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DF - Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth: PS5 Pro vs PS5 - A Vast Improvement At 60FPS
- Thread starter HeisenbergFX4
- Start date
Radical_3d
Member
Yep. I tried to futute-proof my PC in 2016: 16GB at 3200 and a PCIe M2 SSD. Pretty nice for a 2016 machine. But when I suggested that I’d change the card for Civ VII I was told that I’d be useless as the CPU will bottleneck it
PC gaming is a scam (but I still want pretty bottlenecked graphics for my Civ VII). That was totally their strategy. Clear as water. Show games with already good IQ so the value isn’t appealing and the news is the price. Wait a week. Start releasing bangers where IQ was poor on performance. I’m still waiting to see SM2 since everything after August required a Pro patch and this one came out this month. Quality visuals of that game at 60 or close (still don’t know where the VRR window of this thing is) will be fire. FIRE I say!
You have the answer very clearly. Another thing is that the only thing that works for you is people agreeing with you and saying that DF lies....
TrebleShot
Member
Praise Cerny, SM2 looks like ass on the 60 mode on PS5Yep. I tried to futute-proof my PC in 2016: 16GB at 3200 and a PCIe M2 SSD. Pretty nice for a 2016 machine. But when I suggested that I’d change the card for Civ VII I was told that I’d be useless as the CPU will bottleneck it
That was totally their strategy. Clear as water. Show games with already good IQ so the value isn’t appealing and the news is the price. Wait a week. Start releasing bangers where IQ was poor on performance. I’m still waiting to see SM2 since everything after August required a Pro patch and this one came out this month. Quality visuals of that game at 60 or close (still don’t know where the VRR window of this thing is) will be fire. FIRE I say!
Radical_3d
Member
Oh, and Helldivers 2 as well. Just in time for the “fixed” game. By the time my squad mate has stopped burning his PC with Satisfactory I’d have fallen into the Pro’s arms which definitively I’m not going to buy because it’s very expensive
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Possible but more difficult than Rebirth I think as it uses a bespoke engine and custom techniques.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Oh its amazing. Im super impressed with PSSR. Sony deserve major props for bringing this tech to console. I'm just saying this is an extreme example because the PS5 version looks so bad, so it's enhancing the effect so to speak.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I used to be very much into building custom PCs for gaming in the late 90s and 2000s. Didn't prefer consoles at all.Yep. I tried to futute-proof my PC in 2016: 16GB at 3200 and a PCIe M2 SSD. Pretty nice for a 2016 machine. But when I suggested that I’d change the card for Civ VII I was told that I’d be useless as the CPU will bottleneck it
But this is the biggest reason why I stopped with PC gaming (mostly) and just made consoles my primary gaming devices. The incompatibility among different components and the issues with existing components when you decide to upgrade one part is a huge pain in the butt.
I could do that when I had a ton of time. Now whatever free gaming time I have in my day, I want to spend most of it actually playing the games - not tinkering with hardware or software.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
How future proof did you want it to be exactly? We’re about to enter 2025. Your PC will be close to a decade old by the time Civilization VII rolls around.Yep. I tried to futute-proof my PC in 2016: 16GB at 3200 and a PCIe M2 SSD. Pretty nice for a 2016 machine. But when I suggested that I’d change the card for Civ VII I was told that I’d be useless as the CPU will bottleneck it
It’ll still be playable, but I don’t see how you can call anything a scam because you’re unable to get over a decade of high tier performance out of your parts. For the record, you’ll still be able to play it, but turns will take much longer because of your ancient CPU.
Future proofing has always been a meme.
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Radical_3d
Member
I surely hope not. That thang runs on a Switch.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yes, it will still be much faster than on the Switch and last-gen consoles. Not sure about next-gen consoles since your CPU predates them by 3-4 years, but you can’t expect to get 10 years of high/top tier performance out of anything.
Radical_3d
Member
Yeah, but I mean, if they are confident enough to release it in a jaguar/switch cpu is because they’ve greatly optimice their algorithms since VI. Me thinks.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Or the game isn’t just advanced. We’ll see. Whatever the case, you will be able to play the game just fine, so not sure what exactly is the problem here.
Radical_3d
Member
No problem since I don’t mainly game on PC, but as you’ve said future proofing is a meme. In the end PC gaming is just plain more expensive. I get that people that are in an enthusiast forum like this can afford it but the whole “it’s cheaper” is utterly BS. Looking forward for the new cards to see my explorer in glorious 1440p.
killatopak
Gold Member
Hogwarts for instance seems to have better RT. I haven't seen a res or framerate comparison personally.
I don't think it's a one size fits all. It's still up to the devs to choose what to prioritize it seems.
I think we just need to take a look at PS4 Pro to see how they handled stuff.
Zathalus
Member
It can be cheaper in the long run. It can also be more expensive. Upfront costs are almost always more expensive though, assuming you want a specific tier of performance. It really depends on what you want to do and your playing habits. It is more inconvenient then console gaming for sure though, especially in the living room.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
This entirely depends what you want out of your PC. I know people who are still playing on their 10-series cards just fine. You can still play most modern games on low tier PCs, so saying that it’s just plain more expensive is incorrect, especially considering that in many parts of the world, PC gaming is popular and console gaming nonexistent exactly because PC gaming is much cheaper in those countries. There’s no one-size-fits-all. You got guys upgrading every chance they got and you got guys riding old parts until they just don’t work and this can last for well over a decade.
Don’t forget, in some places, consoles are insanely expensive relative to what the average Joe makes.
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PaintTinJr
Member
That's just not true. You are describing garbage in, garbage out.
As the quality of the source - the previous frames and current frame - increases so does the ability to scale and transition between frames; especially when backed by extremely high quality source textures.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Not even the point he was making, but of course, you couldn’t resist.
Literally all I said is we don't yet know how it'll handle upscaling from those very low resolutions. Which is a fact. You're the one apparently desperate to deny that reality.
And being better than FSR doesn't necessarily solve the problem.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Hurt your feelings, I guess?
Salty Pickle
Member
B..bu…but ”it won’t do 60 because CPU-limited”.
Also the ps5 pro isn’t released yet and pssr will evolve just like dlss have. Calm down.
Also the ps5 pro isn’t released yet and pssr will evolve just like dlss have. Calm down.
SweetTooth
Gold Member
The message was clear, the points presented were clear and true. The problem was the examples Sony used to show the improvements.
But in another note, you cant fault them for that too since:
1.they can't simply show 3rd party games and show the devs (partners) in bad light.
2. Their games are of high polish/standard, differences can be a tad difficult to show when the source is excellent.
In the end, they seem to have delivered exactly what they promised in their video.
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SweetTooth
Gold Member
2 DF videos? What is the second one?
PaintTinJr
Member
They've also been opaque about what we saw, meaning if they later reveal more info or show newer footage, we could see a lot of difficulty for anyone pivoting from false narratives.
They've also done a bang up job of letting outlets run with the sticker price complaints followed by system isn't worth it claims by outlets, followed by the same outlets drip feeding their audience 'analysis' of the reveal footage that's creating even greater FOMO for those they've instructed to skip the upgrade.
As a marketing campaign it is genius that they've got DF doing more to sell the unit and bring eyeballs than their chosen outlet CNET.
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Zathalus
Member
The DF direct, it first showed how much better PSSR was compared to FSR. Which is a big selling point.
TheRedRiders
Member
I would seriously consider applying for a marketing role at Sony - that Pro technical presentation was extremely poor and it makes me wonder who's idea it was, I could have done a much better job granted the bar is set low anyway.
TheRedRiders
Member
I'm curious on the graphical settings, for example on an Nvidia card, would this be something similar to DLSS performance mode with medium to high settings?
PaintTinJr
Member
From a conventional slick marketing setup, yes but just look at the trap that's been set for anyone trying to make wild claims about the hardware capabilities or the quality of PSSR. You only need look at how the Communications manager for AW2 said nothing while saying a lot - and grabbed more buzz and attention for a game that's already released - with a look forward to hearing more from us soon styled comment.
With a lack of slick marketing guidance for us to repel, we are doing what they want, and chewing over the video with limited info and actually scrutinizing videos to see improvements, and have probably hooked every potential enthusiast they can to buy soon or move to a would like to buy position. how could the marketing work better than that? especially with us still hungry for more info.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
What I am ultimately trying to tell you, is that you should temper or recalibrate your expectations. The only guarantee here, is that what we end up with on the pro, will look better than whatever we have on the base model. PSSR however, is not a magic bullet. So if a dev is lazy about their effort, there is nothing anyone can do about that.
And some devs will do that, some devs will just take the performance mode on the base model, and aslap PSSR on top of it, that will end up looking better than whatever it looked like on the base model, but will not look as good (obviously) as something that started off with a higher internal rez.
I am not denying any reality, if anything, I am the one who has accepted one.
Again, the only guarantee is that the PS5pro performance mode will look better than whatever the base model's performance mode looks like—to what degree remains to be seen. If you are, however, expecting PSSR to be 720p and bump that to 4K and look as good as a game with an internal rez of 1080p/1296p/1440p, then you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Just like the ps4 pro the ps5 pro will have me buying way more games
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Absolutely nailed on.
If you are wanting complete flexibility to run these games how you want, you have one option which is PC.
If you want a better PS5 experience you get a pro, but you are at the mercy of developers, who could do an amazing PS5 Pro port or could do the bare minimum. How that looks will be on a game by game basis.
SweetTooth
Gold Member
Bolded applies to PC too, sometimes you can't fix bad optimization
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
But you have considerably more options, especially with things like reshade and a community who are more inclined to fix developers issues.
gooner4life_uk
Member
no it will be much cleaner on my PC for sure as I wouldn't have to use any up scaling BS that makes the image even the slightest bit blurry as it does here on pro still ,but also I don't have to buy a $700 ps5 pro ( even though I will
So if I am going to play it through again I much rather do it on my PC .
also I never said there wasn't any difference. Just making up things now because your feelings are hurt.
You won't be playing it at native 4k and the IQ won't be as clean as that without DLSS, which is doing the same thing.
None of which contradicts anything I've said!!!!!!!!!
For the final time: my concern is that based on the evidence so far, the Pro does very little to increase base resolution (especially when using PSSR). Therefore we are largely reliant on PSSR producing good IQ from existing base resolutions.
Given that most of the next gen titles have performance modes with very low base resolutions, then in order to know whether the Pro will render them with good IQ we need to know how PSSR performs with very low base resolutions, riiiigggght????
But we don't have any evidence of how that works yet, so there's a question mark over how well it will render these games (which in reality actually constitute the real use case for the machine, rather than stuff like HFW (already fine) and FF7 (an anomaly).
That is literally all I'm saying.
Lysandros
Member
PS5 being on par with XSX in power level has more to do with its base hardware being truly on par. Crucially, PS5's GPU is ~20% faster than XSX' at rasterisation and various fixed function throughputs along with lower latency/higher bandwidth caches. XSX has a higher compute ceiling. In other words each system is a bit more or less powerful than the other depending on the area with the sum of their overall capabilities (power) being very close/similar.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Which is what’s going to matter. The presentation, as is usually the case, will be last year’s news.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
sachos
Member
The 7700XT can do native 1080p Ultra Settings at 90FPS, 65FPS in 1440p. Enough performance to do 4K PSSR Performance/Balanced at Ultra settings if we are lucky. Was this one CPU limited on console?
Warhammer: Space Marine 2 Performance Benchmark Review - 35 GPUs Tested
Space Marine 2 is the latest entry in the Warhammer 40K universe, where you step into the role of an Ultramarine and battle against the alien Tyranids. In our performance review, we'll look at the game's graphics quality, VRAM consumption, and how it runs across a range of contemporary graphics...
Radical_3d
Member
Yes but mainly in one section of the game where the swarms of reapers are too much. The other issues are within the VRR window so it’s fine. And maybe the pro has a wider one.The 7700XT can do native 1080p Ultra Settings at 90FPS, 65FPS in 1440p. Enough performance to do 4K PSSR Performance/Balanced at Ultra settings if we are lucky. Was this one CPU limited on console?
Warhammer: Space Marine 2 Performance Benchmark Review - 35 GPUs Tested
Space Marine 2 is the latest entry in the Warhammer 40K universe, where you step into the role of an Ultramarine and battle against the alien Tyranids. In our performance review, we'll look at the game's graphics quality, VRAM consumption, and how it runs across a range of contemporary graphics...www.techpowerup.com
I mean yeah but that's putting very low standards on a 700-dollar mid-gen console with very capable rt hardware, to be fair you mentioned buying a console for 700$ is nothing for you. So even if they just added pssr only to the pro you would probably still buy it because you just want the best version possible even if it's a minor upgrade since money is not a worry for you. There is a myriad of rt graphics features available to Nvidia graphics cards even lower-end ones which would be a very welcome upgrade for consoles that might never be ported because of lack of effort.
That being said for the average tech lover it can also be disappointing that said box which is being marketed at a very premium price will be left underutilized and the significant rt hardware boost left untapped in place of a lazy Pssr plugin.
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MacReady13
Member
Recommend everyone (that can) watch the new video on Last Stand Media with Colin Moriarty having a chat with Tom from Moore's Law is Dead. Tom goes into some insider details on the PS5 Pro explaining just how powerful this unit truly is, and how people complaining about it's lack of CPU power are talking shit! It truly is a great watch as this guy knows his shit.
Bojji
Member
We know how powerful it is based on specs, we now also know quality (it's good!) of first public version of pssr.
I don't think speculation from media shills is needed for anything. MLiD is also wrong most of the time so what he says shouldn't be taken as some absolute truths.
This console is the weakest upgrade ever for a console that also was the weakest upgrade ever in history (ps5). This is mostly on TSMC situation and overall tech limits we reached but there is no arguing about "how powerful it is", it isn't very powerful but if devs use it in a smart way difference between it and regular PS5 should be very visible (like in this game).