icecold1983
Member
if DC was also on pc, i suspect most, if not all of the warriors would be singing quite a different tune
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
60fps is essential to racing games. Notice how every other game in this discussion is 60fps?
It's in the same group as fighters, character action games, and FPS. Drive Club aims to be more of a spectacle racer than it does actually being a good racing game.
PS4 emulator coming soony.
No, it clearly isn't essential, or else nobody would be able to play (let alone love) games like DC, FH2, and PGR3/4.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Not essential to me.
Motorstorm PR was my favorite racing game last gen.
It's definitely more than a spectacle.
I'm having a ton of fun playing the game.
icecold1983
Member
same exact scenario happened with ryse
That's because all the ways that pCARS looks better better than DC in are typical "PC version" ways, ie better AF, IQ, AA, etc. DC, however takes the genre forward graphically in much more substantial ways, like global illumination, insane amounts of geometry and detail in the environments, and dynamic weather that nobody else comes close to.
Horizon 2 is 60 fps?
Is Forza Horizon 2 in the OP?
I don't think it was announced back then.
Did you read op at all?
Hmm. Nope.
Some of the most exhilarating and satisfying racing I've enjoyed in years, having nothing to do with the framerate.
Yeah, total bull when talking about racers. The physics engine in DC/FH2 is being refreshed at a much higher framerate than the graphical framerate, responsiveness in controls and button input can be just as precise as a 60fps racer. It's not the same as fighters and action games where the attack animations will obviously be delayed after a button press if they run at 30fps vs 60fps.
There have been many (lovely) pictures of it posted since, unless I'm completely mistaken. In that case, pardon my mistake.
I'll say that "acceptable" is a relative term. To me, it is not acceptable. I want games to control and function as fluidly as possible, and Drive Club sacrificed that for a pretty coat of paint.
I can't even imagine having difficulty driving in the game as a result of the controls.
But then I've always found myself enjoying racers/fps/games in general based on the content instead of some arbitrary framerate requirement. I can play 30+60, seeing how both are "acceptable" especially when consistently smooth as Driveclub/PGR4.
Did you find it difficult to drive or something?
scoobs
Member
Forza Horizons 2 is my favorite racer since like... Gran Turismo 3. 60 fps is definitely not essential to everyone, i could care less as long as there aren't dropped frames that screw up the gameplay experience.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Haha. Your agenda, it is palpable.
For fucks sake, the framerate doesn't dip below 30fps and it has an intense sense of speed. There is nothing wrong with the gameplay unless you take issue with the handling.
Looks like you haven't even played DC. Heh.
It just feels off. Maybe it was just mixed with the overall feel of the game, but I have played a lot of racing games on PC (still need to get Assetto Corsa though) and have not had that jarring feel when I played them. I attributed it to the frame rate, since that was the most stand out difference between DC and games like Dirt, Grid, and Gran Turismo
I just said on the previous page that I played it this past weekend. This was at a friend's house. If you want to continue digging through my post history, you can find that I have expressed interest in buying Drive Club as well
nkarafo
Member
I agree. I played a lot of 60+fps racing games and still play on my PC. Can't go back. 30 is simply not enough for the genre IMO.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Is iRacing still basically a Papyrus game in spirit? Or have those developers long left the industry?
I miss Papyrus.
Also, that MotoGP13 gif in the OP looks like real footage.
I miss Papyrus.
Also, that MotoGP13 gif in the OP looks like real footage.
SolidSnakex
Member
Fighting games stand on their own. When Street Fighter V was announced, no one was asking "Is it 60fps?". Why? Because it's a fighting game and it just is 60fps. You don't even need to ask. That doesn't stand for any other genre.
OsirisBlack
Banned
Agreed
You must have missed the outrage when DmC was confirmed at 30fps. Imagine if the next CoD decided it was going to be 30fps. People would go absolutely ape shit. We even saw DICE and Guerilla make their current gen games 60fps because that is what FPS players have come to expect.
DirgeExtinction
Member
It's funny. When I played a Forza 5 demo at Best Buy a few months back, I couldn't even tell it was 60fps. It felt the same as any racing game I've played(NFS, Motorstorm, FH, GT5, and now DC).
SolidSnakex
Member
Killzone: SF's single player is mostly in a 30-40fps range. It runs uncapped, but not near 60fps. The multiplayer is where it's 60fps. And DMC just proves my point. Can you name the last major 30fps fighting game?
nkarafo
Member
The difference is there. If you can't see it, it might be a problem with the monitor/TV or your eyes (i hope not the later). I can always say when a game runs at 60 or 30fps because its, well, a staggering difference. There is also a noticeable difference between 60 and 100+ fps if you use the right monitor (one that goes beyond 60hz).
Anyway, crappy LCD monitors/TVs may have a lot of ghosting/blurring and visual lag issues that cause the difference to be less noticeable sometimes. On a good LCD or a CRT you can really feel the huge difference.
Many 5th generation 3D fighters were 30fps. Thankfully the standards have been raised since. Can't say the same about the racing game standards unfortunately.
Fair enough, what I imagine can mix people up with it is the braking distance and how well the cars handle in relation. My friend couldn't really manage it at first but ended up drifting perfectly somehow.
I'm a weirdo I suppose, I've always been a console kid and I started gaming on a PC (terrible one at that) and got pretty damn good at playing CS:Source and BF2 at sub 30 FPS hahaha. Until I upgraded many years and now I don't even have a console OR gaming PC. The FPS thing has never really got me since it's all about perception I suppose. A lot of my favourite racing games have been 30 fps because of how the games inherently control, PGR, MSR, Midnight Club, Motorstorm, Driveclub etc. But then I've poured insane amount of time into GT3+4. Many many days. I can definitely perceive the difference between 30+60, it just doesn't change anything to me.
But again, if the 30 does affect you I can't say shit - I just can't understand it.
So it's canopy now? Lol. You said, and I quote:i never said DC had perfect shadows, but all shadows being soft is a HUGE step forward from the flickering PCF style shadows in pcars(and these examples are the lowest lod shadow available, imagine how awful it looks in the distance). they are quite bad and in motion its even worse. and the hard shadow in DC on the windshield reflection is a corner case and is not replicated in the environment.
a tree canopy shadow will NEVER look hard edged like in pcars, that is a fact.
never
As far as I'm concerned, your argument has always been against PCars' shadows being hard and you've used Driveclub as example of getting it right, when I'm here to argue that DC is just as guilty by having a single soft quality on all their environment shadows too. As a counterargument, you've also over-generalized real-life shadows as being soft. To which I was baffled by.
And why do you keep saying PCF anyway when it's just a vague method of rendering shadows. Do you know it's used to render physically-correct soft shadows too? If you wanna say PS3-style shadows, just say exactly that.
I couldn't care less about PCars having incorrect shadows, and I very much PREFER DC's visuals to PCars but to hold the latter in such high regard when you there are other games that ACTUALLY does it better? Please.
Dragonborn
Member
Nope, it's not "essential" and I wish people would cut that out. It's fine if yiu personally don't like 30 FPS but let's not assume that it's something everyone cares for.
DC is definitely the best looking racer I've played and it's damn fun too (though I've only had a day with it).
Right, in a competitive space, such as online MP in an FPS, 60fps is becoming more commonplace since more people are getting used to it.
And how does DMC prove your point? All the previous games were 60,and the newest one was 30fps on consoles and people were livid.
Bayonetta is 60, Ninja Gaiden is 60, MGR is 60, and all past DMC games were 60. God of War is not 60, because it values spectacle over game play, which is similar to what Drive Club does.
vpance
Member
Since the framerate debate comes up so often, I would love to see a friendly challenge to decide once and for all how much 60 FPS really matters. Well, at least among those on here. Like best lap time out of 10 on X track in PCars at 60 and 30 FPS. I don't own the game but it would be interesting to see the results from both camps.
FlutterPuffs
Member
I swear as much as I love 60 fps if I'm having fun with a game, I'm having fun.
Driveclub doesn't feel sluggish or slow. It's fun and it looks good. That's enough for me.
Driveclub doesn't feel sluggish or slow. It's fun and it looks good. That's enough for me.
son of a Sven
Banned
DC and iRacing are about as opposite of driving games as you can get. But you already knew that, right?
DirgeExtinction
Member
Well, when it comes to action and adventure games, I can tell. For example, I can tell with TLOU:R when switching between 60fps and 30fps.
Also, I remember playing Mario Kart 8 at a Target and I also couldn't tell it was 60fps. Maybe I just can't tell with racing games.
Not a fact.
SolidSnakex
Member
Because it's a major character action game that isn't 60fps. That wouldn't happen with a major fighter. Even NetherRealm figured out how to get UE3 to support 60fps, because it's simply expected of the genre.
Would you say that Wonderful 101 is also a game that values spectacle over gameplay? Because its framerate is really no different than GoW.
Mainly because it's super easy to tell when you're rotating a camera around. With a racing game it's not as easy to tell because you're not rotating a camera when you're playing, especially when you've got good motion blur.
It's fairly easy to tell with Mario Kart 8 imo because they don't use any motion blur as far as I can recall.
It wouldn't be fair to compare the differences using a PC racer by merely switching between the two framerates considering the physics engine most likely wasn't designed for the 30fps compromise. There's no setting to refresh the physics engine at something like 3x 30fps to match the precision found in the 60fps setting.
There's a pretty clear difference between the handling response time in PGR2 and PGR4, both 30fps, with the latter having more hardware power used to improve the physics engine refresh rate.
nkarafo
Member
What i'm saying is that Project Cars is a game that i believe a iRacing player would play in his fancy setup but i don't think DC would be acceptable, being locked at 30fps. These guys take their racing games seriously and if someone asked them if 60fps is "essential" they would most likely say yes.
For someone who plays racing games more casually, i guess it's not that big of an issue. For me it is though, even though i'm mostly a casual racing fan myself :/
Try this: Instead of looking straight ahead at the center of the screen, try to focus on the scenery that goes by fast near the edges of the screen as you get past it. In a 60fps racing game, the scenery moves smoothly, at 30fps there is an obvious judder.
icecold1983
Member
in the original pic i was speaking about, the shadows shown were tree shadows. all shadows in reality will have SOME degree of softness. if you could provide an example showing a completely hard edged shadow(as seen in pcars) in real life i would like to see it.
WRT pcf, i specifically said ps3 style PCF. the pcars shadows are very similar to the cheap, low quality pcf shadows often used in the ps3 version of multiplatform titles.
Screw 60 fps. Driveclub' frame rate is stable, that's all I need. Go to Sinclair pass, set time around sunset, set heavy snow and try to drive. Even staying on the track is a difficult task after the sun sets. It's the most atmospheric racing game I've played. I love it, and I couldn't care less about it being less than 60 fps.
60 fps are for gaming elitists and people who prefers to be proud of their gaming machine instead of having fun.
FH2, DC and PGR4, as I always say, have proven already that 60 fps is not necessary for the game.
As long as the game can be loved and controlled as it actually is, the problem is the player, and not the game.
FH2, DC and PGR4, as I always say, have proven already that 60 fps is not necessary for the game.
As long as the game can be loved and controlled as it actually is, the problem is the player, and not the game.
Recently there was JoJo All-Star Battle. The effects of 30FPS was really noticeable.
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