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[MidGenRefresh]

MidGenRefresh that car is not in the game, or atleast not in the autoshow .

I think there’s 2007 GT3, that’s close enough.

 

[Alexios]

rFactor 2 still looks good 10 years later (but in ongoing dev).

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I'm thoroughly underwhelmed with the RT reflections in this. Also, while this probably beats gt7, I was expecting more from a next gen exclusive forza

 

[SimTourist]

rFactor 2 still looks good 10 years later (but in ongoing dev).

Seems like a lot of racers are adopting this system from iRacing/GT with safety and driver ratings. At least one positive trend.

 

[zephiross]

DC is a game that can look very ugly and very good at the same time. Its all tod and weather depended. And its not ugly, its just showing its age where games newer games like FM and GT7 clearly look better most of the time. But they still lack the rain effects compared to DC, thats still the best in class for a unmodded game.


In this shot the reflections have higher quality lod surprisingly in the final build, look at the lod in the reflection on the back wheels. Even the tree reflections are the same but look worse because the trees got downgraded. And the headlights are also upgraded with better shaders and textures. But almost anything else is downgraded.

What's funny is that the GTR model is a lot better in the 2022 shot (less angular edges) but the ferrari models is much better in the 2023 shot.

But the biggest downgrade is the car paint shader in 2023. Wtf is that ? looks like they put a solid black texture with glossiness set to 80% and called it a day like in the good old Xbox 360 times

 

[Turk1993]

What's funny is that the GTR model is a lot better in the 2022 shot (less angular edges) but the ferrari models is much better in the 2023 shot.

I think the Ferrari is this time the players car and the gtr the ai car, and vive versa in the reveal. Thats the reason why one car model looks better in one game than other.

But the biggest downgrade is the car paint shader in 2023. Wtf is that ? looks like they put a solid black texture with glossiness set to 80% and called it a day like in the good old Xbox 360 times

Im gonna look at that later because the in game paint doesn't look that bad tbh.

 

[Three]

In this shot the reflections have higher quality lod surprisingly in the final build, look at the lod in the reflection on the back wheels. Even the tree reflections are the same but look worse because the trees got downgraded. And the headlights are also upgraded with better shaders and textures. But almost anything else is downgraded.

The LOD has nothing to do with the reflection, the LOD of the red car itself is much better if you compare the models on the left. That's also why the headlight looks better and not because of better shaders. The most striking difference in the reflection is the fact that there is no self reflection in the final build and I would argue the shaders for headlights are worse in the final build due to that. Look at the reflection inside the black GTRs headlights. You see an upsidedown reflection of the track instead of it looking silver/grey from reflecting the other side of the headlight like the 2022 reveal. Look at the splitter (front bumper lip) in the final build. You see some random trees instead of black from the car. The car itself has become invisible in the reflections.

 

[Turk1993]

I think there’s 2007 GT3, that’s close enough.

This is the closest i could get. Don't have the credits right now to buy the car to paint it silver so its in standard white.

 

[Turk1993]

The LOD has nothing to do with the reflection, the LOD of the red car itself is much better if you compare the models on the left. That's also why the headlight looks better and not because of better shaders. The most striking difference in the reflection is the fact that there is no self reflection in the final build and I would argue the shaders for headlights are worse in the final build due to that. Look at the reflection inside the black GTRs headlights. You see an upsidedown reflection of the track instead of it looking silver/grey from reflecting the other side of the headlight like the 2022 reveal. Look at the splitter (front bumper lip) in the final build. You see some random trees instead of black from the car. The car itself has become invisible in the reflections.

There are self reflections, you can see it, in shadows its even easier to notice. Look at front splitter, the trees don't reflect in the places where the self reflections are. But there are bugs, somtimes the RT disappears on some cars randomly.

 

[Bogroll]

Never played Driveclub, but every video I've seen of it looks stunning. So what the hell happened here? It actually looks ugly in this comparison. Was it captured wrong?

Amazing weather effects etc. Awful game.

 

[Emet_bp]

I didn't mean the headlight illumination, im talking about the headlight/backlight modeling and the glass shaders. In Headlight illumination GT is the benchmark, the way they render the light inside the light is insane.

You remember the ugly 190E that was in the early trailers that people mocked. Look how it looks in the final game

vs

I know what you mean and yes, they are a lot better than before.... but still nowhere near the GT7 level.
This is how materials and lights look in GT7.
Ignore the post, I'm just talking about the first video I have found on the twitter. (I could not embed just the video).
I can do some shots to compare if you post some good headlights and tail lights pictures from FM.

 

[Turk1993]

Already posted in the other thread but fits here also

I have made lots of comparison on different tracks with different weather and lighting. I will post them later today but first i will say this. Both games look good, and soo much better with HDR. Played FM on pc and GT7 on PS5 on my 55inch 4K120hz OLED.

Forza has superior environments but not always. Things like grass/bushes and some textures look better in GT7. But Most of the track detail is much much better in Forza which shows the benefits of them rebuilding and rescanning the tracks for current gen. The tracks are filled with POM in Forza which look really good. Trees are also much much better in Forza. However there are times that with the right angle and lighting (when the sun shines on the tree textures) GT7 trees can look really good. But if the light is coming from behind the tree they look bad and very dark (almost black).

Lighting is literally mixed, sometimes GT7 looks better, sometimes Forza looks better. Forza has better atmospheric/volumetric lighting while GT7 nails the colors most of the time. The RTAO is really good in Forza, its helps with the interiors and tracks. GT7 is also not bad, not Forza good but they did a decent job without using RT. GT7 uses RTAO in photomode and you notice the difference immediately.

Things like in game car models are again higher quality in Forza because of the use of photomode lod which is not the case in GT7. GT7 still uses lower lod during gameplay in all modes. Interiors are closer this time but i will give slight edge to GT7 because the older cars still have better interiors most of the time. Newer cars are pretty close and most differences are the materials and shaders. Shaders are massively improved in FM and they look amazing but so do they also in GT7.

The overall reflections are much much better in FM (not perfect tho). GT7 has lower quality cube maps and some low fps reflections in the cockpit. Also the RT really adds depth to the cars in FM, once you get used to it it looks off without it. But he RT has also its own problems which i hope they can resolve.

IQ is much much better in GT7, cleaner and more stable. Forza has some pretty bad iq issues which they need to fix.

Draw distance is slightly better in FM.

Shadows are mixed, sometimes the track shadows in Forza are low res and sometimes GT7 shadows are low res. It all changes with different lighting and tracks.

The weather effects in Forza are much much better but the lighting is too bright in daytime rain. GT7 looks more accurate but the effects are not there to back it up.

The crowds and race atmosphere is excellent in both, crowd look really good in both games.


I played and compared both games in Race mode so the tracks are filled with people and objects to make everything fair.

 

[Turk1993]

I know what you mean and yes, they are a lot better than before.... but still nowhere near the GT7 level.
This is how materials and lights look in GT7.
Ignore the post, I'm just talking about the first video I have found on the twitter. (I could not embed just the video).
I can do some shots to compare if you post some good headlights and tail lights pictures from FM.

Checks the guys (Tiger) profile

 

[Emet_bp]

Turk1993 As I said, ignore the post (and also the guy, because of.... you know) but look at the video, which is real.

 

[Turk1993]

Turk1993 As I said, ignore the post (and also the guy, because of.... you know) but look at the video, which is real.

I don't need to look at that video since i saw it with my own eyes. GT headlight and brakelight rendering is the benchmark which is why i said some of them looks like GT level. They nailed that since GT5P, the attention to detail is insane.
Some of my light shots

 

[DenchDeckard]

I bought assetto corsa competizione in advance of getting my quest 3. Is there anything else I need to make it look insane?

 

[Buggy Loop]

rFactor 2 still looks good 10 years later (but in ongoing dev).

Recent update in Automobilista 2 also is no slouch.





And most importantly, good physics, latest patch makes the game the best rally cross experience in the sim world.




When you spend time in cockpit for serious sim, doesn't really matter how many polygons are on the headlights, immersion and physics are king. I'm tired of these simcades aiming for graphics when physics are so shit. 2024-25 I'm buying a fucking amazing PC sim rig for sure. Triple monitors at the right size, right distance, right angle for basically an holodeck cockpit, better than VR, turns and car distances are at scale. This is the end game.

 

[Alexios]

That's... not going to be better and definitely not more to scale than VR, that's for sure. But whatever floats your boat.

​

 

[Turk1993]

Well as promised here is the first batch.

Full 4K direct captures from race mode with 1 ai car on track. Open the same image 2 times in different tabs and go left on one and right on the other. That way you can flick back and forth to see the difference fullscreen. This way i can spare lots of space in my posts since i have lots of comparisons.

 

[Sebmugi]

Full 4K direct captures from race mode with 1 ai car on track. Open the same image 2 times in different tabs and go left on one and right on the other. That way you can flick back and forth to see the difference fullscreen. This way i can spare lots of space in my posts since i have lots of comparisons.

Thank you for the comparison, but just one more info, it is the PC version (ultra I imagine) or the Xbox series X ??

 

[T0minator]

I'm no Digital Foundry but doing these GT7 vs Forza comparisons myself has been interesting. Both are impressive in their own ways. Car models though GT7 > Forza

 

[Monad]

Funny how Turk is the only one capable of doing apples to apples comparisons, trying to replicate the same conditions on both games with uncompressed quality.

Kudos for him.

 

[FukuDaruma]

Well as promised here is the first batch.

Full 4K direct captures from race mode with 1 ai car on track. Open the same image 2 times in different tabs and go left on one and right on the other. That way you can flick back and forth to see the difference fullscreen. This way i can spare lots of space in my posts since i have lots of comparisons.

Forza looks clearly better in those comparisions, and it's weird because there it's Forza the one that looks vivid and punchy while GT7 looks flat and dull...

Anyway, these mirrors on a PC with an RTX 4090 are a fucking insult:

​

 

[LostDonkey]

Forza looks clearly better in those comparisions, and it's weird because there it's Forza the one that looks vivid and punchy while GT7 looks flat and dull...

Anyway, these mirrors on a PC with an RTX 4090 are a fucking insult:

​

You should see them on the series X it's horrendous

 

[Turk1993]

Thank you for the comparison, but just one more info, it is the PC version (ultra I imagine) or the Xbox series X ??

Pc, i don't have a Xbox.

 

[Turk1993]

This track shows the biggest difference out of any track. The level of detail and overall quality is much higher in Forza.

 

[Sebmugi]

Pc, i don't have a Xbox.

ok thx if someone can do the same with the XSX version of the game that would be cool or I will do it myself as soon as the game is available on the GP ^^

 

[Sebmugi]

This track shows the biggest difference out of any track. The level of detail and overall quality is much higher in Forza.

I'm not sure because I haven't restarted the game recently, but there are 2 versions of the circuits in GT7 that in of the tests/time attacks are generally more empty on the edges of the tracks than the racing versions..
I am wrong ?? Which version did you use for your comparisons ??

 

[Turk1993]

I'm not sure because I haven't restarted the game recently, but there are 2 versions of the circuits in GT7 that in of the tests/time attacks are generally more empty on the edges of the tracks than the racing versions..
I am wrong ?? Which version did you use for your comparisons ??

I made a race so that way there are people and tents/objects on track. Otherwise its missing and looks completely empty, the same goes for FM also. Both are in a race with 1 ai car on track. I made that mistake 2 years ago, i didn't know back than that the trackside objects and crowds where missing in time attacks. So after that i corrected my mistake and made all my comparisons from that moment in race mode.
And there are tents and people, its just lesser comapared to FM on this track. Its also one of the worst looking tracks in GT7. The new tracks look better and more full.

 

[Sebmugi]

yes ok it's true that the large circuits are a problem for furnished correctly.. the solution of the large grass seems to be a good hider of misery.
I can't wait to see the XSX console version in action now.

 

[Musilla]

I'm no Digital Foundry but doing these GT7 vs Forza comparisons myself has been interesting. Both are impressive in their own ways. Car models though GT7 > Forza

Yamauchi is a crazy person.

 

[Turk1993]

Afternoon heavy rain on Nurburgring. The lighting in rain in afternoon or daytime is too bright in FM, the circuit lights are alwyas on when its raining which makes everything too bright. They need to tone it down, in HDR its better but still. GT nails the lighting in daytime rain weather but as i said its missing the effects to back it up. I like the motion blur on the wipers in GT7, they look soo smooth.

 

[Sebmugi]

In GT7 It's funny to notice that there is more reflection on the road through the interior mirror than on the road in front of you oO
and yes there is a problem with the brightness on FM the sky is burnt

 

[Negotiator101]

This track shows the biggest difference out of any track. The level of detail and overall quality is much higher in Forza.

Big difference in Forza's favour.

 

[Insane Metal]

Big difference in Forza's favour.

Yeah, well, that's PC at max settings. It's be better if we were seeing XSX vs. PS5. I don't know how much of a difference it makes but probably some.

 

[Darsxx82]

Yeah, well, that's PC at max settings. It's be better if we were seeing XSX vs. PS5. I don't know how much of a difference it makes but probably some.

There are no differences with PC in terms of number of elements and details on the trackside with console.

The only noticeable difference between XSX and PC would be the reduction in texture sharpness and extra AF. The rest of the values are extremely subtle and difficult to identify.

And we are talking about the RT Performance mode (the only one that DF compared to PC), because according to other comparisons the RT Quality mode in XSX is essentially PC at its maximum except AF.

 

[Taycan77]

Yeah, well, that's PC at max settings. It's be better if we were seeing XSX vs. PS5. I don't know how much of a difference it makes but probably some.

Le Mans in GT7 is literally ported straight from GTS with only a few minor changes to the start finish straight. It's comfortably the most dated track in GT7 along with a couple of fictional tracks introduced in GTS like Dragons Trail.

Watkins Glen is a 2022 DLC track and every bit a match for FM's version, it's the closest we have to a like-for-like comparison.

This is the problem with all these comparisons, very little is like-for-like. Assets in both games, be they cars or tracks, where built at different times, to different standards. Not to mention the difficulty in matching dynamic lighting and weather conditions.

For me the differences come down to artistic intention. One dev is targeting photorealism, the other has a mixed bag of realism and heightened effects. For a true technical leap I think we'll have to wait for GT8 and FH6.

 

[unclbenn]

i love how you can see the background npc's just walking around in GT7. its a little detail thats absent from forza. you can only really notice it in replays but it adds to the believability of the track.

 

[Turk1993]

Afternoon heavy rain on Nurburgring. The lighting in rain in afternoon or daytime is too bright in FM, the circuit lights are alwyas on when its raining which makes everything too bright. They need to tone it down, in HDR its better but still. GT nails the lighting in daytime rain weather but as i said its missing the effects to back it up. I like the motion blur on the wipers in GT7, they look soo smooth.

Well mmm, the fucking games brightness levels are bugged. Just turned the slider up and down which didn't change anything on my screen. but when i saw the image after i took the pictures, it made it clear that it was bugged and overexposed everything when not in HDR mode. Just see the difference with the correct standard brightness vs my fucked up brightness.

anyway here is the rest of the comaparison pic with right brightness level

 

[VeganElduderino]

Hey! At least the trees look better in the final version.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Well mmm, the fucking games brightness levels are bugged. Just turned the slider up and down which didn't change anything on my screen. but when i saw the image after i took the pictures, it made it clear that it was bugged and overexposed everything when not in HDR mode. Just see the difference with the correct standard brightness vs my fucked up brightness.

anyway here is the rest of the comaparison pic with right brightness level

I’m playing in SDR and I had to adjust the gamma in game from .5 to .3 for it to look correct. I don’t understand how they could mess up something so basic.

 

[Bunta_Fujiwara]

Le Mans in GT7 is literally ported straight from GTS with only a few minor changes to the start finish straight. It's comfortably the most dated track in GT7 along with a couple of fictional tracks introduced in GTS like Dragons Trail.

Watkins Glen is a 2022 DLC track and every bit a match for FM's version, it's the closest we have to a like-for-like comparison.

This is the problem with all these comparisons, very little is like-for-like. Assets in both games, be they cars or tracks, where built at different times, to different standards. Not to mention the difficulty in matching dynamic lighting and weather conditions.

For me the differences come down to artistic intention. One dev is targeting photorealism, the other has a mixed bag of realism and heightened effects. For a true technical leap I think we'll have to wait for GT8 and FH6.

The new GT7 tracks added later in the game like Watkins Glenn that are modeled with newer assets to me seems much better on GT than on Forza

 

[Bunta_Fujiwara]

Looking at this video GT looks much more natural also in rainy conditions in my opinion

 

[Whitecrow]

I’m playing in SDR and I had to adjust the gamma in game from .5 to .3 for it to look correct. I don’t understand how they could mess up something so basic.

It's not messed up. It's you not liking their approach to lighting.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

It's not messed up. It's you not liking their approach to lighting.

It 100% is. No contrast + image is too bright. I'm sure it will be patched.

Edit: I'm playing on PC if that makes a difference.

 

[ShakenG]

This track shows the biggest difference out of any track. The level of detail and overall quality is much higher in Forza.

One of the worst looking tracks on GT7.. i keep hoping it gets an upgrade.

I always found it odd that the newish nurburgring WTC800 race got smoke, people partying trackside and stuff added to that race but you cant replicate it in any other race/mode. Made it so feel like an actual race event.
Here's hoping De La Sarthe gets something... because it looks half assed.

Keep up the great comparisons.

 

[Bunta_Fujiwara]

 

[Insane Metal]

GT7 looks much better here. In cockpit view you can see how badly modelled FM is, lots of polygon edges everywhere.

 

[Taycan77]

MotoGamesTV is a very good channel for comparisons. They always give all titles a fair shot.

Unrelated, but I also like how they test different exhaust mods to check the differences in sound. Saves me wasting credits on upgrades I don't want!

 

[Bunta_Fujiwara]

GT7 looks much better here. In cockpit view you can see how badly modelled FM is, lots of polygon edges everywhere.

Also in third person view car paint,how it reflect lighting etc looks so much better on GT. And again it seems Turn 10 just can't match PDs artistry when it comes to replays