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XcloudTimdog
Banned
I rememberXcloudTimdog and I spoke to Penello for a long time at E3 a couple of years ago when he was still with MS; so he knows what he's talking about.
XcloudTimdog
Banned
Man i can see its all started to set in for some members. 
XcloudTimdog
Banned
Even DF sources say its navi 12 So - s
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
It was never confirmed.
12TF comes from people who say they have spoke to their sources.
Sources have stated that both are the same in other or one being more powerful than the other (more powerful or slightly).
bitbydeath
Member
Navi 12 would be correct if this chart is anything to go by since it mentions the 5800 i'm expecting them to be based off.
Rightisright
Banned
Thats like saying if Xbox S X ends up with 12 flops RDNA then people like you should be banned for agitating by saying it was GCN flops. It's silly.
People have opinions about what specs the consoles will have. We have no power over what GPUs either Sony or MS will put on their consoles.
Its fun to speculate, but don't link it to who you are.
It will be what it is.
My personal opinion is that I think MS will have the most powerful console. I think they have to if they want to improve this gen over Sony. I dont think Sony needs to have that crown.
I think the Xbox will be 12 tflops of RDNA, like most leaks have been.
I dont know what PS5 will be. I think it will have Ray tracing on the GPU and I expect it to be within 10% of the Xbox.
But if it turns out the other way around, oh well.
XcloudTimdog
Banned
My source, very good one, navi10, 12 tflop. Navi12 wont be in either X or Ps im told. I was also told we will learn more about this so maybe x could be navi12? Doubt but interesting piece thereNavi 12 would be correct if this chart is anything to go by since it mentions the 5800 i'm expecting them to be based off.
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bitbydeath
Member
Navi10 doesn't support Ray-Tracing.
12 and 21 do and 21 is expected to be even more extreme than 12.
Luckily CES is just over a week away so that should provide us with an idea of what to expect out of these new GPU's.
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iamvin22
Industry Verified
CameFromNearFuture
Banned
Sorry, but that doesnt amply to me tho since I always supported that to be true and wanted It to be true. I want both to be as powerfull as they can be at 499 dollars Max price
As anyone has preference and that IS Fine, If one of the two would have tô have the Edge, I want It to be ps5, but not at the level of Xbox one vs PS4 as this is not Very good for the industry.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Stupid question which I'm sure someone has answered before, but if there's Navi 10, 12, 14, why would Navi 10 be the mid range?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
No, Nikkei Electronics Wire said it:
A blast from the past! "Toy Story Graphics," the true source.
I was curious as to where "Toy Story Graphics" began, and came across this gem... PlayStation 2 Cometh After all the talk and speculation about the future of Sony's next console, Sony may be getting ready to unleash a gaming tsunami of epic proportions tomorrow when the company is...www.neogaf.com
Bill Gates himself said it too.
Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
The OQA PCB leak, if true, was a dev kit and so the retail config would basically have a Toshiba XG6 1TB, but with gratuitous Samsung DRAM instead of Nanya. Soldered.
Gates Gives An Electric Intro
LAS VEGAS, Nevada — The 2001 Consumer Electronics Show (CES) kicked off with the formal introduction of the Microsoft Xbox gaming console by none other than chairman Bill Gates himself. Gates offered very little new details on the console beyond the outside design of the unit. Microsoft went...
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Rightisright
Banned
So a question to anyone who knows about how this stuff works.
Say that the PS5 GPU is in fact 36 cu and is rated at 9.2 tflops.
If they were then to add Ray tracing acceleration to the GPU, would this addition increase the compute power of the GPU? Or would it have to be powered by the 9.2 tflops?
Say that the PS5 GPU is in fact 36 cu and is rated at 9.2 tflops.
If they were then to add Ray tracing acceleration to the GPU, would this addition increase the compute power of the GPU? Or would it have to be powered by the 9.2 tflops?
demigod
Member
Because AMD can't count.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
This post screams fanboyism.
DF gave us information how it could be the case, but you and your friends ignore it.
If you guys want to have a rational discussion, then understand people are discussing rumors.
So if you want to go by your word and it is in fact based off of GCN number, then you should be banned for jumping on forum members who suggest that may in fact be the case.
Deal?
megreotsugua
Banned
Some people want a 13+TF PS5 because they want Sony first party studios ran wild with it, not because they want the most powerful machine on the planet. You have PC for that. But if it's 9TF, then it's ok too. Still plenty of power for GoW, HZD, and Spidey.
If XSX ends up being more powerful, then hats off to MS. I hope you get more fun out of it. I hope MS release a good game though, because I might end up buying them on my PC.
Nobody knows yet though.
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XcloudTimdog
Banned
ITS RDNA 12 tflops Again confirmed explicitly to me.
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D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
To be perfectly honest, while my plan is to own both consoles day one with PlayStation 5 being my primary console and Xbox 4 being my secondary console (and Switch Pro being my tertiary console), if the power, specs and capabilities are far better on Xbox 4 than PlayStation 5, then Xbox 4 will become my primary console while PlayStation 5 will be secondary. If the difference is minimal (X vs Pro), then I'll stay with PlayStation 5 as my primary.
megreotsugua
Banned
Don't worry. Cerny got you.
I think Sony knows that hardcore fans want power. And they are big time spenders on PSN. If there will be differences in power between the console it will be minimal. No loading times and accessibility will be a major advertising point next-gen said Jason Schreir. I feel the same.
Lay off the personal attacks and FFS everyone in here trolling and console warring, knock it off.
I have had to repeat myself more in the past week or two than any other time before that.
If anyone wants to volunteer for a thread or site ban, it would save me the trouble of checking back in a page or two since that's the confidence level I have about this thread right now.
Dargor
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
One excuse would be the ultimate power with a PC, if power is someone's "thing".
I wish warnings were enough, but they'll just wait till you turn your back
Then going forward they can turn it into some time away.
XcloudTimdog
Banned
We got a long way, as far as im concerned i see wait till this and we will get answers. I dont think we might even get tflop answer till the very end. We will get the new features talked about
Oh really? Let me see the receipts, or stop speaking from a place of an "insider" on here.
This Wild West attitude from some people the past couple of days stops now.
XcloudTimdog
Banned
Fine you give word that it wont leave us?
XcloudTimdog
Banned
Sent email.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Getting spicy in here!
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I can see this happening with the architecture efficiency messing with the overall TF count compared to GCN. Not to mention the SSD I/O features and the like are a much bigger deal/game changer for both boxes and gaming as a whole from consoles to PC, personally.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
XcloudTimdog sent Mod verification emails?
Maybe this guy is legit after all.
Maybe this guy is legit after all.
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Racer!
Member
Depends on implementation. AMD will present RDNA 2.0 at CES.
They have some patents on this. A "hybrid" solution where hw ray tracing is "baked" into the cu`s. In that case those tflops/compute would "include" ray tracing.
However, the kind of operations you need to do with ray tracing/pathtracing (calculate ray intersections and bounding volume hierarchy`s (BVH)) and denoising, differ somewhat from typical rasterization in type (integer/float) and precision (single/double precision float etc).
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Here's a question.
So PS5 and SeX have super fast SSD drives. Sounds great. And they'll probably be 1 tb.
So let's say you got another 2 tb of games on an external HDD hooked up to the console via a USB cable.
What happens to loading times for those games installed on the external drive?
So PS5 and SeX have super fast SSD drives. Sounds great. And they'll probably be 1 tb.
So let's say you got another 2 tb of games on an external HDD hooked up to the console via a USB cable.
What happens to loading times for those games installed on the external drive?
XcloudTimdog
Banned
Willing to turn a new leaf and be respectful in here and have friendly discussions. Sorry if i was a bit much over last few days but i had a nice convo with Mod
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Wonder if they'll go to the vector unit route or would that not work out on modern GPUs?
We know rays perform very well on vector units, and any super high fill rate/multi pass instruction, and they love high bandwidth/ghz.
Could explain the rumored high clocks for the boxes.
I must be remembering wrong I thought it was some half baked solution that was with the TMUs mostly. The hybrid software part would be compute using CUs or something like that.
Racer!
Member
They could. Its a matter of getting the most out of every transistor for most developers though.
XcloudTimdog
Banned
This man asking the right questions. If what im Understand, ppl arent gonna be happy about this, is all that stuff the advantages they talked about, pause resume 2 games , etc, those features are strictly within the internal ssd pool. Thats my understanding. Take with a grain of salt tho
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Racer!
Member
You do not remember wrong.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yeah, we discussed this in the past in here and some theories are that they will either load into the SSD as you play to take full advantage (like transferring it over first), or you can still play on the USB drive, just don't expect all the features (and old load times), for obvious reasons.
XcloudTimdog
Banned
Yeah makes sense. Ppl i talked to at e3 told me there is little stuff they have trepidation about. Like durability of ssd in general. I guess no swapping this memory and i have heard ssd by nature doesnt have the longest hw life. I also heard tho that has changed recently. I guess getting extended warranty might be something to look @
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Endurance was a concern, but one thing to keep in mind, well several, they are improving big time on that, and playing of the games doesn't write to the drive so it will have no impact on the overall endurance.
Swapping games in and out and patches is where the writes will be, but again, iMac and MacBooks as well as all other high end computers are ditching mechanical for SSDs, and they do far more rewrites on the daily.
I don't think it'll be an issue for your average gamer in that regards.
Edit:
Example, I believe a 1TB 860 Evo has 600TBW endurance. That means you will have to do a full 600 terabytes of writes before the drive says "no more".
That would be uninstalling and reinstalling RDR2 almost 6,000 times. I think we will be fine in that regards.
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MaulerX
Member
This is just my opinion here based on what I'm seeing but...
Ever since Dealer (via video) and Windows Central (article) dropped the 12TF Scarlett number (now officially Xbox Series X) close to a month ago, and recently Digital Foundry hearing the same 12TF number from their own sources... The news around the internet and YouTube is about how powerful the Series X is. All the while the silence from Sony is deafening. Deafening to the point that you start wondering, why would they let this news go on if it weren't true? Why not let loose a controlled leak to try and combat it? Nothing.
And as days and weeks have gone by, we get news like what we got from the data miner. Pretty much cementing the narrative that was formed. And again, not a peep from Sony. All the while Phil Spencer is running around with confidence telling everyone they believe to have the power crown again.
Just my opinion but it's starting to become somewhat obvious at this point.
Ever since Dealer (via video) and Windows Central (article) dropped the 12TF Scarlett number (now officially Xbox Series X) close to a month ago, and recently Digital Foundry hearing the same 12TF number from their own sources... The news around the internet and YouTube is about how powerful the Series X is. All the while the silence from Sony is deafening. Deafening to the point that you start wondering, why would they let this news go on if it weren't true? Why not let loose a controlled leak to try and combat it? Nothing.
And as days and weeks have gone by, we get news like what we got from the data miner. Pretty much cementing the narrative that was formed. And again, not a peep from Sony. All the while Phil Spencer is running around with confidence telling everyone they believe to have the power crown again.
Just my opinion but it's starting to become somewhat obvious at this point.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
I have another question, while we're at it. It's no coincidence that MS is shifting away from 'traditional' console design with the XSX, because they need room inside the thing to cool the 12TF beast properly. They've already proven with the X that they are very competent when it comes to this (cooling efficiently, that is). How are some people then exspecting the PS5 to be both a) smaller in size and b) more powerful or even at the same performance level at the same time? Isn't that physically impossible? Now, what do people think is more probable: Sony releasing a traditional box, or Sony releasing a huge hulking PC-like tower like MS is doing with the XSX?
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Don't worry. Cerny got you.
I think Sony knows that hardcore fans want power. And they are big time spenders on PSN. If there will be differences in power between the console it will be minimal. No loading times and accessibility will be a major advertising point next-gen said Jason Schreir. I feel the same.
I'm expecting the power difference to be 52%-48% in favor of Xbox 4. In other words, minimal. Now, if it happens to be a big difference which will be based on if/when Sony reveals the actual/final specs or if they give a quick rundown without going into detail and just say $400. If PS5 is $400, then I know that the console is much weaker because I don't see Sony taking a loss and if they do, it will be minimal.
When you say "internal SSD", you mean like Xbox One where it can't be accessed and removed/replaced? An internal SSD is obviously confirmed but I know that many gamers will most likely replace it with a bigger/faster SSD. For my PS4 Pro, I removed the 1TB HDD and replaced it with the Samsung EVO 850 1TB SSD. So again, will accessing and removing/replacing the SSD be possible? Thanks.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The XSX is actually not as big as it looks. It's just the width and height are the same 6" so it seems that way. The length is only 12", which is no longer than a PS3 Super Slim, and that thing is small.
The PS5 will probably be shaped differently, but have a similar overall mass.
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Armorian
Banned
We really don't know how it will work. My guess is that consoles will have both SSD (soldered to MB, ~500GB) and HDD, console will keep recently played games on SSD and manage the space when needed (delete/copy etc.).
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
That would be my suspicion as well. But it would mean that Sony departs from traditionally sized boxes. Yes, the XSX isn't as big as it might seem at first glance (its significantly smaller than a mini-ITX build), but it's still a LOT bigger (cubic centimeters) than a PS4, a Dreamcast or an N64.
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megreotsugua
Banned
Hang on tight guys.
PS5 and PS5 Pro is real I feel.
PS5 and PS5 Pro is real I feel.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yeah, I wonder how the cooling solution/patent will play into the design, and if it will mirror the setup in the V devkit, at least internally.
Now that MS showed Scarlet, it's making everyone more eager for Sony's form factor reveal.
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