to summarise:

Ms and Sony have already paid for the design and this will not be added to the overall cost of the console. R and d work is usually written of as a loss.

They only need to pay to fab the chip.

The PCB memory and layout of the board and all other related cost will not be changed by putting in a much worse or far better Apu.

And finally which seems to be your biggest issue, the GPU doesn't cost 599 to make anyway.

Notoriously consoles when launched are sold with very little or no profit for the manufacturer. Which is why soon after the initial release there is normally a revison.

You don't seem able to grasp any of these concepts so I don't see the point of continuing this further.
 
Agnostic2020 said:
Just now Klee has said the 64cu is not what he is confirming but rather 12.08Tf for series x is what he said bingo to
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Great, because it was absolute bottom of a barrel type of leak.

64CUs at 1.4GHZ when RDNA sweet spot will probably be ~1.7-1.9GHZ is mental.

"Yea, we want bigger chip with worse yields and less ability to bring size down on further node + go below clock sweet spot just because".
 
DeltaPolarBear said:
Well, all I can say, is good luck to them.

Because what you are suggesting involves the complete abandoning of what a game console benefits from. A stable hardware base. And all for the false promise of being the "most powerful".

Sony will just keep making 1st party games that play to the strength of the hardware, just like what Nintendo is doing. Because consoles are not the point of console gaming; the games are. MS is taking a risk, just like they did with Always Online. I am looking forward to the hilarious results.
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They're making the bet that it's not the unicity of the hardware that makes the games good and the customers stick but rather that you can play them anywhere, forever and at a quality dictated by your budget. We'll see who's right soon enough.
 
DJ12 said:
Good lord.....
All the extra cost you speak of are not additional cost that need to be added to the cost of putting this chip inside a console
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Im not talking about that tho, like i previously said That chip that AMD made gonna go thru middle men and sell for 600$
Now that chip is gonna be on ps5 + blueray + ryzen + ssd + ram +++ etc and sell for the same price or less ?
Like Sony dont go thru the middle men and that console teleports directly from factory to your house.
DJ12 said:
Ms and Sony have already paid for the design and this will not be added to the overall cost of the console. R and d work is usually written of as a loss.

They only need to pay to fab the chip
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Why are you bringing that again, we already concluded that it was the case.
DJ12 said:
And finally which seems to be your biggest issue, the GPU doesn't cost 599 to make anyway
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Again i never said the gpu cost 599 to make, read my posts.
 
R600 said:
Great, because it was absolute bottom of a barrel type of leak.

64CUs at 1.4GHZ when RDNA sweet spot will probably be ~1.7-1.9GHZ is mental.

"Yea, we want bigger chip with worse yields and less ability to bring size down on further node + go below clock sweet spot just because".
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Same reason why they went with 44 CUs for the x1x when the biggest Polaris was only 36 CUs.

RDNA sweet spot is not 1.7-1.9. It's 1.6 ghz according to the dozens of tests ran by demoncleaner when simulating gonzalo. Going from 1.6 to 2.0 ghz is only a 25% clockspeed increase that comes at the cost of a 75% increase in power. No one is designing their console around that. They only way you get those clocks is if they hit their base clocks and decided they had enough headroom to push it further.

its entirely possible that MS also goes from 1.475 to 1.6 or even higher in the lead up to launch but it will have to be within their tdp budget.
 
Alright Mr. Fisher,
Some questions.

HBM, yes or no?
Re-RAM. yes or no?
SSD. 1TB or 2TB?
Tflops. 12-14, Yes or no?

And most importantly, without burning your source. How do you know all of this? Is your source a game dev like kleegamefan's source?
 
SlimySnake said:
Alright Mr. Fisher,
Some questions.

HBM, yes or no?
Re-RAM. yes or no?
SSD. 1TB or 2TB?
Tflops. 12-14, Yes or no?

And most importantly, without burning your source. How do you know all of this? Is your source a game dev like kleegamefan's source?
Click to expand...
He would never talk about the source, not even a hint.
 
* PS5 fab 7nm+/EUV.
* PS5 cpu clock 200Mhz lower than Xbox Series X.
* 52 active CUs at 2.0Ghz ~ 13.3TFlops for PS5.
* 52 active CUs at 1.82Ghz ~ 12.1TFlops for Xbox Series X.
* some setup of HBM is in PS5.
* Judging from PS5's specs he's seen it'll most likely be a $599 cost with $100 loss and retail for $499.
* PS5 reveal in Feb, shows the console too.
* Fully trusts Klee, has he's absolutely reliable.

forum.beyond3d.com

Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

It would probably a clever trojan horse into the PC games market... Or the other way This Tommy Fisher self proclaimed insider is now apparently verified by the mod on Gaf has the following summary: * PS5 fab 7nm+/EUV * PS5 cpu clock 200MGhz lower than XSX * 52 active CUs at 2.0Ghz ~...
forum.beyond3d.com forum.beyond3d.com
 
Tqaulity said:
So here is something that nobody is really talking about at length. Microsoft has left several clues if you pay attention that this upcoming generation for Xbox will be fundamentally different than the previous 3 have been. Between the naming convention with "Series", the form factor, and the focus on forward and backward compatibility, I believe that the Xbox will truly become a gaming PC designed for the living room (i.e. Microsoft's version of what Stream box was supposed to be).

In particular, I believe it will adopt the PC hardware iterative model as well as the classic Iphone model. With model, don't be surprised if we not only see a mid-cycle upgrade, but rather see 2, 3, or more iterations on the hardware as the cycle goes on. And not only that, while I doubt it will be every year like the iphone, don't be surprised if in the traditional 5-7 console cycle, we see Xbox Series X, Series X v2., Seriex Xv3 etc. In fact, with this approach, the concept of a new "generation" will be no more.

Now this approach is fundamental difference than the traditional model of building a console to "last" for 5-7 years. With this model Microsoft can achieve the following:
  • By releasing new hardware every 2-3 years, they can guarantee that there is always a top end model matching high end PC for the enthusiast crowd
  • They can cover the entire price range with hardware for different audiences (from entry level to enthusiast)
  • They can remove the barriers associated with a new "generation" of consoles and the necessary "reset" for consumers and developers alike
  • They no longer need to worry about what Sony does with PS5, PS6 etc from a spec perspective as their next iteration will release soon afterward and one up it in terms of power anyway
  • They effectively establish Xbox as a hardware agnostic gaming platform (i.e. like PC) where you can play anything from the past or future whatever level hardware you will like
THIS is where Microsoft wants to go. It is the culmination of Phil's philosophy that the number of consoles you sell don't matter but rather the number of people playing games on your platform/services. Every console generation tops out ~100 Million units of sales and then the next resets back to 0 and struggles to match the previous. With this approach, MIcrosoft can look at the total number of people gaming on Xbox, Xbox360, Xbox One, Xbox Series, and PC as their metrics for success. THAT is true growth where every platform expands and builds on the market you already established.

So while the spec war is fun for us on the forums, Microsoft doesn't really care. Xbox Series X is just a "glimpse" into the next generation as they put it and they will have a number of different boxes in the next few years. They wisely calmed down the talk on Lockhart because they saw how the hardcore fanboys responded online and realized it best to just talk about the initial high end box as is tradition for a console generation. But Lockhard is definitely still ON and there will be other Xbox series released sooner than you think.

The convergence of the PC and console is nearly complete.

www.extremetech.com

Microsoft's Xbox Series X Just Ended the PC-Console War - ExtremeTech

The Xbox Series X is the end result of decades of PC-console convergence -- and the effective end of the PC-console war.
www.extremetech.com www.extremetech.com
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All very interesting, but several things lead me to thinking this won't work as well as some are hoping. The phone industry can get away with a crapload of different model variations because A: carriers basically act as subsidiaries for the phone via tying it to the consumer's subscription plan (very few phone owners outright BUY those $700/$1000 Galaxies and iPhones), and B: smartphones have essentially established themselves as a basic necessity in life for the vast majority of the population across the globe, and C: the vast majority of smartphone users are not graphics-thirsting gamers who expect big-spectacle visual presentation in their video games. Simple Bejeweled-style puzzlers do just fine for the vast majority of mobile gamers in terms of graphics.

MS has already mentioned some type of subsidization program but it won't be an industry-wide standard and is only applicable with a few chains. Other than blockbuster AAA games with high-tier graphics, there is fundamentally nothing consoles offer that smartphones can't offer in the eyes of the average person, and smartphones have the added advantage of phone calls, texting and portability on their side, at a price that appears (on the surface) to be cheaper than buying a brand new gaming console.

The idea of MS going with multiple mid-gen refreshes of varying power also presents another problem when appealing to hardcore and core gamers: it won't be the best of either worlds. One of those "worlds" is in terms of balls-out power spec, because if a user REALLY wants
the powerful gaming system they can get, then they can build an actual PC. On the other hand, the other "world" is AAA exclusives that squeeze out as much performance through optimization of a fixed hardware spec as possible.

Provided Sony is going with a singular spec PS5 (never minding revisions that change storage size space), then they will have the advantage in that area because MS's studios will have to design around their low-end (Lockhart) and simply rely on boosting up things like resolution and framerates with the higher-tier models. The issue there, though, is that system power can be used for things besides resolutions, framerate and graphics, so with MS's approach there's a potential worry that you won't get as advanced physics-intensive exclusives or AI learning algorithms on a scope of multi-"Series" systems vs. Sony working on a singular PS5.

So for all the advantages MS thinks this "Series" approach may have, it could potentially have some massive downsides as well.

....................

.........was Tommy verified?
 
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onQ123 said:
He didn't say if it was HBM it could be GDDR6 just placed on a Interposer & stacked on top of the APU
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We are getting very close to being in the realms of dreams here though. I mean 16GB (8 2GB chips) probably runs ~30W so putting that on top of a 1.8-2.0GHz/3.2GHz APU? Do you want the heating on love!? OK I'll boot up the PS5. :messenger_winking: I'm guessing even HBM might only be ~10W less for 16GB?
 
SlimySnake said:
Same reason why they went with 44 CUs for the x1x when the biggest Polaris was only 36 CUs.

RDNA sweet spot is not 1.7-1.9. It's 1.6 ghz according to the dozens of tests ran by demoncleaner when simulating gonzalo. Going from 1.6 to 2.0 ghz is only a 25% clockspeed increase that comes at the cost of a 75% increase in power. No one is designing their console around that. They only way you get those clocks is if they hit their base clocks and decided they had enough headroom to push it further.

its entirely possible that MS also goes from 1.475 to 1.6 or even higher in the lead up to launch but it will have to be within their tdp budget.
Click to expand...
Exact TDP "knee" in RDNA starts at 1700MHZ, so up until 1700MHZ its not really an option to go far below.

Other then that, I am sure 2nd gen RDNA chips in these consoles will be able to clock even further, therefore leaving alot of clocks on a table if someone goes extra wide.

Its no wonder Sony and MS clock their consoles extremely close. They now power sweet spot and they dont want extra big chips with lower clocks if its possible to go other way. It means yields will be bad, future revisons will be bigger then competiton and performance will scale worse then one with more clock per CU.

Its a bad deal.
 
Bryank75 said:
How far away is a die shrink / 5nm do people think? I don't really know how long these things take...
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Apple and the other phone chip people will probably start to get 5nm parts in 2020, year after for bigger chips like Zen

(dunno about Samsung)

TSMC 3nm is 2023 if nothing goes wrong.. (Samsung is promising earlier, but they haven't actually 7 nm yet afaik)

But we usually have 3 shrinks between generations, and 2nm isn't even on the radar yet
 
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