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[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Power consumption matters for home consoles as well though. They are all targeting lower power consumption if possible. Less heat, greater reliability, more compact designs...

Power consumption matters for consoles, yes. But die size matters much more. There is no good reason to include little cores for idle mode power saving when that die area can be better used providing more L3 cache for the big cores, or GPU CUs; since it's always an APU with CPU and GPU on the same die.

Consoles don't have die area to spare. So big.little cores on the CPU is a waste of silicon.

MS uploaded these documents as part of a legal process BTW, this isn't some typical "leak."

That's what is being presented by the leaker. But how do you know these specific slides were taken from the FTC legal process documents? Did you check yourself?

 

[Lucie Goosey]

I hate to see it, but the future is digital and always online. Gamers in shitty area's with shitty internet are just fucked at this point.

Fuck that.

Always online can eat a dick.

There's no good reason for it that can't be overcome with better hardware, engineering, machine learning, AI, and software.

The age of all digital was inevitable though. My Steam purchases of games from the 90's survived much better than my Xbox 360 games through multiple moves. No idea where those went.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

No way they'll go ARM, losing backwards compatibility in the process.

What are the advantages of ARM?

Commonality with Mobile platforms?

 

[sendit]

Fuck that.

Always online can eat a dick.

There's no good reason for it that can't be overcome with better hardware, engineering, machine learning, AI, and software.

The age of all digital was inevitable though. My Steam purchases of games from the 90's survived much better than my Xbox 360 games through multiple moves. No idea where those went.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Finally!! Gen 9 has sorely missed Micropolygon Rendering Optimizations. This along with a Extensibility Model will allow the teraflops to really rasterize the raytraced intersections on the branch tree before going to ram. This will really simplify game development.

 

[Bartski]

ok but how many teraflops

 

[GigaBowser]

Finally!! Gen 9 has sorely missed Micropolygon Rendering Optimizations. This along with a Extensibility Model will allow the teraflops to really rasterize the raytraced intersections on the branch tree before going to ram. This will really simplify game development.

and thens they still use Creation engine

 

[Griffon]

Cloud hybrid is stupid and always will be. Nobody wants to pay for the server cost and additional lag that cloud brings.

 

[THE DUCK]

ok but how many teraflops

1 teraflop, but it has on chip ray tracing and 512gb of ram with a 128 core cpu and a 4tb ssd as fast as the ram. Floats like a butterfly and stings like bee.

 

[foamdino]

I can definitely see MS doing the "this gen sucked for us so let's start the next gen early". It will give them the headstart that worked so well in the 360 days and it will give them the "power crown" they seem to crave so much.

Also having Nintendo, Sony and MS release hw at a different cadence would actually be interesting and possibly could give the industry a bit of a kick as there would always be something new coming in a couple of years instead of waiting a whole gen.

I could see MS pursuing a strategy of much shorter gens so they can continually update their hw offerings - I can also see them throwing in the towel as they seem to be obsessed with subs numbers.

 

[MarkMe2525]

and thens they still use Creation engine

well.....at least they tried.

I can definitely see MS doing the "this gen sucked for us so let's start the next gen early". It will give them the headstart that worked so well in the 360 days and it will give them the "power crown" they seem to crave so much.

Also having Nintendo, Sony and MS release hw at a different cadence would actually be interesting and possibly could give the industry a bit of a kick as there would always be something new coming in a couple of years instead of waiting a whole gen.

I could see MS pursuing a strategy of much shorter gens so they can continually update their hw offerings - I can also see them throwing in the towel as they seem to be obsessed with subs numbers.

This feels like it could be true. They really haven't made much headroom in Gen9, and will at best, match Gen 8's market share. Something like this would make them or break them, but I feel like that would eventually happen anyways. Why not pull off the bandaid.

 

[Sgt.Asher]

After 15 years the power of the cloud will be realized.

 

[ZehDon]

... Also having Nintendo, Sony and MS release hw at a different cadence would actually be interesting and possibly could give the industry a bit of a kick as there would always be something new coming in a couple of years instead of waiting a whole gen...

If developers are struggling to take proper advantage of console hardware now, when everything is aligned between platform vendors for the better part of a decade, I can't imagine we'd be seeing better results if things become unaligned. Imagine being a developer, having to adjust your pipeline every 3 years to accommodate for entirely new hardware? Madness.

 

[truth411]

So if I'm reading this correctly, MS next gen hardware is an Xbox Version of the Switch?

 

[Drew1440]

This is interesting when you consider Microsoft has a ARM chip codeveloped with Qualcomm, SQ1.
Also didn't AMD have an ARMv8 core in development before the first Zen processor was released?

 

[mitchman]

Switching to Arm shouldn't be difficult for Microsoft.
1. MS already has an x86-64 translation layer present in Windows 11 Arm (its performance is hindered by Qualcomm hardware).

2. They can design an Arm CPU with instructions that improve the performance of x86 translation, for example the Chinese Loongach CPU's have this built into them.

This is what Apple does in their Arm-based chip, they added extra instructions to improve performance for the emulation. A mode to emulate Intel memory ordering was also added.

 

[Dural]

This is interesting when you consider Microsoft has a ARM chip codeveloped with Qualcomm, SQ1.
Also didn't AMD have an ARMv8 core in development before the first Zen processor was released?

Qualcomm is also set to release their first chip after the acquisition of Nuvia, being dubbed the 8cx Gen 4 right now. These chips are supposed to be the Windows answer to Apple's M processors with high performance and low power, so I'm sure MS is working with Qualcomm on them. Rumors suggest it is slightly faster than the M2, which is pretty good for a first gen product. If they're as good as has been rumored, MS could potentially go with the second or third gen version for the next Xbox CPU and use AMD for the GPU. With the smaller core size of the ARM chips, they should be able to use a larger GPU.

 

[Audiophile]

it'll be armless

 

[DR3AM]

Day 1

 

[akaFullmetal]

There's no way they will release a revised XSX in 2024 and then have no new hardware for 4 years until the start of next-gen. That is simply too large a gap.

I would bet on a "Pro" console between Fall 2025 and Spring 2026 to hold over until the true successor in 2028.

Phil already said no pro console and the Xbox sx is their pro model.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Phil already said no pro console and the Xbox sx is their pro model.

Well lots of people here call Phil a liar, so I guess Series X Pro is happening.

 

[akaFullmetal]

Well lots of people here call Phil a liar, so I guess Series X Pro is happening.

Believe what you like, that's info we have so far about it and none of the leaks have pointed to anything contradicting that.

 

[Twinblade]

Fuck that.

Always online can eat a dick.

There's no good reason for it that can't be overcome with better hardware, engineering, machine learning, AI, and software.

The age of all digital was inevitable though. My Steam purchases of games from the 90's survived much better than my Xbox 360 games through multiple moves. No idea where those went.

I hear ya on that, but its already half way there now.

 

[UltimaKilo]

I don't know how much he knows but he's credible. Maybe his info is outdated.

Who knows when then slides were created? Business plans change as the market and technology changes. It's so incredibly early, so nobody should take this stuff seriously now, or for the next couple of years.

 

[saintjules]

Regarding ARM

 

[Syphon Filter]

Seems like they are going all out on the cloud shit, hybrid system , so games won't work offline, have they learned nothing from the Xbox one reveal. should have gone with arm this gen. All consoles will go with arm next gen, power to performance is miles better then x86.

Arm is garbage.

 

[Syphon Filter]

ARM is the future of computing , baffling if you think traditional CPU/GPU structures will be the future, it's cheaper, smaller and more efficient.

Anyone screaming BC from behind thier monster 4090 rigs lacks basic reading comprehension , they are suggesting a cloud hybrid console, ARM for local, cloud for BC , personally find this quite exciting you'll have tiny low power draw consoles vs monstrous watt guzzling PC/ consoles.

It will be a stark contrast to what we have now.

you guys have been saying arm is the future for years, it will never happen.

 

[SABRE220]

For the people saying arm is better, can you tell me what are the advantages compared to the zen cpus in terms of performance? When aiming for mobile power envolopes and performance targets it definitely fits well but Im not sure its going to scale well when trying to get near-desktop levels of performance especially since they dont need to worry about battery life.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

No way they'll go ARM, losing backwards compatibility in the process.

Don't be so sure. If anyone has the competency to make that switch, it's Microsoft. They've been supporting Windows on ARM for ages (not well) and if they have plans for all out ARM support on Windows, you can bet ARM is in the cards for Xbox. Also consider that Microsoft themselves don't care as much about device sales as they do about Game Pass subs. If they want to make an emulator or port the games to ARM to cover their compatibility needs, I don't doubt their ability to do so. It's third parties that are the bigger unknown, but if Capcom is any indication, publishers are pushing ARM builds with newer engines.

I don't necessarily think this will happen next gen, but if they've been talking about it for a while it wouldn't surprise me if this is a transition they have every intention in making - with the BC situation being a much smaller issue than the rest of the logistics for their broader enterprise software business.

 

[Fake]

Regarding ARM

People here really live in another dimension thinking ARMs is good? Lmao.

Or they just ignore Digital Foundry in that departament. Good for smartphones and tablets? Yes. In the same level as x86 desktop CPUs? Never.
Apple is giving the best money can buy in ARM departament and runs RE4 at same or lower config than PS4.

Don't be so sure. If anyone has the competency to make that switch, it's Microsoft. They've been supporting Windows on ARM for ages (not well) and if they have plans for all out ARM support on Windows, you can bet ARM is in the cards for Xbox. Also consider that Microsoft themselves don't care as much about device sales as they do about Game Pass subs. If they want to make an emulator or port the games to ARM to cover their compatibility needs, I don't doubt their ability to do so. It's third parties that are the bigger unknown, but if Capcom is any indication, publishers are pushing ARM builds with newer engines.

I don't necessarily think this will happen next gen, but if they've been talking about it for a while it wouldn't surprise me if this is a transition they have every intention in making - with the BC situation being a much smaller issue than the rest of the logistics for their broader enterprise software business.

BS. Microsoft already tried to push ARM years ago and flop. IDK why you guys keep ignoring so much Microsoft about 'tries this tries that'. Microsoft had a huge reputation of burning money. AMD sell their components at lower price than the competition (vs Nvidia and vs Intel), AMD cpus right now are already BC from the box, but Microsoft gonna put their BC team behind Xbox 360 BC for reverse engineering just because of ARM? Imagine the loads of money this move will cost.

Microsoft and Google have a vast list of 'subjects' failed in the market. Microsoft tried to make Notebooks using snapdragon, but the perfomance was terrible and their operation system are not suitade for low energy devices.

At the end of day neoGAF can spam the 'lol' emotion as much as they like, Digital Foundry are giving the cruel world numbers about ARM.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Ps4 already used ARM for the OS so the next Xbox might do the same and it would make sense because isn't Microsoft's OS traditionally a hog on resources? A separate ARM processor taking care of those tasks could help out

 

[TrebleShot]

you guys have been saying arm is the future for years, it will never happen.

Give it time. It's catching up real fast.

 

[Audiophile]

AMD's average release schedule for ZEN is about ~18mths; putting Zen 7 in Q1 2027 & Zen 8 in Q3 2028

Average release schedule for RDNA looks to be about ~20mths (taking into account next projected release); putting RDNA 6 in Q4 2027 & RDNA 7 in Q3 2029.

RDNA 2 PC parts released the same month as RDNA 2 consoles, while ZEN 3 PC parts released the same months as ZEN 2 consoles (with ZEN 2 PC parts releasing 20mths earlier).

A flagship console with an AMD APU releasing in Q4 2028 will likely be based on ZEN 7 or "ZEN 7+" for the CPU & RDNA 6 or "RDNA 6+" for the GPU.

ZEN 6 / RDNA 5 seems very conservative unless they know something we don't about AMD's release schedule seeing a considerable slow down..

 

[Thirty7ven]

I can definitely see MS doing the "this gen sucked for us so let's start the next gen early". It will give them the headstart that worked so well in the 360 days and it will give them the "power crown" they seem to crave so much.

The head start didn't do as much for 360 as people think. It was mostly the PS3 lunch price and multi platform performance along with. Xbox One and Series sold faster than 360 early on…

Next Xbox launching one or even two years earlier like some fans are hoping, because this gen has sucked for Xbox so far, doesn't even make much sense if you consider cross gen period and a PS5 pro.

They will also want to keep their multiple HW configs strategy if the emails are anything to go by, so the benefits of launching earlier will be purely down to marketing because third party devs and Xbox themselves won't be focusing on that next Gen hardware. The first won't care and the latter can't leave all those GP subscribers behind.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The head start didn't do as much for 360 as people think. It was mostly the PS3 lunch price and multi platform performance along with. Xbox One and Series sold faster than 360 early on…

Next Xbox launching one or even two years earlier like some fans are hoping, because this gen has sucked for Xbox so far, doesn't even make much sense if you consider cross gen period and a PS5 pro.

They will also want to keep their multiple HW configs strategy if the emails are anything to go by, so the benefits of launching earlier will be purely down to marketing because third party devs and Xbox themselves won't be focusing on that next Gen hardware. The first won't care and the latter can't leave all those GP subscribers behind.

I don't believe "fans" started this rumor as far as I know and a very well known leaker of chips looks to believe it now as well

 

[Thirty7ven]

I don't believe "fans" started this rumor as far as I know and a very well known leaker of chips looks to believe it now as well

Didn't say fans started the rumor, just that the want for the next console to come out a whopping two years earlier is a consequence of how it has been going this gen.

And I do believe that doing so will just be another blunder from Xbox. Unless MS has realized that this is how they milk the same userbase they have, but that doesn't even make sense because they lose money on the hw early on at least.

 

[foamdino]

Looks like xbox-next will be releasing early

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

If MS are ditching the refresh plans and instead going for an aggressive Hail Mary next-gen push in '25/'26 then they have to throw huge resources into it now to do it in 2/3 years instead of the usual 5/6 years.

Really could be make or break for Xbox and or Spencer. Nobody should want them to leave/fail to be honest....Competition is good and essential IMO.

 

[Panajev2001a]

If MS are ditching the refresh plans and instead going for an aggressive Hail Mary next-gen push in '25/'26 then they have to throw huge resources into it now to do it in 2/3 years instead of the usual 5/6 years.

Really could be make or break for Xbox and or Spencer. Nobody should want them to leave/fail to be honest....Competition is good and essential IMO.

Nintendo is there and there are other people in the industry who's shadow could look Sony enough if MS were to leave (including MS itself).

Part of competition is failure of those that cannot compete proportional to their size and I could say methods employed… MS is more an emote going scorched earth approach, they have big cash reserves to finance what only some of the evangelist are still considering a thought experiment…

 

[Panajev2001a]

Looks like xbox-next will be releasing early

Fair if you are allowed to do an Xbox-Next only title if you wanted to… else it is just a pro console.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Nintendo is there and there are other people in the industry who's shadow could look Sony enough if MS were to leave (including MS itself).

Part of competition is failure of those that cannot compete proportional to their size and I could say methods employed… MS is more an emote going scorched earth approach, they have big cash reserves to finance what only some of the evangelist are still considering a thought experiment…

What I'd really like to see from MS is them doing similar to what Sony did with PS1/2. They really need to take full advantage of their now huge first-party but they'll need to get someone in overall charge that can get it all organised and run as slickly as Sony and Nintendo's FP.

 

[BlackTron]

If they're thinking of using ARM it's because they're probably thinking of buying the company.

That's not how it works lol

ARM is about to be publicly listed on the stock exchange.

They're fair game for anyone.

I thought you were talking about Nintendo lmfao

 

[Del_X]

I believe that Kepler guy. Hardware advancements stated in the plans for 2028 are here now. 2026 seems realistic. Most games remain cross gen until 2028 with probably only a few titles being Next Xbox/PC exclusive.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Looks like xbox-next will be releasing early

It what I heard like 2 months ago or so so seems to be picking up traction

So on vacation and traveling around a lot in the mountains so no cell service so wont be able to reply for a few days but it seems likely Playstation will have the pro market to themselves for a couple of years at least but sounds like Xbox will drop the next gen Xbox 2 well before PS drops the PS6

 

[TheCoolDave]

I've been an Xbox fan forever, Xbox live member for like 10-15 years(few months after the 360 release), Gamepass for years now but, if they only release a console that is digital only, and no way to use my physical media my Series X will be the last Xbox I buy....

I guess time will tell...

 

[T-Cake]

New console reveal at Game Awards in December, then?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

New console reveal at Game Awards in December, then?

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

So how many Tittyflops can this system do?

0 they'll all be censored and considered sacrilege against feminism.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

No way they'll go ARM, losing backwards compatibility in the process.

Microsoft doesn't depend on hardware backwards compatibility like Sony, they've invested a ton into BC so stuff like this doesn't get in the way. The OG Xbox was x86, the 360 switched to PowerPC and had some BC, the Xbox One Switched to x86 and was backwards compatible with OG Xbox and 360.

 

[bitbydeath]

New console reveal at Game Awards in December, then?

Next June could be possible if they really are aiming for 2026, might be planning to get the announcement out around the PS5 Pro announcement.

I'm guessing Series S and X will still have games made for them but they won't make it so you have to make games for them.