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[TheTechnician]

I hope cerny will reveal at some Point wich one of the users here is his Account lol

 

[longdi]

If we add in the CPU components which at ~3.2GHz will likely consume about 50W then we get something like this:
.

No way. I bet you 2020 zen2 at 3.2ghz will need no more than 30w

I hope Sony target 280-300w total tdp.

My 1080ti runs 300w, a good heat sink is enough to chill it. Wasnt ps4 tdp 310w official?

Also without a hdd, there is more internal space this coming gen.

 

[Rightisright]

Someone has used the USB port on the ps5 dev kit to do measurements. U don’t need to worry urself with that

Lol. The smaller the reference the larger the error. A slot is 12 cms, pretty easy to work it out from there. I think you do need to worry yourself with that.

 

[Reindeer]

The starwars RT demo was pretty pretty. When i watched TROS, there was a scene which reminds me of that demo.

Iirc it ran like 15fps on my 1080ti. The next 3080ti should run it comfortably at 4k30 at least.

RT is real deal.
I have a feeling Mark Sony will add as much RT hardware as possible to the V.

Actually 2080TI already runs it at 4K30 and almost 60fps at 1440p

 

[BattleScar]

No way it's 3 controllers wide. Maybe 2 at best.
Use the disc slot to work out the width. A slot is 12 cms wide. So by my calculations the kit is 35.5cms wide.
10cm at it's highest and 5cms at its shortest. And about 24cms deep.
So if we allow for an average height of 8cms (due to the v cut out)
So volume is 35.5 x 8 x 24 = 6.816cm2
XSX is 31 x 16 x 16 =8,000cm2.

So not that big after all.

It actually looks pretty squarish to me. It's more likely to be as deep as it is wide. Besides that v cut out is still useful for air flow even.
By my calculations if it were a simple box it's be 36*36*10=12960cm3. The slice of pizza looks like it's 30cm deep, 12wide and 5 high. So it's volume is 0.5*12*30*5=900cm3
This nets a total volume of 12060cm3.
Still bigger than the XSX

 

[psorcerer]

Actually 2080TI already runs it at 4K30 and almost 60fps at 1440p

There's nothing here that cannot be done without RT. I doubt that too much of a random memory access was used. Very small scene. The soldier that comes at us doesn't change the lightning on approach or after it disappears from the culled FOV.
Overall too much cheap reflections to make sure it stands out. Unless you want to play the whole game within glass and plastic corridors - infeasible.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Well PS4’s devkit was also huge. Yet PS4 base is considered by many to be disappointing.

Actually the PS4 dev kit was/is petite IMO. Although from my estimate based on the one PS5 dev kit picture it no doubt is a beast relative to the PS4 dev kit but still not compared to other regular products.

PS4 dev kit = 9.82L (370mm W X 225mm D X 118mm H)
XSX retail case (high est) = 7.68L (est 160mm W X 160mm D X 300mm H)
PS5 dev kit (my high est) = 17.5L (my high est 400mm W X 325mm D X 135mm H)
Marantz CD5005 CD Player =15.6L (440mm W X 338mm D X 105mm H)

 

[Reindeer]

There's nothing here that cannot be done without RT. I doubt that too much of a random memory access was used. Very small scene. The soldier that comes at us doesn't change the lightning on approach or after it disappears from the culled FOV.
Overall too much cheap reflections to make sure it stands out. Unless you want to play the whole game within glass and plastic corridors - infeasible.

I'm not interested in that argument, my post was about 2080TI running that in 4K30,

 

[Rightisright]

It actually looks pretty squarish to me. It's more likely to be as deep as it is wide. Besides that v cut out is still useful for air flow even.
By my calculations if it were a simple box it's be 36*36*10=12960cm3. The slice of pizza looks like it's 30cm deep, 12wide and 5 high. So it's volume is 0.5*12*30*5=900cm3
This nets a total volume of 12060cm3.
Still bigger than the XSX

At best it is two controllers deep, and controllers are 16cms. I say smaller than two, but if you are giving it the benefit of the doubt then say two.
So 35.5 x 8 x 32 = 9,088cm2.
I am being generous with the average of 8 for height as well.
Its just not as big as people are going on about, and as its a dev kit, size isnt something they care about, unlike retail. More plastic = more cost. More volume = greater shipping.
People clinging to the size of the dev kit as an indication of power are kidding themselves.

 

[SgtCaffran]

At best it is two controllers deep, and controllers are 16cms. I say smaller than two, but if you are giving it the benefit of the doubt then say two.
So 35.5 x 8 x 32 = 9,088cm2.
I am being generous with the average of 8 for height as well.
Its just not as big as people are going on about, and as its a dev kit, size isnt something they care about, unlike retail. More plastic = more cost. More volume = greater shipping.
People clinging to the size of the dev kit as an indication of power are kidding themselves.

I think the perspective is playing tricks on you. Especially the controller sitting on top. If you look at the second controller on the table you see what I mean, it looks way smaller than the first controllers and shows the perspective. 8 cm for the height is too small.

 

[Elysiumcore]

Pretty great analysis on AMD chip manufacturing as well as some info on the Ps5 SOC. Can't wait till we all get final specs Console part at 18:15

 

[pawel86ck]

Actually 2080TI already runs it at 4K30 and almost 60fps at 1440p

StarWars RT tech demo is using DLSS, so in reality it's running at 1440p

I wonder how much better 3080ti will run the same demo

 

[Gudji]

Would pretty stupid of them to say "the most powerful console ever" if they don't know exactly what the competition is doing.

Sony said it in February 2013: "Once again consistent with our heritage in gaming, delivering the most powerful platform ever". They knew back then, they know now.
You guys are delusional if you think both camps don't heard about specs this close to production.

Not saying the XSX won't be more powerful, just saying that PS5 might be on the small ball park and it could end up going either way.

Anyway if the difference is less than 1 TF I couldn't give two shits and will be going with the console with better exclusives. I probably won't be buying on day one either (didn't have that great of an experience with PS4 at day one) it will depend on games, OS maturity and price.

 

[Reindeer]

StarWars RT tech demo is using DLSS, so in reality it's running at 1440p

I wonder how much better 3080ti will run the same demo

Oh ok, didn't know that since it wasn't specified.

 

[longdi]

Actually 2080TI already runs it at 4K30 and almost 60fps at 1440p

Mark Sony could do 36Cu and 36RTu for 1:1 raytracing i guess to make V a ray beast.

In Mark we trust

 

[Reindeer]

Sony said it in February 2013: "Once again consistent with our heritage in gaming, delivering the most powerful platform ever". They knew back then, they know now.
You guys are delusional if you think both camps don't heard about specs this close to production.

Not saying the XSX won't be more powerful, just saying that PS5 might be on the small ball park and it could end up going either way.

Anyway if the difference is less than 1 TF I couldn't give two shits and will be going with the console with better exclusives. I probably won't be buying on day one either (didn't have that great of an experience with PS4 at day one) it will depend on games, OS maturity and price.

Could you pinpoint me to that quote by Sony, couldn't find it anywhere on Google.

 

[Gudji]

Could you pinpoint me to that quote by Sony, couldn't find it anywhere on Google.

It was during the PS4 reveal event (at around 8:30):

 

[TLZ]

Are you telling me MS doesn't know yet @R600 does?

 

[Reindeer]

It was during the PS4 reveal event (at around 8:30):

Xbox One specs with exact final specs leaked multiple times leading up to that PlayStation event so it wasn't exactly a secret. Maybe Microsoft know that the systems will be close or PS5 might have advantage and that's why they aren't saying it's the most powerful console. I'm really not sure though that Microsoft know the final specs for PS5 since nobody has been able to quote the GPU specs for PS5 while exact tflop figures for Series X GPU were mentioned by many insiders.

 

[Kdad]

It was during the PS4 reveal event (at around 8:30):

I think if you listen from 7 minutes on you'll see he was using platform in the ecosystem sense...not simply PS4 hardware. We could ask DIM for his call on this of course

 

[CyberPanda]

edit: nevermind

 

[Marlenus]

Except that the 5700XT is 40 CU and 2150MHz is at its maximum power. 2000MHZ will use quite a bit less power because it's not going to be quite as close to it's voltage limit.

Besides, we already know how much power a 36 CU Navi consumes at ~2000MHz.

Flashing a Radeon RX 5700 to 5700 XT: Free 10% Performance Boost

In addition to our launch day reviews of the Radeon RX 5700 and 5700 XT, we followed up with extended comparisons, overclocking, and more. Most recently enthusiasts...

www.techspot.com

People have flashed the 5700XT Bios to the base 5700. At around 2000MHz the 5700 draws 216W.

Let's not pretend that 216W is some thermally unmanageable monstrosity. It'll likely pull less power than a 56 CU GPU.
We can do a bit of armchair mathematics to prove it too.

36CU @ ~1700MHz = ~160W
36CU @ ~2000MHz = ~220W

56CU is 55% more CUs than 36CU.
If we assume power consumption scales linearly with larger chips then:

56CU @ 1700MHz = 160*1.55
= 248W

Thing is power doesn't necessarily scale linearly so it might actually be more than 250W for the 56CU part.

If we add in the CPU components which at ~3.2GHz will likely consume about 50W then we get something like this:

36 CU APU @ 2000MHz = ~ 270W
56 CU APU @ 1700MHZ = ~ 300W

Now Navi ships with pretty aggressive vcores so I think Sony and Microsoft might factory undervolt their chips to meet power consumption targets so end power consumption might be lower that we predict. But no matter which way you slice it the PS5 will draw less power than the XSX assuming the GitHub leaks are still representative of the final product.

And might I add. 250-300W total thermal output is not that big in the grand scheme of things.
AIB manufacturers can provide sufficiently quiet cooling for such TDPs without the explicit need for liquid cooling. And if the PS5 needs liquid, then the XSX sure as hell will need it too.

In that test for the 5700 to match the stock 5700XT it has to use 15% more power. That is the issue with running a few CUs really hard.

The 5500XT (8GB) and the 5700XT have similar perf/watt as they have similar clock speeds but the 5700 which is running more conservatively has a 17% perf/watt advantage at 1080p and a 23% advantage at 4k.

On top of that there is also binning. Sure a 36CU Apu is going to have more dies/wafer but how many are going to clock at 2GHz? OTOH I would expect almost all working dies of a 56/54CU design to hit 1.7GHz.

There are a bunch of unknowns but looking at the knowns a larger lower clocked part just makes a lot more sense.

 

[Reindeer]

I think if you listen from 7 minutes on you'll see he was using platform in the ecosystem sense...not simply PS4 hardware. We could ask DIM for his call on this of course

Actually yes, he didn't say "the most powerful console", he said "platform". Having listened to the bits beforehand makes it clear that he's speaking about ecosystem. This is why I couldn't find anyone quoting this as proof that PS4 will be more powerful.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Guys, ignore that rumor. I uhh... "Shamelessly" created it on pastebin back in June to test how real some insiders were and how media outlets would report on it. BastienTech on Twitter put it on Twitter and it spread like wildfire on Reddit and elsewhere. There was an influx of pastebins back then too. Just rubbish everywhere.

Basically it proved to me you can't trust just anyone. Anyone takes any rumor and runs with it for the clicks, attention etc.

He's talking about two PS4 Pros duct-taped together LOL.

close, two 36 cu navis duct taped.

Duct taped as in 3d stacked?

yeah, its basically the same as the hidden gpu in the power brick theory from last gen. now the roles have reversed.

there are simply cheaper ways to get to 14 tflops. 1.4 ghz for 40 cus is 80w. if 36 cus is 75w, you are looking at 150w for dual gpus. you could have one big gpu with 72 cus and it will be smaller and be more power efficient.

i remember this rumor from back then. this was when amd had just announced the rdna gpus and revealed the dual CU makeup of a shader engine. its just some guy from gaf or era making shit up.

That of course makes much more sense. We are only speculating here, but in that case scenario, the two Navi10 36CUs chips would have been an earlier devkit, before the availability of the custom 72CUs definitive one.
In the case of any of this could be true (and yet again, for the sake of discussion only), what do you think it would be the best approach _ the big 72CUs chip, or the 2 small ones 3d stack occupying the same space of just one?

3D stacking on new consoles? Watch from 12:31

Are you telling me MS doesn't know yet @R600 does?

I've already said it in this same thread, and nothing substantial and or concise enough, has come up yet that could point me to another direction _ i will bet a dollar with anyone that R600 is actually Mark Cerny, he was sent here to lower our expectations and Ninjad anyone that gets to close to the truth (ask demigod who was moronised yesterday! True).

I hope cerny will reveal at some Point wich one of the users here is his Account lol

 

[VFXVeteran]

The main reason that I have a hard time believing that dual GPU theory is that it sounds like trolling after MisterXMedia.
Also sounds incredibly expensive. Sony would be bleeding money selling that thing.

The dual GPU code in Linux OS is most likely for PC development of applications -- NOT games. The film companies want dual GPUs because the 12G/16G of RAM isn't enough for the assets. I very seriously doubt you will see dual GPUs on a console.

 

[SportsFan581]

E3 2016 and e3 2018 they said most powerful console ever created for 1x and series x before Sony announce ps4pro and ps5.

i m confident if ps5 was going with 9.2 TF plan they would be screaming every where “most powerful console ever”

most glorious thing would be dealer and colteast walk back the importance of power narrative that they have been going hard at for the past few days about series X level of mental gymnastics will be a sight to behold

Regarding X1X, it's a lot easier to be confident when the competition is shipping to retail in a few months and you are still over a year out. RE: 2018, listen to the verbiage there more carefully.

 

[joe_zazen]

Pretty great analysis on AMD chip manufacturing as well as some info on the Ps5 SOC. Can't wait till we all get final specs Console part at 18:15

Except for the insiders saying ps5 being the same or slightly more powerful than, xsx and pachters $1000 ps5 quote; everything lines up for 9.2 and 12 tf. But as Adored says, the ps5 chip looks to be “a broken design”.

it does make sense that Sony would go for the smaller chip size (316-340) vs MS (enormous 420-450) because MS has 4tf Lockhart in the pipeline and Sony is cheap AF. This would mean the insiders are all wrong and Sony has designed a broken chip that is 30% weaker, yet hotter and more power hungry. Possible? Sure. But i would prefere a theory that did not contradict either github or our insiders and make Sony engineers look like moronic stumblebums.

adored mentions chiplets being possible, and if they are feasible, 2X36 would not be crazy expensive, ps5 chip design would not be broken, insiders would be right, and github would not be contradicted.

__________

otoh, the above rests on xsx being 12tf. If it was 9tf, and was upclocked recently to get a 1tf bump to 10; then we dont need dual gpus or chiplets to explain anything. Xsx was less powerful last summer, now it is more powerful, and the power delta is less than 10%. Pachters $1000 ps5 comments can refer to the need for massive cooling + power and maybe a giant ssd. Everything works in this scenario.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Makes sense with the shape of the dev kit. One Oberon on the left and one on the right. Cell 2 in the middle.

 

[joe_zazen]

The dual GPU code in Linux OS is most likely for PC development of applications -- NOT games. The film companies want dual GPUs because the 12G/16G of RAM isn't enough for the assets. I very seriously doubt you will see dual GPUs on a console.

why did vega not have the same? Fiji had it, dropped for vega, back with navi.

 

[psorcerer]

The dual GPU code in Linux OS is most likely for PC development of applications -- NOT games. The film companies want dual GPUs because the 12G/16G of RAM isn't enough for the assets. I very seriously doubt you will see dual GPUs on a console.

It is also incredibly hard to synchronize a dual gpu system for realtime graphics. It will either introduce input lag or have a bad frame pacing.

 

[Thedtrain]

Makes sense with the shape of the dev kit. One Oberon on the left and one on the right. Cell 2 in the middle.

Long live Ken

 

[Reindeer]

Except for the insiders saying ps5 being the same or slightly more powerful than, xsx and pachters $1000 ps5 quote; everything lines up for 9.2 and 12 tf. But as Adored says, the ps5 chip looks to be “a broken design”.

it does make sense that Sony would go for the smaller chip size (316-340) vs MS (enormous 420-450) because MS has 4tf Lockhart in the pipeline and Sony is cheap AF. This would mean the insiders are all wrong and Sony has designed a broken chip that is 30% weaker, yet hotter and more power hungry. Possible? Sure. But i would prefere a theory that did not contradict either github or our insiders and make Sony engineers look like moronic stumblebums.

adored mentions chiplets being possible, and if they are feasible, 2X36 would not be crazy expensive, ps5 chip design would not be broken, insiders would be right, and github would not be contradicted.

__________

otoh, the above rests on xsx being 12tf. If it was 9tf, and was upclocked recently to get a 1tf bump to 10; then we dont need dual gpus or chiplets to explain anything. Xsx was less powerful last summer, now it is more powerful, and the power delta is less than 10%. Pachters $1000 ps5 comments can refer to the need for massive cooling + power and maybe a giant ssd. Everything works in this scenario.

This dual GPU delusion needs to stop

 

[VFXVeteran]

What about the studios that already started making games for PS5 and Xbox? Aren’t they supposed to know by now?

Let's just say most of them are still focusing on announced PS4 titles that haven't been released yet. Given timetables, etc.. studios are focusing on PC development which can easily be down-ported to next-gen consoles so it's not a big hurry to get something exclusive. That's why the games (PS5/XBX) we've seen so far are being produced for PC as well.

 

[CyberPanda]

The dual GPU code in Linux OS is most likely for PC development of applications -- NOT games. The film companies want dual GPUs because the 12G/16G of RAM isn't enough for the assets. I very seriously doubt you will see dual GPUs on a console.

Don’t bring sense into this thread please.

 

[SportsFan581]

This dual GPU delusion needs to stop

Stranger than that is the new competition on who has the BIGGER console.

 

[Marlenus]

Except for the insiders saying ps5 being the same or slightly more powerful than, xsx and pachters $1000 ps5 quote; everything lines up for 9.2 and 12 tf. But as Adored says, the ps5 chip looks to be “a broken design”.

it does make sense that Sony would go for the smaller chip size (316-340) vs MS (enormous 420-450) because MS has 4tf Lockhart in the pipeline and Sony is cheap AF. This would mean the insiders are all wrong and Sony has designed a broken chip that is 30% weaker, yet hotter and more power hungry. Possible? Sure. But i would prefere a theory that did not contradict either github or our insiders and make Sony engineers look like moronic stumblebums.

adored mentions chiplets being possible, and if they are feasible, 2X36 would not be crazy expensive, ps5 chip design would not be broken, insiders would be right, and github would not be contradicted.

__________

otoh, the above rests on xsx being 12tf. If it was 9tf, and was upclocked recently to get a 1tf bump to 10; then we dont need dual gpus or chiplets to explain anything. Xsx was less powerful last summer, now it is more powerful, and the power delta is less than 10%. Pachters $1000 ps5 comments can refer to the need for massive cooling + power and maybe a giant ssd. Everything works in this scenario.

If Sony were targeting 9.2ish TFlops they would be far better off with something like 2x Navi 14. 44CUs at 1.7Ghz will be far more efficient than 36CUs at 2Ghz.

I just don't believe in 2GHz unless RDNA2 has some changes to help it clock higher and if that is the case everything changes anyway.

 

[joe_zazen]

.

This dual GPU delusion needs to stop

give me a scenario that makes sense of insiders, git hub, and sony engineers not being idiots.

 

[FerDS]

AMDs press conference is earlier than sonys. Could be that they figured that in that order
Sonys PS5 talk later is put into context regarding their GPU ...

it’s like that every year

 

[Marlenus]

.


give me a scenario that makes sense of insiders, git hub, and sony engineers not being idiots.

GitHub being misinterpreted as the console SoC when it could just be some BC testing and a high clock cooling system test.

 

[Reindeer]

.


give me a scenario that makes sense of insiders, git hub, and sony engineers not being idiots.

It's either 9.2 tflops as per github or the consoles are pretty close as per insiders since the github leak has some issues with it. You definitely should go with the second option so you can have a piece of mind .

 

[Agnostic2020]

.


give me a scenario that makes sense of insiders, git hub, and sony engineers not being idiots.

Double gpu is never happening man. Why double the cost when you can add one more stack of 20 cu to the same apu for much much cheaper .
Could be that GitHub is for the old launch 2019 ps5 which Sony could have decided to send it out as dev kit so developers get familiar with api.
The 2020 chip could still not be known for the final ps5 in AMD database.

but that’s beside the point. All the devs at this moment have final target spec sheet.

 

[Hobbygaming]

4k isnt the only problem. sony devs will be forced to use 4kcb and thats ok. the problem is all the extra stuff that the cpu will allow. destruction, changes in geometry, cg quality visual effects, ray tracing, an unprecedented levels of interactivity will all require the gpu to render everything. yes, 9 tflops is good for running current gen games, but next gen games will be far more complex in the graphical department and a 9 tflops baseline will hurt both the ps5 and the xbox series x.

games on the xbox still look phenomenal. if you believe rdr2 is the best looking game this gen, it runs at identical settings as the ps4 on the x1 albeit at 900p. games still look fantastic on the x1, just a tad blurry. so yeah, its not the end of the world, but then again the 1.3 tflops x1 isnt the end of the world either. its a just a massive disappointment that held back an entire gen.

If a 9 Tflop PS5 would hurt the baseline, wouldn't a Lockhart console at 4 Tflops be even worse if these numbers are to be true

 

[Reindeer]

If a 9 Tflop PS5 would hurt the baseline, wouldn't a Lockhart console at 4 Tflops be even worse if these numbers are to be true

Lockhart would be targeting 1080p while PS5 4K, big difference.

 

[SportsFan581]

If a 9 Tflop PS5 would hurt the baseline, wouldn't a Lockhart console at 4 Tflops be even worse if these numbers are to be true

The theory would be lower target resolutions. MS is basically doubling performance of their 4k box (literally or figuratively) and could be looking to double their 1080p box in the same manner (say starting at a baseline of 2 to bring things to a better standard and then moving forward).

 

[Hobbygaming]

Lockhart would be targeting 1080p while PS5 4K, big difference.

I see. It'll be interesting but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that both consoles will achieve similar results only through different ways

 

[Elysiumcore]

If Sony were targeting 9.2ish TFlops they would be far better off with something like 2x Navi 14. 44CUs at 1.7Ghz will be far more efficient than 36CUs at 2Ghz.

I just don't believe in 2GHz unless RDNA2 has some changes to help it clock higher and if that is the case everything changes anyway.

The main concern i have with the 2GHZ is heat. I simply see how that would fit in a consumer device. I fully agree with 44 to 52 CU near the 1500gz theory as that would be easier to achieve. We will soon find out

 

[joe_zazen]

It's either 9.2 tflops as per github or the consoles are pretty close as per insiders since the github leak has some issues with it. You definitely should go with the second option so you can have a piece of mind .

i must await the return of jeff rigby.

If a 9 Tflop PS5 would hurt the baseline, wouldn't a Lockhart console at 4 Tflops be even worse if these numbers are to be true

Jason Schrier did say devs hate Lockhart, so I am guessing, yeah, that will be next gen’s boat anchor.

 

[Agnostic2020]

The main concern i have with the 2GHZ is heat. I simply see how that would fit in a consumer device. I fully agree with 44 to 52 CU near the 1500gz theory as that would be easier to achieve. We will soon find out

Not only that . Yield for 2ghz gpu has to be insanely high which makes it impractical. I m sure final ps5 is wider and clocked lower than 2 ghz.

 

[Reindeer]

The main concern i have with the 2GHZ is heat. I simply see how that would fit in a consumer device. I fully agree with 44 to 52 CU near the 1500gz theory as that would be easier to achieve. We will soon find out

Soon? Sony are unlikely to reveal the specs till at least E3 and maybe even not then. You will just have to rely on various leaks and theories until then.

 

[Gudji]

Soon? Sony are unlikely to reveal the specs till at least E3 and maybe even not then. You will just have to rely on various leaks and theories until then.

Sony gave PS4 specs the day it was unveiled. Ofc you're not going to get everything detailed but you will get teraflops.