Through cednym logic, I have decided that Ridley should be a clone of Yoshi.
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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition
- Thread starter Snakeyes
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What
Seriously, how do you get that from anything I've ever said? I might not have the most popular opinion, but I'm always well-intended and rational in a pessimistic, hope-for-the-best-and-expect-the-worst sort of way. Having been around pre-release for Melee and Brawl, it's funny how the underwhelming realities of the final product do little to keep hopes in check for the next game. It's like everyone forgets once a new Smash Bros. is announced.
friskykillface
Banned
haha just going through the dojo site since someone posted and i totally forgot about this:
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smh at everyone spamming that move online
, go home Ike
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smh at everyone spamming that move online
, go home IkeIntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
We might get news during e3 or Nintendo Event in Sept/Oct.
I don't know. You seem to think it's perfectly logical for Ganondorf to be a Captain Falcon clone. Pretty much the same thing.
Well, no, Sakurai seems to think it's perfectly logical for Ganondorf to be a Captain Falcon clone. You know, the guy making the game, and the only guy whose opinion matters.
Clones were included in Melee at the figurative last minute just to beef up the roster count, and Ganondorf happened to be among those characters. In Brawl, Sakurai could have given him a completely original move set if he wanted to -- but he didn't.
Logically, if Sakurai didn't want to make Ganondorf unique following a major role in Twilight Princess, then why would he want to do so six-plus years later? There's a precedent in keeping clones familiar, but there's no history of giving veterans (let alone two game veterans) a 100% new move set. With Ganondorf in particular, something like that would have happened in Brawl if it were to happen at all. The swordsman Ganondorf ship has sailed.
For the record, I hate that Ganondorf is a Falcon clone, but I have no reason to suspect that a total move set re-haul is plausible.
I agree. There won't be a second F-Zero character unless there's a game in the works on the Wii U or something, though. All I know is that Black Shadow won't ever be a playable character. People like Black Shadow because he's an evil, "bad ass" villain, but Goroh has always been pushed as the more iconic of the two, be it through cameo appearances or promotional materials.
Chet Rippo
Member
Yeah, I just don't see them changing Ganondorf in any significant way, whether it would make sense or not.
I have seen the idea of Black Shadow taking Ganondorf's current moveset on Japanese message boards. However, I am pretty sure they like Black Shadow there due to his prominent role in the F-Zero anime (as well as being voiced by Norio Wakamoto).
Black Shadow is an idea that makes perfect sense to most of us, but I think Sakurai's conservatism will keep Ganondorf still with a Captain Falcon inspired moveset (though Sakurai might go in the way of giving him even more different A-moves and perhaps a different special this time).
The same goes for Toad. That character has the best resume of any Mario character not yet playable in Smash Bros, but I think Sakurai sees his role in Smash Bros. as being Peach's neutral special.
Lately, I have been conflicted about Dixie Kong and K. Rool as well. Those two characters are probably the two most noteworthy characters from a series already with a playable character in Smash Bros. outside of Ridley. However, both of those characters missing the boat of Donkey Kong Country Returns might make Sakurai think the series is adequately represented with just DK and Diddy.
Of course there is also the possibility that Sakurai continues to deem Ridley a boss character, and that Little Mac does not have enough move diversity to warrant playable status.
Really, its very difficult to think of a character that does not have some mark against them that might keep them from being included.
Nocturnowl
Member
No way that Little Mac should be left out due to a lack of diversity, one could have made the same argument against Marth but here he is.
And as far as Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow go, would anyone really want Goroh? I feel he's just getting mentions because he is the original rival for Falcon which extended as far as instruction manuals and because he's a samurai so easy moveset potential? Black shadow has more rival worthy status in GX, not sure about the anime or GBA sequels though. Though he does have some pretty nifty backflips in that one GX cutscene.
And as far as Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow go, would anyone really want Goroh? I feel he's just getting mentions because he is the original rival for Falcon which extended as far as instruction manuals and because he's a samurai so easy moveset potential? Black shadow has more rival worthy status in GX, not sure about the anime or GBA sequels though. Though he does have some pretty nifty backflips in that one GX cutscene.
Black Shadow pretty much eclipsed Samurai Goroh from GX onward. He was pretty much the most important character in the F-Zero anime next to Ryu Suzaku (Rick Wheeler) and Captain Falcon, and F-Zero GP Legend and F-Zero Climax were based off of the F-Zero anime.
I think Takamaru will have Samurai Goroh beat for the katana and japanese weaponry moveset.
Its really a shame because Ganondorf's Melee/Brawl moveset really would be natural for Black Shadow.
On a sidenote, I remember reading an interview back in 2007 with Norio Wakamoto being asked if he was contacted to do any voice work for Brawl, and he said no, but added that he would be happy to reprise his role as Black Shadow.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Waluigi sucks.
I followed Smash Bros. since I learned of Samus being a playable fighter in Smash 64, which is to say, before even the original was released in Japan.
In regards to disappointments, I can say with Melee and Brawl there were some momentary disappointments them (with Melee it was character inclusions for the likes of Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link, and for Brawl it was the exclusion of Ridley, Mewtwo, and Roy). However, my disappointment would fade as soon as I got my hands on the game itself. Brawl to me was as big an improvement over Melee as Melee was to Smash 64.
At this point, there are so few characters left that I anticipate for inclusion in Smash Bros. (with two of them even being characters that were playable in Melee). I think after Smash 4, there is a good chance that I will be completely satisfied with the series in terms of characters. For those who are curious my wishlist for Smash 4 is this:
- Ridley
- Mega Man
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Dixie Kong
- Little Mac
- K. Rool
- Toad
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Drop Toad, Add Palutena, Mii, and Takamaru and you probably have a very accurate list of newcomers there. Of course, Sakurai likes to select as much on his whims as on predictable metrics so this may be completely off.
Toad is definitely the least likely character on my wishlist, and probably won't get in Smash 4. I think Palutena is one of the most likely newcomers, and that Takamaru is one of the most likely candidates for the retro newcomer. As for Mii, I think the character's chances are 50/50 despite it making so much sense in regards to inclusion.
truly the worst of the worst
Professor Beef
Banned
Cool, I'm not the worst anymore.
Coppertracks
Member
You're forgetting Magnus from KI. I'll be AMAZED if he doesn't get in.
I love Waluigi, and after Toad he is the next logical choice for a new Mario character.
And because I never tire of saying it, Professor Layton for the next 3rd party character!!!
talking game characters here
Nocturnowl
Member
You just wait until the debut of Wabeef
Professor Beef
Banned
...Would he be someone who likes everything I hate? What a monster.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I don't think there's any way he'd get in. He literally has nothing separating him from Ike, and there are other Kid Icarus characters who would probably get in before he would.
Nocturnowl
Member
Good point.
He'd like Hill Top zone music, enjoy Metroid Prime, use Blanka in Street fighter and be a fan of Kane. Wait....that would be me!
Professor Beef
Banned
Come on, man. Let me have my dreams of a kickass Ganon whose moves are consistent with the last two games he's been in (three if you count the GCN tech demo).
I still think it's possible for Sakurai to shove off the moves to a better-suited character if he really wanted to. It all depends on who the newcomers are.
And, if Ike got the boot in favor of a new FE character like Krom, then Ganon could at least be a worthy character to pick up the slack.
Nocturnowl
Member
They should put it in SSB4, better than Seven rings in Hand which somehow made the cut.
Fiend? I think you're the fiend around here
Professor Beef
Banned
I'm no fiend, I'm the lovable rapscallion who has eclectic tastes. You, on the other hand, are evil incarnate.
Nocturnowl
Member
Evil incarnate you say? The King of Evil which gives me the ability to swipe Captain Falcon's moveset, I had to tie this back to the topic at hand somehow.
The problem with Krom is that he is basically Ike Part 2. He even has a staff wielding little sister. Krom if he gets in will definitely have a moveset based off of Ike's.
Professor Beef
Banned
You did it masterfully, I must say. Just like the sword.
Yeah, if you're some kind of BARNYARD ANIMAL.
Krom also has
Aether
Interestingly, we may have to look at Roy again with FE:Awakening. He's DLC, but with a pretty different design. He's dual wielding swords now, and I don't think we have one of those in Smash.
Nocturnowl
Member
Well if Starfox has 3 reps I guess 4 for FE isn't too out there with 2 being clone like characters.
Wait, there's a 4th SF character and he's a clone of Fox? Who is he?
Professor Beef
Banned
andross is a clone of fox's dad
Nocturnowl
Member
I'm using cednym's Fire Emblem character theory, 2 clone like characters being Roy and possibly Krom.
Starfox being used as a half assed measure for character reps, 5 games with only 2 truly acclaimed entries getting 3 characters is rather fortunate for it.
but to answer your odd question it's James McCloud
I definitely don't see Krom and Ike co-existing. Krom literally has the same abilities as Ike in FE13 (Aether and Quick Draw), and appears to be quite muscular looking at his official artwork.
I think Roy would stand out more as a character in a three FE character scenario. Perhaps being the medium between a light/quick acrobatic Marth (especially look at Marth's FE13 redesign where he looks particularly like this) and a strong, but slow Ike/Krom.
I'm confused. Roy could coexist as a Marth clone, but Krom couldn't coexist as an Ike clone?
Because Ike and Krom are like literally the same type of character.
you can be big slow with a sword and have completely different movesets. don't let smash bros trick you into thinking otherwise!
But the characters have the exact same special abilities in the games!
Ike wields a heavy broadsword and Krom carries the Falchion. Krom wouldn't be nearly as slow (or powerful) as Ike. Most of Ike's animations would have to be changed, too, because Krom carries his sword differently.
The fact of the matter is that Krom would be just as different from Ike as Roy would be from Marth. From here, it's just a matter of preference in narrowing down the pool of Marth (unique), Ike (unique), Roy (semi-clone), and Krom (semi-clone). Personally, two uniques and one semi-clone makes the most sense to me, and between Krom and Roy, Krom is the more relevant. He's also a newcomer, which the game would desperately need.
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