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[I'M FINISHED!]

If there is nothing for Nintendo to gain then I see no reason for them to indirectly promote other consoles by advertising a character that won't appear on their hardware.

 

[Gattuso]

it's not like he can't have another game on a Nintendo console ever again but a port or something is the only deal I can see them making if they do decide to keep him for another round.

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

I don't even think it necessarily needs to be Metal Gear Solid related, I am just saying that that this isn't a one way street. Having a character featured in one of the biggest video game franchises is a huge plus for Konami, Nintendo should leverage their hand and demand something. I am sure there are other companies that would be willing to strike a deal that has mutual benefits.

 

[Gattuso]

having them get a character in smash in exchange for some Wii u support is what they should do.
what are some 3rd party characters that would fit in really well or have the most fan support getting in other than the usual ones that are always mentioned in here?

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

I am not really a 3rd party character Smash advocate. So I may not be the best person to ask. But getting ports of Metal Gear Solid 4 and Ground Zeroes in exchange for the inclusion of Snake, or getting ports of Super Street Fighter IV and Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 in exchange for the inclusion of Ryu doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I do think that in theoretical negotiations between parties an exclusive Wii U title should take priority, two ports should be the bare minimum compromise.

 

[Akibastman]

I don't understand all the people that want Palutena or Ridley as playable characters. I mean one's a goddess, the other one is a giant monster. Why would you want shrinked nerfed version of them ? Can someone explain that to me ?

And GAF, who do you think will be new in the roster objectively and realistically ? (So not based on what you want but based on logic and deduction)

I think:

1 new Mario character (Daisy? Toad ? Waluigi ? Shy Guy ?)
Dixie Kong
Little Mac
1 Animal Crossing (Player ? Tom Nook ?)
Xenoblade dude.
Prof Layton
1 Golden Sun character (Isaac ?)
1 new Fire Emblem Character
1 new Pokemon
Pac Man
Bayonetta

 

[SkyOdin]

I don't understand all the people that want Palutena or Ridley as playable characters. I mean one's a goddess, the other one is a giant monster. Why would you want shrinked nerfed version of them ? Can someone explain that to me ?

First of all, Palutena is human sized, and has been since the original Kid Icarus. Further discussion of her involves some Kid Icarus: Uprising spoilers.

Spoiler

Notably, Palutena is actually a boss in Kid Icarus: Uprising, so she is both someone that Pit can beat in a fight, and she has a combat moveset. It involves magic and lasers. Really, Pit beats down so many gods and goddesses in his games that saying "Palutena is goddess, so she doesn't fit it" doesn't work very well.

Ridley is a character that I never really understood the demand for, so I will let someone else explain him. Personally I think he was used perfectly in Brawl, and would be satisfied to see him remain a boss.

 

[Red Arremer]

First of all, Metroid needs more characters. It's one of the biggest franchises of Nintendo, and unlike many other franchises that are much less important, Metroid still is stuck with one and a half character (in terms of roster size at least).
However, since there's really not many notable names to pull from a series that mostly focuses on a sole bounty hunter crawling through the depths of a few planets, there's not really many solid choices to make from the good character side, so we'd have to look at the villains. Ridley is the best choice for a few reasons.

For one, he's in every single iteration of Metroid, save like 3 games - Metroid 2, Metroid Prime 2 and Metroid Prime Hunters. Thus he has more appearances than any other villain of the series, except the namesake of the series itself (which in fact would not make a good character, since all Metroids do is latch onto people and draining their life).

Second, he is considered to be Samus' arch-nemesis. He was the one responsible for the destruction of her homeworld and the death of her friends and family. And he is the adversary who just refuses to die; time and time again, Samus has to face Ridley and defeat him. If anybody could be considered being the main recurring bad guy of the Metroid series, it's Ridley.

Third, while he generally is depicted as being bigger than Samus, he has also been depicted as being just a little bigger - most notably in the intro of Melee, where he is roughly the same size as Samus is. Since Smash grows or shrinks characters at its own leisure (being not canon and all), there is nothing speaking against the game changing Ridley's size to accommodate the mechanics. And, after all, there's several characters that hulk over others, such as Bowser or Ganondorf, so you could still make him bigger than the majority of the cast.

Fourth, he has great potential for a moveset - we have yet to see a more feral, flying creature like Ridley in Smash.

And finally, he has been making non-playable cameos in the Smash series since its very first iteration.

 

[J-Tier]

First of all, Metroid needs more characters. It's one of the biggest franchises of Nintendo, and unlike many other franchises that are much less important, Metroid still is stuck with one and a half character (in terms of roster size at least).
However, since there's really not many notable names to pull from a series that mostly focuses on a sole bounty hunter crawling through the depths of a few planets, there's not really many solid choices to make from the good character side, so we'd have to look at the villains. Ridley is the best choice for a few reasons.

For one, he's in every single iteration of Metroid, save like 3 games - Metroid 2, Metroid Prime 2 and Metroid Prime Hunters. Thus he has more appearances than any other villain of the series, except the namesake of the series itself (which in fact would not make a good character, since all Metroids do is latch onto people and draining their life).

Second, he is considered to be Samus' arch-nemesis. He was the one responsible for the destruction of her homeworld and the death of her friends and family. And he is the adversary who just refuses to die; time and time again, Samus has to face Ridley and defeat him. If anybody could be considered being the main recurring bad guy of the Metroid series, it's Ridley.

Third, while he generally is depicted as being bigger than Samus, he has also been depicted as being just a little bigger - most notably in the intro of Melee, where he is roughly the same size as Samus is. Since Smash grows or shrinks characters at its own leisure (being not canon and all), there is nothing speaking against the game changing Ridley's size to accommodate the mechanics. And, after all, there's several characters that hulk over others, such as Bowser or Ganondorf, so you could still make him bigger than the majority of the cast.

Fourth, he has great potential for a moveset - we have yet to see a more feral, flying creature like Ridley in Smash.

And finally, he has been making non-playable cameos in the Smash series since its very first iteration.

I agree with all of these points. Thorough, everything I'd have said and more.

 

[MAtgS]

Personally I suspect they'll make Adam playable, he has 3 appearances counting the manga adaptation of ZM & the

Spoiler

AI

in Fusion.

 

[DaBoss]

But Adam doesn't really have a moveset. Ridley has potential. Probably is one of my most wanted characters.

 

[Gattuso]

Personally I want to see the other bounty hunters from prime 3 try to make it in. But they were only in that one game though.

 

[Red Arremer]

Personally I want to see the other bounty hunters from prime 3 try to make it in. But they were only in that one game though.

Gandrayda was okay.
There's more characters in Prime Hunters, but to be honest, I don't think any of them should be added before Ridley.

 

[Boss Doggie]

But Adam doesn't really have a moveset. Ridley has potential. Probably is one of my most wanted characters.

Adam can de-authorize his enemies or trap them in rooms.

 

[Gattuso]

Adam can de-authorize his enemies or trap them in rooms.

lol that makes him sound more like a stage hazard or a trophy item rather than a character.
Edit: he can use his de authorizing powers to stop others from using certain moves for a set period of time as a trophy or something

 

[Heropon]

Adam can de-authorize his enemies or trap them in rooms.

Adam: Can't let you do that, Star Fox!

He also has a bonus attacking from behind.

 

[Professor Beef]

But Adam doesn't really have a moveset. Ridley has potential. Probably is one of my most wanted characters.

Ridley is too big, though.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Ridley is too big, though.

Shush, you are trying to pull us into Smash Cycle.

 

[RawkHawk2010]

Damn, he got banned. I wonder how long would he being banned for. I betacha 1 week.

Close enough.

Anyway, one pro-Ridley argument is that Ridley's bigness shouldn't disqualify him when Bowser's bigness didn't do the same for him. But while Bowser doesn't have to be scary (and in many Mario games isn't intended to be), Ridley HAS to be scary. Ridley is supposed to be this life-threatening foreign menace that towers over Samus and anyone else her size.

Anything to screw that up would be a disservice. (Not that I'd really care, but eh.)

 

[astarisborn94]

Can we please stop using the size argument against Ridley? Sakurai never mentioned it as an issue and let's be honest here, that's the least of whatever problem Ridley has in getting into Smash Bros.

Why would "random" have a character effects folder? That's a few lines of coding located in a completely different part of the disc. Moreover, why would a random select folder be named "Pra_Mai"? That's very obviously "Prasuru & Mainan."

Because if they were going to act as a sort of a transformation character, wouldn't it make sense for them to have separate files? I mean, the Pokémon Trainer has separate files for each of their Pokémons. Zelda and Sheik also had separate files as well as Samus and Zero Suit Samus.

 

[Ryce]

Because if they were going to act as a sort of a transformation character, wouldn't it make sense for them to have separate files? I mean, the Pokémon Trainer has separate files for each of their Pokémons. Zelda and Sheik also had separate files as well as Samus and Zero Suit Samus.

Plusle & Minun definitely wouldn't have been a transformation character -- they'd have been more along the lines of the Ice Climbers. But even then, we have absolutely no idea of what they would have played like, so there's no point in speculating. All I know is that "Pra & Mai" is a very sensible Japanese abbreviation of Plusle & Minun, whereas "pra_mai" has not once been uttered in the history of the Japanese language as any sort of terminology for "random," "all players," et cetera. Someone threw that theory out there and it stuck for some reason, but it has absolutely no basis in reality.

 

[Black-Wind]

Because if they were going to act as a sort of a transformation character, wouldn't it make sense ...

They never made it into the game so we have no clue HOW Sakurai planned on making them work.

But that's because you already have Pikachu.

We already have Fox, Adult Link and Ness so what's your point?

 

[SenorArdilla]

Can we please stop using the size argument against Ridley? Sakurai never mentioned it as an issue and let's be honest here, that's the least of whatever problem Ridley has in getting into Smash Bros.Because if they were going to act as a sort of a transformation character, wouldn't it make sense for them to have separate files? I mean, the Pokémon Trainer has separate files for each of their Pokémons. Zelda and Sheik also had separate files as well as Samus and Zero Suit Samus.

But he did mention that Ridley might be a little slow and joked about it.

I think that would probably be pretty impossible. [Laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that be all right? [Laughs]

On the subject of Plusle and Minun, I believed Sakurai might of had some sort of tag-team mechanic planned for Diddy and Dixie. It was apparently too difficult for the team to create. P&M might have worked similarly to them if he got it to work. I just guessing though.

 

[RawkHawk2010]

Can we please stop using the size argument against Ridley? Sakurai never mentioned it as an issue and let's be honest here, that's the least of whatever problem Ridley has in getting into Smash Bros.

Sakurai doesn't have to mention something as an issue for it to be easily infer-able.

 

[Professor Beef]

Can we please stop using the size argument against Ridley? Sakurai never mentioned it as an issue and let's be honest here, that's the least of whatever problem Ridley has in getting into Smash Bros.

You're new here, aren't you?

 

[Red Arremer]

Plusle & Minun definitely wouldn't have been a transformation character -- they'd have been more along the lines of the Ice Climbers. But even then, we have absolutely no idea of what they would have played like, so there's no point in speculating. All I know is that "Pra & Mai" is a very sensible Japanese abbreviation of Plusle & Minun, whereas "pra_mai" has not once been uttered in the history of the Japanese language as any sort of terminology for "random," "all players," et cetera. Someone threw that theory out there and it stuck for some reason, but it has absolutely no basis in reality.

If they would've been a character like the ICs, they would've had separate folders as well. Popo and Nana have separate folders.
If it was going to be Plusle & Minun, they would've been one single character with one model, not 2 individual ones.
Even Olimar's Pikmin have their own folder.

 

[Ryce]

If they would've been a character like the ICs, they would've had separate folders as well. Popo and Nana have separate folders.
If it was going to be Plusle & Minun, they would've been one single character with one model, not 2 individual ones.
Even Olimar's Pikmin have their own folder.

Plusle & Minun didn't make the final cut, so there's no need for a second folder. Who's to say the Ice Climbers didn't start out as a single folder before expanding into a second when it became necessary? If I remember correctly, Nana's folder barely has anything in it. Besides, it's possible to play as Popo without Nana, so there are technically two possible characters there (solo and tandem). Plusle & Minun could've been constantly attached without any desyncing. We don't know.

Statistically speaking, it's nearly impossible that "pra_mai" would be anything but Plusle & Minun. They're the promotional mascot characters of the third generation -- it can't merely be coincidence that there would be a mystery character folder named after their abbreviated Japanese names. Young Link and Pichu are also the only missing Melee characters, and Toon Link serves as Young Link's replacement. Plusle & Minun would be Pichu's replacement.

Really, I'm as confident that "pra_mai" is Plusle & Minun as I am that "dixie" is Dixie Kong. There aren't any sensible alternatives.

 

[Red Arremer]

Plusle & Minun didn't make the final cut, so there's no need for a second folder. Who's to say the Ice Climbers didn't start out as a single folder before expanding into a second when it became necessary? If I remember correctly, Nana's folder barely has anything in it. Besides, it's possible to play as Popo without Nana, so there are technically two possible characters there (solo and tandem). Plusle & Minun could've been constantly attached without any desyncing. We don't know.

Nana's folder has everything about Nana in it - her model, her attacks, her voice files, her color schemes. Everything.

And yes, they might've been attached to each other (e.g. holding hands or something), but as you say, we don't know.

Statistically speaking, it's nearly impossible that "pra_mai" would be anything but Plusle & Minun.

Statistically? What statistics are you referring to?
We don't know what pra_mai is supposed to be. I also believe it's Plusle & Minun, but you are saying this with way too much confidence when there's no concrete evidence of them being that mysterious character.
It's LIKELY, yes. It's even very likely. But it's not 100% sure or impossible that it could be NOBODY else.

Young Link and Pichu are also the only missing Melee characters, and Toon Link serves as Young Link's replacement.

Toon Link is merely a graphical (and nominal) update to Young Link. They're still essentially the same character.

There aren't any sensible alternatives.

But that's exactly what we don't know. If there aren't any sensible alternatives. We know nothing about the process of the characters that were in development, why they were scrapped.
The only guesses we can make is who it is based on the names, but pra_mai could be anything, really. Just like the mysterious "mushroom forest" track on the music list could be the SMRPG track, but also from Mario Party or Mario & Luigi, which both have a music track similarly named.
And the second guess we can make is about when they were cut, and pra_mai was the first character to go. It might as well have been some sort of placeholder.

 

[Ryce]

It's LIKELY, yes. It's even very likely. But it's not 100% sure or impossible that it could be NOBODY else.

Who else could it be? I'm not trying to be facetious. Nothing else makes a lick of sense. If we're positive that "roy" is Fire Emblem's Roy, then why aren't we positive that "pra_mai" is Plusle & Minun? Because their names aren't fully spelled out? Japanese abbreviations are syllabic; "pra" is the first part of Plusle's name and "mai" is the first part of Minun. The underscore obviously denotes separate words.

Toon Link is merely a graphical (and nominal) update to Young Link. They're still essentially the same character.

Wind Waker Link and OOT Link are far from the same character. If you're comparing them from a gameplay perspective, then Pichu and Plusle & Minun could very possibly be "essentially the same character," too. Sakurai could've slapped two Pichus next to each other for all we know.

 

[Green Mamba]

Toon Link is merely a graphical (and nominal) update to Young Link. They're still essentially the same character.

Toon Link is a sort of similar concept to Young Link but is not the same character really at all. They're less similar to one another than Mario and Dr. Mario are.

 

[Boss Doggie]

We already have Fox, Adult Link and Ness so what's your point?

But unlike Pichu, their respective "clones" aren't related at all. Yeah sure Falco works with Fox and Wolf works on Fox but they're different people. Lucas is a different protagonist altogether. Can't defend Link though since not a Zelda fan.

But Pichu is just that - a baby Pikachu. Kinda like how you have Mario and Baby Mario.

 

[astarisborn94]

Never said that Ridley didn't have issues fitting in. I am well aware that Ridley's main barrier to get in is the difficulties surrounding his frame work and whenever or not Sakurai reconsiders him. But considering that re-sizing occurs on a regular basis in the Smash game (after all, Olimar isn't the size of a quarter in Brawl), I don't think Ridley's size will prove to be an issue.

 

[Azure J]

As soon as I saw that post mention Star Tropics, I immediately thought "Azure is gonna string this guy up if he's wrong." :lol

Late but I'm glad that my reputation as GAF's biggest (only) StarTropics hype man that isn't AceBanadge tier... "eccentric" precedes me. :lol

 

[Black-Wind]

But unlike Pichu, their respective "clones" aren't related at all. Yeah sure Falco works with Fox and Wolf works on Fox but they're different people. Lucas is a different protagonist altogether. Can't defend Link though since not a Zelda fan.

But Pichu is just that - a baby Pikachu. Kinda like how you have Mario and Baby Mario.

Gonna tie this into the P+M talk that was (maybe still?) going on in this page. (And yes, all Links have the same "soul". All Zeldas are related by blood and Ganon is neither ... he's simply a bad guy that can't die so he's the same person in all games)

As for the others, it seems clear to me that Sakurai sees clones like most fighting games see clones ... as a chance to play on the established move sets. Just look at "Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik". There is NO CANON "Toon Sheik". There has never been a Sheik Zelda in the Toon Series games. It, just like "TP Sheik", would have been a fictional rendition of a character made just for Smash so that Zelda could have her " Toon Clones" like Link.

So, lets look at what changed between Melee and brawl.
2 new gens of games come out. And though Pichu is still a massively popular Pokemon and marketed a ton ... he's not planned for Brawl.
YL is also not Planned For Brawl. HOWEVER, we end up with "Toon Link" which is basically YL but updated to toon style much like how OoT Link is in TP style.
And on top of that we get P+M in the files (along with Toon Zelda and so on).
P+M are the 3rd gen Pikachu-Pokemon ... the 3rd gen being one of the gens that came out between Melee and Brawl.

So with a bit of simple guessing I would say that it seems that Sakurai wanted to rep the missing newer gens and wanted to replace the very popular Pichu with a Newer, More relevant Clone for Pikachu. And as i have pointed out before, Pichu's track record in game importance and series marketing crap all over Lucario's so I really wouldn't be shocked if we get Emolga (5th gen Pikachu Pokemon that could play as a clone) and Newtwo/ Sylveon/ some other 6th gen rep for Smash 4 that replaces Lucario's "newest guy" spot.
It actually makes prefect sense. If 2 gens pop between games then in order to rep both you take the mascot of the newest gen and the Pikachu clone of the later gen that didn't get rep.

 

[Boss Doggie]

But pika-clones aren't particularly big compared to the rest.

 

[Black-Wind]

But pika-clones aren't particularly big compared to the rest.

What do you mean "compared to the rest"?

 

[Boss Doggie]

What do you mean "compared to the rest"?

Like, their appeal is mostly towards females which, while part of the demographic of Pokemon, isn't really that big compared to the boys iirc

 

[Akibastman]

Never said that Ridley didn't have issues fitting in. I am well aware that Ridley's main barrier to get in is the difficulties surrounding his frame work and whenever or not Sakurai reconsiders him. But considering that re-sizing occurs on a regular basis in the Smash game (after all, Olimar isn't the size of a quarter in Brawl), I don't think Ridley's size will prove to be an issue.

Yeah but, the size ratio between characters of the same universe is more or less respected. (Mario/Bowser, Kirby/Dedede, Link/Ganondorf, ...). If Ridley is going to respect that scale, he's going to be the tallest and largest character with a hitbox twice as big as the Brawl characters'. Even if he's "Melee intro" sized.

 

[Black-Wind]

Like, their appeal is mostly towards females which, while part of the demographic of Pokemon, isn't really that big compared to the boys iirc

Actually, Pokemon's demo is one of those rare series where it's split 50-50 between genders. Heck, I remember that being on the global link site sometime ago.

Just look at the Pokemon ... Victini was asked by Masuda to be design to appeal more to girls than to boys. Just look at the CURRENT 6th gen pokemon ... "cute" has always been a major note they try to strike.

 

[SuperAngelo64]

Holy shit. Ridley size discussion. This feels like 2007. I can't wait for the Dojo updates. I missed you, smash gaf.

Let's go find Jiggy.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Actually, Pokemon's demo is one of those rare series where it's split 50-50 between genders. Heck, I remember that being on the global link site sometime ago.

Just look at the Pokemon ... Victini was asked by Masuda to be design to appeal more to girls than to boys. Just look at the CURRENT 6th gen pokemon ... "cute" has always been a major note they try to strike.

True.

Still, I wouldn't really think Lucario would be cut. Surely he got more usage than Mewtwo or Pichu (because of their terrible moveset in Melee)?

 

[KevinCow]

When (not if) Ridley's playable, they should just make him as stupid huge as his Super Metroid incarnation. Or, you know, as big as he was as a boss in Brawl.

TOP TIER MOTHERFUCKERS.

 

[Regulus Tera]

All I really want is Isa from Sin and Punishment 2. Give him limited flight controls and he would be one of the coolest characters in a while. I know this won't be happening, of course.

So who are we expecting to be the Bandai Namco character? Pac-Man?

 

[PaperFlame]

Am I the only person that wants him in this game?

 

[SmithnCo]

All I really want is Isa from Sin and Punishment 2. Give him limited flight controls and he would be one of the coolest characters in a while. I know this won't be happening, of course.

So who are we expecting to be the Bandai Namco character? Pac-Man?

Yeah, I want Saki or Isa. They both have obvious final smashes too.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Yeah, I want Saki or Isa. They both have obvious final smashes too.

I wanna believe that the only reason Saki was an assist character in Brawl was that Sakurai didn't have enough time for his character and there were more important people to put in the roster.

I wanna believe.

 

[BGBW]

Am I the only person that wants him in this game?
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120403201234/mario/es/images/0/06/Wart.jpg

As long as his victory theme is one of the best Mario clear themes in history. It deserves more love.

 

[Red Arremer]

Wart and his cronies generally need more recognition.

 

[Kjellson]

Am I the only person that wants him in this game?

It would be funny if the character who was Mario in Doki Doki Panic was in this game.

 

[RawkHawk2010]

Am I the only person that wants him in this game?

I like Wart, but having him in would almost assuredly mean no K. Rool.

And we can't have that.