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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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R

Red Arremer

Member
So, you guys think we'll get another Dojo? Cause I swear to god, that was the best part about the game, the hype building up to it, lol.

Oh, also... Hi Ilpalazzo, you might remember me from SWF (though not with this nickname). :3
 
S

Snakey

Member
hydragonwarrior said:
I always thought the "Add Ridley/Geno!!!" thing was just a meme.
Click to expand...

Ridley was popularly requested since the Melee unveil. Geno's requests for Brawl was pretty much a bandwagon. Even now, Ridley still is one of the most, if not the most, requested newcomer for Smash 4, whereas lots of Mario characters (Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Waluigi) have more requests than Geno.

For veteran franchises (Nintendo franchises that already have a playable character in Smash Bros.), the only iconic and important characters left to put in are:
Ridley
K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Toad

As for franchises that don't have a playable character in Smash Bros., the only ones that compare to the non-retro franchises already with a playable character in Smash Bros. are Punch-Out, Mii, and Animal Crossing; with the last one (AC) being written off as being too pacifist and Miis being a "maybe" in terms of being written off.

Sakurai has publically stated that there is a finite amount of character worthy to step on the field of battle in Smash Bros.

I personally think Miyamoto/EAD's new franchise will offer a character that will be worthy enough to be added to Smash 4.
 
C

cednym

Banned
Snakey said:
I personally think Miyamoto/EAD's new franchise will offer a character that will be worthy enough to be added to Smash 4.
Click to expand...

Is Miyamoto actually working on a new IP, or are you referring to that old interview where he said something along the lines of "it's about time I make a new character"?
 
S

Snakey

Member
cednym said:
Is Miyamoto actually working on a new IP, or are you referring to that old interview where he said something along the lines of "it's about time I make a new character"?
Click to expand...

Miyamoto makes mention of an original title in January 2012:
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/01/06/miyamoto-working-on-an-unannounced-original-game/

"It's been nearly 10 years since I made the Pikmin character, so I feel this is the year where I must at long last make a new character. This is as far as I'll answer today."

http://www.destructoid.com/mario-creator-miyamoto-teases-a-new-game-character-177973.phtml

What is interesting is that Sakurai has said that there have been no new franchises since Pikmin that were worthy of a playable character in Smash Bros. OR had a character that could NOT work within Smash Bros. (examples he used were Nintendogs, Brain Training, and Wii Sports).
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Red Arremer said:
So, you guys think we'll get another Dojo? Cause I swear to god, that was the best part about the game, the hype building up to it, lol.
Click to expand...

Yep, the Dojo was easily the best thing about Brawl. And also, yes it's reasonable to assume there's going to be another Dojo after seeing how helpful it was in building up the hype.
 
G

GamerSoul

Member
Oblivion said:
Yep, the Dojo was easily the best thing about Brawl. And also, yes it's reasonable to assume there's going to be another Dojo after seeing how helpful it was in building up the hype.
Click to expand...

True, I can't for the 5 plus pages of random reactions after a megaton update.

Snakey said:
Ridley was popularly requested since the Melee unveil. Geno's requests for Brawl was pretty much a bandwagon. Even now, Ridley still is one of the most, if not the most, requested newcomer for Smash 4, whereas lots of Mario characters (Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Waluigi) have more requests than Geno.

For veteran franchises (Nintendo franchises that already have a playable character in Smash Bros.), the only iconic and important characters left to put in are:
Ridley
K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Toad

As for franchises that don't have a playable character in Smash Bros., the only ones that compare to the non-retro franchises already with a playable character in Smash Bros. are Punch-Out, Mii, and Animal Crossing; with the last one (AC) being written off as being too pacifist and Miis being a "maybe" in terms of being written off.

Sakurai has publically stated that there is a finite amount of character worthy to step on the field of battle in Smash Bros.

I personally think Miyamoto/EAD's new franchise will offer a character that will be worthy enough to be added to Smash 4.
Click to expand...

Man, you have been sticking to your same predictions ever since I can remember. Maybe this is because of the lack of info talking but I'm starting to believe you in terms of what to expect for the roster. I'm still hoping for Sakurai to still give us more than a few suprises that will keep us guessing wtf will he throw at us next.
 
F

friskykillface

Banned
King K Rool though, that croc deserves to be in, he can be as big as Bowser so size isn't an issue



why no King :(



right b = crown throw




I'll settle for an elite beat agent character, those guys rocked
 
L

Lord_Byron28

Member
friskykillface said:
King K Rool though, that croc deserves to be in, he can be as big as Bowser so size isn't an issue



why no King :(



right b = crown throw




I'll settle for an elite beat agent character, those guys rocked
Click to expand...
I'm so glad k. Rool hasn't been added. I suspect nintendo wants nothing to do with the character since they've swept him under the rug right when rare left.
 
S

SmithnCo

Member
K Rool was in the king of swing series and Sluggers. I think if another DKCR is made they might bring him back to hype it up too, so I could see him getting in Smash.
 
D

DICKS AHOY

Banned
The only DK game I can think of I've played since Rare left that didn't have K. Rool besides Returns is Jungle Beat, and considering all of those characters were made by EAD Tokyo it was a lot more noticeable seeing all of them immediately swept under the rug rather than K. Rool only appearing in... Erm... Every other DK game before DKCR and even a few Mario ones. :X
 
S

Snakey

Member
Lord_Byron28 said:
Yes in low budget, low selling spinoff games outsourced to paon. In my opinion king rool isn't a likely candidate.
Click to expand...

That is what I see is as the main obstacle for both K. Rool and Dixie Kong. They both missed the boat on the biggest DK game since Donkey Kong 64 (Donkey Kong Country Returns). The only appearance of both characters since Brawl was Mario Super Sluggers.

I really hope both of those characters are added since they are among the few important characters for Nintendo's veteran franchises not yet playable.
 
C

cednym

Banned
Astrosanity said:
The only DK game I can think of I've played since Rare left that didn't have K. Rool besides Returns is Jungle Beat
Click to expand...

Which is funny, because those are the only two Donkey Kong games since Rare left that matter. K. Rool has only appeared in minor outsourced spin-offs and party games since Donkey Kong 64.
 
S

Snakey

Member
cednym said:
Which is funny, because those are the only two Donkey Kong games since Rare left that matter. K. Rool has only appeared in minor outsourced spin-offs and party games since Donkey Kong 64.
Click to expand...

K. Rool also managed to become a playable character in Mario Super Slugger.

Dixie Kong actually had a better track record than K. Rool since DK64 in terms of game appearances. Not only did she appear in all of Paon's games (King of Swing, Jungle Climber, Barrel Blast), she was also a playable character in Donkey Kong 2, Donkey Konga 3, Mario Superstar Baseball, Diddy Kong Racing DS, Mario Hoops 3-on-3, and Mario Super Sluggers.

However, she is now in the same boat as K. Rool.
 
S

Snakey

Member
cednym said:
Yeah, which is an outsourced spin-off/party game.
Click to expand...

I thought you only mentioned Paon's games in your post, which was why I added that bit.

I am curious though whether you think K. Rool and/or Dixie Kong will be added to Smash 4, or whether they will be left out.
 
D

DICKS AHOY

Banned
cednym said:
Which is funny, because those are the only two Donkey Kong games since Rare left that matter. K. Rool has only appeared in minor outsourced spin-offs and party games since Donkey Kong 64.
Click to expand...
I think the main problem is in terms of popularity (not making a comment about quality here; I hated DK64 and really dig DKJB, but most people overall did not give a shit about that game) DK after the 90's went into a downward spiral as a series until DKCR. To your average person after the arcade games the only DK games they likely remember are DKC, DK64 and now Returns, which is why as opposed to Jungle Beat (which was practically a reboot, but also didn't get too much mainstream attention) there was quite a bit of drama over Returns having a new cast of villains; as far as they were aware K. Rool had been prominent up until then.

Since DK's now back around to being as popular and being his own separate thing to Mario (hell at this point I'd argue he's more popular than Metroid, which definitely would be a return to the late 90's) and Returns didn't introduce any viable Smash characters, it's not too surprising people are gravitating towards who they see as the main villain of the franchise.

Personally I'd like him to be in but I'm not pretending he's a complete shoe-in (but he IS a popular choice in these fan poll things), nor am I going to be too bothered if he doesn't make the cut. Ridley, Mac, Goroh (shut up) and Mega Man on the other hand...
 
C

cednym

Banned
Snakey said:
I thought you only mentioned Paon's games in your post, which was why I added that bit.

I am curious though whether you think K. Rool and/or Dixie Kong will be added to Smash 4, or whether they will be left out.
Click to expand...

They're definitely both deserving, but I don't think we're going to be seeing either of them. Dixie's inclusion wouldn't surprise me too much, but K. Rool's would. There's no way Sakurai is going to spend two precious newcomer "slots" on forgotten Donkey Kong characters. If he's going to add one, it'll be Dixie Kong. That's my bet.
 
S

Snakey

Member
cednym said:
They're definitely both deserving, but I don't think we're going to be seeing either of them. Dixie's inclusion wouldn't surprise me too much, but K. Rool's would. There's no way Sakurai is going to spend two precious newcomer "slots" on forgotten Donkey Kong characters. If he's going to add one, it'll be Dixie Kong. That's my bet.
Click to expand...

K. Rool is an universally expected character among the Western Smash Bros. fanbase, so this is a rather unorthodox opinion. However, I have a suspicion if Sakurai views those two characters as being "old news", but later learns of the strong demand for a DK newcomer that he would opt for Dixie Kong, because he would at least have some ideas left over from Brawl on how she would work in Smash Bros.

I am still expecting both of those characters to be added in.
 
C

cednym

Banned
Snakey said:
K. Rool is an universally expected character among the Western Smash Bros. fanbase, so this is a rather unorthodox opinion. However, I have a suspicion if Sakurai views those two characters as being "old news", but later learns of the strong demand for a DK newcomer that he would opt for Dixie Kong, because he would at least have some ideas left over from Brawl on how she would work in Smash Bros.

I am still expecting both of those characters to be added in.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it's an unorthodox opinion, but if "expected" characters had any bearing on these rosters, then we would have gotten K. Rool and Ridley in Brawl. The fanbase seems to have very little impact on who gets in and who doesn't. Sonic is the only character who was included in Brawl because of the fans.

I also have this inexplicable feeling that Sakurai doesn't much care for K. Rool. He was a prime candidate for both a boss and an Assist Trophy in Brawl, but he was included as neither. In fact, Donkey Kong is one of the only series in Brawl with playable characters that doesn't have an Assist Trophy at all.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
I think at this point the only pretty much guaranteed character is Ridley; there's likely choices like Mewtwo coming back, or Little Mac, but that's all just speculation. Ridley is the only shoe-in that is left, honestly.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I want a Rhythm Heaven character!

Like say, that girl who always changes outfits. She could have her front smash as "WUBAWUBAWUBAWUBA IS THAT TRUE?"
 
C

cednym

Banned
Red Arremer said:
I think at this point the only pretty much guaranteed character is Ridley; there's likely choices like Mewtwo coming back, or Little Mac, but that's all just speculation. Ridley is the only shoe-in that is left, honestly.
Click to expand...

Ridley and Palutena are the only new characters I'd put money on.

Something that's worth nothing: besides Pit and R.O.B. (retro characters), EVERY Brawl newcomer was relevant when the game was in the planning stages:

Wario - A long overdue icon who exploded in popularity since Melee with the creation of the WarioWare series.
Meta Knight - Also long overdue, appearing consistently in new Kirby games.
Zero Suit Samus - Zero Mission was a year old when Sakurai decided on the roster, and he wanted to increase the amount of women and Metroid characters.
Olimar - A Miyamoto creation; Nintendo's biggest new series on the GameCube.
Lucas - MOTHER 3 was in development, and he was supposed to be in Melee.
Diddy Kong - An overdue icon appearing consistently in DK games.
Pokémon Trainer - An iconic and unique character representing the year-old FireRed and LeafGreen remakes.
King Dedede - Yet another overdue icon.
Lucario - The face of Diamond and Pearl, which were in development at the time.
Ike - Starred in both Path of Radiance and the in-development Radiant Dawn.
Toon Link - Starred in Wind Waker, the first of two major Zelda releases since Melee.
Wolf - Appeared in the then-new Star Fox: Assault and the in-development Star Fox Command.

Characters like K. Rool don't quite fit those parameters for SSB4.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Same goes for Melee, actually. Aside from G&W and Ice Climbers, all the newcomers were relevant around the time...
Bowser and Peach - duh
Young Link - Majora's Mask got released just a year or so prior to SSBM
Zelda/Sheik - Although OoT was released several years before, Zelda is an iconic character, and Sheik was incredibly popular at the time (I also remember Sakurai saying he wanted a transforming character)
Ganondorf - Iconic villain of the Zelda series past OoT
Mewtwo - One of the most known legendary (don't smack me if he isn't legendary D: ) pokemon, also sorta villainous
Pichu - Representation of the most recent Pokemon game back then (Gold/Silver)
Roy - Advertised for the new and upcoming Fire Emblem game for the GBA
Marth - Was put in because of retro (he was the first FE lord), so not only the most recent lord is in the game
Dr. Mario - Dr. Mario 64 was only recently released before Melee
Falco - Starfox Adventures was in development, so he might've been put in because of that, but I am not certain on this one.
 
C

cednym

Banned
Melee's roster was decided in 1999, so characters like Sheik and Falco were more relevant than you think. Even Marth had appeared only five years prior to that -- the equivalent of a character last appearing in 2007 getting into SSB4.
 
S

Snakey

Member
cednym said:
Ridley and Palutena are the only new characters I'd put money on.

Characters like K. Rool don't quite fit those parameters for SSB4.
Click to expand...

I know you think of Toad as among the the few iconic/important characters from veteran Nintendo series left, but what do you actually think about the prospects of the Mario series receiving a newcomer in Smash 4?

I think the Mario series despite receiving now newcomer in Brawl, received more content than other series in other ways. It received several new items, six stages (double the amount of any other series), three Assist Trophies (every other series only received one), and one boss.

I think if the Mario series does not receive a newcomer in Smash 4, the series will continue to have more content than other series in terms of stages, new items, and Assist Trophies.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
cednym said:
Melee's roster was decided in 1999, so characters like Sheik and Falco were more relevant than you think. Even Marth had appeared only five years prior to that -- the equivalent of a character last appearing in 2007 getting into SSB4.
Click to expand...

Right. I forgot about the development time. At that point, Star Fox 64 and OoT were actually pretty recent. Thanks for reminding me of that.

Snakey said:
I know you think of Toad as among the the few iconic/important characters from veteran Nintendo series left, but what do you actually think about the prospects of the Mario series receiving a newcomer in Smash 4?

I think the Mario series despite receiving now newcomer in Brawl, received more content than other series in other ways. It received several new items, six stages (double the amount of any other series), three Assist Trophies (every other series only received one), and one boss.

I think if the Mario series does not receive a newcomer in Smash 4, the series will continue to have more content than other series in terms of stages, new items, and Assist Trophies.
Click to expand...

I actually would not be surprised if Rosalina would be introduced as the newcomer. She's been getting quite a nice bit of exposure outside of the 2 Galaxy games, and seems to be quite popular among the fanbase. Alternatively, Bowser Jr. seems like a very possible choice.
I don't think Toad has that many chances, to be quite honest, I think Sakurai is content in having him as Peach's counter move, otherwise he would've had 2 games in which he could (and should) have appeared as playable.

But yes, as usual, Mario will have a LOT of things to display in terms of stages and fluff, but so will Pokemon, Zelda. I mean, those are the Big 3.
 
S

Snakey

Member
I am not sure if this means anything, but New Super Mario Bros. Wii is the second highest selling home console game OF ALL TIME in Japan. The highest selling is the original Super Mario Bros.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Snakey said:
I am not sure if this means anything, but New Super Mario Bros. Wii is the second highest selling home console game OF ALL TIME in Japan. The highest selling is the original Super Mario Bros.
Click to expand...

I don't think sales matter at all.
However, if NSMB2 is any indication, I would say a character from there could be anticipated.
 
C

cednym

Banned
Snakey said:
I know you think of Toad as among the the few iconic/important characters from veteran Nintendo series left, but what do you actually think about the prospects of the Mario series receiving a newcomer in Smash 4?

I think the Mario series despite receiving now newcomer in Brawl, received more content than other series in other ways. It received several new items, six stages (double the amount of any other series), three Assist Trophies (every other series only received one), and one boss.

I think if the Mario series does not receive a newcomer in Smash 4, the series will continue to have more content than other series in terms of stages, new items, and Assist Trophies.
Click to expand...

Toad's the most deserving Mario newcomer, but I also think he's one of the least likely. Sakurai is probably content with keeping him as Toad's standard special. It's not like anything exciting has happened with Toad since Brawl that would prompt Sakurai to make a playable character out of him.

The Smash Bros. fanbase is divided on him, but I think Paper Mario is the most likely Mario newcomer. His series has doubled in size since Brawl, and he's also the main character of his series, which actually carries a ton of weight.

The second possibility would be Bowser Jr. As of Brawl's planning period, his only major appearance was in Sunshine. Since then, he's had important roles in New Super Mario Bros., Galaxy, NSMB Wii, and Galaxy 2.

But yeah, I think Paper Mario is the more likely of the two. Rosalina will probably be an Assist Trophy.
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Snakey said:
Donkey Kong 2, Donkey Konga 3.
Click to expand...

So so disappointed that DK's Bongos didn't play the Donkey Konga theme but instead we got another rendition of Island Swing. I really wanted the last five beats to be "DON KEY KON GA HUH!"
 
B

Black-Wind

Member
Red Arremer said:
I actually would not be surprised if Rosalina would be introduced as the newcomer. She's been getting quite a nice bit of exposure outside of the 2 Galaxy games, and seems to be quite popular among the fanbase.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

But I really don't think Mario is getting anymore characters.

And find it interesting that cednym is so dead-set on the thought that PT got in because RG were remade around that time. As I said, I would love for remakes to have some level of impact seeing as that would just make Impa all the more relevant but I'm not the least bit convinced that that's the case (and I feel SS is enough for her so w/e).

But if it were the case ... I wonder if PT and the starters would be the Protags and Pokemon from w/e the latest remake is for Smash4. I really believe that some characters are added in to fill "temp relevance spots" and are less likely to return than the new character that can fill that slot (Roy to Ike for example. And I feel Lucario is in that slot to and that they will pick a 6th gen Pokemon over bringing him back).

If PT is in and is the way he is because of some remake of the first gen games and NOT because that's the most well recognized and loved set of starters and protag then I could see Sakurai replacing him with a new PT from w/e is the latest remakes.
 
K

KevinCow

Banned
A Rhythm Heaven character could be Game & Watch levels of nonsense. You could play as a more common character like the monkey or the creature in the tutorial or something, and summon other characters for all your moves. Forward Smash could summon the Wrestler to appear and do a punch, up B could summon the seesaw guy to appear and launch you off the other end of his seesaw stuff like that.

Maybe they could make the moves go to the beat of the music and give them a bonus if you press the button again at the right time. Like you press up B, seesaw guy appears. On the next beat, he jumps into the air, and on the beat after that, he slams down. If you press B again right as he slams down, you launch higher.
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Just be careful not to mention characters from the Wii game since that's not out in Europe yet. Some people may still like a surprise. cough.
 
T

Triton55

Member
An argument for another Mario character would be the Mario series huge resurgence since NSMB (released right in the middle of Brawl's dev period, although it did manage to get its music in). Since 2006, we've received 2 insanely acclaimed 3D platformers with great sales, 2 pretty well acclaimed 2D platformers with insane sales, Mario Kart Wii + Mario & Sonic selling a ton, and Mario almost single-handedly saving the 3DS with Kart 7 and 3D Land.

I'd personally most prefer Paper Mario as a new character, but recent releases would point to Toad, Bowser Jr, or Rosalina.
 
K

KevinCow

Banned
If Toad was gonna get in, he'd be in by now.

If Bowser Jr. was gonna get in, he'd have gotten into Brawl. I think Sakurai, unlike the rest of Nintendo, is actually aware of the fact that he's not a popular character.

Rosalina, maybe.

I still say Fawful or Paper Mario to represent the Mario RPGs.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
KevinCow said:
If Toad was gonna get in, he'd be in by now.

If Bowser Jr. was gonna get in, he'd have gotten into Brawl. I think Sakurai, unlike the rest of Nintendo, is actually aware of the fact that he's not a popular character.

Rosalina, maybe.

I still say Fawful or Paper Mario to represent the Mario RPGs.
Click to expand...

Meh, I don't like Fawful, and I'm not a big fan of the Paper Mario series to begin with, so I don't really care much for having its characters introduced. But I can see that it is possible.

Also, agreed on Toad, and the maybe for Rosalina - as said, she's gotten quite a bit of exposure lately, so she should definitely be considered a candidate. Waluigi, (as much as it pains me to say it cause there's much more deserving characters than him) is probably another name that should be considered, seeing how he was an AT in Brawl.

However, I have to sincerely disagree with you regarding Bowser Jr. - prior to Brawl, he only had one real main game, Sunshine, and just a handful of spin-offs. There was nothing that would have hinted towards Bowser Jr. actually becoming one of the biggest antagonists in pretty much every main installment of the Mario series after Sunshine, and almost all spin-offs. Not saying that I would want him over other choices (which I don't), but out of all characters not named Toad he is currently the biggest Mario character after the current 4 characters. Unless they go for generic enemies like Koopa Troopa, which I honestly doubt.
 
K

KevinCow

Banned
Red Arremer said:
However, I have to sincerely disagree with you regarding Bowser Jr. - prior to Brawl, he only had one real main game, Sunshine, and just a handful of spin-offs.
Click to expand...

There were three Mario platformers between Melee and Brawl: Sunshine, NSMB, and Galaxy. Bowser Jr. was a major antagonist in all three of them.

I was totally expecting him to be in Brawl, and was kinda surprised that he wasn't.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
KevinCow said:
There were three Mario platformers between Melee and Brawl: Sunshine, NSMB, and Galaxy. Bowser Jr. was a major antagonist in all three of them.

I was totally expecting him to be in Brawl, and was kinda surprised that he wasn't.
Click to expand...

Brawl roster was decided before Galaxy and NSMB were released (or at least shortly after NSMB's release). He's also in NSMBW and Galaxy 2, and likely to reappear in NSMB2. He also was in every single spin-off save Mario Kart 7 (which has odd character choices to begin with, so that doesn't say much - he is in the Mario & Sonic at the Olympics games tho). In short, he's still at large, and his chances have not lowered simply because he wasn't included in Brawl, unlike, say, the aforementioned K. Rool or Dixie Kong who haven't been in any DK or Mario game after Brawl (except Mario Sluggers).

Whom else other than Toad would you say has played any other major role in the Mario series that is even remotely comparable to BJ?
 
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