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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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Azure J

Member
Moments like this make it really hard to enjoy the Smash fandom at times. It's like I love the energy and enthusiasm shared when people discuss the series, but the levels of vitriol they can reach when every one of the games in the series is S tier stuff is like... Damn.

And here I thought roster fights were one thing. :lol
 

Emitan

Member
Pointing out a lack of depth isn't vitriol. I've still put more time into brawl than pretty much any other game besides TF2 and Battlefield 2 and SSBM
 
Brawl is only superior to Melee in amount of content, certainly not in actual quality. Tripping alone puts Brawl below Melee, not even getting into the joke that is the hitstun and shield stun.

I just don't see any way one could sing the wonders of a game that potentially punishes you every single time you try to run for absolutely no reason.
 

Azure J

Member
Pointing out a lack of depth isn't vitriol. I've still put more time into brawl than pretty much any other game besides TF2 and Battlefield 2 and SSBM

Wording says it all, but honestly it's cool.

I definitely know what you mean about putting time into the game though. I haven't played it in quite a while thanks to Marvel 3, decreased time for console gaming as of late and a bunch of portable gaming I've done in the last year or so, but I had some absurd total playtime over 1200+ hours on it. I think it's inflated because I used to idle in the game like crazy, but I'd say 3/4ths of that total time was actual playtime.
 

Azure J

Member
My only real qualm with Brawl's gameplay engine was the lack of momentum when moving about the air. Charging full screen with Falcon for a diving panch was so damn satisfying thanks to Melee's emphasis on momentum. Brawl kinda made everyone have this uniform movement speed and it was terribly relaxed unless you weren't short hop/fast falling with your approaches 100% of the time.

Ledge grabbing being so OP is about the only other thing I can thing of that was absolutely dumb in the game. Everything else is preference really (although I can agree with complaints regarding hit and guard stun).
 

pramath

Banned
Totally diverting the discussion from Melee vs Brawl (because I'm sick of the same old arguments, over and over again), will you get SSB4 on Wii U or 3DS? Or both?
 
Call me crazy, but I kind of liked the variety of stages in Melee better. Brawl certainly has some good stages, but none really stood out, mechanically, like Brinstar Depths from Melee. (So annoyed they chose Brinstar for the retro stage instead of Depths - Norfair already covered the general concept...)

The quality of the music (although not the quantity) seemed higher in Melee as well; a lot of the orchestral tunes in Brawl sounded like they were mere MIDI files being run through some merely-decent soundfonts, with a few exceptions (the main theme, the Fire Emblem theme choir), while Melee generally used a real orchestra for those kinds of songs; even songs that used an orchestra in Melee got downgraded for some reason in Brawl (Green Greens immediately springs to mind).

Brawl has the better roster, though.
 

pramath

Banned
aren't they going to be different games? why wouldn't you get both?

Are you sure they'll be different? I was under the impression that they're the same game with cross platform play, and with the 3DS version being more 'personalized' than the Wii U version.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
No, it means "Show me your moves". So they did. On you.
I just wanted to see some dance steps. DDR machines say "Show your moves", you don't see people beating those up. It's just very very rude.

IDK, I think its pretty LOL worthy for people not on Smash boards to call Brawl causal. Anyone here tourney players? Ex-tourney players? Or are you guys got the "oh I can beat all of my friends" type of skill?
I'm the head of the South London Smash Scene. Now before you tell me that it doesn't count because I'm the only member, let me just point out that I have won every single tournament X (lost count) wins 0 loses.. I'm the champion, the bees knees, the shish kebab, the gravy on the chips. That has got to count for something.

Brawl is only superior to Melee in amount of content, certainly not in actual quality. Tripping alone puts Brawl below Melee, not even getting into the joke that is the hitstun and shield stun.
Maybe some people don't care about those things. One thing I do care about that Melee did better was the trophies. Brawl just has lazy model imports from a selection of GameCube games.
 
I'm honestly kind of concerned about the supposed "personalization" thing for the 3DS version. Wouldn't something like that inherently produce unbalanced results? Basing any kind of tournament around a game like that would be hell incarnate.
 

Gravijah

Member
I'm honestly kind of concerned about the supposed "personalization" thing for the 3DS version. Wouldn't something like that inherently produce unbalanced results? Basing any kind of tournament around a game like that would be hell incarnate.

just use vanilla characters in tournament settings.

i hope the 3ds version is inspired by the equipment system in kiu, personally.
 

likeGdid

Member
My only real qualm with Brawl's gameplay engine was the lack of momentum when moving about the air. Charging full screen with Falcon for a diving panch was so damn satisfying thanks to Melee's emphasis on momentum. Brawl kinda made everyone have this uniform movement speed and it was terribly relaxed unless you weren't short hop/fast falling with your approaches 100% of the time.

Ledge grabbing being so OP is about the only other thing I can thing of that was absolutely dumb in the game. Everything else is preference really (although I can agree with complaints regarding hit and guard stun).

The edge-guarding game was half the fun for me in Melee.
 

Azure J

Member
Huh.
Was this ever confirmed?

It's one of the only things we know about the next Smash Bros. games from last E3's presentation.

@likeGold: Edge guarding was really a part of the game I never really got into until Brawl funnily enough. Nothing like being all "lol denied" with a Marth tipper. :lol
 
Another issue I have with Brawl is how hard it is to die. Lives last too long--the characters on the whole are much floatier, meaning they can fall sideways much further back to the stage, recoveries for the most part are bordering on ridiculous, you can grab the ledge from stupid far away (allowing easier recovery and removing a lot of edge guarding options), not to mention auto sweetspot. Smash Bros. is built around getting people off of the stage to kill them. In Brawl lives last so long and into such high percentages that the game is less about getting people off the stage so they can't come back and more just hitting them so hard they hit the blast line on the sides or top more often than not. It pushes the game into more of a traditional life bar fighter, where everyone is surviving everything until that one hit where you just go too far and the game says you're dead.

Maybe some people don't care about those things.

And maybe some people absolutely do. What makes your opinion any more valid?

Tell me this--did having these things in the previous Smashes lower your experience in any way?
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
While Brawl had a nice variety of music I'd rather they cut back on tracks so that every series has a similar selection of arrangements. Some stages had a handful whereas others had a just a pinch. Oh and make sure the songs go with the fighting nature of the game. Midna's Lament might be a nice song, but it sure doesn't suit the mood.
 
I'm the head of the South London Smash Scene. Now before you tell me that it doesn't count because I'm the only member, let me just point out that I have won every single tournament X (lost count) wins 0 loses.. I'm the champion, the bees knees, the shish kebab, the gravy on the chips. That has got to count for something
I'm heading up to take your title, I will defeat you and become the Cat's meow, your gravy is out of date and the chips are overly soggy.

Another issue I have with Brawl is how hard it is to die. Lives last too long--the characters on the whole are much floatier, meaning they can fall sideways much further back to the stage, recoveries for the most part are bordering on ridiculous, you can grab the ledge from stupid far away (allowing easier recovery and removing a lot of edge guarding options), not to mention auto sweetspot. Smash Bros. is built around getting people off of the stage to kill them. In Brawl lives last so long and into such high percentages that the game is less about getting people off the stage so they can't come back and more just hitting them so hard they hit the blast line on the sides or top more often than not. It pushes the game into more of a traditional life bar fighter, where everyone is surviving everything until that one hit where you just go too far and the game says you're dead for sure.
I infinitely prefer not having to bugger around with ledge games myself, each to their own but i'd sooner punch someone right out the screen. Auto sweetspot is in fact a plus for me, no more days of DK spinning by the stage edge and failing to grab because he ended up facing the wrong way.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
And maybe some people absolutely do. What makes your opinion any more valid?

What? How did you get that out of my post. I just said some people may not care for those things so those factor will not influence their opinion of the games.


I'm heading up to take your title, I will defeat you and become the Cat's meow, your gravy is out of date and the chips are overly soggy.
Unfortunately we stopped accepting application as of about five minutes ago.
 

NeonZ

Member
Tell me this--did having these things in the previous Smashes lower your experience in any way?

I really didn't like Melee's hitstun for what's worth.

Although I guess I'm the rare oddity who has always disliked large combos as big tools in fighting games.
 
I don't doubt that many people are into smash purely for the fanservice but I don't get how anybody could prioritize that over gameplay. If I want to listen to Nintendo music I'd just put it on my ipod. If I want to look at character models of Nintendo characters, I'd google image search. If I want a great story, I'd read a book...I sure as hell wouldn't be playing a smash brothers game lol

There is definitely something appealing about compiling Nintendo history all in one disc but I don't understand how people can get excited for something like that. Isn't the point of being a gamer, well, to play games? When I see a new character announcement, I get excited for the gameplay possibilities and not how pretty they look on the character select screen...frankly even though I'm more inclined to play a character that I personally like, its the way they play that keeps me coming back. If a new smash game just had a trophy room, the subspace/adventure mode cutscenes, and a sound room....I wouldn't buy it and I wouldn't expect anyone else to.
 

Gravijah

Member
I don't doubt that many people are into smash purely for the fanservice but I don't get how anybody could prioritize that over gameplay. If I want to listen to Nintendo music I'd just put it on my ipod. If I want to look at character models of Nintendo characters, I'd google image search. If I want a great story, I'd read a book...I sure as hell wouldn't be playing a smash brothers game lol

There is definitely something appealing about compiling Nintendo history all in one disc but I don't understand how people can get excited for something like that. Isn't the point of being a gamer, well, to play games? When I see a new character announcement, I get excited for the gameplay possibilities and not how pretty they look on the character select screen...frankly even though I'm more inclined to play a character that I personally like, its the way they play that keeps me coming back. If a new smash game just had a trophy room, the subspace/adventure mode cutscenes, and a sound room....I wouldn't buy it and I wouldn't expect anyone else to.

presentation and gameplay are equally important to me in video games.
 
presentation and gameplay are equally important to me in video games.

I don't agree with your premise for this particular comparison (I think Melee's presentation beats Brawl's pretty handily) but I guess we are just different breeds of gamer?

When I discuss how good a game is, I pretty much always go directly to gameplay and treat the rest as ancillary. Especially fighting games...
 
would super mario bros 1 be super mario bros 1 without the music, sound effects, art style, etc?
The statement I quoted is fair game. But saying Brawl has better gameplay than Melee if you ignore tripping is crazy. I can see how someone could prefer Brawl, but from a pure gameplay perspective Melee is far superior.
 

cednym

Banned
NooooOOOooooope

Myself, critics, and everyone I know in real life seem to agree that Brawl is the better game. That the presence of hit-stun and "less floaty" physics would supersede a much better roster, hundreds of songs, Final Smashes, Assist Trophies, crawling, gliding, footstool jumping, three taunts per character, the return of intro animations, and other minor (welcome) additions, cosmetic or otherwise, is absurd to me. Yeah, tripping is stupid, but it doesn't happen very often, and it doesn't automatically make Brawl a terrible game. Smash Bros. was never about being a hardcore, balanced fighting experience anyway -- the existence of items and gimmick stages speaks to that.

I just played a few Melee matches and a few Brawl matches, and I still believe that Brawl is the better of the two. From what I've gleaned over the years, the only people who seem to prefer Melee are a few hundred fans on the Internet who don't quite understand the point of Super Smash Bros. to begin with. Not every "fighting" game is trying to be Street Fighter.

But whatever, there's no point in arguing. Every well-received game out there has its legion of vocal detractors. You're allowed to prefer Melee, but not if you think Brawl is "mediocre." Those are some hilariously exaggerated standards.
 

SmithnCo

Member
Myself, critics, and everyone I know in real life seem to agree that Brawl is the better game. That the presence of hit-stun and "less floaty" physics would supersede a much better roster, hundreds of songs, Final Smashes, Assist Trophies, crawling, gliding, footstool jumping, three taunts per character, the return of intro animations, and other minor (welcome) additions, cosmetic or otherwise, is absurd to me. Yeah, tripping is stupid, but it doesn't happen very often, and it doesn't automatically make Brawl a terrible game. Smash Bros. was never about being a hardcore, balanced fighting experience anyway -- the existence of items and gimmick stages speaks to that.

I just played a few Melee matches and a few Brawl matches, and I still believe that Brawl is the better of the two. From what I've gleaned over the years, the only people who seem to prefer Melee are a few hundred fans on the Internet who don't quite understand the point of Super Smash Bros. to begin with. Not every "fighting" game is trying to be Street Fighter.

But whatever, there's no point in arguing. Every well-received game out there has its legion of vocal detractors. You're allowed to prefer Melee, but not if you think Brawl is "mediocre." Those are some hilariously exaggerated standards.

It would be that much better with better physics and combo ability for me. The gameplay is the glue that holds most games together. Some of the stuff you can pull off in Melee due to less floaty physics is extremely satisfying, and it's missing in Brawl. I guess it depends what you're there for. Brawl is definitely superior in the fanservice department, but Melee, IMO, is more fun at a fundamental level.

That's why I take issue with the idea that Brawl's gameplay is better than Melee's. That said, Brawl is still an amazing game, especially when you're in the mood for a good party game. It just doesn't have the depth that Melee had.
 
I played Brawl for the first time in over a year last weekend. The first thing I noticed after coming back was the lack of hitstun, which never really bugged me at the time. But after such a long time of playing Street Fighter and MvC, the lack of hitstun was completely jarring.
 
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