Red Arremer
Member
lol. Do you think Goomba (or, really, any of the generic enemies) has a chance to get in?
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lol. Do you think Goomba (or, really, any of the generic enemies) has a chance to get in?
Heh.
BJ.
Anyway, even though those games were released after Brawl's roster was finalized, they were in development while they were deciding who to put in, and I'm sure Sakurai and co. had access to the people making the upcoming games in each series. They knew that Bowser Jr. was set to be a major character in the Mario series, and they still decided not to go with him. I guess they could change their mind this time around, but I don't really expect them to.
The only new Mario characters I'd really be cool with are Paper Mario, Fawful, or Rosalina.
In fact, I'll go ahead and make that post.
Characters from returning series that I'd be cool with getting in:
- Mario: Paper Mario, Fawful, Rosalina
- Yoshi: None, but Poochy as an assist trophy
- DK: Dixie, K. Rool
- Wario: Mona, Jimmy, or 9-Volt; Mona and Jimmy because they're usually the most prominent non-Wario characters, and 9-Volt because he could use Nintendo hardware in his moves, which would fit pretty perfectly in a Smash Bros. game. Ashley is horrible, and you're horrible if you think she's not horrible.
- Zelda: Tingle, but with his own franchise symbol.
- Metroid: Ridley. Duh.
- Kirby: Prince Fluff
- Star Fox: None. Star Fox doesn't need a fourth character. I honestly wouldn't care if they even dropped one of the existing ones.
- Pokemon: I honestly don't know enough about Pokemon to say, but I guess I wouldn't mind if one from Black & White or whatever the next generation will be gets in.
- F-Zero: Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow. I think F-Zero is in a weird situation where it's the only Smash 64 series that doesn't have a second character, but it's also not really relevant enough today to totally justify one. The Black Shadow/Ganondorf swap seems like the most reasonable way to appease both F-Zero and Zelda fans.
- Earthbound: None. It's lucky to have two.
- Fire Emblem: Krome, I guess? Seems reasonable to make the newest lord playable.
- Kid Icarus: Palutena, Medusa,
- The rest: None
And I'd go with no more than 1 new character from each series, and at least the same number of characters from new series.
BJ.
Anyway, even though those games were released after Brawl's roster was finalized, they were in development while they were deciding who to put in, and I'm sure Sakurai and co. had access to the people making the upcoming games in each series. They knew that Bowser Jr. was set to be a major character in the Mario series, and they still decided not to go with him. I guess they could change their mind this time around, but I don't really expect them to.
The only new Mario characters I'd really be cool with are Paper Mario, Fawful, or Rosalina.
In fact, I'll go ahead and make that post.
Characters from returning series that I'd be cool with getting in:
- Mario: Paper Mario, Fawful, Rosalina
- Yoshi: None, but Poochy as an assist trophy
- DK: Dixie, K. Rool
- Wario: Mona, Jimmy, or 9-Volt; Mona and Jimmy because they're usually the most prominent non-Wario characters, and 9-Volt because he could use Nintendo hardware in his moves, which would fit pretty perfectly in a Smash Bros. game. Ashley is horrible, and you're horrible if you think she's not horrible.
- Zelda: Tingle, but with his own franchise symbol.
- Metroid: Ridley. Duh.
- Kirby: Prince Fluff
- Star Fox: None. Star Fox doesn't need a fourth character. I honestly wouldn't care if they even dropped one of the existing ones.
- Pokemon: I honestly don't know enough about Pokemon to say, but I guess I wouldn't mind if one from Black & White or whatever the next generation will be gets in.
- F-Zero: Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow. I think F-Zero is in a weird situation where it's the only Smash 64 series that doesn't have a second character, but it's also not really relevant enough today to totally justify one. The Black Shadow/Ganondorf swap seems like the most reasonable way to appease both F-Zero and Zelda fans.
- Earthbound: None. It's lucky to have two.
- Fire Emblem: Krome, I guess? Seems reasonable to make the newest lord playable.
- Kid Icarus: Palutena, Medusa,
Hades
And I'd go with no more than 1 new character from each series, and at least the same number of characters from new series.
Even though that was a joke, in some ways a Goomba would be the ultimate final unlockable character. Just give it a headband and it will be Ultimate Fighting Goomba!
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I'd say F-Zero world-wide even now after having nothing since 2004 is still more well known than Mother though. I know it's not super likely but I really do think Samurai Goroh or if it comes down to it, redesigning Ganondorf and giving his old moveset to Black Shadow are long overdue. F-Zero has this really unique style to it and after how amazing GX was I don't get how Nintendo could just drop the series like they did (why should a shitty tv show nobody cared about be the barometer for whether people are still interested in a racing videogame series?) Also Goombella honestly could work as a rep for both Goombas and the RPG sub-series, though I'm not pretending the idea isn't beyond retarded :V
Also I don't think Ashley is horrible
Also I don't think Ashley is horrible
but Mona or Captain Syrup make a million times more sense
Red Arremer
Member
I think I would laugh and cry at the same time if that happened. Laugh at the genius and badassness, cry because I got severely trolled.
Also, I'd prefer Captain Syrup over any of the WarioWare cast, to be frank.
Red Arremer
Member
Shy Guy, imo.
fordianslip
Neo Member
I'd argue from a pure design standpoint, Paper Mario would make for a very intriguing character. His look and presentation would stand him out from the rest of the SSB roster alone. Plus his animations and manuevers could be very interesting.
Same reasoning for why I'd say Dixie Kong gets in over K. Rool. I'm pretty sure her hair whip attack could be a very unique and interesting addition to the series. Plus she has a built in double jump with her propeller ponytails.
Little Mac would be awesome to have, but I doubt it. He'd be a generic puncher. Be interesting to see what they could do to make him stand out. Pretty simple though, charged punch would be his star punch, could go in any direction.
I really wanna see Mega Man. It'd be nice if his powers turned him different colors as he used them. Say he shot Cut Man's projectile cutter, he turns red. Lots of different powers to choose from though. That'd take a lot of cross promotional work with Capcom.
I'd love to see someone from Castlevania. What about someone from a retroly popular series that hasn't been considered, like say, one of the Battletoads? One or both of the main characters from Double Dragon? Even though I think he's Xbox exclusive now, Ninja Gaiden's Ryu Hayabusa would be killer.
I don't know where you people are considering Smash's roster full without potential for expansion. There's a plethora of potential characters out there from other companies that could easily be mined. Hell, what about Tails? What about Dr. Robotnik? Shadow? Knuckles? That's from a single series that used to be as popular and important as the Mario franchise.
I'd still love to see Phoenix Wright in, even if he has to be an assist trophy.
Same reasoning for why I'd say Dixie Kong gets in over K. Rool. I'm pretty sure her hair whip attack could be a very unique and interesting addition to the series. Plus she has a built in double jump with her propeller ponytails.
Little Mac would be awesome to have, but I doubt it. He'd be a generic puncher. Be interesting to see what they could do to make him stand out. Pretty simple though, charged punch would be his star punch, could go in any direction.
I really wanna see Mega Man. It'd be nice if his powers turned him different colors as he used them. Say he shot Cut Man's projectile cutter, he turns red. Lots of different powers to choose from though. That'd take a lot of cross promotional work with Capcom.
I'd love to see someone from Castlevania. What about someone from a retroly popular series that hasn't been considered, like say, one of the Battletoads? One or both of the main characters from Double Dragon? Even though I think he's Xbox exclusive now, Ninja Gaiden's Ryu Hayabusa would be killer.
I don't know where you people are considering Smash's roster full without potential for expansion. There's a plethora of potential characters out there from other companies that could easily be mined. Hell, what about Tails? What about Dr. Robotnik? Shadow? Knuckles? That's from a single series that used to be as popular and important as the Mario franchise.
I'd still love to see Phoenix Wright in, even if he has to be an assist trophy.
InfiniDragon
Member
Koopa Troopa. They put him in Mario Kart, after all. XD
But seriously, no not really.
Red Arremer
Member
Queen Bee/Honey Queen for SSB4 confirmed.
Believe.
I honestly would not mind her at all, though. In fact, she could be a fucking awesome concept with honey drips slowing down opponents, and minion bees getting in your grill.
I honestly don't think a generic enemy would be included as playable character. There's only 1 franchise that can do that without remorse, which is Pokemon. And if Toad were introduced as playable character, although there there is the character version - Toad the Toad, basically.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Or maybe it's Barista (the dog) because he's like, totally everywhere. Or maybe the monkey.
Their games also works as stages, like Warioware! Imagine it being based on any Remix stages!
You guys will get the option for Japanese and English... not that I care of course, since English cat >>>>>>>>>>> Japanese cat.
Battletoads are owned by Rare, and therefore owned by Microsoft.
Ryu Hayabusa isn't Xbox exclusive at all. He's been in Ninja Gaiden and Dead or Alive games on the PS3, DS, 3DS, Vita, and Ninja Gaiden 3 is even coming to the Wii U. I wouldn't say he's likely, but I'd say he has something resembling a chance after Nintendo teamed up with Team Ninja for Other M.
Battletoads is wayyyyy too much of a stretch. Same to Double Dragon. And I don't think we should get anymore Sonic characters. Sonic is honestly enough since third party and all, IMHO. Also, ew no Shadow!
I would still kill for Robotnik however...
You fulfil the criteria for unlocking the final character. WARNING! CHALLENGER APPROACHING! Your character jumps on to a stage and there it is, a lowly Goomba. Cue zoom in and freeze frame. GOOMBA the border states and then a cutscene starts. For this isn't just any Goomba, this is the first Goomba of World 1-1. A montage of all his training since his defeat begins to play with dramatic training music. Then we cut back to the present day and a headband appears on its head and his eyes are engulfed in fire. Ready... GO!
You then you realise you just suffered the most humiliating defeat since fighting Glass Joe again in Punch-Out.
You then you realise you just suffered the most humiliating defeat since fighting Glass Joe again in Punch-Out.
Red Arremer
Member
You guys think they'll have some cross-port BS going on? Like, 3DS or Wii U specific characters and the likes, and you can only unlock them by connecting the 2 systems together?
I was at a Brawl tournament this past weekend, and was reminded how dull it is to watch Final Destination and Battlefield over and over again. Of course, I implemented my own solution by never agreeing to Final Destination for the first match and counter-picking Brinstar every time I lost (which was most of the time).
So, on top of my previous suggestion of a Stage Hazard Switch so the game can have more viable tourney stages without requiring more work or getting rid of the crazy stages, I came up with another suggestion so that, when people inevitably wind up picking Final Destination and Battlefield all the time anyway, we could at least get some variety in the music and visuals:
When you pick BF or FD, instead of floating in a generic void, it floats through one other randomly selected stage in the game. Maybe it actually flies around like in Isle Delfino or the Halberd but without landing, maybe it just replaces the floating platforms in Norfair or something, or maybe it sits in front of the stage. Either way, it would play identically: ceiling and walls the same distance away from the platform, same physics, no hazards. We'd just have some welcome variety in graphics and music.
So, on top of my previous suggestion of a Stage Hazard Switch so the game can have more viable tourney stages without requiring more work or getting rid of the crazy stages, I came up with another suggestion so that, when people inevitably wind up picking Final Destination and Battlefield all the time anyway, we could at least get some variety in the music and visuals:
When you pick BF or FD, instead of floating in a generic void, it floats through one other randomly selected stage in the game. Maybe it actually flies around like in Isle Delfino or the Halberd but without landing, maybe it just replaces the floating platforms in Norfair or something, or maybe it sits in front of the stage. Either way, it would play identically: ceiling and walls the same distance away from the platform, same physics, no hazards. We'd just have some welcome variety in graphics and music.
Red Arremer
Member
Ah yes, competitive Brawl. I've been having a hard time keeping up the charade of it being a viable tournament game; it really does not compare to other fighting games. If it was just a tad faster, but the sluggish gameplay is really boring to play and watch (on high level), I have to admit. I really hope that SSB4 is gonna get balanced better and is a bit quicker. And preferably not as stalling-heavy as Brawl.
As for the stages; custom backgrounds/music actually sounds like a terrific idea, and I would totally support that cause.
Add hazards to FD. Make the whole stage flip. Just for the reaction online that would be hilarious.
I much prefer BF as a neutral stage. You need platforms in smash. Also the look of the stage in Brawl is so much nicer than FDs. Hope they keep the more natural look rather than the space age look of Melee's.
I still feel tourney players just need to learn how to play well on every stage.
I much prefer BF as a neutral stage. You need platforms in smash. Also the look of the stage in Brawl is so much nicer than FDs. Hope they keep the more natural look rather than the space age look of Melee's.
I still feel tourney players just need to learn how to play well on every stage.
Red Arremer
Member
I agree, however, there's certain stages that simply add too much randomness (e.g. WarioWare with its rewards), or where certain characters/tactics simply have far too much advantage to be allowed (e.g. stages with walls or walk-offs allowing King Dedede to chaingrab everyone into oblivion, or the HUGE stages where fast characters like Sonic can simply circle around and wait for that Ganondorf to catch up before running away again).
There's stages banned, however, that I feel are perfectly viable for tournaments, just that they're not liked by the tournament crowd.
Okay. Good for you.
Other people clearly enjoy playing and watching it, though, considering they're still holding tournaments with pretty decent turnouts four years later.
So hey. Maybe your opinion doesn't matter?
Red Arremer
Member
Maybe it doesn't matter, but I still am allowed to express it, no?
Actually, I would put most blame on the really disappointing community over here in my country. I've tried to pull up a tournament scene, but the players let me down a shitload of times - of course while losing a ton of money - so I kinda gave up, and lost interest in the game itself.
Hey, if you're not interested in it, whatever.
I just hate seeing the "lol smash isn't deep enough to be competitive, REAL fighting games are so much deeper" line.
It was stupid bullshit before '08 when they were talking about Melee, it was stupid bullshit when people said it about Brawl in '08, and it continues to be stupid bullshit today.
It's even worse when the punchline is, "because brawl sucks and MELEE is soooooo much better and more competitive!!!!!" What, do you not realize that you're saying the exact same thing about Brawl that you've often gotten mad at the fighting game community for saying about Melee?
People play it competitively in tournaments, ipso facto, it is a viable competitive tournament game.
I just hate seeing the "lol smash isn't deep enough to be competitive, REAL fighting games are so much deeper" line.
It was stupid bullshit before '08 when they were talking about Melee, it was stupid bullshit when people said it about Brawl in '08, and it continues to be stupid bullshit today.
It's even worse when the punchline is, "because brawl sucks and MELEE is soooooo much better and more competitive!!!!!" What, do you not realize that you're saying the exact same thing about Brawl that you've often gotten mad at the fighting game community for saying about Melee?
People play it competitively in tournaments, ipso facto, it is a viable competitive tournament game.
Red Arremer
Member
I don't think Melee is any more tournament viable than Brawl.
And I'm not saying that Brawl lacks competitive depth, either, quite the contrary, the platforming part of the game makes it really outstandingly interesting in terms of concept.
I am also well aware that there's still a lot of tournaments and a lot of money flowing through with Smash, and that it's going very strong still.
However, the real issue I have is the fucked up balancing (to the point where the tournament hosts found it necessary to ban a character), and the severe lack of support for tournaments. You see Capcom and Namco supporting the shit out of tournaments and showing new stuff off there, but Nintendo doesn't even acknowledge them in the slightest. In fact, I have some statement from Nintendo in the back of my head where they said that they don't want Smash being played in tourneys - might've been Sakurai himself. Melee is not much better in that regard.
Don't get me wrong, though, I have been involved heavily with Brawl after its release up to 2011, and am still a more or less member of the BBR (if you know what that is).
It's just that other games are just... so much better for tourney play.
And I'm not saying that Brawl lacks competitive depth, either, quite the contrary, the platforming part of the game makes it really outstandingly interesting in terms of concept.
I am also well aware that there's still a lot of tournaments and a lot of money flowing through with Smash, and that it's going very strong still.
However, the real issue I have is the fucked up balancing (to the point where the tournament hosts found it necessary to ban a character), and the severe lack of support for tournaments. You see Capcom and Namco supporting the shit out of tournaments and showing new stuff off there, but Nintendo doesn't even acknowledge them in the slightest. In fact, I have some statement from Nintendo in the back of my head where they said that they don't want Smash being played in tourneys - might've been Sakurai himself. Melee is not much better in that regard.
Don't get me wrong, though, I have been involved heavily with Brawl after its release up to 2011, and am still a more or less member of the BBR (if you know what that is).
It's just that other games are just... so much better for tourney play.
Anything can be made into a tournament game so it is rather silly to say a game isn't suitable for tournaments. Smash however seems to have developed this odd divide where only one party can be satisfied; those who want to make it more suitable for tournaments and those who don't. It's an odd case where a game filled with options has a fanbase who would rather they are removed in order to please just their playstyle. Unfortunately the vocal minority of pro tourney players haven't worked out that more options will automatically favour the party side of Smash. When you start banning stages you can't suddenly complain that the party players have more stages to choose from. And the vocal minority of party players need to realise that Brawl isn't a strange connected hivemind and once someone turns all items off everyone's copy reflects these changes. Options are the key. Options options options.
Red Arremer
Member
Absolutely agreed with that. Originally, the Melee crowd were the ones who initially set up the rules for Brawl, so it was pretty much a Melee ruleset for this entirely different game, and that ruleset has been kept up until now with just minor changes. Only a very little part of hosts and such are willing to experiment with things like new stages (including custom ones), certain items, and so on.
Sadly, most tournament players also are heavily opposed to these things, so attempts to make more stages available, or add items into gameplay are usually encountered with heavy resistance. I saw it myself, I tried to have a "liberal" ruleset with some more controversial stages being allowed, but the backlash was so big that I caved in and took the standard ruleset.
Sadly, most tournament players also are heavily opposed to these things, so attempts to make more stages available, or add items into gameplay are usually encountered with heavy resistance. I saw it myself, I tried to have a "liberal" ruleset with some more controversial stages being allowed, but the backlash was so big that I caved in and took the standard ruleset.
See, I don't think that's the case. I think you can make a game that satisfies both crowds without sacrificing either one. Stuff like my Stage Hazard Switch idea: satisfies the tourney players by being able to turn off the main random factor that disqualifies most stages, while they can still make the stages as crazy as they want. You could add plenty of intricacies to the core gameplay without turning it into some inaccessible technical monstrosity. Plenty of people play and enjoy Street Fighter without knowing how to FADC into their Ultra. And I think a nice balance between Brawl's floatiness and Melee's speed would please fans of both games.
It doesn't have to be a competitive game or a party game. It can be both.
Brawl is weird because there are some things, like the way items and stage hazards are way more ridiculous than the ones in Melee (which is kind of annoying for me personally, because I liked playing with items in Melee, but they're way too much for even me in Brawl), and tripping, and the way you can't play 1-on-1 stock randoms with no items online, that feel like he just said, "Man, screw the competitive scene, I'm making this a ridiculous party game!" But then, he added some weirdly technical techniques like the footstool hop and that weird turning grab that most people won't ever know about, and while there are a few exceptions, some thought clearly went into the character balance. So I don't even know.
Red Arremer
Member
I think we both have a very similar sentiment, KevinCow, just express it differently. Maybe I'm just too negative about Brawl cause of my experiences. =P
But all the things you suggested, I support, and I completely agree with most of your conclusions. I would also add the ridiculous netcoding.
But all the things you suggested, I support, and I completely agree with most of your conclusions. I would also add the ridiculous netcoding.
This is how I see it:
Ruby/Sapphire (November 2002) - Plusle & Minun [planned, but didn't make the cut]
FireRed/LeafGreen (January 2004) - Pokémon Trainer
Emerald (September 2004) - Rayquaza (boss)
Diamond/Pearl (September 2006) - Lucario
There's a major representative from every Pokémon installment since Melee. You're playing down their importance as though they're just ports or something, but FireRed and LeafGreen were much-hyped games with features that the original Red and Blue didn't have. They were a big deal when they came out.
That was what I was trying to say. The game itself has options to satisfy both. It is the fanbase, especially the extremes of both that seem to want to remove these options in order to satisfy only themselves. Even worse is when its a case of wanting features to ruin it for the other half.
Shadow Hog
Member
Actually, Tails might be interesting, considering he has two spinoff games all to himself that could be mined for move ideas, not to mention his playable appearances in the mainline games. I can't say as I'm too inclined to actually map out a moveset, because I'm not especially good at that sort of thing, but his arsenal is actually pretty damn big:
- He can fly with his tails, as per pretty much every appearance of his since Sonic 2
- He has the ability to tail whip, as per SA1
- He has rings that he can toss around to attack or grab things before boomeranging back to him, as per Tails SkyPatrol
- He has a wide variety of bombs, as per Tails Adventures; standard black bombs for a typical point-blank explosion, remote bombs for more controlled explosions (although they're far more obvious than Snake's remote-controlled explosives) or napalm bombs for a Rondo of Blood Holy Water-style wave of fire on the ground. (He also has fake ring box bombs, as per Heroes and 2K6, but those are dumb. Really dumb. The less said about them, the better.)
- He has a hammer for bashing things' heads in, as per Tails Adventures (before Amy did, even)
- He has a friggin' huge Death Star Trooper-esque helmet which he can hide under, which is completely impervious to damage, as per Tails Adventures (I'd imagine this would be a shield replacement or Barrier-like move, and the "completely impervious" would be toned down severely)
- He's had Sonic's Spin Dash move since Sonic 2, although in Tails Adventures, once you get and equip the "Sonic" weapon, he can even do it in mid-air, with the charging state being completely immune to gravity
- With the "Knuckles" weapon in Tails Adventures, he even has a fairly fierce forward punch (although realistically he'd be punching and kicking anyway - this is Smash Bros., after all)
- Has a remote control robot to sneak into small crevasses and obtain things, which is useless in the context of Smash Bros.... until you realize that the same small robot can morph into a submarine with machine guns, anti-air missiles, mines, a giant boring drill on the front, and even rocket boosters that let it fly all over the place. It'd make for an amusing Final Smash.
- Alternatively, for the Final Smash idea, when he finally manages to go Super (as of S3&K), he calls forth four invincible Flickies that home in and smash anything and everything in sight, without him having to lift a finger. Comparatively dull, but the reference would be nifty.
Characters that come to mind:
Isaac
Little Mac
Ridley
Mewtwo
Animal Crossing dude
Palutena
Bowser Jr.
Mii
Waluigi
All of those seem fairly safe. Ridley and Animal Crosser were specifically not included last time though, so I could see them being skipped again for the same reasons. Thing is, that amount already seems like a lot of new comers. I wouldn't be surprised if we got less.
K Rool
Ghirahim
Vaati
Shulk
Megaman
Sukapon
Takamaru
Balloon Fighter
Krystal
Starfy
Prince Fluff
Characters from Rhythm Heave, Pushmo, Sakura Samurai, Rolling Western?
All of these would be cool and maybe a little feasible, but I just don't really see most of them happening. Maybe one of the retro characters. Either licensing issues or characters being too obscure. Don't really know anything about those last series, but they seem interesting.
Isaac
Little Mac
Ridley
Mewtwo
Animal Crossing dude
Palutena
Bowser Jr.
Mii
Waluigi
All of those seem fairly safe. Ridley and Animal Crosser were specifically not included last time though, so I could see them being skipped again for the same reasons. Thing is, that amount already seems like a lot of new comers. I wouldn't be surprised if we got less.
K Rool
Ghirahim
Vaati
Shulk
Megaman
Sukapon
Takamaru
Balloon Fighter
Krystal
Starfy
Prince Fluff
Characters from Rhythm Heave, Pushmo, Sakura Samurai, Rolling Western?
All of these would be cool and maybe a little feasible, but I just don't really see most of them happening. Maybe one of the retro characters. Either licensing issues or characters being too obscure. Don't really know anything about those last series, but they seem interesting.
Shadow Hog
Member
Y'know, getting back to Palutena as a potential fighter, if she's in the roster, what becomes if Pit's Final Smash, where he explicitly calls for her aid? "Goddess Palutena! I require assistance from your holy army in order to vanquish... uh... you!"
a new final smash? he could (kiu final chapter spoilers)
get the three sacred treasures and have his mech suit thing for a period of time.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I suspect that his move set might be changed due to new weapons in his new game. I really hope that they would give his original moveset to Dark Pit.
I think Dark Pit might be "third character"
That would probably become Palutena's Final Smash, and Pit would get a new one. There's no way Pit's staying the same after Uprising.
if she were in the next smash i'd assume her final smash would be her calling in skyworld forces.
Hell, the Three Sacred Treasures themselves could make for a kickass Final Smash or whatever the equivalent will be in Smash 4
assist trophy, you mean? i hope we get a bunch of new ones.
if they added kiu tyle treasure chests to the containers, they could sometimes be mimicuties and attack whoever tries to open them.
Black-Wind
Member
You have ... an interesting point.
Not about importance, I still don't think any mainline Pokemon Game release being anything less than a "big deal" is possible but you DO show that ever gen between Melee and Brawl DID get some rep/ planed rep.
If that trend carries over to Smash 4 I could see some very interesting changes to the Pokemon roster ...
As I said, I could see PT being the Protags and starters from w/e the latest remake is at that time if that line of thinking is correct along with Lucario being cut in favor of a 6th gen mascot ... but I could also see them at least trying to make a 5th gen Pokemon playable now.
If (a big if) the one-addition-per-game trend continues, this is what I could see happening:
Platinum (September 2008) - Giratina as a boss, maybe? If not, Sakurai could pass Lucario returning off as representation for this game.
HeartGold/SoulSilver (September 2009) - Pichu is a veteran and the "mascot" of gen 2, but I don't see it returning. Maybe Sakurai could resurrect his Plusle & Minun idea with Spiky-eared Pichu and Pikachu-colored Pichu? He could also go in the unexpected direction of adding Igglybuff to evolve into Jigglypuff through a happiness mechanic.
Black/White (September 2010) - Either Victini, Zoroark, or Genesect as a playable character. Alternatively, N could be a boss, standing in the background as Zekrom and Reshiram fight at the same time. In which case, the playable character could represent Black 2/White 2 instead.
Black 2/White 2 (June 2012) - Failing the above, we could see the two forms of Kyurem as a boss.
I don't think Pokémon Trainer is going to change; Red is the most iconic player character in the series, and the gen 1 starters are the most memorable ones.
Lord_Byron28
Member
I think if I were to guess the likelihood of more characters these would be my guess:
Mario Series:
Bowser Jr.- seems to be the most likely now that he has definitely taken over as a major series baddie and could also be used to represent the Koopalings.
Paper Mario- there's an interesting gimmick for sure but then again there are a lot more original characters in Mario than a paper version of Mario. I'd say he is the 2nd most likely candidate though.
Toad- everyone still clamors for him but Sakurai has denied him three times by now so chances are low.
Pokemon Series:
Zoroark- Him replacing Lucario seems like a no brainer now that he took his place in just about every way. Likely.
Female Trainer- Perhaps a Female Trainer based on one of the games can carry different Generation starters. For example she could carry one starter from Gen 2, one starter from Gen 3 and one starter from Gen 4. Probably not going to happen.
Villain Trainer- N or one of the other villains could carry other iconic pokemon to the series. Probably not very likely.
Zelda series:
Tingle- I suppose but I his hey day was back in the mid 2000's. Since then Nintendo has been aware of his lack of popularity in the west so I'm afraid he won't be included.
Toon Zelda- was a scrapped character in Brawl. I'm not sure if it's realistic too expect.
Metroid series:
Ridley- not happening but I can't think of any other viable Metroid characters.
DK series:
Dixie- If there were to be another DK representative she would be it but I wouldn't bet money on another one.
K. Rool- I have my doubts.
Wario series: Wario's popularity and series entries have been in the decline in recent years so I'm not sure what would be included.
Starfox:
Krystal- only likely candidate but I doubt there'll be another Starfox representative.
F-zero series:
Black Shadow- I don't see why he hasn't been included yet but there hasn't been a new F-zero since Brawl so I don't think so.
Kid Icarus series:
Palutena- Most likely candidate and one of the few characters I can say 100% will be in the next one.
Medusa- 50-50. Her role in Uprising somewhat complicates things.
Pikmin series:
Louie- When created he was supposed to be the Luigi to Olimar's Mario. He could carry different color Pikmin than Olimar but I think this is all completely dependent on Pikmin 3 and his role.
Other:
Mii- I think they would be candidates but the art style wouldn't mash well.
Tom Nook- I think it'd be interesting but Sakurai dismissed him.
Mike Jones- They could do it for another classic character like Pit but there isn't nearly as much popularity for him as there was Pit.
Balloon Fighters- were characters in consideration for Melee.
Those were the only ones I could think of and personally a lot of them aren't likely, imo. The main issue I see is that most of the viable candidates with large amounts of popularity and games are ones that already have a lot of candidates.
Mario Series:
Bowser Jr.- seems to be the most likely now that he has definitely taken over as a major series baddie and could also be used to represent the Koopalings.
Paper Mario- there's an interesting gimmick for sure but then again there are a lot more original characters in Mario than a paper version of Mario. I'd say he is the 2nd most likely candidate though.
Toad- everyone still clamors for him but Sakurai has denied him three times by now so chances are low.
Pokemon Series:
Zoroark- Him replacing Lucario seems like a no brainer now that he took his place in just about every way. Likely.
Female Trainer- Perhaps a Female Trainer based on one of the games can carry different Generation starters. For example she could carry one starter from Gen 2, one starter from Gen 3 and one starter from Gen 4. Probably not going to happen.
Villain Trainer- N or one of the other villains could carry other iconic pokemon to the series. Probably not very likely.
Zelda series:
Tingle- I suppose but I his hey day was back in the mid 2000's. Since then Nintendo has been aware of his lack of popularity in the west so I'm afraid he won't be included.
Toon Zelda- was a scrapped character in Brawl. I'm not sure if it's realistic too expect.
Metroid series:
Ridley- not happening but I can't think of any other viable Metroid characters.
DK series:
Dixie- If there were to be another DK representative she would be it but I wouldn't bet money on another one.
K. Rool- I have my doubts.
Wario series: Wario's popularity and series entries have been in the decline in recent years so I'm not sure what would be included.
Starfox:
Krystal- only likely candidate but I doubt there'll be another Starfox representative.
F-zero series:
Black Shadow- I don't see why he hasn't been included yet but there hasn't been a new F-zero since Brawl so I don't think so.
Kid Icarus series:
Palutena- Most likely candidate and one of the few characters I can say 100% will be in the next one.
Medusa- 50-50. Her role in Uprising somewhat complicates things.
Pikmin series:
Louie- When created he was supposed to be the Luigi to Olimar's Mario. He could carry different color Pikmin than Olimar but I think this is all completely dependent on Pikmin 3 and his role.
Other:
Mii- I think they would be candidates but the art style wouldn't mash well.
Tom Nook- I think it'd be interesting but Sakurai dismissed him.
Mike Jones- They could do it for another classic character like Pit but there isn't nearly as much popularity for him as there was Pit.
Balloon Fighters- were characters in consideration for Melee.
Those were the only ones I could think of and personally a lot of them aren't likely, imo. The main issue I see is that most of the viable candidates with large amounts of popularity and games are ones that already have a lot of candidates.
friskykillface
Banned
pitoo for new character, trolling clone character but a kid icarus rep
Red Arremer
Member
Why would he not be happening?
Ridley is the only real 100% sure character I can imagine. He's one of the most popular choices, and I don't think that Sakurai was aware of his popularity up until after Brawl's release, where almost every gaming site asked him about Ridley in interviews. In most of them, he said Ridley was too big, but he did say in one that he probably could have included him, but he would have been "very slow". Not to mention that the size argument is a bit silly, I mean... Olimar is about the size of a fingernail in his actual games.
Given how Ridley has been cameo-ing in both 64 and Melee, and has been a boss in Brawl, it's very likely he'll return in SSB4, and as playable character.
And there's other viable Metroid characters; Dark Samus, the playable characters from Metroid Hunters, the hunters from Metroid Prime 3, just to name a few. It's not very likely, but they're still existent and quite possible. I wouldn't even fully count out a Space Pirate, if the Space Pirate game isn't canned (which it apparently is),
and seeing how they reappeared in Kid Icarus Uprising
I was referring to the non-Gundam version/body armor, shield and bow he sports when he goes to fight Medusa.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Sakurai asked for people to submit what characters they wanted in Brawl. He said Ridley was one of the most requested characters and yet he still ignored it and didn't put him in as a character. He obviously had his reasons for doing so. Dark Samus and the playable characters from Metroid hunters will likely never be seen in the Metroid series again which is why I doubt they'd be included because they're not mainstays in the franchise.
Also the Space Pirates in Kid Icarus are completely different. At most they were cute references which Kid Icarus made plenty of spanning plenty series such as LoZ, Brain Age, Nintendogs, etc.
Red Arremer
Member
I still don't think Ridley is out yet. If Nintendo wants to sell SSB4, they need some new heavy hitters, and other than 3rd-party characters, they only have very few heavy hitters left, one of which is Ridley. After him, we'll be going into B- and C-listers.
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
Ridley will be here, you'll see. You'll all see.
Not losing hope despite the disappointment of his absence in Brawl.
Not losing hope despite the disappointment of his absence in Brawl.
- Status