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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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SF2 was kind of bad yeah, but I still bought it because NINJA DINOSAUR. I'm a very petty man.

Also, you owe it to yourself to try out SF3. It's the series' apex in about every way, with a story that actually isn't half bad, neat bosses, and the sorely missed return of the ability to take on forms based on bosses. I bought it new for 29.99 and I thought it was worth it.

As for ZXA; it's my favourite portable Megaman game. Beating the game on Expert was like an experience; and it helped me establish the zen-like state in which I play most of my hard games now. I'm so sad that the teased end to the trilogy never came to light :'(
 
A few ares are accessible only via teleporter, but that's the very last 2 or so areas of the game. The main world is inter-connected between each other, and freely explorable, although you won't be able to access certain areas without the right power-ups (just like in a Metroidvania), and one area is accessible only after you collect the 3 keys to it (which is like, the first main quest).
 

fisheyes

Member
re: Megaman moveset

Moves come from a mixture of different incarnations, BUT Standard B is the Mega Buster, but if you KO a character, it modifies slightly. It wouldn't be a unique modification for each character, instead characters would be grouped - KO'ing Bowser, Charizard, Captain Falcon, maybe Mario and Luigi would mean a fire based ability, KO'ing any sword user would produce the same result as each other, etcetera. There you go, keeps with his signature ability whilst not encroaching on any of Kirby's turf. I should be in charge of these games.
 

qq more

Member
re: Megaman moveset

Moves come from a mixture of different incarnations, BUT Standard B is the Mega Buster, but if you KO a character, it modifies slightly. It wouldn't be a unique modification for each character, instead characters would be grouped - KO'ing Bowser, Charizard, Captain Falcon, maybe Mario and Luigi would mean a fire based ability, KO'ing any sword user would produce the same result as each other, etcetera. There you go, keeps with his signature ability whilst not encroaching on any of Kirby's turf. I should be in charge of these games.
Ohhhhh. That sounds great! I like it.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Best Megaman
tkB76Kh.jpg
 

KevinCow

Banned
I've said it before, but Mega Man needs to be Classic, and all his moves - normals, smashes, and specials - need to be taken directly from robot master weapons. Like D-tilt would drop a search snake, D-air would drop a concrete block, U-tilt could shoot some gusts from Air Man's weapon to launch his opponent, U-smash could be Gravity Hold and work something like Jak's Mass Inverter in PSASBR... stuff like that.

Maybe they could even have some randomized elements for weapons that would work similarly. Like D-tilt could randomly choose between Bubble Lead, Search Snake, or Plug Ball. They'd all work identically, just with a different graphic.

Basically cram as many robot master weapons as possible in there.
 
re: Megaman moveset

Moves come from a mixture of different incarnations, BUT Standard B is the Mega Buster, but if you KO a character, it modifies slightly. It wouldn't be a unique modification for each character, instead characters would be grouped - KO'ing Bowser, Charizard, Captain Falcon, maybe Mario and Luigi would mean a fire based ability, KO'ing any sword user would produce the same result as each other, etcetera. There you go, keeps with his signature ability whilst not encroaching on any of Kirby's turf. I should be in charge of these games.

To be honest that actually sounds a lot more like Kirby than Megaman.

Kirby usually can take an enemy that is vaguely fire and then get the same fire ability.

Megaman was always very specific.

Maybe they should switch abilitys.
people would miss the hits though
 

I'M FINISHED!

Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
Or Capcom can give Smash "New Dante". It seemed to work wonders for that other game...
 

GamerSoul

Member
I only played the demo for All Stars but I think SuperBot should be commended for trying their best to foster a fanbase. It also had character DLC, which we still don't know if we'll have charcater dlc in this day in age.
 
re: Megaman moveset

Moves come from a mixture of different incarnations, BUT Standard B is the Mega Buster, but if you KO a character, it modifies slightly. It wouldn't be a unique modification for each character, instead characters would be grouped - KO'ing Bowser, Charizard, Captain Falcon, maybe Mario and Luigi would mean a fire based ability, KO'ing any sword user would produce the same result as each other, etcetera. There you go, keeps with his signature ability whilst not encroaching on any of Kirby's turf. I should be in charge of these games.

My only problem with that is in single-player modes like Classic and All-Star where you usually move on after the first KO, it'd be useless.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I honestly think AS would be much better if it copied Smash, but that's for another topic.

You think Pokemon deserve 6 slots? I sure do. Also I like how people are now spreading the hate of Lucario to Sonic and SSE. That should do the trick.
 

ffdgh

Member
I honestly think AS would be much better if it copied Smash, but that's for another topic.

You think Pokemon deserve 6 slots? I sure do. Also I like how people are now spreading the hate of Lucario to Sonic and SSE. That should do the trick.

Pokemon already has 6 if red's pokemon are counted seperately so lets go for 8 :D.

I love Lucario and sonic vs mario dream come true. SSE.....waste of resources and petey not being playable ;_;.
 

qq more

Member
SSE deserves the hate. It was overly ambitious. I mean.. it's a game mode that people are way more likely to play once and never again, and yet they've put in so much resource into it. Not to mention it was kind of boring. If they didn't focus so much on SSE then the roster could of have been a bit bigger.


I'm pretty okay with the roster as is (sad at the lack of Mewtwo though).
 

I'M FINISHED!

Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
If Pokemon Trainer get's new Pokemon I hope Charizard becomes a separate spot on the roster.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
But Charizard is terrible even in Brawl! Slow, slow attacks (even Ivysaur does better). Only thing going for it is its recovery.
 

Snakey

Member
Movie 16 is 'Extremespeed Genesect and the Reawakening of Mewtwo.'

I think this guarantees Mewtwo return (I already thought he was the single most likely "newcomer"). Mewtwo is probably the most wanted "newcomer" for Smash 4 overall.

Could it be that we do not even get a Pokemon newcomer this time?

I remember people yelling at me when I put Brawl's Pokemon + Mewtwo as Smash 4's playable Pokemon representation. Looks like its not such a far-fetched scenario afterall.
 

Ryce

Member
Could it be that we do not even get a Pokemon newcomer this time?
I wouldn't bet on it. We haven't even seen the sixth generation's main promotional mascot yet, and there's still the possibility of including somebody from Black/White. I could see one new generation skipped without a playable character, but two?
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I'm pretty sure most people are yelling at those wanting Lucario to be replaced and/or limiting Pokemon to a few slots.
 

Snakey

Member
I wouldn't bet on it. We haven't even seen the sixth generation's main promotional mascot yet, and there's still the possibility of including somebody from Black/White. I could see one new generation skipped without a playable character, but two?

The problem is that there won't be any Generation 6 mascot this year. 2013'S movie will center around Genesect and Mewtwo. Zoroark is now old news, in which Lucario now is promoted more than it. A Gen 6 mascot "might" happen in 2014, but by then the roster will have long been finalized, especially for a character that would likely have to be made to be completely unique.

Gen 5 is going to be old news by the time Smash 4 releases (late 2014), and Gen 6 does not have an appropriate choice.

Keep in mind we almost did not get a second-generation Pokemon in Melee, and Generation 3 was entirely skipped over.
 

Snakey

Member
What is a pichu? And since we're considering Mewtwo for Brawl, what is plusle-minun?

Please re-read what I wrote.

Almost did not get a second-generation Pokemon = Pichu only got in when Sakurai felt the rostere was too small and decided to add in six clones at the end of the game's development to beef it up.

Skipped over third-generation = there was no playable third-generation Pokemon in Brawl.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
You imply that they are ignored - the fact there are Pokemon of all gens for Pokeballs imply that that isn't the case. And again, Pichu is still playable. The argument for Brawl only works if you agree that Roy and Mewtwo aren't considered at all as well.

Honestly, it seems like you people just want Gen 1 mons in Smash.
 
The data left behind in Brawl for Roy & Mewtwo are considerably more complete than the data left behind for pra_mai. They aren't a one to one comparison.

And Snakey is right, they were going to originally have Melee with no new generation 2 representative, the decision to add Pichu was a late one as part of the six clones added to beef up the roster.

There is no reason that they couldn't make a new Smash Bros. without a new Pokemon. Not saying that they will just add Mewtwo and call it a day as Snakey would say, but there's no way you can say anything about Pokemon's representation definitively.
 
Regarding Pichu, what is important to consider is the fact that out of all the Melee characters that got cut, Pichu is the only one that was not found in the game's files, not even referenced. Everybody else (Dr. Mario, Roy and Mewtwo) had at least some references in the game.

Furthermore, everything points towards the direction that Mewtwo was going to be included up until some issue came up that made Sakurai cut it from the roster. It was the very last character to get removed from the planned roster, as it has the most leftover data.
 

fisheyes

Member
The problem is that there won't be any Generation 6 mascot this year. 2013'S movie will center around Genesect and Mewtwo. Zoroark is now old news, in which Lucario now is promoted more than it. A Gen 6 mascot "might" happen in 2014, but by then the roster will have long been finalized, especially for a character that would likely have to be made to be completely unique.

Gen 5 is going to be old news by the time Smash 4 releases (late 2014), and Gen 6 does not have an appropriate choice.

Keep in mind we almost did not get a second-generation Pokemon in Melee, and Generation 3 was entirely skipped over.

Why would you assume that Sakurai / the Smash development team wouldn't get to see the Pokemon Gamefreak / Pokemon Company have in mind to be the Gen 6 'mascot' ahead of time? Gamefreak / Pokemon Company would already have an idea of the Pokemon they want to really push in 2014 (through the movie and/or anime and/or merchandise and/or in-game), and chances are that is when Smash will come out, so all it would take is a little bit of forward planning and collaboration for the Pokemon to get extra exposure through Smash and for Smash to have a super relevant character on its roster at launch.
 

I'M FINISHED!

Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
But Charizard is terrible even in Brawl! Slow, slow attacks (even Ivysaur does better). Only thing going for it is its recovery.

Things will not be the same, they may get worse, they may get better. Now that we know that Sakurai won't be the only one tweaking the balancing I choose to remain optimistic.
 
The problem is that there won't be any Generation 6 mascot this year. 2013'S movie will center around Genesect and Mewtwo.

No, it's not that simple.

GF and Nintendo are GOING to promote the new games with, you guessed it, a new Pokemon. Regardless of how the movie plays out.

The first gen 2 Movies didn't STAR Pichu ... but they did a ton of other stuff to promote Pichu as the gen mascot. Same for P&M. We haven't seen the movie so we don't know what to expect. For all we know Mewtwo could be chilling with a 6th gen Pokemon that turns out to be the promo Pokemon for the 6th gen. For all we know they could make a "new form" for Mewtwo and use that to promote the 6th gen. Or heck, maybe the new Eevee evols are the mascots seeing as it seems that there may be a 2nd one that's yet to be revealed.

And on top pf that GF is going to have known what Pokemon it going to be the "mascot" for some time now and they're gonna want that Pokemon in smash to take up the "latest gen spot". So yeah, the way I see it it's gonna be Pikachu/ Jiggs (...:/)/ PT/ Mewtwo and gen 6 mascot.
 

Snakey

Member
The full title of the movie is Extreme Speed Genesect and the Re-awakening of Mewtwo. There won't be a major 6th-gen Pokemon this year.

Also, the new Eevee-evolution was already unveiled. Its not a Pokemon fit for fighting.

I still say the chances for a 5th or 6th gen Pokemon are bleaker than people here think, but a lot of people here seem to be emotionally invested in the idea that Sakurai HAS to use a flavor-of-the-month Pokemon.
 
The full title of the movie is Extreme Speed Genesect and the Re-awakening of Mewtwo. There won't be a major 6th-gen Pokemon this year.

Also, the new Eevee-evolution was already unveiled. Its not a Pokemon fit for fighting.

I still say the chances for a 5th or 6th gen Pokemon are bleaker than people here think, but a lot of people here seem to be emotionally invested in the idea that Sakurai HAS to use a flavor-of-the-month Pokemon.

Movie: I said that they could very well also have the Pokemon they're gonna use to promote the 6th gen in the movie, chilling with Mewtwo. Didn't say said Pokemon would be the STAR over Mewtwo, just that it could very likely appear in the movie. Like I pointd out, Pichu was the gen 2 mascot and P&M were the 3rd gen Mascots ... and neither got a feature film devoted to them. The title "mascot" goes to the Pokemon of w/e gen that's most oftentimes used to promote that gen. With the 6th gen games a few months away there IS gonna be a "mascot" for it regardless.

Eevee: Hummm, Amaterasu and Ivy would like a word with you. Yeah, normally eevee evols wouldn't work. But what Ninfia, Amaterasu and Ivy all have in common is that they have appendages that can act as arms/ hands or a way to attack/ block. And looking at the scan and the design is seems she reps the X chromosome and there may be an unrevealed Y counterpart. (From what I remember they normally bring in eevee evols in pairs)

And no, I really don't see nintendo or GF skipping out on putting in a rep for the first 3D Pokemon game and the LATEST game for the NEWEST generation of fans.
 

McNum

Member
Played a bit of Brawl today, for old time's sake, and it's still pretty fun, even if I'm really rusty. I could hardly even remember what half of the characters were capable of. I know Marth can do more than I did with him, but... Ah well, was fun flailing around like an idiot anyway. I do worry a little what the game will play like without the Gamecube controller, but I'm sure the next Smash will be adapted to the 3DS/Wii U standard controllers well enough. As long as there's an analog stick, an A and B button, a jump and a trigger for shield, it'll work out. the 3DS and Wii U gamepad have all of that.

As for characters, I'm beginning to worry about Lucas, actually. I like Lucas in Brawl, I'm still somewhat decent with him, but I can't see why he'd be in the next Smash. Mother 3 was never released internationally, and we have Ness as the face of the Mother franchise. There's a chance that Lucas will get Roy'd. He's there to promote a new game in a series that already has its main mascot there. Lucas, like Roy, is now old news.

I'd say the same for Falco, but he has seniority. But unless Star Fox does something soon, he's kind of just there. I'm fairly sure he's staying, though. Like Jigglypuff and Luigi, he's the usual unlockable character. Unless Wolf takes over that spot from him. Falco's biggest worry is Wolf, because I'd bet Wolf is here to stay.

But Brawl is still a game with an extreme amount of content, and if there's one thing I hope for the next one, it's that it follows suit. Multiple modes of play, a lot of stages, more music that you'd ever need, and a ton of playable characters. I do want to keep Sonic there, but I can go either way with Snake. Sonic fighting Mario just has a bit more appeal to me than Snake vs. Nintendo.

It's getting hard to think of any newcomers that are really missing. I'd like a staff fighter, but that's either a lanceman from Fire Emblem or Krystal we're looking at then. Still, Smash could do with a staff wielder. Also Ridley, because he's, well, Ridley. It's a new game, give it a shot. Chrom from Fire Emblem Awakening is most likely there, question will then be, will Ike be there, too? Little Mac might be fun, too, if they can make a full boxing moveset. Personally, I hope for Shulk for an outside bet. The Monado powers are easily an entire A and B moveset on their own, and if Shulk is there, the Xenoblade soundtrack will be following him. And that would be so awesome to have in Smash.
 

Snakey

Member
For a staff fighter, the most likely candidate is Palutena. For a lance user, its Waddle Dee (Bandana).

Also, Black-Wind, there is no evidence to suggest that we are getting a 6th-gen mascot any time soon. This seems to be all about your pride, and a fear of being proven wrong (again). If there is a 6th-gen Pokemon in this year's movie, it will be something akin to Munchlax. If there was going to be a major 6th-gen Pokemon in the movie, it would be in the movie's title, like what has happened with practically every other Pokemon movie.

As for Lucas, he is just as much as old news as Ike, and unlike Ike, Lucas's game actually sold decently in Japan. I think we will get both Ness and Lucas in Smash 4.
 
I don't think the movies are necessarily decisive evidence that we won't be getting a Gen 6 rep in Smash. Probable, maybe, but not definitive.
 

McNum

Member
For a staff fighter, the most likely candidate is Palutena. For a lance user, its Waddle Dee (Bandana).

Also, Black-Wind, there is no evidence to suggest that we are getting a 6th-gen mascot any time soon. This seems to be all about your pride, and a fear of being proven wrong (again). If there is a 6th-gen Pokemon in this year's movie, it will be something akin to Munchlax. If there was going to be a major 6th-gen Pokemon in the movie, it would be in the movie's title, like what has happened with practically every other Pokemon movie.

As for Lucas, he is just as much as old news as Ike, and unlike Ike, Lucas's game actually sold decently in Japan. I think we will get both Ness and Lucas in Smash 4.
Right, Palutena, I forgot about her. Yeah, she'd do fine as a magic-heavy staff fighter. As long as she still gets to whack someone on the head with her staff, I'm good. Waddle Dee, I just don't see happening. That's kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Ike has one advantage over Lucas concerning recent appearances:
He's in Fire Emblem: Awakening as DLC and so is his descendant
. Mother 3 may has sold decently in Japan, but Mother as a series is dead globally. If someone is going to get cut to make room for new characters, Lucas would be one of the candidates. Fire Emblem Awakening is apparently selling better than expected, both in Japan and the US. I hope it'll see the same success in Europe.
 

Snakey

Member
Right, Palutena, I forgot about her. Yeah, she'd do fine as a magic-heavy staff fighter. long as she still gets to whack someone on the head with her staff, I'm good. Waddle Dee, IAs just don't see happening. That's kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Ike has one advantage over Lucas concerning recent appearances:
He's in Fire Emblem: Awakening as DLC and so is his descendant
. Mother 3 may has sold decently in Japan, but Mother as a series is dead globally. If someone is going to get cut to make room for new characters, Lucas would be one of the candidates. Fire Emblem Awakening is apparently selling better than expected, both in Japan and the US. I hope it'll see the same success in Europe.

Waddle Dee was a major character in a very well-received (both in sales and in reviews) recent Kirby game. He is underrated in terms of his chances.

Also, if you are going to cite Ike showing up as DLC as to the reason he is going to return, then cite Roy being DLC as well.

Also, Mother 3 will at least be released for the Virtual Console in Japan (they are planning to start releasing GBA games for the Virtual Console in April). I would say being the star of a game available for purchase beats being a DLC character.

I actually think Ike and ROB may be the only two characters without a source material game available for ready purchase by the time Smash 4 is released.
 

McNum

Member
I know Roy shows up as DLC, too. And in an interesting dual wielding design, too. Smash could use a dual wielder other than Pit. Ike does have the edge on Roy in DLC, though, as (Unreleased DLC/Spotpass spoilers)
one of the Spotpass missions lets you recruit Ike's descendant who comes with Ragnell as proof of that.
Do note that I did mention Ike in danger if Chrom is in. Burly Lord with a big sword and Aether? Yup. Chrom could even pack a bow since he can reclass into Archer. Or be a tag team character to show off the Pair Up move of Awakening.

ROB is interesting, he's clearly Brawl's surprise character like Mr. Game and Watch was for Melee. I don't really care either way about ROB, but as a Nintendo history curiosity, I'm thinking he's safe. He's going to be a hard one to top in craziness, though. Where do you go for weird, but strangely logical picks after Mr. G&W and ROB?

Speaking of Fire Emblem, I do have a crazy idea for a character, but she'd probably be better off as an Assist trophy since she pretty much only has one gimmick. The character is, of course, Tiki. The original Manakete. Pop the trophy, she appears next to you and transforms into a dragon. Which then does what dragons do best. Who says all dragons should come from a Pokéball?
 

Thores

Member
Every so often I'm going to introduce a potential "unexpected" newcomer that I feel is on some level plausible. I'll try to focus on characters that rarely (if ever) get brought up. Between Sheik, Ice Climbers, Zero Suit Samus, and Pokémon Trainer, Sakurai likes to surprise us with unexpected characters who utilize unique fighting/transformation mechanics.

BpQZB.png


Why Eevee?
  • Eevee is the main character's Pokémon in Pokémon Conquest
  • Eevee is your rival's main Pokémon in Pokémon Yellow
  • Eevee is the star of the upcoming short movie "Pikachu and Eevee Friends"
  • There's a rumor going around that said movie will introduce a brand new evolution from the next generation
  • Its evolutionary forms represent three generations of Pokémon games

When choosing Eevee on the character select screen, you must also select an evolutionary stone: Water Stone, Thunderstone, Fire Stone, Sun Shard (hidden), Moon Shard (hidden), Moss Rock (hidden), Ice Rock (hidden), or random. This determines which form Eevee can evolve into during the fight. If you don't like this idea, then perhaps the various stones can be "discovered" during gameplay while fighting as Eevee.

Obviously, Eevee is the slowest and weakest of all the forms, so you're going to want to evolve.

m9hjx.png


Attack the opponent to build up your level bar.

XBiAf.png


When your level bar maxes out, it will light up and pulsate. Use your Down Special Move to level up and trigger the short evolution cutscene.

While eight characters in one might seem like a lot, all "Eeveelutions" share the same core move set -- they are essentially Melee-style clones. Various attributes (speed, weight, power, etc.) differ between them, and certain attacks are imbued with unique properties; some of Jolteon's attacks might shock the enemy while Flareon's might burn them.

Just bringing this post back because I thought it was a novel idea before, but now I think it actually might happen.
 

McNum

Member
Just bringing this post back because I thought it was a novel idea before, but now I think it actually might happen.
It's no longer a rumor that we'll get a new Eeveelution in X and Y, by the way. New one is called "Ninfia" at least in Japan.

And yeah, playable Eevee that evolves would be a novel idea. With each generation adding a new evolution to Eevee, it's kind of the link that binds all Pokémon generations together. Would Eevee need to re-evovle after being KO'd? It could be interesting if each stock was a different evolution. Maybe have it so they're each suited to fight a particular kind of opponent, so skillful Eevee play would be to tailor yor evolution to the enemy. Since taunting uses all four D-pad directions, maybe left/right could change stones instead.
 
Just bringing this post back because I thought it was a novel idea before, but now I think it actually might happen.

I'd love it if they did something like this. It seems really complicated in theory, but if they pull it off I'd main Eevee all day every day.
 
Also, Black-Wind, there is no evidence to suggest that we are getting a 6th-gen mascot any time soon. This seems to be all about your pride, and a fear of being proven wrong (again).
Sooo you mean to tell me that GF is not going to focus on any singular 6th gen Pokemon in the coming months to promote the brand new generation of Pokemon that's being released in 8 months? Ok, believe what you want.

And excuse me?!? Wrong again? Who here was being called a nut in this very thread for saying all signs point to there being a new gen of Pokemon revealed and released in 2013? Hell, who was the one pointing out the massive amounts of Mewtwo being featured in merch (D-Arts for one. It's a big thing many people here over looked) as a sign that he's gonna be relevant to the new movie or at least in some way be apart of the anime?

I'm wrong about a lot of things, I'm the first to point that out. But when it comes to Pokemon ... yeah, it's very much my main gaming topic. I can say without a doubt that there is gonna be a Pokemon that's featured more predominantly than others in the coming months in an attempt to promote the new games. As of now we know only 6 of the 100 or so new Pokemon we're getting in Oct ... we're gonna get a ton of reveals in the coming months and even then they're gonna try to keep many for players to discover in the games. That Pokemon can very well be this new Eevee evol seeing how Eevee Crazy they have been lately on Pokemon Smash and in the merchandise area.


If there is a 6th-gen Pokemon in this year's movie, it will be something akin to Munchlax. If there was going to be a major 6th-gen Pokemon in the movie, it would be in the movie's title, like what has happened with practically every other Pokemon movie..
We already know of 6 new Pokemon, 4 of which can appear in the movie and one of which has it's own anime short. There won't be "a 6th gen Pokemon" ... pretty sure there's gonna be more than one.

And sorry but not all gen mascots have been the focus of a feature film. Pichu has never been a main star of a film but has been the star of it's own line of shorts ... which make's this new Eevee interesting seeing as it's the main character of the short this year.
 
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