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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Neofire

Neofire

Member
onQ123 said:
By: Anthony Garreffa from Jan 25, 2019 @ 0:01 CST

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/64616/next-xbox-8c-16t-zen-2-cpu-navi-gpu-16gb-ram-499/index.html
www.tweaktown.com

Next Xbox X - 8C/16T Zen 2 CPU, Navi GPU, 16GB RAM for $499

Microsoft's next-gen Xbox: custom Zen 2 CPU and Navi GPU from AMD, 16GB GDDR6, ray tracing technology, and more.
www.tweaktown.com www.tweaktown.com







N6jU8wF.png


ynOTmAo.png
Click to expand...

By this "leak" the ps5 is going to be weak as the xbox(both versions) will be both comparable in power for one model and much stronger with other model? 🤣😂

Not only does this leak make no sense it would be game over for Sony if it were true. The edge on power and performance Phil talked about(going by this) is a steam roll for them. A 4 TF+ difference? Come on people.
 
Tqaulity

Tqaulity

Member
onQ123 said:
They might stay on the market for 10 years but they will get a upgraded model in like 3 or 4 years
Click to expand...
So here is something that nobody is really talking about at length. Microsoft has left several clues if you pay attention that this upcoming generation for Xbox will be fundamentally different than the previous 3 have been. Between the naming convention with "Series", the form factor, and the focus on forward and backward compatibility, I believe that the Xbox will truly become a gaming PC designed for the living room (i.e. Microsoft's version of what Stream box was supposed to be).

In particular, I believe it will adopt the PC hardware iterative model as well as the classic Iphone model. With model, don't be surprised if we not only see a mid-cycle upgrade, but rather see 2, 3, or more iterations on the hardware as the cycle goes on. And not only that, while I doubt it will be every year like the iphone, don't be surprised if in the traditional 5-7 console cycle, we see Xbox Series X, Series X v2., Seriex Xv3 etc. In fact, with this approach, the concept of a new "generation" will be no more.

Now this approach is fundamental difference than the traditional model of building a console to "last" for 5-7 years. With this model Microsoft can achieve the following:
  • By releasing new hardware every 2-3 years, they can guarantee that there is always a top end model matching high end PC for the enthusiast crowd
  • They can cover the entire price range with hardware for different audiences (from entry level to enthusiast)
  • They can remove the barriers associated with a new "generation" of consoles and the necessary "reset" for consumers and developers alike
  • They no longer need to worry about what Sony does with PS5, PS6 etc from a spec perspective as their next iteration will release soon afterward and one up it in terms of power anyway
  • They effectively establish Xbox as a hardware agnostic gaming platform (i.e. like PC) where you can play anything from the past or future whatever level hardware you will like
THIS is where Microsoft wants to go. It is the culmination of Phil's philosophy that the number of consoles you sell don't matter but rather the number of people playing games on your platform/services. Every console generation tops out ~100 Million units of sales and then the next resets back to 0 and struggles to match the previous. With this approach, MIcrosoft can look at the total number of people gaming on Xbox, Xbox360, Xbox One, Xbox Series, and PC as their metrics for success. THAT is true growth where every platform expands and builds on the market you already established.

So while the spec war is fun for us on the forums, Microsoft doesn't really care. Xbox Series X is just a "glimpse" into the next generation as they put it and they will have a number of different boxes in the next few years. They wisely calmed down the talk on Lockhart because they saw how the hardcore fanboys responded online and realized it best to just talk about the initial high end box as is tradition for a console generation. But Lockhard is definitely still ON and there will be other Xbox series released sooner than you think.

The convergence of the PC and console is nearly complete.

www.extremetech.com

Microsoft's Xbox Series X Just Ended the PC-Console War - ExtremeTech

The Xbox Series X is the end result of decades of PC-console convergence -- and the effective end of the PC-console war.
www.extremetech.com www.extremetech.com
 
CameFromNearFuture

CameFromNearFuture

Banned
DJ12 said:
He doesn't have insider knowledge, and doesn't claim to, he was verified for other reasons.
Click to expand...

Lol Wrong.

He might not say this openly and clear, but he sure as hell talk as If he's one with the whole "I have a friend who Works on Company x talk" with his bs talk about First party Sony games being ported to PC
 
D

DeltaPolarBear

Member
Tqaulity said:
So here is something that nobody is really talking about at length. Microsoft has left several clues if you pay attention that this upcoming generation for Xbox will be fundamentally different than the previous 3 have been. Between the naming convention with "Series", the form factor, and the focus on forward and backward compatibility, I believe that the Xbox will truly become a gaming PC designed for the living room (i.e. Microsoft's version of what Stream box was supposed to be).

In particular, I believe it will adopt the PC hardware iterative model as well as the classic Iphone model. With model, don't be surprised if we not only see a mid-cycle upgrade, but rather see 2, 3, or more iterations on the hardware as the cycle goes on. And not only that, while I doubt it will be every year like the iphone, don't be surprised if in the traditional 5-7 console cycle, we see Xbox Series X, Series X v2., Seriex Xv3 etc. In fact, with this approach, the concept of a new "generation" will be no more.

Now this approach is fundamental difference than the traditional model of building a console to "last" for 5-7 years. With this model Microsoft can achieve the following:
  • By releasing new hardware every 2-3 years, they can guarantee that there is always a top end model matching high end PC for the enthusiast crowd
  • They can cover the entire price range with hardware for different audiences (from entry level to enthusiast)
  • They can remove the barriers associated with a new "generation" of consoles and the necessary "reset" for consumers and developers alike
  • They no longer need to worry about what Sony does with PS5, PS6 etc from a spec perspective as their next iteration will release soon afterward and one up it in terms of power anyway
  • They effectively establish Xbox as a hardware agnostic gaming platform (i.e. like PC) where you can play anything from the past or future whatever level hardware you will like
THIS is where Microsoft wants to go. It is the culmination of Phil's philosophy that the number of consoles you sell don't matter but rather the number of people playing games on your platform/services. Every console generation tops out ~100 Million units of sales and then the next resets back to 0 and struggles to match the previous. With this approach, MIcrosoft can look at the total number of people gaming on Xbox, Xbox360, Xbox One, Xbox Series, and PC as their metrics for success. THAT is true growth where every platform expands and builds on the market you already established.

So while the spec war is fun for us on the forums, Microsoft doesn't really care. Xbox Series X is just a "glimpse" into the next generation as they put it and they will have a number of different boxes in the next few years. They wisely calmed down the talk on Lockhart because they saw how the hardcore fanboys responded online and realized it best to just talk about the initial high end box as is tradition for a console generation. But Lockhard is definitely still ON and there will be other Xbox series released sooner than you think.

The convergence of the PC and console is nearly complete.

www.extremetech.com

Microsoft's Xbox Series X Just Ended the PC-Console War - ExtremeTech

The Xbox Series X is the end result of decades of PC-console convergence -- and the effective end of the PC-console war.
www.extremetech.com www.extremetech.com
Click to expand...
Well, all I can say, is good luck to them.

Because what you are suggesting involves the complete abandoning of what a game console benefits from. A stable hardware base. And all for the false promise of being the "most powerful".

Sony will just keep making 1st party games that play to the strength of the hardware, just like what Nintendo is doing. Because consoles are not the point of console gaming; the games are. MS is taking a risk, just like they did with Always Online. I am looking forward to the hilarious results.
 
Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
Tqaulity said:
So here is something that nobody is really talking about at length. Microsoft has left several clues if you pay attention that this upcoming generation for Xbox will be fundamentally different than the previous 3 have been. Between the naming convention with "Series", the form factor, and the focus on forward and backward compatibility, I believe that the Xbox will truly become a gaming PC designed for the living room (i.e. Microsoft's version of what Stream box was supposed to be).

In particular, I believe it will adopt the PC hardware iterative model as well as the classic Iphone model. With model, don't be surprised if we not only see a mid-cycle upgrade, but rather see 2, 3, or more iterations on the hardware as the cycle goes on. And not only that, while I doubt it will be every year like the iphone, don't be surprised if in the traditional 5-7 console cycle, we see Xbox Series X, Series X v2., Seriex Xv3 etc. In fact, with this approach, the concept of a new "generation" will be no more.

Now this approach is fundamental difference than the traditional model of building a console to "last" for 5-7 years. With this model Microsoft can achieve the following:
  • By releasing new hardware every 2-3 years, they can guarantee that there is always a top end model matching high end PC for the enthusiast crowd
  • They can cover the entire price range with hardware for different audiences (from entry level to enthusiast)
  • They can remove the barriers associated with a new "generation" of consoles and the necessary "reset" for consumers and developers alike
  • They no longer need to worry about what Sony does with PS5, PS6 etc from a spec perspective as their next iteration will release soon afterward and one up it in terms of power anyway
  • They effectively establish Xbox as a hardware agnostic gaming platform (i.e. like PC) where you can play anything from the past or future whatever level hardware you will like
THIS is where Microsoft wants to go. It is the culmination of Phil's philosophy that the number of consoles you sell don't matter but rather the number of people playing games on your platform/services. Every console generation tops out ~100 Million units of sales and then the next resets back to 0 and struggles to match the previous. With this approach, MIcrosoft can look at the total number of people gaming on Xbox, Xbox360, Xbox One, Xbox Series, and PC as their metrics for success. THAT is true growth where every platform expands and builds on the market you already established.

So while the spec war is fun for us on the forums, Microsoft doesn't really care. Xbox Series X is just a "glimpse" into the next generation as they put it and they will have a number of different boxes in the next few years. They wisely calmed down the talk on Lockhart because they saw how the hardcore fanboys responded online and realized it best to just talk about the initial high end box as is tradition for a console generation. But Lockhard is definitely still ON and there will be other Xbox series released sooner than you think.

The convergence of the PC and console is nearly complete.

www.extremetech.com

Microsoft's Xbox Series X Just Ended the PC-Console War - ExtremeTech

The Xbox Series X is the end result of decades of PC-console convergence -- and the effective end of the PC-console war.
www.extremetech.com www.extremetech.com
Click to expand...

Consoles ending up being full blown upgradable pcs were always on the horizon.

As for ppl saying tht Microsofts view is tht the number of consoles you sell doesnt matter. Thts total bs and tht narrative only changed when thy started getting their ass handed to them. It's all fine and dandy tht "all" gaming companies care about the money spent in services regardless of platform and thy focus on maus but the bottom line is the more consoles you sell, the more maus and an entry way for ppl to get into your eco system. It may not be the only way but it is a major way so that line of thinking I always found funny.
 
Last edited:
CatLady

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Tqaulity said:
So here is something that nobody is really talking about at length. Microsoft has left several clues if you pay attention that this upcoming generation for Xbox will be fundamentally different than the previous 3 have been. Between the naming convention with "Series", the form factor, and the focus on forward and backward compatibility, I believe that the Xbox will truly become a gaming PC designed for the living room (i.e. Microsoft's version of what Stream box was supposed to be).

In particular, I believe it will adopt the PC hardware iterative model as well as the classic Iphone model. With model, don't be surprised if we not only see a mid-cycle upgrade, but rather see 2, 3, or more iterations on the hardware as the cycle goes on. And not only that, while I doubt it will be every year like the iphone, don't be surprised if in the traditional 5-7 console cycle, we see Xbox Series X, Series X v2., Seriex Xv3 etc. In fact, with this approach, the concept of a new "generation" will be no more.

Now this approach is fundamental difference than the traditional model of building a console to "last" for 5-7 years. With this model Microsoft can achieve the following:
  • By releasing new hardware every 2-3 years, they can guarantee that there is always a top end model matching high end PC for the enthusiast crowd
  • They can cover the entire price range with hardware for different audiences (from entry level to enthusiast)
  • They can remove the barriers associated with a new "generation" of consoles and the necessary "reset" for consumers and developers alike
  • They no longer need to worry about what Sony does with PS5, PS6 etc from a spec perspective as their next iteration will release soon afterward and one up it in terms of power anyway
  • They effectively establish Xbox as a hardware agnostic gaming platform (i.e. like PC) where you can play anything from the past or future whatever level hardware you will like
THIS is where Microsoft wants to go. It is the culmination of Phil's philosophy that the number of consoles you sell don't matter but rather the number of people playing games on your platform/services. Every console generation tops out ~100 Million units of sales and then the next resets back to 0 and struggles to match the previous. With this approach, MIcrosoft can look at the total number of people gaming on Xbox, Xbox360, Xbox One, Xbox Series, and PC as their metrics for success. THAT is true growth where every platform expands and builds on the market you already established.

So while the spec war is fun for us on the forums, Microsoft doesn't really care. Xbox Series X is just a "glimpse" into the next generation as they put it and they will have a number of different boxes in the next few years. They wisely calmed down the talk on Lockhart because they saw how the hardcore fanboys responded online and realized it best to just talk about the initial high end box as is tradition for a console generation. But Lockhard is definitely still ON and there will be other Xbox series released sooner than you think.

The convergence of the PC and console is nearly complete.

www.extremetech.com

Microsoft's Xbox Series X Just Ended the PC-Console War - ExtremeTech

The Xbox Series X is the end result of decades of PC-console convergence -- and the effective end of the PC-console war.
www.extremetech.com www.extremetech.com
Click to expand...

I think with Xbox emphasis on services and some things Phil has said in the past about the Xbox becoming upgradeable in the future, this a very possible maybe even likely scenario.

Back in 2016 Phil talking about making the Xbox upgradeable as opposed to generational

www.gamespot.com

Possible Xbox One Hardware Upgrade in the Pipeline, Says Phil Spencer

"You'll actually see us come out with new hardware capability during a generation."
www.gamespot.com www.gamespot.com
 
D

DeltaPolarBear

Member
Gamernyc78 said:
Consoles ending up being full blown upgradable pcs were always on the horizon.
Click to expand...
You certainly aren't implying console gamers are going to actually swap parts out, do you?

I play on PC, and even I don't bother with it. So I am not sure console gamers would be any more willing.
Or do you mean stacking hardware together? Like the infamous Sega 32X?
 
Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
DeltaPolarBear said:
You certainly aren't implying console gamers are going to actually swap parts out, do you?

I play on PC, and even I don't bother with it. So I am not sure console gamers would be any more willing.
Or do you mean stacking hardware together? Like the infamous Sega 32X?
Click to expand...

Some upgradable parts but not broad as what you can do on pc's.
 
K

ksdixon

Member
Tommy Fisher said:
You will (compared to Scarlett family's memory type). You have to wait until February 2020 for full PS5 reveal (They will show the box too, unlike PS4)
Click to expand...

Did the old rumor that the PSVR breakout processor box is instead being stuffed into PS5 itself for the PS5 BR headset ever pan out?
 
K

ksdixon

Member
This is all words to me. I don't know a reRam from a GPU. But the PS5 OS'S menu/PStore navigation isn't gonna get bogged-down and "stuck" in-between "page loads" is it?
 
K

ksdixon

Member
Is the "mini pc" form factor for the XB Series X confirmed to be the final form factor? Or are they playing, like with Surface devices where the keyboard or the screen pops off? We going to see the walls of the pc fall away in the future video, to see a console sitting inside itv
 
Tqaulity

Tqaulity

Member
DeltaPolarBear said:
Well, all I can say, is good luck to them.

Because what you are suggesting involves the complete abandoning of what a game console benefits from. A stable hardware base. And all for the false promise of being the "most powerful".

Sony will just keep making 1st party games that play to the strength of the hardware, just like what Nintendo is doing. Because consoles are not the point of console gaming; the games are. MS is taking a risk, just like they did with Always Online. I am looking forward to the hilarious results.
Click to expand...
Yep i agree with you. Console generations and the idea of a fixed box to maximum your games on for years will be gone with this model. But from their point of view, it does make sense. They've been at this for 3 generations now and they have consistently failed to do the following:
  1. Consistently grow their console business (Xbox - X360 grew but then the transition to Xbox One regressed)
  2. Beat Sony in total global sales to claim the #1 console title (yes, PS3 still outsold the X360 globally)
From that perspective, the console market as it was just isn't good business. And again we're talking about a company who own Windows which is a thriving platform for PC gaming. It only makes sense for them to want to converge those businesses as much as possible.
 
N

Negotiator

Member
ANIMAL1975 said:
I remember that one, and someones analysis of the picture, saying that Sony could have gone with 3d stack chips, for the saving in the dye size, i saved the link for further reading
About 3D ICs
Click to expand...
Stacking high power (in terms of TDP) chips doesn't make much sense to me. Mobile SoCs already do this with LPDDR, but these are low power ones.

Regarding HBM, I just can't see how they could possibly establish economies of scale with that.

GDDR6 will be with us for the next decade (that's how long GDDR5 lasted). PC GPUs will keep using it for a long time.

HBM is expensive/exotic tech reserved for business customers (HPC/cloud/AI). Even AMD abandoned it for gaming GPUs (Navi series).

I wouldn't mind being proven wrong (maybe with HBM3/organic interposer? HBM2 with silicon interposer is not very likely), but to me it seems like an extremely risky proposition. Almost as risky as Cell/Blu-Ray back in 2005.

With GDDR6 they can have huge economies of scale, including a potential PS4 Super Slim SKU. 4 * GDDR6 chips (2GB each) in a redesigned 7nm APU with a 128-bit bus. They can order huge amounts of GDDR6 chips for both the PS4 and the PS5, which means lower prices and who knows if this could allow them to afford 32GB on PS5... 24GB is the bare minimum I expect with GDDR6, HBM2 could drop this down to 16GB and it ain't gonna be cheap.
 
Racer!

Racer!

Member
Tqaulity said:
Yep i agree with you. Console generations and the idea of a fixed box to maximum your games on for years will be gone with this model. But from their point of view, it does make sense. They've been at this for 3 generations now and they have consistently failed to do the following:
  1. Consistently grow their console business (Xbox - X360 grew but then the transition to Xbox One regressed)
  2. Beat Sony in total global sales to claim the #1 console title (yes, PS3 still outsold the X360 globally)
From that perspective, the console market as it was just isn't good business. And again we're talking about a company who own Windows which is a thriving platform for PC gaming. It only makes sense for them to want to converge those businesses as much as possible.
Click to expand...

What Sony is doing now, is raising the baseline to "top of the line" (13-14TF with advanced tech like VRS and RT), faster than anything out there storage. (SSD) It makes perfect sense to distinguish themselves from and as far above current high end PC`s as they can. Microsoft will have to drag their feet to accomodate 4TF`s machines (PC and console) with slow and old storage tech. This is why I think they also MAY do something "exotic" with RAM, HBM2/3 for example. Raising RAM bandwith baseline to 1TB/s, with an APU/games built to take advantage of that, would "lure" even more players into their ecosystem. If they introduce a 25TF @3nm PS5 Pro 3 years down the line, and makes original PS5 a 1080/1440 machine, Microsoft will have issues.

Microsoft and Sony will be pulling in different directions come next gen. Sony has no other choice really. If they were to play Microsofts game, they would sure loose (platformwise). Microsofts presence in the PC space is just too strong.
 
Last edited:
Fake

Fake

Gold Member
Insane Metal said:
Click to expand...

Well, can't say if is true or not, but as the second wired article mention, Dualshock 5 is indeed very close to the Dualshock 4, a little heavy, but the one mistery will be the big hole infront the controller with must be an upgraded version of touchpad.
 
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