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[Lee Chaolan]

Holy term paper, Batman. lol.

Good stuff, I can see him fitting in somehow. Maybe a smaller version? Ala Firebrand? Who knows though. I'd be down with Ridley though.

 

[BGBW]

I just saw the thread you lot were talking about and the OP has to be off his rocker if his thought Skylanders was a logical suggestion.

 

[Nocturnowl]

I actually think I read that back in 2010.
I'll never quite get the few that say that Ridley shouldn't be sized down because of reasons like a loss of menace or something similar, i'm pretty sure anyone who wants Ridley in Smash doesn't really give a hoot about such things, we just want to play as Ridley damn it!

 

[Neoriceisgood]

If we're gonna bring up old stuff anyway:

Here's an example I made to show Ridley can still "Feel" huge but technically be bowser-sized if posed properly.

I also had a big rant to go with the image but I don't feel like digging that up.

 

[Kokonoe]

Melee Donation Link

If anyone wants to support the fight against breast cancer as well as Melee getting into the EVO tournament, click the link above.

If we're gonna bring up old stuff anyway:

Here's an example I made to show Ridley can still "Feel" huge but technically be bowser-sized if posed properly.

I also had a big rant to go with the image but I don't feel like digging that up.

And Bowser is even bigger than that in Brawl, too.

 

[Red Arremer]

If anyone wants to support breast cancer

I'd rather not support breast cancer, a good friend's mother died to it. :|

 

[Kokonoe]

I'd rather not support breast cancer, a good friend's mother died to it. :|

I can't laugh at your joke when you put it like that, but yeah I'll edit my post now.

 

[Ryce]

Ridley's probably my most wanted newcomer, but I do think the likelihood of his playability is far overstated. He was never considered as a playable character for the first three games, and when asked about Ridley for Brawl, Sakurai replied, "I think that would be pretty impossible." He was given two boss spots in Brawl and there's even evidence of a scrapped Assist Trophy -- clearly that's as far as Sakurai's willing to go. He thought Zero Suit Samus made for a better second Metroid rep in Brawl.

Ridley's far from a fan favorite icon to the general public, and he's not very popular in Japan, so unless Sakurai scours American forums for roster input, I don't see what incentive he'd have to include Ridley. Brawl was designed to be Smash Bros.' last hurrah, and Sakurai stuffed in all the "deserving" holdovers: Wario, King Dedede, Pokémon Trainer, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, and Wolf.

The only newcomers I see happening are additional third parties, retro characters, characters who didn't exist during the Brawl development period (Chrom, new Pokémon), and Palutena, who experienced a recent revival after twenty years of inactivity. I maintain that if Sakurai thought Ridley warranted a playable character spot he'd have been included in Brawl. (I feel the same holds true of characters like Toad and King K. Rool.)

Hopefully I'm wrong, though. We'll see in five months.

 

[Snakey]

Ridley's probably my most wanted newcomer, but I do think the likelihood of his playability is far overstated. He was never considered as a playable character for the first three games, and when asked about Ridley for Brawl, Sakurai replied, "I think that would be pretty impossible."

Ridley's far from a fan favorite icon to the general public, and he's not very popular in Japan, so unless Sakurai scours American forums for roster input, I don't see what incentive he'd have to include Ridley.

No, Sakurai did not say that. Here is what he said:

Nintendo Power: There was a rumor at one point about Ridley being playable. Was that ever a consideration?

Sakurai: I think that would probably be pretty impossible. [Laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that be all right? [Laughs]

Also, on Japanese forums, I have seen them mention Ridley's "overseas" popularity (I have seen the same for Little Mac). I am sure Sakurai is aware for overseas popularity for characters as well, considering he cited it for Sonic.

Also, if you are going to cite the lack of Japanese interest for Ridley not getting in, then I suppose you would be willing to cede that Mewtwo and Roy have strong chances of returning since those two characters are ones I see come up the most when Japanese Smash fans talk about what characters they want to see in Smash 4.

Lastly, Ridley is iconic to the Metroid franchise. If you have played Metroid, the chances are you know who Samus is. Aside from Ridley, the only other Nintendo characters that are not in yet that are definitely more well known than him are the Miis and Mario universe characters. That's it.

 

[Ryce]

Also, if you are going to cite the lack of Japanese interest for Ridley not getting in, then I suppose you would be willing to cede that Mewtwo and Roy have strong chances of returning since those two characters are ones I see come up the most when Japanese Smash fans talk about what characters they want to see in Smash 4.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Mewtwo return since he's a completely original character from Nintendo's second biggest franchise, but Roy... I just don't see it. Mario, Pokémon, and Zelda are the only series worthy of meeting/passing the four character mark, and Roy isn't going to make it in over Ike or Chrom.

 

[Snakey]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Mewtwo return since he's a completely original character from Nintendo's second biggest franchise, but Roy... I just don't see it. Mario, Pokémon, and Zelda are the only series worthy of meeting/passing the four character mark, and Roy isn't going to make it in over Ike or Chrom.

We'll see. The series did get two characters in Melee, when most other major series (outside of the big 3 and Star Fox) were stuck with one, and was pretty much set for three characters in Brawl. Roy would also be a low effort "newcomer", so he would be relatively easy to add back in.

That being said if Roy returns, I think he will be one of the last characters added to the game (I could see the last character getting being a luigi-fied clone character like Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, Black Shadow, or if Takamaru gets in, Samurai Goroh).

 

[Ryce]

We'll see. The series did get two characters in Melee, when most other major series (outside of the big 3 and Star Fox) were stuck with one, and was pretty much set for three characters in Brawl. Roy would also be a low effort "newcomer", so he would be relatively easy to add back in.

Clones really threw everything for a loop, though. Sakurai was probably more concerned at that point with finding characters to match the existing move sets than he was with representational balance.

That being said if Roy returns, I think he will be one of the last characters added to the game (I could see the last character getting being a luigi-fied clone character like Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, Black Shadow, or if Takamaru gets in, Samurai Goroh).

Toon Zelda's more likely than most people want to admit. We've had Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Ocarina of Time 3D, Skyward Sword, and now Wind Waker HD since 2005. Zelda's big enough to warrant a newcomer, and of all the recurring characters, only Toon Zelda and Tingle make some sense. Tingle isn't going to happen as an original character (he'd only be worth the effort as a Balloon Fighter semi-clone, who probably won't be included), which leaves Toon Zelda. She was planned for Brawl and since appeared in Spirit Tracks (playable for the first time) and Wind Waker HD.

 

[Snakey]

Toon Zelda's more likely than most people want to admit. We've had Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Ocarina of Time 3D, Skyward Sword, and now Wind Waker HD since 2005. Zelda's big enough to warrant a newcomer, and of all the recurring characters, only Toon Zelda and Tingle make some sense. Tingle isn't going to happen as an original character (he'd only be worth the effort as a Balloon Fighter semi-clone, who probably won't be included), which leaves Toon Zelda. She was planned for Brawl and since appeared in Spirit Tracks (playable for the first time) and Wind Waker HD.

I think Toon Zelda's chances are really underrated too. However, I only think she would be added if Sakurai wanted to make the roster as big as possible (I am guessing 53 playable characters at most, that includes transformations), unlike Toon Link, no one is asking for her.

I think if the next Zelda on the 3DS is another "toon style" Zelda, Toon Zelda will most likely be our Zelda newcomer for Smash 4, if a Zelda newcomer were to happen.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I bet we're gonna get Toon Ganondorf.

 

[Red Arremer]

Nah, we'll get Toon Ridley.

 

[Anth0ny]

I bet we're gonna get Toon Ganondorf.

that would be awesome

Spoiler

a fat captain falcon clone

 

[McNum]

Toon Ganondorf would get a unique moveset, but standard Ganondorf would still be a Captain Falcon clone.

 

[Kjellson]

I believe Shulk will be one of the newcomers in the first trailer. I could seriously bet some money on it too.

 

[Choppasmith]

I'm still hoping for Ghirahim with Demise being a big and heavy version.

 

[w00tkins]

It would be interesting to see how they would balance Ridley if he did get in. While he might be shrunken down, he'd still be rather large and therefore at a disadvantage due to being such a huge target.

+1 for Ghirahim. I'll finally know how to pronounce his name!

 

[Kokonoe]

Wait, Atlus? Then add Aht so I can have the perfect tag team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdNL1ipVq-g

 

[Choppasmith]

+1 for Ghirahim. I'll finally know how to pronounce his name!

Indeed. I've been pronouncing it like GI (like the karate outfit) - RAH - HIGH + M (like rhyme without the r) but I don't think it's officially confirmed anywhere (unless someone's familiar with the Japanese spelling).

 

[Nocturnowl]

I think it was something like...
Gear-rah-heem
if that makes any sense, not sure where I picked that up from though.

 

[Ryce]

The Japanese spelling suggests an English pronunciation along the lines of Gih'ra-him. There are no long E sounds.

 

[Nocturnowl]

The plot thickens, who would've thought a name could be so complicated?

 

[Professor Beef]

Just call him Jerry.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Eh, while I'd be cool with Ghirahim he reminds me a lot of how Midna did for Brawl. A cult-favorite who suddenly becomes irrelevant by the time the next Zelda game rolls around, and less in a 'Lucario isn't the mascot of later Pokemon games' and more in a 'they won't exist in any form in the next game'. Ironically Tingle's the only Zelda character left who keeps consistently being reincarnated, but I think they'd be better off treating him as his own franchise in Smash.

I guess Sheik complicates matters. She's only in OoT, but she was supposed to be in TP and Zelda having an alter-ego she transforms to is sort of a running theme in a few games now. I could see her being swapped out for Impa in SSB4 though, but ideally a model-swap costume would make her Sheik again.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Nah, we'll get Toon Ridley.

I'm sad that I'm the only one who played Radiata Stories in this thread.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Just call him Jerry.

But that reminds me of Jerry Lawler and that's no good!

 

[Professor Beef]

But that reminds me of Jerry Lawler and that's no good!

"You wish to fight me, Link? Well guess what, I'll think about it!"

 

[Nocturnowl]

"You wish to fight me, Link? Well guess what, I'll think about it!"

*SSB audience starts chanting "Ganondorf!"*
Wow, listen to all these fans chanting lets go Link!

So that All Stars thread reminds me how much people underrate old DK, the poor ape.

 

[Choppasmith]

I guess Sheik complicates matters. She's only in OoT, but she was supposed to be in TP and Zelda having an alter-ego she transforms to is sort of a running theme in a few games now. I could see her being swapped out for Impa in SSB4 though, but ideally a model-swap costume would make her Sheik again.

I'd be quite okay with this. I've said it before but the one thing Smash needs is actual, bonafide costumes and not just color swaps. With the Zelda characters it would be quite handy as there's a lot of material to use.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I guess Sheik complicates matters. She's only in OoT, but she was supposed to be in TP and Zelda having an alter-ego she transforms to is sort of a running theme in a few games now.

I don't think Sheik was in Brawl for any reason related to the Zelda series. Even if she hadn't been planned for Twilight Princess, I think she would have been in Brawl just because she is Zelda's gimmick, and that separates her from other one-off characters like Midna and Ghirahim.

If SSB4 Zelda is based on Skyward Sword Zelda, then I think there's a pretty good chance that Sheik could get reskinned as Impa, but otherwise I think she'll stay as she is (although an Impa costume could be cool).

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I don't think Sheik was in Brawl for any reason related to the Zelda series. Even if she hadn't been planned for Twilight Princess, I think she would have been in Brawl just because she is Zelda's gimmick, and that separates her from other one-off characters like Midna and Ghirahim.

If SSB4 Zelda is based on Skyward Sword Zelda, then I think there's a pretty good chance that Sheik could get reskinned as Impa, but otherwise I think she'll stay as she is (although an Impa costume could be cool).

Since some people are calling for it (I'm apathetic ultimately, TL's the only Zelda character I play as regularly in Smash) they could always just make it Zelda and Impa, with both of them separated. If they take a page out of PSASBR's book they could give both costumes so you could have OoT and TP Zelda along with OoT and TP Sheik skins for Impa without having the awkward situation where the same person is listed twice in the roster.

Sheik could have gone either way IMO in Brawl if there wasn't that cut TP content for Sakurai to work off. Given that Mewtwo was cut despite having an original moveset and not being replaced by anyone the game wasn't above axing fully original movesets.

 

[Red Arremer]

I'm sad that I'm the only one who played Radiata Stories in this thread.

Thanks for calling me a nobody. :[

I knew the reference, but it was the only pic of Ridley that looked ridiculous (without being NSFW), which is why I used it.

 

[Ryce]

Sakurai tends to be as forward-thinking as possible when it comes to Smash Bros -- just look at Roy in Melee and Lucas and Lucario in Brawl (their games weren't released yet during planning). Given that Zelda Wii U has probably been in development since early last year, Sakurai will probably be basing the character designs off of that game. I actually wouldn't be surprised at all if Link isn't one of the characters confirmed at E3.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Wasn't Skyward Sword already well into development by the time Brawl came out though? While you're right about their development periods running concurrent to each other, Smash usually comes out after said-major Zelda game has. Unless Zelda Wii U comes out far sooner than expected (2015) or SSB4 gets delayed to hell and back (I'm betting on a mid 2014 release at the latest), I don't see Sakurai using designs from a game a year out from release.

 

[Ryce]

Wasn't Skyward Sword already well into development by the time Brawl came out though?

Brawl entered development over a year before Twilight Princess came out. Skyward Sword stuff would have been incredibly last minute.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Sheik could have gone either way IMO in Brawl if there wasn't that cut TP content for Sakurai to work off. Given that Mewtwo was cut despite having an original moveset and not being replaced by anyone the game wasn't above axing fully original movesets.

I don't think she would have been cut because she's a part of the concept of Zelda in Smash Bros. Zelda wasn't picked for Melee because Zelda needed another character or because fans were asking for her, but because the developers wanted to do the dual-character thing. I just don't think the Twilight Princess concept stuff was a big factor in keeping her around; other roster choices have shown that being a Smash Bros. character earns a kind of relevance of its own (otherwise Jigglypuff probably wouldn't be in Brawl and Roy wouldn't have even been considered).

Even if they were to go the Skyward Sword route, I think Zelda and the hypothetical Impa would still be tied together.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Thanks for calling me a nobody. :[

I knew the reference, but it was the only pic of Ridley that looked ridiculous (without being NSFW), which is why I used it.

Whoops, forgot about you

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

So that All Stars thread reminds me how much people underrate old DK, the poor ape.

<3 DK

Smash Wii U needs hitstun akin to 64 IMO.

 

[Professor Beef]

<3 DK

Smash Wii U needs hitstun akin to 64 IMO.

It needs hitstun, period.

 

[Codeblue]

64 had way too much of it though. Getting hit once or twice meant your stock was gone and there's nothing you could do about it.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

64 had way too much of it though. Getting hit once or twice meant your stock was gone and there's nothing you could do about it.

That's not true, especially with the DI in that game. I know I'm in the minority with this because of how popular it is, but Melee was too fast with too little hitstun with too much lagtime on attacks. You can be highly competitive with all 12 characters in 64, but the same can't be said for top level Melee. Take a look at some of the Apex 2012/13 matches. And team games get even crazier.

A balance between 64 and Melee would be ideal.

 

[Boss Doggie]

A balance between 64 and Melee would be ideal.

This man speaks the truth.

Actually more leaning to 64's physics.

 

[Shadow Hog]

That's not true, especially with the DI in that game. I know I'm in the minority with this because of how popular it is, but Melee was too fast with too little hitstun with too much lagtime on attacks. You can be highly competitive with all 12 characters in 64, but the same can't be said for top level Melee. Take a look at some of the Apex 2012/13 matches. And team games get even crazier.

Well, to be fair, it's a lot easier to balance 12 characters than it is 25...

 

[DICKS AHOY]

After playing Project M a bit more pointless revival of clones aside I am starting to hope SSB4's engine leans more towards Melee than the other two games. Only mechanics I'm missing in PM really is the lack of multiple air-dashes which don't cancel out the rest of your moves (don't see how this clashes with wavedashing at all) and while very situational toad-hopping was fun.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Well, to be fair, it's a lot easier to balance 12 characters than it is 25...

Oh that wasn't a dig, but while that's true only ~5-7 of those 26 are truly competitive and the development team had more experience going into Melee. Going from 64 to Melee was such a drastic change that it almost felt like a different game.

This man speaks the truth.

Actually more leaning to 64's physics.

Agreed. 64 is definitely a great starting point for the next Smash.

I'm down if anyone ever wants to play some 64 online. I love me some 2v2's B]

 

[User 73706]

I feel like there are a billion hunters from Metroid they could potentially add before Ridley, though. Rundas, Gandrayda, Kanden, Noxus...

As long as they outsource all the Metroid music in SSB4 and directly buy Harmony of a Hunter from the artists I'll be okay though.

 

[L Thammy]

I can't even remember the difference between 64's physics and Melee's, to be honest. But I do remember preferring 64's for whatever reason. I think it was better suited to time matches.


Does anyone have thoughts as to how Uprising will affect the new Smash? Considering that the bow isn't even Pit's starting weapon in that game, I could see Pit using different moves for different attacks. Or maybe Palutena having a moveset based of the other weapons.