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[Red Arremer]

Luigi is not going anywhere. First of all, he's one of the most iconic characters from the Mario series, and before he would get cut, Bowser and Peach would have to go. Secondly, he's one of the original 12, and at this point, not having the original 12 in a Smash game would be like not having Wolverine in an X-Men related game.

Falco, Ike and Lucario on the other hand are among the most likely to get the boot (although honestly I think Wolf is more likely than Falco since he has 2 games on his record already, and is reasonably popular in both).

But at this point, I am not sure if Sakurai is going to remove any character. And I'm probably the only person who doesn't like roster cuts in crossover games like Smash. Yes, I even was sad about Pichu being gone.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Luigi is not going anywhere. First of all, he's one of the most iconic characters from the Mario series, and before he would get cut, Bowser and Peach would have to go. Secondly, he's one of the original 12, and at this point, not having the original 12 in a Smash game would be like not having Wolverine in an X-Men related game.

Falco, Ike and Lucario on the other hand are among the most likely to get the boot (although honestly I think Wolf is more likely than Falco since he has 2 games on his record already, and is reasonably popular in both).

But at this point, I am not sure if Sakurai is going to remove any character. And I'm probably the only person who doesn't like roster cuts in crossover games like Smash. Yes, I even was sad about Pichu being gone.

That's why I said technically. Original Luigi would got cut and replaced by Luigi Mansion's Luigi with his poltergust 3000. His moveset need to revamped and reflected on his own starred role in Luigi Mansion (1 and 2) instead of Luigication Mario.

I think they should kept Fox's rival/villain in the game, rather than best friend; for story plot wise. We know how awful or weird story plot is more likely to end up as. I thought Brawl had potential to have better story but they dropped their balls.

Fox should kept his Tank Final Smash, and Wolf should get his own Wolfen Final Smash.

Ike would get replaced by Chrome/Crom/Krom, and Lucario... I like him but many people think he would get replaced by Zoroark

Edited: I don't like to see some characters getting cut but I am being realistic after what's happens with Brawl.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

That's why I said technically. Original Luigi would got cut and replaced by Luigi Mansion's Luigi with his poltergust 3000. His moveset need to revamped and reflected on his own starred role in Luigi Mansion (1 and 2) instead of Luigication Mario.

I think they should kept Fox's rival/villain in the game, rather than best friend; for story plot wise. We know how awful or weird story plot is more likely to end up as. I thought Brawl had potential to have better story but they dropped their balls.

 

[Red Arremer]

The only real cut character from Melee is Mewtwo, though, and he was planned up until the last moment, as is evidenced by him having a lot of leftover data in the game.

Toon Link is Young Link, just updated, so I don't count YL as cut.

Dr. Mario and Roy both were planned at one point as well, but dropped - and honestly, I can see why; they used exactly the same moves. Roy was literally the Ken of Smash Bros. (oh hey, my sword uppercut has FAIA), and Dr. Mario's moveset was identical to Mario's save for some very minor changes that a casual player wouldn't even notice.
Pichu was basically a joke character (I think Sakurai himself said so), and was nothing more than a faster and weaker Pikachu that hurt itself.

I can see why Doc, Roy and Pichu would get removed, and obviously they tried to keep Mewtwo in, but didn't have the time to finish him, or ran into problems with Game Freak (I remember Sakurai stating in an interview it's hard to work with them). Heck, could even be licensing issues for all we know. The clones that were different enough (Ganon, Falco, Luigi) actually stayed.

EDIT:
@ScraftyDevil:
You're aware of IntelliHeath's condition, right? I think it's obvious he means "dropped the ball".

Spoiler

I do admit I had to smirk at that typo myself, though.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

EDIT:
@ScraftyDevil:
You're aware of IntelliHeath's condition, right? I think it's obvious he means "dropped the ball".

Spoiler

I do admit I had to smirk at that typo myself, though.

I'm well aware of Heath's condition (I lurked the UMVC3 for months while waiting for my account to be activated) and the sentence actually makes sense in context, but I just couldn't resist the lure of a PokéMeme. I think Heath is a wonderful and knowledgeable individual, and I wasn't trying to make fun of him or anything. I would've made the same joke no matter who the poster was.

 

[Red Arremer]

Good good. Just making sure.
For Heath is a gentleman, and a scholar.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Good good. Just making sure.
For Heath is a gentleman, and a scholar.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Besides people need their Fox/Wolf shipping.

 

[Red Arremer]

Besides people need their Fox/Wolf shipping.

Oh it's not shipping, the sexual tension between them is obvious. Same goes for Fox 'n Falco. :>

 

[IntelliHeath]

I don't get the meme. :B

I'm well aware of Heath's condition (I lurked the UMVC3 for months while waiting for my account to be activated) and the sentence actually makes sense in context, but I just couldn't resist the lure of a PokéMeme. I think Heath is a wonderful and knowledgeable individual, and I wasn't trying to make fun of him or anything. I would've made the same joke no matter who the poster was.

I'm fine with people ribbing me about my english. The situation usually encouraged me to get better with my English. I suck big time. Don't feel bad about it tho.

Good good. Just making sure.
For Heath is a gentleman, and a scholar.

Enough with buttering me up or babying me. (Both of you)

Saved!


Also I don't know why but it didn't quote mewtwo dicussion.

Well, I felt that they are cutting the characters that may have similar movesets so that's why I mention Ike, Lucario, and Falco. Yeah, I was being sarcasm with Luigi because I truly think he should have revamped moveset to honor Luigi's Mansion 2 and they even made the logo for NintendoLand.

Mewtwo = Lucario
Roy = Marth
Young Link = Toon Link
Dr. Mario = Mario
Pichu = Pikachu

What they have in common is that they are sharing similar moveset, so it might lead us to trying to predict what Sakurai is trying to do.

I think Lucas, Wolf and Luigi should have their moveset revamped to suit themselves better.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

I don't get the meme. :B

Read the "Trivia" section of this.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Wait, did you just start the Lucario = Mewtwo part of smash cycle?

 

[IntelliHeath]

Wait, did you just start the Lucario = Mewtwo part of smash cycle?

Oh noes! Seriously, I thought Lucario was inspired by Mewtwo moveset, but not definite clones. The fact that I know Mewtwo was that close to get in SSBB.

However, I have tricky question for everyone. What if GameFreak or Pokemon Company declined the offering/request to put pokemon characters in SSB4? Imagine what would happens.

 

[Ezalc]

I'm surprised that this thread is somehow still alive. I think it's pretty obvious where to go with Smash, but I still think Sakurai is the last person to do it. He doesn't seem to understand what the point of Smash is, he's basically becoming just like Capcom was with MvC3 and it's incredibly sad. He cuts too many corners to save time or budget and it's a shame since this should be the one game where Nintendo should put all of it's effort into it just because of what it is.

 

[KevinCow]

I'm surprised that this thread is somehow still alive. I think it's pretty obvious where to go with Smash, but I still think Sakurai is the last person to do it. He doesn't seem to understand what the point of Smash is, he's basically becoming just like Capcom was with MvC3 and it's incredibly sad. He cuts too many corners to save time or budget and it's a shame since this should be the one game where Nintendo should put all of it's effort into it just because of what it is.

Where do you go with Smash, and why is Sakurai the last person to do it?

 

[Ezalc]

Where do you go with Smash, and why is Sakurai the last person to do it?

Smash should be the glorification of Nintendo as a company and of it's history. Sakurai is the last person to do it because he completely missed this with Brawl, and I'm saying he utterly and completely dropped the ball because he definitely did. He thinks that all people want are bigger rosters, more stages and while that's not a lie it's not exactly that clear cut. I can't comment on the newest Kid Icarus since it never excited me and I don't have a 3DS, so maybe he's changed or learned a bit since then but if he hasn't then the next Smash will probably be as disappointing as Brawl was.

 

[Karsticles]

Smash should be the glorification of Nintendo as a company and of it's history. Sakurai is the last person to do it because he completely missed this with Brawl, and I'm saying he utterly and completely dropped the ball because he definitely did. He thinks that all people want are bigger rosters, more stages and while that's not a lie it's not exactly that clear cut. I can't comment on the newest Kid Icarus since it never excited me and I don't have a 3DS, so maybe he's changed or learned a bit since then but if he hasn't then the next Smash will probably be as disappointing as Brawl was.

I feel like you have some of those things backwards.

 

[Ezalc]

I feel like you have some of those things backwards.

And which things would that be?

 

[KevinCow]

How was Brawl not a glorification of Nintendo as a company and its history?

It had a whole adventure mode that was pretty much just an excuse for a bunch of fanservice cutscenes where Nintendo characters did stuff together.

It had the most ridiculous soundtrack ever. He hired like every video game composer in Japan to collaborate and put together this big love letter to Nintendo music.

It had like a zillion trophies and stickers of some of the most obscure things throughout Nintendo history.

It had playable ROB.

I think he missed the point a little bit with certain franchises like DK and Metroid, but the whole thing as a package was just one bit, "NINTENDO, FUCK YEAH!" The only way it could be any more NINTENDO is if you opened the case, and instead of there being a disc, Mario jumped on your head. That probably wouldn't have sold as well though.

 

[Vidiot]

Bigger roster, more stages.... sounds about right to me. What's not clear cut about it and what else does the game so obviously need?

 

[Ezalc]

How was Brawl not a glorification of Nintendo as a company and its history?

It had a whole adventure mode that was pretty much just an excuse for a bunch of fanservice cutscenes where Nintendo characters did stuff together.

It had the most ridiculous soundtrack ever. He hired like every video game composer in Japan to collaborate and put together this big love letter to Nintendo music.

It had like a zillion trophies and stickers of some of the most obscure things throughout Nintendo history.

It had playable ROB.

I think he missed the point a little bit with certain franchises like DK and Metroid, but the whole thing as a package was just one bit, "NINTENDO, FUCK YEAH!" The only way it could be any more NINTENDO is if you opened the case, and instead of there being a disc, Mario jumped on your head. That probably wouldn't have sold as well though.

Because in the one part where Sakurai wanted to impress people, being the SSE he completely failed for incredibly stupid reasons that would have been very easy to fix.

Two characters being together in a cutscene is good but if it's followed through terrible stages with generic and uninteresting enemies then why slog through such a terrible experience, and a better question is why make such a terrible experience thinking anybody would think it was a good idea?

The soundtrack was, I admit, one of the highlights of Brawl the problem is that such thought was only applied to the music and not everywhere else.

Like I said before, trophies and stickers only go so far you need to glorify it in all kinds of ways not just side distractions.

R.O.B. being included over Sukapon is still something I can't understand, but what was worse was his over-inflated importance especially in the "plot". Not saying he was a bad choice, there are many others that would have been worse, but he wasn't the best. Either way, he's the token new retro character but even then he was one character and one character is too low a number for a series like Smash.

But it wasn't, it was like Capcom, glorifying the same few franchises that it continues to rely on. It needs to increase interest in others, Mario and Zelda isn't the only thing at Nintendo. Lazy cookie-cutter clones and cut corners shouldn't be tolerated and yet people want things like Pichu back? Why what's the point? Why waste time and energy on that, give us somebody else, somebody forgotten or somebody who's not well known. Don't give me a pointless clone I'll never use especially one that could easily be an alternate costume. I want to see new things, experience new characters or find out about old and obscure characters. It could be more Nintendo, but it wasn't and that's why it was a disappointment.

Bigger roster, more stages.... sounds about right to me. What's not clear cut about it and what else does the game so obviously need?

Did you think MvC3 had a good roster? Because that's exactly why it's not clear cut.

 

[Haly]

What hardcore Smash fans really want: For Sakurai or whoever to treat Smash as a competitive game.

Doing so would not harm its accessibility at all. The control schemes and basic movelists are still as easy to grasp as ever, they would just be balanced relative to other movelists.

 

[Ezalc]

What hardcore Smash fans really want: For Sakurai or whoever to treat Smash as a competitive game.

Doing so would not harm its accessibility at all. The control schemes and basic movelists are still as easy to grasp as ever, they would just be balanced relative to other movelists.

I never said I wanted this at all. I never could wavedash or any of that stuff, I just want a fun Nintendo fighting game that shows all sides of Nintendo and not the limited tunnel that Sakurai seemed to be looking through.

 

[cednym]

He doesn't seem to understand what the point of Smash is

Uh, he created the series. Regardless of your hopes and dreams, Sakurai understands the "point" of Smash Bros. better than any of us. It's whatever he wants it to be.

 

[Vidiot]

Maybe it's me but I still don't get what you're trying to say. You want more characters, but for them to be diverse? The roster choices have been pretty good so far IMHO. I think it's unrealistic to expect Nintendo to ignore some of it's big gun characters in favor of the lesser known ones. For every one fan like you that it would appease it most likely would piss ten off.

 

[Ezalc]

Uh, he created the series. Regardless of your hopes and dreams, Sakurai understands the "point" of Smash Bros. better than any of us. It's whatever he wants it to be.

He created it to be some wacky what if game series, but it could be so much more than that and that's why it's sad. What he wants it to be is some terrible competitor to current fighting games with a for the casual player twist, but that shouldn't be it's main goal at all.

EDIT:

Maybe it's me but I still don't get what you're trying to say. You want more characters, but for them to be diverse? The roster choices have been pretty good so far IMHO. I think it's unrealistic to expect Nintendo to ignore some of it's big gun characters in favor of the lesser known ones. For every one fan like you that it would appease it most likely would piss ten off.

This is what I mean, when I say MvC3. Look at it's roster on Capcom's side look at that shit. It's terrible. 3 DMC characters, 4 RE ones, where's the interesting characters? Where's Batsu, where's Hayato, where's Jin, where's Sonson? Where are the obscure characters? Where are the characters that make you go out and want to get to know them better because you find them interesting from series you never heard of? Where? Nowhere. Smash had what? Rob who isn't even part of an actual series of games, Olimar I guess what else? Pit? The guy who was supposed to be in all Smash games but never made it for whatever reason. Instead of adding somebody interesting he adds clones heaps and heaps of clones and people are wanting more? What the hell is the point of that? Add Isaac, Lil Mac, characters that revitalize old franchises that can give Zelda and Mario a bit of a break. Add characters that show how diverse and interesting and rich Nintendo's history is. Show off, they have the characters for it they just don't use it. Sure they can have 5 characters for Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Metroid, Pokemon but what's the point? What will that do? Nothing new, just show hey look at all these people you already know. They won't be around forever, get people interested in new ones man. That's what I'm trying to say, Mario will be Mario but there's more to Nintendo than Mario they need to show that. All of Capcom's franchises are basically dying because all they care about is Dead Rising, Lost Planet, Resident Evil, Street Fighter and a few others. There's so many they could take advantage of that they don't because why bother making an effort to show how great all these other guys are when we can just fall back on the same old tired things. That's why he doesn't get it either, he thinks people just want more characters but it's about which characters they want, not how many, which stages, not some number. You can have millions of Pokemon stages based on all of the gyms of the series but what good would that do? Make one based on Pokemon Snap to show some variety even from the same franchise. That's what I'm talking about and that's what I want. I want variety I want Nintendo to show off all of these great franchises, all of their great history. Smash should be a series that says how proud Nintendo is of it's heritage as a company, paying homage to all the things that got them this far and all the things that may have fallen by the wayside that people don't pay attention to but are still great and compelling and still a part of the company.

 

[leroidys]

I just want more characters and stages Sakurai. That's it.


I would also hope that they include an improved online mode, even if items have to be turned off or something. I am assuming they will, as KI:U has a robust online multiplayer, and SSBB had online, though it was awful.

 

[KevinCow]

R.O.B. being included over Sukapon is still something I can't understand

Because without ROB, Nintendo wouldn't have been able to get the NES into many American stores, and the NES wouldn't have become the massive success it did. ROB was vital to Nintendo's worldwide success, and Nintendo was vital in molding the video game industry into what we know today. It may be a stupid and useless peripheral, but without it, the world of video games would likely look very different today.

Whereas Sukapon is a character from an obscure, one-off, Japan only NES game that came out years after the SNES. If Joy Mech Fight never existed, literally nothing about Nintendo or the video game industry would be different.

 

[Professor Beef]

I've never heard of ROB until Brawl.

 

[Ezalc]

Because without ROB, Nintendo wouldn't have been able to get the NES into many American stores, and the NES wouldn't have become the massive success it did. ROB was vital to Nintendo's worldwide success, and Nintendo was vital in molding the video game industry into what we know today. It may be a stupid and useless peripheral, but without it, the world of video games would likely look very different today.

Whereas Sukapon is a character from an obscure, one-off, Japan only NES game that came out years after the SNES. If Joy Mech Fight never existed, literally nothing about Nintendo or the video game industry would be different.

I seriously doubt that ROB changed people that much, he was I guess the initial mascot of Nintendo in the US but sales were probably more affected by the Super Mario Bros bundle instead of Gyroscope. Either way, ROB is minor. He was like I said one character and while yes an important part of Nintendo history, Sukapon was the grandfather of Nintendo fighting games yet all he got was a sticker. He'd make for a great playable retro character in the next. Very obscure and with great history. The point remains that I want more like ROB and less like Young Link clone and Wolf. More Amaterasu and less Chris or Nemesis.

 

[fisheyes]

I'm pretty sure Sakurai has said somewhere that he couldn't get Sukapon to work properly or something.

Fuck arguing over what characters are more important, do you know what characters I want to see in Smash? The ones that are fun to play as. I don't care if that's Mario, Link and Kirby, or Sukapon, Muddy Mole and Sheriff. Hell, I don't care if its Pichu, Plusle and Minun. Whatever combination results in the best gameplay mix is, without doubt, the best collection of characters to have. Nothing else matters.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I've always wanted to see a tag team style mode where, say, you play 4 stock, and you choose 4 different characters. Your first stock is character 1, then he dies and you switch to character 2, and so on.

That would be fun and making it applicable to both versus and classic mode or seperating it into it's own seperate mode with options for single and multiplayer.

 

[Ezalc]

I'm pretty sure Sakurai has said somewhere that he couldn't get Sukapon to work properly or something.

Fuck arguing over what characters are more important, do you know what characters I want to see in Smash? The ones that are fun to play as. I don't care if that's Mario, Link and Kirby, or Sukapon, Muddy Mole and Sheriff. Hell, I don't care if its Pichu, Plusle and Minun. Whatever combination results in the best gameplay mix is, without doubt, the best collection of characters to have. Nothing else matters.

You like playing as Ryu? Then there you go have fucking 20 of them that's the same shit Capcom's doing why not with smash too? The point being that something like a clone being in the game adds nothing. There's already somebody else that plays like that so if you think playing as this guy is fun why add two of him? Add others, mix things up with other moves and mechanics to do something interesting. That's the point of adding old characters, to get you interested in them because they're different because they're fun. Adding the same guy over and over again is pointless because very little if anything changes. We want new people that we don't know, not Wolf doing a blaster move, a reflector move, a speedy dash move, that's the same old bullshit. That's why Sakurai has to be called out on his bullshit with Smash because that's what he did with Brawl. Cut corners and had 3 identical final smashes because people don't care. Why bother going through the effort of being creative and giving new life to an old character when we can just get another mario, another pikachu, another marth?

 

[Murrah]

Where are the characters that make you go out and want to get to know them better because you find them interesting from series you never heard of? Where? Nowhere. Smash had what? Rob who isn't even part of an actual series of games, Olimar I guess what else? Pit? The guy who was supposed to be in all Smash games but never made it for whatever reason. Instead of adding somebody interesting he adds clones heaps and heaps of clones and people are wanting more? What the hell is the point of that? Add Isaac, Lil Mac, characters that revitalize old franchises that can give Zelda and Mario a bit of a break. Add characters that show how diverse and interesting and rich Nintendo's history is. Show off, they have the characters for it they just don't use it. Sure they can have 5 characters for Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Metroid, Pokemon but what's the point? What will that do? Nothing new, just show hey look at all these people you already know. They won't be around forever, get people interested in new ones man. That's what I'm trying to say, Mario will be Mario but there's more to Nintendo than Mario they need to show that.

I don't see how you can request Sakurai to put in obscure characters to try and revitalize old franchises while dismissing the inclusion of Pit at the same time. You know, the character who starred in his first game in a couple decades after being put back into the limelight in Brawl? There's also the whole Marth and Roy's inclusion in Melee bringing the franchise to the west but ok

I want Little Mac in too, but no way is he as obscure as a good chunk of the playable characters already in the game, especially to John and Jane Q. Public

 

[Professor Beef]

"Clone" talk? Check.

 

[KevinCow]

I seriously doubt that ROB changed people that much, he was I guess the initial mascot of Nintendo in the US but sales were probably more affected by the Super Mario Bros bundle instead of Gyroscope.

No. Dude. You don't understand. You need a bit of a history lesson here.

ROB wasn't included to sell to people. You're right, people didn't give a shit about ROB or Gyromite. They cared about Mario.

ROB was included to sell to the stores.

Do you know about the video game crash of the early '80s? The entire video game industry became a clusterfuck for a variety of reasons, so people stopped buying them. Just up and stopped. Stores thought the fad was over, so they stopped stocking them.

There was no video game industry for a few years. There was no video game aisle in department stores or toy stores. It goes without saying that there were no video game stores.

So when some weird Japanese company behind that Monkey Kong arcade game approached the big retailers and said, "Hey, we have this new video game console we want to stock in your stores," you know what they said?

"What, are you serious? That fad's over. No way."

I want to bold this for emphasis, so you really understand: The biggest retailers in America refused to stock the NES. And you can't very well sell your video game system if you can't even get it into stores.

What did Nintendo do? They came back a little bit later with the NES and ROB and said, "No no, it's not a video game console, it's a toy robot that you control through your TV!"

And you know what the big retailers said this time?

"Oh, okay. Yeah, we'll stock that."

It's because of ROB that Nintendo was able to get the NES into stores across the country.

If you really care about Nintendo as a company and its history (and gaming in general, really), check out the book Game Over when you have a chance.

 

[Boss Doggie]

"Clone" talk? Check.

Well, more like series talk. But I guess it's going there.

 

[Ezalc]

I don't see how you can request Sakurai to put in obscure characters to try and revitalize old franchises while dismissing the inclusion of Pit at the same time. You know, the character who starred in his first game in a couple decades after being put back into the limelight in Brawl? There's also the whole Marth and Roy's inclusion in Melee bringing the franchise to the west but ok

I want Little Mac in too, but no way is he as obscure as a good chunk of the playable characters already in the game, especially to John and Jane Q. Public

I never dismissed Pit like you're claiming, he was supposed to be in every smash game it just took until Brawl for them to be able to do it.

There are characters more obscure than Little Mac the same as there are more characters that are way more known than Little Mac and yet Little Mac isn't chosen for whatever reason when he should be. They need to do what they did with Marth and Roy in Melee, which is something I said before.

Alright Kevin, I'll concede on ROB, but it's like I said. In brawl he was one character, Pit was always supposed to be in Smash ever since the first one Sakurai has been saying that he wanted him as a playable character. Then we got who else that was new who wasn't well known? Maybe Olimar? I think that's pretty much it unless I'm forgetting somebody and this isn't counting clones. Lucas I guess too but he still has a few clone aspects though not as much as the others. So what, 1 genuinely obscure, another that has been coming for over a decade, another that had two games in one single generation and a third in the works for a long time that isn't exactly unknown to people in the US I'd put Pikmin above Fire Emblem in NA but below it in JP, and Lucas a semi-clone. A lot more could and should have been done.

EDIT: In any fighting game you're going to get clone talk, but the fact remains that it's the most apparent in Smash because of how lazy it always seems to be.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Oh wait there we go, clone talk now.

 

[fisheyes]

You like playing as Ryu? Then there you go have fucking 20 of them that's the same shit Capcom's doing why not with smash too? The point being that something like a clone being in the game adds nothing. There's already somebody else that plays like that so if you think playing as this guy is fun why add two of him? Add others, mix things up with other moves and mechanics to do something interesting. That's the point of adding old characters, to get you interested in them because they're different because they're fun. Adding the same guy over and over again is pointless because very little if anything changes. We want new people that we don't know, not Wolf doing a blaster move, a reflector move, a speedy dash move, that's the same old bullshit. That's why Sakurai has to be called out on his bullshit with Smash because that's what he did with Brawl. Cut corners and had 3 identical final smashes because people don't care. Why bother going through the effort of being creative and giving new life to an old character when we can just get another mario, another pikachu, another marth?

What I'm saying is I want characters if they play different, I don't care if they look the same. So if 20 characters who are called / look like / sound like Ryu played differently to each other, then yes, I'll take 20 Ryus.

You've changed your complaints - before you were complaining about ROB as a character being in over a character like Sukapon, which is ridiculous. ROB brought in a completely new moveset, so therefore, he is worthy of being in. What if Sukapon was just another Fox clone? Would he have instantly been more interesting just because only 6 people know about him? Yes, a Sukapon could have potentially had an interesting moveset, but there's no guarantees.

Now you're talking about clones, which is a completely different issue.

 

[KevinCow]

I definitely don't disagree that there should be more new series represented. I was also really disappointed that Pikmin, Kid Icarus, ROB, Sonic, and MGS were the only new series in Brawl, and the latter two were third-parties, while every other new character was from a previously represented series.

But honestly... there are only a handful of characters I think they could realistically take out and replace with a new series character. Most of the roster is pretty important in their own way. I don't think that indicates that they don't care about Nintendo as a company and its history.

Though now that they have pretty much all the bases covered, all the major characters from all the major series, I do hope that they focus more on new series characters next time. Add Ridley, a second Kid Icarus character - Palutena, Medusa, or Hades, you can make a good argument for all three - and maybe do the Ganondorf/Black Shadow switch so that F-Zero isn't the only Smash 64 series without a second rep anymore. I mean even Earthbound has a second rep, come on. But beyond that, I hope the rest of the newcomers are new series characters.

Some people like to say that Nintendo's used up all the worthwhile characters, but there are really a ton of possibilities.

Little Mac
Isa
Isaac
Jill
Takamaru
Mike Jones
Sukapon
Shulk
Dillon
Pious Augustus
Chibi Robo
Someone for Advance Wars
Someone from Project P-100
The new Retro and Miyamoto characters, if the rumors are true

Spoiler

Excitebot

Just choose a bunch of those. That would be exciting. But I won't get my hopes up.


It might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't even mind if they keep Brawl's Pokemon and Fire Emblem characters instead of including a newest gen Pokemon and Krome.

 

[Freezie KO]

I played a lot of Melee multiplayer in college. I enjoyed Brawl, but seeing as how I have nobody to play it with, my ability to contrast it with Melee is very poor. I actually liked that they play a bit differently, with Brawl favoring more time in the air. And I really don't think the loss of wavedashing or L-cancelling is important.

Can someone please explain to me in detail why Brawl can't be competitive? Please don't just say "Brawl is floaty" or "combos are almost non-existent." Please explain to me how that adversely affects competitive play rather than just encouraging a different type of competitive play.

And please no fights. I'm genuinely curious.

 

[SmithnCo]

I think Brawl can be competitive, it just isn't as nuanced as Melee so people got bored quicker. The floatiness and lack of combo potential just contributed.

Spoiler

also tripping lolo

I think a lot of people appreciated the speed of Melee which is lost on Brawl, and there just isn't as much there to sink your teeth into, gameplay-wise, especially with really lowered hitstun. Brawl favors more time in the air, but you are still pretty limited in that regard.

 

[Red Arremer]

Wowwwww, Ezalc is probably the saltiest person I've ever seen.

OK, so, what "obscure" characters did Melee have? G&W I would hardly call obscure - the things have been sold for YEARS. Ice Climber and Dr. Mario are some of the best selling NES games, so I wouldn't count the ICs or Doc as obscure either. Marth is the main character in one of the bigger Japan-only series, but it was just after his inclusion in Smash that Fire Emblem games started to get released and very popular outside of Japan. Roy (just like Lucas) was only in the game to advertise. Oh but hey, except for Roy, they are all actually really important to Nintendo's history!

Aside from that, ROB is much better known than Sukapon. I love Joy Mech Fight, but to Nintendo's history, ROB is much more important, and much more deserving in comparison to a character from an obscure one-shot NES game that was released after the SNES came out and noone cares about in the slightest.

Putting in obscure characters is fine and dandy, but Smash is definitely not about putting in obscure characters - if that was the case, then why do we have Mario, Link or Pikachu?
Speaking of which, wasn't it Brawl that had a fucking Electroplankton stage? Yeah? Well, there's obscure for you.

 

[Varjet]

ROB was in Viewtiful Joe, totally justifies his inclusion.

 

[IntelliHeath]

However, I have tricky question for everyone. What if GameFreak or Pokemon Company declined the offering/request to put pokemon characters in SSB4? Imagine what would happens.

Since people are pretty much done with Ezalc's. I'm going to bump this question.

ROB was in Viewtiful Joe, totally justifies his inclusion.

Really? I didn't know that. I knew that Dante and Trish were in the game.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Since people are pretty much done with Ezalc's. I'm going to bump this question.

If this happens, I'll be a sad Scrafty. There's still so much untapped potential in the Pokémon series for both stages and characters, and with the extra exposure it gives thr franchise to Smash fans, GameFreak would be fools to deny permission.

 

[Red Arremer]

Since people are pretty much done with Ezalc's. I'm going to bump this question.

I don't think Game Freak will be that stupid. Smash Bros. is one of the best selling series of Nintendo although it only has had 3 releases (I think it's already in the top 10 after Brawl), so it would be a wasted opportunity to get some exposure and advertisement.

Really? I didn't know that. I knew that Dante and Trish were in the game.

Yes, it was only in the Gamecube version of the game tho. It was in the last stage of the game. He's gotten a lot of love though; Kirby's DL3, WarioWare, Mario Kart DS, F-Zero GX, Pikmin 2, and ROB64 from the Star Fox series all reference the little guy.
Also, ROB definitely has been one of the most important additions for Sakurai, since he plays a very central role in the SSE.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I don't think Game Freak will be that stupid. Smash Bros. is one of the best selling series of Nintendo although it only has had 3 releases (I think it's already in the top 10 after Brawl), so it would be a wasted opportunity to get some exposure and advertisement.



Yes, it was only in the Gamecube version of the game tho. It was in the last stage of the game. He's gotten a lot of love though; Kirby's DL3, WarioWare, Mario Kart DS, F-Zero GX, Pikmin 2, and ROB64 from the Star Fox series all reference the little guy.
Also, ROB definitely has been one of the most important additions for Sakurai, since he plays a very central role in the SSE.

Yeah, I recalled that he is playable racer in Mario Kart DS. TBH, I was raged when I found out that ROB got in SSBB when the game released in Japan, but I got over with it quickly when my friend decided to play brawl more often because he want to main robot character in the game. It's very hard to convince that specific friend to play some of specific games but i'm glad he got in. However I hope that SSB4 roster don't disappoint me.

 

[IntelliHeath]

double post, sorry.