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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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Also, Afro Gunsou, I have one more beef with your first post--the idea that Takamaru being Japan exclusive is some how a point for him instead of against him. The Fire Emblem characters in Melee were not chosen to be included to introduce the series to the West--in fact, Sakurai considered removing them from the Western releases before being convinced otherwise. The only other Japan exclusive player character we have as an example is from a series already established in America. I'm not convinced.

Though I do have to give you props for pimping Mach Rider.
Marth was Melee's Japan only character, Lucas was Brawl's, Takamaru will be Smash U's. That's something I am confident to bet on.

It's painfully obvious that they are priming him for a Smash spot with all of his recent cameos in everything from Dynasty Warriors to Nintendoland and Sakurai's "I'm reviving retro characters" statement and his trend of adding a Japan-only fighter to each game adds to this.

Also, thanks for the Mach Rider props but of all the remaining classic characters, it's pretty clear he has the most potential. They could re-introduce him to the world in Smash and turn Mach Rider into Nintendo's own gritty and mature character-driven franchise if rebooted correctly.
 
I have no problem with your other reasonings for Takamaru, but I still disagree that the Japan-only status is a plus--two data points a pattern does not make.

And I definitely disagree with the idea of there being two Kid Icarus newcomers especially if there are only ten or so newcomers period. Even if you do consider Sakurai to be one to give inadequate representation to his own franchises, having one fifth of the newcomers be his own creations (from the same game no less) seems a bit much.

Glad to have someone else to actually willing to discuss the game instead of just posting wishlists. Where are cednym (wait, banned apparently) and Snakey, anyway?
 
I have no problem with your other reasonings for Takamaru, but I still disagree that the Japan-only status is a plus--two data points a pattern does not make.

And I definitely disagree with the idea of there being two Kid Icarus newcomers especially if there are only ten or so newcomers period. Even if you do consider Sakurai to be one to give inadequate representation to his own franchises, having one fifth of the newcomers be his own creations (from the same game no less) seems a bit much.

Glad to have someone else to actually willing to discuss the game instead of just posting wishlists. Where are cednym (wait, banned apparently) and Snakey, anyway?

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Takamaru then, lol.

As for the Kid Icarus newcomer thing, I definitely see your point but, at the same time, Uprising's characters really do feel like they were made for Smash Bros. and I don't really think it's Sakurai's fault that even minor characters in Uprising like Magnus and
Pyrrhon
managed to make a bigger impression on current Nintendo gamers than pretty much anyone outside of maybe Xenoblade.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Wasn't Lucas going to replace Ness in Melee but Mother3 was canned so he didn't go through with it. If that was the case there really isn't a pattern for Japan exclusive character because Melee would have received two and Brawl none.
 
Wasn't Lucas going to replace Ness in Melee but Mother3 was canned so he didn't go through with it. If that was the case there really isn't a pattern for Japan exclusive character because Melee would have received two and Brawl none.

Melee pretty much had two anyway, since the seventh Fire Emblem hadn't even been thought of when Roy was put in the game.
 

Murrah

Banned
To anyone who's saying they see Palutena as a guarantee, can I ask why? I mean, I think she's one of the best video game characters of all time as well as one of the best things to ever come out of a Nintendo game, but her whole character is built around her speaking/sense of humor, so why is a playable fighter the best representation of her?
Yes I realize she fights a couple times in Uprising

My immediate thought for her in Smash Bros. (along with pretty much any other character from Uprising) was as a commentator in a Kid Icarus stage. If they actually made it highly contextualized based on what characters were being used and what was happening in the match I think it'd be incredible, as well as being much more of a celebration of the characters people love from Uprising by actually celebrating why it is people love them. Animal Crossing is a much bigger franchise for Nintendo and it didn't have playable representation for similar reasons (though I am aware that the situation is different being that Animal Crossing is also an [almost] entirely non-violent game)

I'm not saying that'll happen; I'm well aware of the problems and how difficult doing that would be, and I'm pretty confident Palutena will indeed end up being a playable character like most everyone else thinks. I'm just saying don't count your cuccos before they're hatched, especially when it's Sakurai we're dealing with
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
To anyone who's saying they see Palutena as a guarantee, can I ask why? I mean, I think she's one of the best video game characters of all time as well as one of the best things to ever come out of a Nintendo game, but her whole character is built around her speaking/sense of humor, so why is a playable fighter the best representation of her?
Yes I realize she fights a couple times in Uprising

My immediate thought for her in Smash Bros. (along with pretty much any other character from Uprising) was as a commentator in a Kid Icarus stage. If they actually made it highly contextualized based on what characters were being used and what was happening in the match I think it'd be incredible, as well as being much more of a celebration of the characters people love from Uprising by actually celebrating why it is people love them. Animal Crossing is a much bigger franchise for Nintendo and it didn't have playable representation for similar reasons (though I am aware that the situation is different being that Animal Crossing is also an [almost] entirely non-violent game)

I'm not saying that'll happen; I'm well aware of the problems and how difficult doing that would be, and I'm pretty confident Palutena will indeed end up being a playable character like most everyone else thinks. I'm just saying don't count your cuccos before they're hatched

That's true since many people were expecting Ridley,Krystal, King K Rool, and few during Brawl era.
 

KevinCow

Banned
Ridley
Jill DOZER, not any of those other lame-ass Jills
Mega Man

My top 3 this time around. They get in or I'm not buyin'! (That is totally a lie)

For the record, my top 3 for Brawl were:

Pit
Diddy
Sonic

Just using some basic pattern recognition here, you can see that I am awesome and always right. Therefore my top 3 this time are basically confirmed.

...Though in full disclosure, my top 3 for Melee were probably something like Batman, Spider-Man, Goku, but I was 13 and didn't understand how these things worked.
 

Thores

Member
Mine are Ridley, Tingle, and Mega Man. Paper Mario and Shulk make it my Top 5 because I like them all so much that leaving any one of them out was really hard. Their likelihood of being in Smash 4 is kind of a mixed bag.
 
As for the Kid Icarus newcomer thing, I definitely see your point but, at the same time, Uprising's characters really do feel like they were made for Smash Bros. and I don't really think it's Sakurai's fault that even minor characters in Uprising like Magnus and
Pyrrhon
managed to make a bigger impression on current Nintendo gamers than pretty much anyone outside of maybe Xenoblade.

I don't know, I think the characters by and large seem to fit so readily into Smash Bros. because they are required to interact with Pit, who is by and large known to most as a Smash character first. It's pretty much the only game that I can think of that Smash Bros. has had a recursive effect on; i.e. it exists because of Smash Bros instead of the other way around. If that makes any sense (made better sense in my head).

To anyone who's saying they see Palutena as a guarantee, can I ask why? I mean, I think she's one of the best video game characters of all time as well as one of the best things to ever come out of a Nintendo game, but her whole character is built around her speaking/sense of humor, so why is a playable fighter the best representation of her?
Yes I realize she fights a couple times in Uprising

My immediate thought for her in Smash Bros. (along with pretty much any other character from Uprising) was as a commentator in a Kid Icarus stage. If they actually made it highly contextualized based on what characters were being used and what was happening in the match I think it'd be incredible, as well as being much more of a celebration of the characters people love from Uprising by actually celebrating why it is people love them. Animal Crossing is a much bigger franchise for Nintendo and it didn't have playable representation for similar reasons (though I am aware that the situation is different being that Animal Crossing is also an [almost] entirely non-violent game)

I'm not saying that'll happen; I'm well aware of the problems and how difficult doing that would be, and I'm pretty confident Palutena will indeed end up being a playable character like most everyone else thinks. I'm just saying don't count your cuccos before they're hatched, especially when it's Sakurai we're dealing with

This I can agree with (provided you aren't implying that any other Kid Icarus character is more likely, then we would have to come to fisticuffs)--I flat out don't think there's any newcomer that we can confidently say will appear beyond a shadow of a doubt. There are no Warios, Diddy Kongs, or King Dededes left.

EDIT: If we're talking top three wants I would probably list King K. Rool, Mach Rider, and Waluigi (not kidding). Not all of them likely, but those are probably my top three (maybe Medusa could switch in on an off day).
 
I'm not a fan of this logic, I'm going to say. Why would anyone prefer cutting characters before adding new ones? The more old characters present the better, I say. I really don't like depriving people of the characters they like to play, and I see no reason why certain players should be alienated while others should not.

Understandable. I just personally feel that there's some unnecessary fluff to the roster right now. I think just reworking the characters to eliminate clones would go a long way. The Star Fox characters are the most egregious examples.

I can't really think of any characters I absolutely need in the next Super Smash Bros. If I had to choose one, it would probably be Shulk.

Sora is my secret guilty pleasure character that won't (and probably shouldn't) make it in. He just seems like a character that would attract numerous people to the game. But he certainly doesn't "deserve" a spot, I suppose.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Wow, cutting Brawl characters? Really?

This is a new low.

I'm honestly angry because Wolf is not considered AND people prefer someone like Falco instead, and people are using GAME QUALITY for roster selection baffles me. You guys should analyze things again.
 
Wow, cutting Brawl characters? Really?

This is a new low.

I'm honestly angry because Wolf is not considered AND people prefer someone like Falco instead, and people are using GAME QUALITY for roster selection baffles me. You guys should analyze things again.

It's silly really, Falco is lucky to even be here, possibly the most lucky out of any character really when you consider his actual role in SF.
But him being one of the best characters in the past 2 gamess really worked in his favour, not that I dislike Falco but Wolf should NEVER be cut before Falco, in a more just world it goes the other way round.

Or preferably no one gets cut at all but who knows, i'm already expecting Ike to be booted at this point and I will weep.
 
Wow, cutting Brawl characters? Really?

This is a new low.

I'm honestly angry because Wolf is not considered AND people prefer someone like Falco instead, and people are using GAME QUALITY for roster selection baffles me. You guys should analyze things again.

Adding NES titles as a retro throwback is one thing, but having 2 Mother characters for example when European players have no idea who they are is pretty stupid. There were tonnes of references in Brawl campaign too, it's like Nintendo is saying "The Mother series is awesome isn't it? You can't have it."

I like the Starfox characters, but three of them, when they all play very similarly, is pretty excessive.
 
My Predictions:

RPG-Inspired System, "Create-a-Fighter" Mii, "Sticker" Battles
Gameplay is going to be very customizable and each mode will be connected by some kind of RPG-inspired database. Mii's will likely be used as a custom character, much like SoulCalibur's create-a-character and most of the Mii's moves will either be inspired from the Wii series of games or will be generic versions of current moves (such as Mario's fireball). Regular characters will also have various moves you can choose to assign to a specific special button or get rid of (for example, you can choose to have Mario's down special be a Mario Tornado or a FLUDD). "Stickers", or something similar, are going to be used way more and the main gameplay will revolve around assigning "stickers" before battle.

Better Trophies, Return of Bonuses
While this probably isn't going to happen, I want better rewards and post-game bonuses. The trophies in brawl were uninteresting and almost all of them were just characters from Subspace Emissary (those "primids" or whatever they're called are even more generic than fighting wire frames). Don't even know why they got rid of bonuses; those added a lot to the experience.

One More Third Party Rep, From Namco
As much as I believe Black Mage and Megaman (or Ryu) should be the next third party guest characters, I'm a bit against their inclusion because Smash Bros. is about Nintendo characters. On the flip side, characters like the ones I listed are also connected with Nintendo at times, despite being third parties. Obviously, the most likely third party inclusion will come from Namco and will either be Pacman (which I don't mind) or Lloyd Irving (which I would be against).

Character Prediction
I personally don't believe there is that much thought process into choosing characters (obviously, there's a thought process behind designing characters, but that's different than choosing), so I'm probably overthinking who is going to be in. Kalas from Baten Kaitos is one of Monolith Soft's first games and another collaboration between Namco and Nintendo. If Kalas gets in, Shulk will most likely not get in though, and I personally think Shulk has a better design (to be honest, haven't played either of the games yet).

Don't see what so bad with cutting characters from Brawl. Sure, Fox, Falco, and Wolf all have fairly different styles, but they really do feel a lot alike. Going back to my first prediction, removing Falco and Wolf would allow for Fox to have their moves by assigning them before battle. Same goes with giving Ness Lucas' moves. Link and Toon Link should become one entity (its stupid to have them be different and Link is garbage enough as it is).

We'll probably get one more Mario / Mario Spin-Off rep, most likely being Bowser Jr., Waluigi, or even Captain Syrup. I think Ashley & Red from WarioWare would be cool to have but it would probably be best not to include her. Waluigi honestly sounds the most likely; Sakurai's tone on Waluigi's page during the Dojo days sounded as if Sakurai wanted Waluigi to be playable and for whatever reason, he just wasn't (To whoever wrote this: "once an assist trophy, always an assist trophy", I don't believe this statement because 1. things change, you even put down Little Mac as an exception, and 2. Charizard used to be a pokeball pokemon, but is now a character, or at least 1/3's of one).

Probably a fifth pokemon rep; I'd personally like to see Dragonite as a character, but that's far too weird imo. The reason I'd like to see it, other than the pokemon's fanbase, is that it would play so differently than the rest (Dragonite may have a similar physique to Charizard, but they would definitely play differently) and is a great size. All the pokemon we have right now are fairly squishy and small (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Squirtle, Venusaur, and even Lucario is a pretty a lightweight character). I don't think Dragonite should be a character (it would definitely be interesting) but I would much like a "heavy" pokemon (aside from Charizard), or a radically different Pokemon, to go along with the rest.

Little Mac feels like a given at this point. Saki Amamiya and Isaac will unfortunately stay as assist trophies. With the inclusion of the RPG system, I think Ray Mk III is a great addition. Could see Takamaru since his popularity appears to be steadily increasing, but he probably would be better as an assist trophy.
 

Murrah

Banned
This I can agree with (provided you aren't implying that any other Kid Icarus character is more likely, then we would have to come to fisticuffs)

Haha, nope, I definitely agree that Palutena has the best chance of making it in from Uprising, and I definitely don't see more than one Uprising character being added to the roster. In terms of what I would want, however...

screw the rules I want dark pit

Preach it brother. In my ideal world, Pit would remain in the game largely using his bow like he did in Brawl, while Pitoo would have stance switching between, say, three of the different weapon types from Uprising; not sure which ones, but for variety's sake I suppose Club, Palm and, I dunno, staff? I'd say blade but there's already so many sword users. He's certainly not the best character from Uprising, but in terms of how varied and different his playstyle would be and also representing the actual gameplay of Uprising, I think he's the best. Only if he was named Pitoo and not Dark Pit, though

Plus then we'd have our own version of Evil Cole in PSABR debacle. And if there's one thing the Smash community needs it's more character pick drama
 

Pociask

Member
Cut Falco and Wolf.

Replace with Slippy.

Cut Falco and Wolf. Replace with Slippy telling you to do a barrel roll whenever you're hit, and Falco making bitter comments about how he could have done better when you get knocked off the stage. 5% chance that when Fox calls the Landmaster, Wolf preemptively blows it up as it falls to the ground - "I can't let you do that, Star Fox!"
 

Javier

Member
What I do find baffling is how some people suggest certain characters to be cut but then suggest even lamer, more obscure characters to be included as newcomers. Why would anyone want Slime from Dragon Quest? Sure, it may be iconic to its series, but why put it in a fighting game when characters like Lucas, Ike, Falco or Lucario are much more fitting?

There are tons of obscure, not-too-popular characters that are favorites of mine and I would love to see in the game (Agent J, Ryouta, Lip, Micaiah, Rosalina, Dixie, (KIU Character)
Viridi
, Gen V Pokemon Trainer Girl, Saki Amamiya), but if it is at the expense of losing an established veteran, then I'd rather not.

Shulk is probably the only character in which I might give up on a veteran for his inclusion, but anyone else probably not.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I like the Starfox characters, but three of them, when they all play very similarly, is pretty excessive.

JpKtH.gif


It's silly really, Falco is lucky to even be here, possibly the most lucky out of any character really when you consider his actual role in SF.
But him being one of the best characters in the past 2 gamess really worked in his favour, not that I dislike Falco but Wolf should NEVER be cut before Falco, in a more just world it goes the other way round.

Or preferably no one gets cut at all but who knows, i'm already expecting Ike to be booted at this point and I will weep.

And even then I really doubt Ike would be cut, considering how Roy was supposed to be in Brawl.

As for Falco, well go blame Melee purists.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
It's silly really, Falco is lucky to even be here, possibly the most lucky out of any character really when you consider his actual role in SF.
But him being one of the best characters in the past 2 gamess really worked in his favour, not that I dislike Falco but Wolf should NEVER be cut before Falco, in a more just world it goes the other way round.

Or preferably no one gets cut at all but who knows, i'm already expecting Ike to be booted at this point and I will weep.

I think they should get rid of Falco and keep Wolf. I am expecting that Ike would be booted out in favor for Krom/Khrome.


Haha, nope, I definitely agree that Palutena has the best chance of making it in from Uprising, and I definitely don't see more than one Uprising character being added to the roster. In terms of what I would want, however...



Preach it brother. In my ideal world, Pit would remain in the game largely using his bow like he did in Brawl, while Pitoo would have stance switching between, say, three of the different weapon types from Uprising; not sure which ones, but for variety's sake I suppose Club, Palm and, I dunno, staff? I'd say blade but there's already so many sword users. He's certainly not the best character from Uprising, but in terms of how varied and different his playstyle would be and also representing the actual gameplay of Uprising, I think he's the best. Only if he was named Pitoo and not Dark Pit, though

Plus then we'd have our own version of Evil Cole in PSABR debacle. And if there's one thing the Smash community needs it's more character pick drama

I don't really care people would get upset about "Evil Cole" because I want Sakurai to give dark pit old moveset, and revamp Pit with new uprising moveset.
 
JpKtH.gif




And even then I really doubt Ike would be cut, considering how Roy was supposed to be in Brawl.

As for Falco, well go blame Melee purists.

Oh go on, tell me how it's different because Falco THROWS his reflector and Wolf's side + B goes diagonally up instead of horizontally.


I don't really care people would get upset about "Evil Cole" because I want Sakurai to give dark pit old moveset, and revamp Pit with new uprising moveset.

But there's soooo many more interesting characters from KI:U that deserve a slot!
 

Javier

Member
Oh go on, tell me how it's different because Falco THROWS his reflector and Wolf's side + B goes diagonally up instead of horizontally.
The SF trio may have the same base moveset, but they feel and play VERY differently. Fox is floatier, while Falco is more agile and Wolf is clunkier, or at least that's how I feel them. Wolf is one of my mains, but I can't use Fox at all. Falco is okay.

People really need to try the characters out for a while so they can spot what makes each one unique instead of glancing at their special moves and scream "Clone!".
 
Back in the day we called those modified clones "Luigified Clones" based off of that Mr Green guy who has similar moves to Mario but is also quite different.
 
Nobody explained.

Select Fox. Press the A button too instead of only the B button.
Then select Wolf. Press the A button too instead of only the B button.
Then come back here and tell me they use exactly the same moves.

I don't think anyone contests Falco being a clone of Fox in almost every way, though Brawl even differentiated Falco from Fox in a lot of the A moves. In Melee he was a Ken to Ryu, now he is Akuma to Ryu.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
they're totally different because wolf is way sexier than the other two

I guess Falco has points too. Personally, I prefer Wolf.

Oh go on, tell me how it's different because Falco THROWS his reflector and Wolf's side + B goes diagonally up instead of horizontally.

We'll forget Falco since in a way he's still semi-clone.

Wolf's side B is pretty much of different principle compared to the Illusion move of Fox and Falco. This is pretty much saying Samus and Link's Up B's are similar because they "spin".

Wolf's reflector is more leaning towards a counter than it is a reflector (and it still is a good reflector but is useful as an approach attack). It's just like saying Lucario's Counter is the same as Marth's Counter.

Wolf's projectile is different because it also follows different principles compared to the pea shooters of Falco and Fox. It's essentially more like Samus's stun shot except less stun, more damage, and has a bayonet.

Wolf's Up B is the only "clone-ish" move, and even then that's like saying Lucario and Diddy's Up B are clone moves.

And let's not even begin with the A moves.

Wolf is essentially like Lucas in uniqueness. If Lucas doesn't get lambasted, then Wolf shouldn't be as well.
 
Wolf's forward B is fun because getting a spike with it is like so situational and therefore awesome.
You're gonna have to explain further on the reflector, I genuinely figured it was the same as Fox's, I felt it was the more clone like move compared to your choice of the up B which has a harder to work angle than Fox's and ends with a greater impact.

And who'd compare Diddy's Up B to Lucario's? one requires charge time and deals damage, the other does no damage and is lame as fuck, extreme speed my arse!
Why the closest thing to Lucario's up B with its non damage screen traversal is Mew-*smashed*
 

ffdgh

Member
Wolf's forward B is fun because getting a spike with it is like so situational and therefore awesome.
You're gonna have to explain further on the reflector, I genuinely figured it was the same as Fox's, I felt it was the more clone like move compared to your choice of the up B which has a harder to work angle than Fox's and ends with a greater impact.

And who'd compare Diddy's Up B to Lucario's? one requires charge time and deals damage, the other does no damage and is lame as fuck, extreme speed my arse!
Why the closest thing to Lucario's up B with its non damage screen traversal is Mew-*smashed*

atlease teleport was instant :p
 
Geno is in the new smash as Square's third party rep riding atop of a too big ridley who uses cloned starfox character moves, this new character slot is gained by sacrificing Lucario, the final smash changes the games engine to either brawl or melee style.
This character is known as Cycle, this news brought to you by Zelda informer.
 
Geno is in the new smash as Square's third party rep riding atop of a too big ridley who uses cloned starfox character moves, this new character slot is gained by sacrificing Lucario, the final smash changes the games engine to either brawl or melee style.
This character is known as Cycle, this news brought to you by Zelda informer.

/thread
shows over, you can all go home now.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Geno is in the new smash as Square's third party rep riding atop of a too big ridley who uses cloned starfox character moves, this new character slot is gained by sacrificing Lucario, the final smash changes the games engine to either brawl or melee style.
This character is known as Cycle, this news brought to you by Zelda informer.

I lol'd. Well done.
 

GamerSoul

Member
My top 3

Capt. Syrup
Lil Mac
Lyn

Geno is in the new smash as Square's third party rep riding atop of a too big ridley who uses cloned starfox character moves, this new character slot is gained by sacrificing Lucario, the final smash changes the games engine to either brawl or melee style.
This character is known as Cycle, this news brought to you by Zelda informer.

christian-bale-kermit-the-frog.gif


lmao
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Geno is in the new smash as Square's third party rep riding atop of a too big ridley who uses cloned starfox character moves, this new character slot is gained by sacrificing Lucario, the final smash changes the games engine to either brawl or melee style.
This character is known as Cycle, this news brought to you by Zelda informer.

Geius.

You're gonna have to explain further on the reflector, I genuinely figured it was the same as Fox's, I felt it was the more clone like move compared to your choice of the up B which has a harder to work angle than Fox's and ends with a greater impact.

And who'd compare Diddy's Up B to Lucario's? one requires charge time and deals damage, the other does no damage and is lame as fuck, extreme speed my arse!
Why the closest thing to Lucario's up B with its non damage screen traversal is Mew-*smashed*

In Brawl Fox's reflector doesn't have enough invincibility frames to make it act like a counterattack. Also Wolf doesn't push enemies, making them vulnerable from his reflector.

And Wolf's Up B is only useful for a vertical recovery. It's pretty shitty compared to Wolf Flash.

And like I said, that comparison was meant to be spotty because they only "look" similar (i.e. recovery move that originally moves in a straight line that curves).
 
I keep seeing a ton of Captain Syrup love. While I didn't mention her among my predictions, she's certainly high on the list of characters I definitely want to see make it into Smash U. She'd be perfect to represent the "Wario Land" aspect of the series that's been overshadowed by the WarioWare side. Plus, we could always use more female fighters.

tumblr_m8jwuiUW5E1qbe7n1o1_500.png


Also she's hot. She's really, really hot. Definitely the sexiest Nintendo character next to Zero Suit Samus and Nell from Advance Wars.
 
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