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[Snakey]

I really hope that the team is like 1.5x bigger than Brawl team because I would like to see 45ish characters because I would be not happy to see some characters being cutting due to not enough times that they have been saying for last 3 games production.

I think Nintendo should give Sakurai three full years to make Smash 4. Keep in mind that development for Brawl began in October 2005 and probably concluded in November or December 2007, giving them two years of development time.

This would mean though that Smash 4's earliest release date would be Q4 2014, but I would be perfectly fine with that.

As long as all 39 characters of Brawl's roster return, Mewtwo and Roy are brought back, and Ridley and Mega Man are added in, I would be perfectly happy with the roster. Characters such as Dixie Kong, Little Mac, K. Rool, and Toad would simply be icing on the cake. Sakurai should really delay the game if there are more characters he wants to get in (I would have been very ecstatic if Mewtwo, Roy, and Dixie Kong had made it into Brawl). A Smash Bros. game only comes ONCE per six or seven years, so he should take as much time as he likes.

 

[Black-Wind]

As characters, individually. One of my biggest pet peeve's is when people take this House of Representative philosophy towards the roster and try rationalizing what series do and do not deserve.

I agree with this actually.

I think people get locked up into this thought that there's some complex politics involving sales and stuff when it seems that Sakurai just picks stuff he likes a lot of the time.

To me it seemed that he liked Saki, for example, seeing how he was open with how much Japan wanted him and how much he "fits in" with the other characters. And given how the series has gotten a sequel because of it's cult following I could see the characters from the new game succeeding where Saki failed. I'm sure the AT list is peppered with a few characters he likes enough to make full members of the roster in SSB4.

 

[Boss Doggie]

So the truth comes out eh? "Giving Mewtwo Lucario's moves"? wtf is wrong with your shit, people?

 

[Snakeyes]

As for Isa, I think he won't get in due to the dismal sales performance of S&P2 (which was even worse than the original S&P).

S&P 2 sold better for the simple fact that it was released outside of Japan.

 

[Snakey]

S&P 2 sold better for the simple fact that it was released outside of Japan.

Sin & Punishment was released on the Virtual Console outside Japan.

 

[Black-Wind]

I think Nintendo should give Sakurai three full years to make Smash 4. Keep in mind that development for Brawl began in October 2005 and probably concluded in November or December 2007, giving them two years of development time.

This would mean though that Smash 4's earliest release date would be Q4 2014, but I would be perfectly fine with that.

As long as all 39 characters of Brawl's roster return, Mewtwo and Roy are brought back, and Ridley and Mega Man are added in, I would be perfectly happy with the roster. Characters such as Dixie Kong, Little Mac, K. Rool, and Toad would simply be icing on the cake. Sakurai should really delay the game if there are more characters he wants to get in (I would have been very ecstatic if Mewtwo, Roy, and Dixie Kong had made it into Brawl). A Smash Bros. game only comes ONCE per six or seven years, so he should take as much time as he likes.

Seeing as both the WiiU and 3DS can have DLC I don't see why he would need to do that. If there's any series that can show off DLC for Nintendo it's Smash and MK. And seeing how he already seemed open to the idea for brawl (had it been possible that is) along with the fact that he's allowing others on the team to be more hands on with the characters (which I'm sure would allow for character work to be done post release while he focuses on KI: UR2 or w/e) I see no reason why they wouldn't try to do DLC to get in those characters he wants but doesn't have the time for.

Also, on the topic of Chell ... I'm actually all for WTF 3rd party characters that may be coming to the Nintendo consoles for the first time on WU. Really, I think people over think this stuff ... it's supposed to be fun and nothings more fun than a WTF reveal.

 

[Grokbu]

Here's a pipe dream idea; Chell. Her playstyle would revolve around exploiting the traps she sets with her portals and gels.

B - Portal Gun shot. First shot creates a blue portal, second an orange one. Portals can only be placed on the stage and disintegrate after being used. The opponent is stunned for a short period after going through a portal.

Side B - Repulsion Gel. Similar to a bumper but only makes you bounce upward.

Side B (smash) - Propulsion Gel. Increases the velocity of a character walking or falling on it, similar to the UFO in the Fourside stage. Chell's moves become more powerful when sped up by the gel. Disappears after being used.

Down B - Companion Cube. It spawns directly above Chell and can be used as a projectile. Similar to Link's bombs or Peach's turnips.

Up B - Aerial Faith Plate. Similar to Sonic's Up B.

Final Smash -
A bit complicated and potentially broken but I think she would make for a really interesting character.

Hrm, sounds interesting.

I wonder if there's a Nintendo character that could have a similar moveset.

 

[Snakeyes]

Sin & Punishment was released on the Virtual Console outside Japan.

But it sold about 50k from what I've seen around the web.

 

[Snakey]

But it sold about 50k from what I've seen around the web.

50K in North America alone.

 

[Black-Wind]

I'm lost ... why exactly are people listing off sells numbers again?

 

[Snakeyes]

50K in North America alone.

But even if it sold 100k in the rest of the world, the total sales for S&P would still be lower than the estimated sales of the sequel. I guess your argument would make sense for the Japanese market, which usually has the say in what is included in Smash Bros. games.

Still, I'm baffled as to why the sequel had such low sales in Japan.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I thought Sakurai don't want to add all popular characters to the roster, so those sale records mightn't count. Who know.

I am looking at rumors for last three games, and it was amusing. I was not aware of Geno rumor.

 

[Red Arremer]

Well, I don't think it's possible to predict new additions to the roster anymore. Save for just a few more household names like Ridley, or some more Mario, DK and maybe Zelda characters, I really don't think it'll be easy to determine who will be introduced aside from them.
I mean, we got Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Wolf and Lucas, who were completely out of the blue and unexpected.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Lucas was one of the three characters I was 100% sure would be in Brawl. I mean, most people wouldn't have thought that, but to the people who were totally obsessed with Brawl hype back then, the signs were there.

 

[Red Arremer]

I would argue that noone expected both him debuting and Ness making a return, though.

 

[Cranzor]

I was looking through the Dojo and found this, thought it was funny.

Down Taunt: Ganondorf draws a sword.

He takes out the sword he stole from the six Sages and takes a look at it.

... Then puts it away.

What are you putting it away for? Use it! People tend to make fun of Ganondorf for this.

Sakurai knows we want a new moveset! I hope it happens in the next one.

 

[Snakey]

I was looking through the Dojo and found this, thought it was funny.



Sakurai knows we want a new moveset! I hope it happens in the next one.

Yeah, I think Sakurai could very well go the extra mile this time, especially if there are no new Zelda characters added.

Also, does anyone have the source to where Sakurai said he did not change Ganondorf in Brawl because he did not want alienate players who liked Captain Ganondorf?

 

[IntelliHeath]

Yeah, I think Sakurai could very well go the extra mile this time, especially if there are no new Zelda characters added.

Also, does anyone have the source to where Sakurai said he did not change Ganondorf in Brawl because he did not want alienate players who liked Captain Ganondorf?

Just give it to Black Shadow then we will be happy.

 

[Karsticles]

Yeah, I think Sakurai could very well go the extra mile this time, especially if there are no new Zelda characters added.

Also, does anyone have the source to where Sakurai said he did not change Ganondorf in Brawl because he did not want alienate players who liked Captain Ganondorf?

As a Ganondorf main (I know, poor me), I wouldn't mind his moveset changing as long as the ->B stayed the same. I love that move.

 

[Azure J]

As a Ganondorf main (I know, poor me), I wouldn't mind his moveset changing as long as the ->B stayed the same. I love that move.

Honestly, the moves Ganondorf should keep include this, his own punch (just because I figure him to be the overbearingly forceful Magic Fu type), down aerial and his jab (though buffed back to Melee standards). Everything else is fair game.

Ganondorf secondary here.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Seperate note, but Kid Icarus is amazing. Glad Sakurai got to do something other than Kirby and SSB. Also restores my faith that he knows exactly how the 3DS works and SSB3D/4 will be brilliant.

 

[Karsticles]

Honestly, the moves Ganondorf should keep include this, his own punch (just because I figure him to be the overbearingly forceful Magic Fu type), down aerial and his jab (though buffed back to Melee standards). Everything else is fair game.

Ganondorf secondary here.

Totally. In terms of normals, the foot stomp is just beastly. Programmed terribly in Brawl, but I love the motion of the move. I've always had a thing for big martial-arty-warrior-guys who do jumping stomps on characters with both of the feet pressed together.

If they keep the Wizard Punch (standing b), I'd like for it to auto-correct, have armor, and be roll-cancelable. Basically, a move primarily for messing with people's heads.

If I were making this game, I'd do crazy shit like make Ganondorf's up+B cancelable into down+A.

 

[Codeblue]

Lucas was by far the most boring and derivative character in Brawl.
Is he a big deal in Japan or something? I certainly don't care about him.

How can you not care about Rope Snake?

You should play Mother 3 though (and Earthbound if you haven't already). No one can tell a story quite like Itoi.

 

[SmithnCo]

I also love Ganondorf's side B "grab." Awesome looking move which had the added bonus of leading to some hilarious sacrifice kills.

 

[Professor Beef]

Count me in the Ganondorf Chokeslam Fan Club.

 

[Degen]

Brawl Ganondorf was such a fraud compared to the perfect heavy-hitter that was Melee Ganondorf

only reason I gave Ike the light of day

 

[The Awesomest]

Based on the new information coming out on Fire Emblem 13, I'd say there is a case to be made for Krom replacing Ike. (not story spoilers, probably)

Spoiler

Krom promotes to Great Lord, whereupon he learns Aether at level 5.

He also seems to be about the same build as Ike. He will be the most recent Lord, and it seems redundant to keep Ike around as well. And of course Marth is guaranteed a spot. Maybe a third FE slot could go to Micaiah? Or the new Roy hotness, plzzzszss

 

[Black-Wind]

Does new Roy have 2 Swords? He looks to be holding 2 in the art ... but IDK what his past art was like outside of Smash so I'm wondering if that's new.

Is there any reason he's being brung back as DLC?

 

[SmithnCo]

Does new Roy have 2 Swords? He looks to be holding 2 in the art ... but IDK what his past art was like outside of Smash so I'm wondering if that's new.

Is there any reason he's being brung back as DLC?

It kinda looks like a sword... but it could also be shield armor like he has on his shoulder.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Count me in the Ganondorf Chokeslam Fan Club.

You can chokeslam people off the stage, just like Kane!

 

[Snakey]

Just give it to Black Shadow then we will be happy.

I have said that multiple times as well. Ganondorf's current moveset would fit Black Shadow perfectly.

Based on the new information coming out on Fire Emblem 13, I'd say there is a case to be made for Krom replacing Ike. (not story spoilers, probably)

Spoiler

Krom promotes to Great Lord, whereupon he learns Aether at level 5.

He also seems to be about the same build as Ike. He will be the most recent Lord, and it seems redundant to keep Ike around as well. And of course Marth is guaranteed a spot. Maybe a third FE slot could go to Micaiah? Or the new Roy hotness, plzzzszss

Krom can also do Quick Draw. I still much rather keep Ike though. I would definitely like to see Roy back as well.

Does new Roy have 2 Swords? He looks to be holding 2 in the art ... but IDK what his past art was like outside of Smash so I'm wondering if that's new.

Is there any reason he's being brung back as DLC?

That second sword you are seeing is actually a scabbard.

I am pretty sure he is being brought back so early because he is very popular in Japan, and being released during Golden Week helps. Roy is the most prominent lord of the GBA Fire Emblem trilogy.

 

[The Xtortionist]

I have said that multiple times as well. Ganondorf's current moveset would fit Black Shadow perfectly.

yep

 

[Lucario]

I'd personally prefer no cuts be made to SSB4 to prevent the fanboy butthurt that happened last time.
If I had to make cuts, though:

Jigglypuff. My main in Melee and one of my mains in Brawl, but Rest getting nerfed to the point of uselessness just make her stop being fun to play. All she can do is wall of pain now, there's no skill-intensive falls into your opponent hitbox anymore. Unless they bring her back to Melee power levels, just cut her.

Falco/Wolf (pick one): Too many fucking clones, StarFox has too many characters in SSB games as-is. We don't need more space furries.

Toon Link for being a failed experiment (IMHO). The only people I know who play him are newbies who spam his DAir, and most admit he's a boring, clone-ish character.


Everything else is too important/fun/popular to cut. Arguments could be made for ROB/Game and Watch, but they we both executed so well in Brawl I'd be sad to see them go.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Falco/Wolf (pick one): Too many fucking clones, StarFox has too many characters in SSB games as-is. We don't need more space furries.

Is it that part of the cycle already?

 

[cednym]

I have said that multiple times as well. Ganondorf's current moveset would fit Black Shadow perfectly.

I don't quite get this line of thinking. Ganondorf has a handful of unique attacks taken from Twilight Princess (and one from OOT). Why would Black Shadow have moves from the Zelda series?

 

[Snakey]

I don't quite get this line of thinking. Ganondorf has a handful of unique attacks taken from Twilight Princess (and one from OOT). Why would Black Shadow have moves from the Zelda series?

Care to explain which ones?

 

[cednym]

Care to explain which ones?

His forward air (ground pound punch) is from OOT; I believe it's the only non-clone attack he had in Melee, for some reason.

The purple "Darkness" used in several of his attacks is also from OOT.

His side special move is taken from a cutscene in Twilight Princess where he lunges forward and grabs one of the Six Sages. Ganondorf also lifts Tetra up by the neck in Wind Waker. Here's a picture I found from a wiki:

His side tilt (piercing kick) is from the final phase of the Twilight Princess boss battle.

Also, the animations for his various sword item attacks are taken from the Twilight Princess boss battle as well.

 

[The Awesomest]

He can keep those ones then.

 

[Grokbu]

EDIT: Nvm.

 

[KevinCow]

guys ganondorf has some moves that kinda vaguely look like something he did in a zelda game once, clearly it is a ridiulous and insane leap in logic to suggest that the big, slow, strong captain falcon clone move set might be better suited to a character who is from the same game as captain falcon

 

[cednym]

clearly it is a ridiulous and insane leap in logic to suggest that the big, slow, strong captain falcon clone move set might be better suited to a character who is from the same game as captain falcon

You've got that right. Even more insane is that a new character from F-Zero would be included in the game at all. Insaner yet is that Black Shadow would be included over Samurai Goroh.

Also, Twilight Princess is old news. There's no reason to give Ganondorf a completely new sword-based move set anymore. If anything, he might have a few new attacks from OOT/OOT 3D, but the bulk of his repertoire will have carried over from Brawl. I'd sooner bet on a pig Ganon newcomer replacing Ganondorf than Ganondorf inexplicably getting a completely new move set.

And come on, there's nothing "vague" about those attacks. Are you telling me it's miraculously coincidental that all of Ganondorf's new moves just so happen to look like Twilight Princess animations? They also happen to be his only moves with new official attack names in the Japanese guide books. There was a conscious design effort to give him those new attacks.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

what if Beast Ganon and Ganondorf were separate characters?

Beast Ganon as a large, Bowser type character who uses his trident and some darkness moves. His Final Smash could be Ganondorf's final smash from Melee.

Ganondorf could get a darkness type beam that fires from his hands, sort of like the attack he does every so often in Oot. And Ganondorf should look more like Oot 3D. I think that's the Ganondorf most people remember best.

 

[Gravijah]

what if Beast Ganon and Ganondorf were separate characters?

Beast Ganon as a large, Bowser type character who uses his trident and some darkness moves. His Final Smash could be Ganondorf's final smash from Melee.

Ganondorf could get a darkness type beam that fires from his hands, sort of like the attack he does every so often in Oot.

if they are handled zelda style, sure.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The elephant in the room

Maybe a bizarre Wario/Luigi hybrid moveset. Represents the Spin-Off games in Mario's universe, maybe has his own icon which is a tennis racket with an upside L in it?

Special: Fastball: Waluigi pulls out a baseball, you can charge it by holding the button, when released he throws the baseball. A simple projectile, doesn't knockback much, modest damage. Waluigi has frames of immunity while throwing.

Side Special: Kart Racer: Waluigi pulls out a generic MKDS styled kart, hops in and charges forward. Basically a clone of Wario's bike, but a bit faster, but slower to pull out

Down Special: Waluigi Tornado: Waluigi gets on one leg, shapes his body, does a twirl, identical to this, including the racket. Similar in flavor to Luigi's down special, but a lot different animation wise.

Up Special: Pogo Stick: Waluigi hops on a pogo stick and does a hop into the sky, then throwing the stick to the side. Used similar to Sonic's spring move, but a little less air time, and damages all the way up.

His smash attacks would consist of various other Waluigi stuff. His up smash would be hitting a dice block, his side smash a golf club swing and his down smash could a breakdance type spin.

Basically, Waluigi's entire moveset would show off all the games he's been in, while providing Mario with a very unique character that represents the not standard games Mario also has.

 

[Kurtofan]

Any news?
I hope they still put more and more trophies!

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

Perfect Ganondorf:
- Replace Warlock Punch with a slow-moving charged projectile like in Ocarina of Time (would be cool if it was easily deflected by attacks/powershielding and had a speed increase every time it was deflected). Keep all other B moves the same.
- Replace up tilt with something non-shitty. Keep other tilts and his jab the same.
- Replace his up aerial with something equally-useful, his current one seems a bit off for how big he is. Keep all other aerials the same.
- Ditch his smash attacks and make new ones where he uses his Twilight Princess sword.

Oh and then make Toon Ganondorf who is completely different.

 

[udivision]

Any news?
I hope they still put more and more trophies!

This won't be a "news" thread for quite some time.

 

[Azure J]

For real though, are we going to attempt a "GAF Votes: Smash 4 Roster" to forward to Sakurai via twitter whenever things start to get really exciting in its development? I'd just like to see what the final tallies from GAF would look like.

 

[cednym]

When things start to get exciting, it's going to be far too late to make any roster suggestions. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he's already locked the roster down. Both the Melee and Brawl (minus Sonic) rosters were finalized before development even began.

Oh, and I've always thought that Ganondorf's four main actions in OOT would make for a good set of special moves.

Standard Special Move: Hold to charge your hand overhead and release to throw a ball of electricity.
Side Special Move: Swatting arm deflect, sort of like Mario's cape.
Up Special Move: Hover that can be held to float longer; think R.O.B.'s recovery, but not nearly as obnoxious.
Down Special Move: A ground punch creating a small shockwave, producing a larger shockwave if done from the air.

 

[Kjellson]

The elephant in the room

Maybe a bizarre Wario/Luigi hybrid moveset. Represents the Spin-Off games in Mario's universe, maybe has his own icon which is a tennis racket with an upside L in it?

Special: Fastball: Waluigi pulls out a baseball, you can charge it by holding the button, when released he throws the baseball. A simple projectile, doesn't knockback much, modest damage. Waluigi has frames of immunity while throwing.

Side Special: Kart Racer: Waluigi pulls out a generic MKDS styled kart, hops in and charges forward. Basically a clone of Wario's bike, but a bit faster, but slower to pull out

Down Special: Waluigi Tornado: Waluigi gets on one leg, shapes his body, does a twirl, identical to this, including the racket. Similar in flavor to Luigi's down special, but a lot different animation wise.

Up Special: Pogo Stick: Waluigi hops on a pogo stick and does a hop into the sky, then throwing the stick to the side. Used similar to Sonic's spring move, but a little less air time, and damages all the way up.

His smash attacks would consist of various other Waluigi stuff. His up smash would be hitting a dice block, his side smash a golf club swing and his down smash could a breakdance type spin.

Basically, Waluigi's entire moveset would show off all the games he's been in, while providing Mario with a very unique character that represents the not standard games Mario also has.

I always thought that Waluigi should be represented in the Wario series in Smash Bros., even if he hasn't been in any Wario games. Just to be like the W version of Luigi, haha.