Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yeah it’s not huge. But definitely a step beyond previous consoles.
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Yeah it’s not huge. But definitely a step beyond previous consoles.
Fake
Gold Member
Make me wonder about the noise level.
pawel86ck
Banned
The problem is we dont know what's needed to cool 12TF next gen navi, we can only speculate in regards to first gen navi.
Fake
Gold Member
Its huge in comparison with others consoles imo. And those dumb IGN guys make comparison using a cardbox don't help either.
We need the real thing.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
It's not confirmed by DF. They are assuming it is TF 12 Navi because Phil Spencer said GPU performance is 2x of X1X. Richard also said they asked MS is GPU in XSX 12 TF Navi, but didn't get any confirmation on that.
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CameFromNearFuture
Banned
I had to fall into this drama because I need to pretend I am clueless about ps5 Power lmao
Things Will be good in february
Things Will be good in february
THE:MILKMAN
Member
It is mostly just a different shape. They've taken out the 'depth' and put it into the 'height'. It is clearly designed to stand upright. It looks horrible horizontally.
Well yes but Phil is already on record saying it is no louder than One X. My mates Gears 5 One X is very impressively quiet for sure and I've have now parted ways with my Pro mostly because the noise. I really hope Sony up their game with PS5.
Yes but I doubt much more than a ~15% difference power/TDP in a best case scenario? In any case DF said they expect, at the rumoured specs, for XSX to push beyond 300W at the wall. This is inline with a ultra high-end test PC running a 2080Ti or Radeon VII. This is nuts in such a tiny case.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yes I think it looks silly horizontal too, It’s clearly designed to be stood vertical as the default. And the overall shape is not going to be ideal for many people’s setups.
Maximum BW Oberon A0 from fucking May
PCB leak from May 21
May I remind you PCB leak is now 3/3.
256bit bus (Oberon AND Flute)
BW matching
Die size - 316mm² (pretty much 40CUs + Zen2 with some cache stripped)
PCB was leaked by guy who day after deleted his account but his avatar (piece od motherboard) and TOD of posting indicated someone from Asia. I always assumed these were "faster" dev kits Cerny mentioned and he wokred at TSMC.
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bumleforce
Member
While I believe Sony has one console what if they have 2 and the weak one is 9.2 and there is a pro we don't know about? You would think they would hae responded to those rumors as they have been getting beat up about it online.
9.2TF at 2.0GHZ is seriously pushing things above and beyond expected, and is way, way too much for entry level console.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
You can tell us, CFNF!
It is going to have 2 36 active CU GPUs in a butterfly wing arrangement and these GitHub tests are only using one of these 'wings' which also contain the BC modes (the other 'wing' is pure PS5)./jk
policestationx
Banned
12 hours shift should've been over by now.
pawel86ck
Banned
Rumors suggest RDNA2 architecture will be even more power efficient than RDNA1, and if we add to that improved 7nm+ node we can expect some bigger gains.
XSX will probably end up within 240-250 W range (and 350 W power supply) . Stock 2080ti consume 266 W according to guru3d test, and that's without other components, so it's still not like XSX power consumption will match high end PC setup.
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TLZ
Banned
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I'm basing it on the below Anandtech tests and Richard Leadbetter's expectation of XSX being >300W usage. He might be wrong but we'll see.
The 5700XT is alarmingly high (relatively) here. Even with efficiency gains and 7nm+ it would still be worrying.
TLZ
Banned
Can you post it mate?
Agnostic2020
Member
From the other place :
hmgqq said Dante GPU frequency is the same as retail Anaconda's if i remember well.... 1450Mhz.
So 56CU at 1450Mhz gives you 10.4TF.... uh oh.
10.4TF is also 8x xbox one gpu , which in turn would perform at least as fast as 2x X1X.(exactly what Phil said )
hmgqq said Dante GPU frequency is the same as retail Anaconda's if i remember well.... 1450Mhz.
So 56CU at 1450Mhz gives you 10.4TF.... uh oh.
10.4TF is also 8x xbox one gpu , which in turn would perform at least as fast as 2x X1X.(exactly what Phil said )
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Amm he was referrencing 64CU leak.
1450 x 64 x 64 x 2 - 11.9TF
Its a match per TF, but not in freq and CU count. 1.4GHZ is way, way below Navi sweetspot and they would be leaving ALOT on the table.
Its will be 1.7x56CU - 12.1TF
WGPs dont work in 64. Thats why big Navi will be 80CU unit and Arden will be 60 with 4 deactivated (3xWGP, 2xWGP in PS5 case).
xool
Member
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Agnostic2020
Member
My question is if Sony is using rdna 1 and 5700xt variant why did they wait till 2020? All of those have been out for half a year already? Something is not clicking yet for me. Benefit of launching a year in advance and getting a head start on next gen was so huge if they didn’t want to wait for 2020 tech .
Sony is not using RDNA. Both them and MS used RDNA building block, as it was only thing existing in 2017. RDNA2 will have some additional instructions, RT and VRS but nothing says this cannot be added to existing chip Sony and MS started to design 3 years ago.
Btw Oberon A0 max achiavable BW is 531GB/s.
Go check Flute benchmark. Max BW? 530GB/s
Flute was Oberon bench. Oberon is PS5.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
But that's GCN flops. That's why he asked MS is XSX 12 TF GCN or Navi. He didn't get the answer. Hmqqq was right regarding Xbox though.
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BattleScar
Member
How do you know this? How can you say anything with this degree of certainty? If the XSX is anything like the XB1X then it quite easily could be 1450MHz. Of course Microsoft could raise clockspeeds. But none of us can know this for sure.
???
Why can't work group processors work with 64CU? A work group processor is quite literally just 2 CU's. There is no reason AMD can't have 32WGPs. If it's a 4 shader array system like Navi 10, then it's 8WGPs per shader array.
Do you know something about Navi that the rest of us don't?
If Microsoft are using a 32WGP (64CU) in a 4*8 shader array configuration. They could disable one WGP per shader array and end up with 28WGPs for a total of 56CU. Wow, magic!!!! The numbers add up!!!!
The great thing about this is that with 4 shader arrays with 7 active WGPs would still leave the same number of render backends, leaving 64 ROPs as one would expect.
Another beautiful thing about this is that if they have their own BC mode (which according to Arden, they may very well do) then they can switch off 3 of the 4 shader arrays. This would leave 7 active WGPs (14CU) and 16 active ROPs, which matches up with the OG Xbox One.
Of course they could have gone with your suggestion of 30WGPs in a 6*5 shader array configuration (i.e 1.5*Navi 10). In order to have 56 CU, they would need to disable 2 WGPs. So they'd have 4 shader arrays with 5WGPs active and 2 with 4 active.
But that would as elegantly match up with Arden as a shader array with 16 ROPs would have at most 5WGPs and at worst 4. Inelegant.
There we go, your speculation Vs mine.
Because I know.
Because you need to read Navi white papers. Not that you cant, but its not a good design decision.
Really tired of replying so I will not do it anymore. Leaked doc contains number of CUs in Arden as well as Oberon. Its not 64, thats for sure.
saintjules
Gold Member
Fresh off the press:
BattleScar
Member
The white papers show 3584 stream processors afaik. Which is 56CU or 28WGP.
"Because I know" is not a good enough answer.
And I have read Navi's whitepapers. I know for certain that a "Work Group Processor" is a cluster of 2 compute units that have a shared L1 cache. The purpose for this as far as I can remember is to maintain compatibility with GCN. This is because RDNA executes waves in 2 cycles whereas GCN executes waves in 4 cycles.
Saying that it's a bad design decision to have 32WGPs is all well and good. But why?
Agnostic2020
Member
That’s better at least for 9.2 tf with 530 gb /s it won’t be bandwidth starved like the pro. But this doesn’t sound like a 399 console imo just cause it has 29% less gpu power . What gives ?Sony is not using RDNA. Both them and MS used RDNA building block, as it was only thing existing in 2017. RDNA2 will have some additional instructions, RT and VRS but nothing says this cannot be added to existing chip Sony and MS started to design 3 years ago.
Btw Oberon A0 max achiavable BW is 531GB/s.
Go check Flute benchmark. Max BW? 530GB/s
Flute was Oberon bench. Oberon is PS5.
bye thanks for replies I do enjoy them
edit: btw do you know why Phil refuses to clarify the 12 Navi TF ?
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MaulerX
Member
Richard:
"However, our information is that the GPU is indeed 12TF and what are almost certainly well-sourced leaks from Windows Central back this up."
They've got their own information and it's not based on an "assumption". But do carry on.
Agnostic2020
Member
DF literally made a video last week saying they highly doubt its 12 Navi tf. LolRichard:
"However, our information is that the GPU is indeed 12TF and what are almost certainly well-sourced leaks from Windows Central back this up."
They've got their own information and it's not based on an "assumption". But do carry on.
MaulerX
Member
???
That quote came directly from the Digital Foundry video. You guys are clearly in panic mode it seems. It is what it is. Tip your hat and move on. Your box will have amazing looking games on it. That's guaranteed.
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Dont take it personally, but I it is a good answer. I have been posting here, strictly on info we know, since April.
Duo to me calling PS5 36CU 256bit 9.2TF console I have been called an idiot. Kinda can take a small rest since info we got now is extremely detailed and make no mistake, points to exactly that. This is info anyone can see, as well as you, and there is more to it then just PS5 info and it points to XSX NOT having 64CUs.
Agnostic2020
Member
He is saying based on windows central it’s 12 however when they asked Phil for clarification he didn’t answer it .
here is where they say they highly doubt it’s 12 Navi tf . 7 days ago :
Its 12TF Navi. Chip has more CUs and lower clocks then PS5.
Because you will not get any confirmation on that until console specs are announced officially. Kinda expecting Sony to confirm 8GB in December of 2012 when it leaked out.Richard:
"However, our information is that the GPU is indeed 12TF and what are almost certainly well-sourced leaks from Windows Central back this up."
They've got their own information and it's not based on an "assumption". But do carry on.
TeamGhobad
Banned
if phil negates on 12 teraflops it will be a shitstorm. although he never said it the news outlets did and he will be blamed for it.
any benefits of having more CU's than clock?
any benefits of having more CU's than clock?
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nowhat
Member
Welp, that was a content-free video if there ever was one. The main takeaway for me was "expect 16GB of RAM, but that's OK" and "Hellblade 2 may have been an 'in-engine' CGI trailer, but that's the kind of fidelity you should expect, just because (ignore the resolution and framerate)".
Agnostic2020
Member
Oh yeah I m sure it’s Navi but I was telling him MS hasn’t confirmed that
Agnostic2020
Member
That I agree with . That’s why I m sure it’s Navi otherwise they would correct windows central . Just Phil refusing to confirm it is abit odd
They wont confirm obviously. Nothing about XSX is confimed (or PS5). Asking Phil about memory specifics (BW and amount) would also yield similar response.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Richard:
"However, our information is that the GPU is indeed 12TF and what are almost certainly well-sourced leaks from Windows Central back this up."
They've got their own information and it's not based on an "assumption". But do carry on.
Few seconds later :
Carry on, Xbone fan! Thanks! Btw. at 6.30 Richard said the firm declined to comment on exact figure. So, later after your comment he said assume. So, he didn't confirmed it.
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BattleScar
Member
I never said that it did have 64. I merely suggested that it has 56 active compute units out of a total of 64. 8 being disabled for redundancy.
Because it's a relatively easy and symmetric way to disable active CUs.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Richard didn't said it is. He asked MS for exact figure, they didn't comment it because Phil Spencer said XSX is 2X in TF compared to X1X. That means 12 TFLOPS is GCN which is around 9.3 TF Navi
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McHuj
Member
why are you linking to an ancient reaction video when they have put up an article and newer video saying that they have information that the GPU is 12 TF despite MS refusing to confirm it.
Agnostic2020
Member
Again In that video that u r referring to they said “let’s assume it’s 12 Navi TF” based on windows central . They did not get any confirmation themselves as the week before they said it’s not 12 Navi TF.
All this are semantics . Xsx will be 12 Navi TF but MS till now has refused to comment on the teraflop . Just 8 times gpu of x1 and twice performance of gpu of x1x
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
There is no point in arguing over something until we get official confirmation it clutters these threads with useless posts.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Why this older video when you have a new one ( 2 days ago ) and same crap he said : he didn't cornfimed it's 12 TF Navi or firm declined to comment on exact figure
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
The most reliable insider said that there's too many variables to know which is more powerful, hinting at the consoles being close in power
It sounds like PS5 might have faster input and output transfer speeds from its SSD
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