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The fact we didn't get Radiant Dawn Ike is a travesty.
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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition
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The fact we didn't get Radiant Dawn Ike is a travesty.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Because whoever's job it is to put Pokemon characters in Smash has as little knowledge about the series as they can get by with. Don't several of the Pokemon know moves they shouldn't?
InvincibleAgent
Member
Adding extra moves is not as bad as not including standard features.
And isn't Radiant Dawn Ike the same thing but with his sleeves ripped off?
Almost every character has good potential for alts. I'd take more characters of course but alts could easily make for more visual variety. Especially if some of the moves were changed like fireball > pill for Dr. Mario.
Radiant Dawn alt for Ike comes to mind, if they wanted for variety they could use his Vanguard armor from that game.
edit: haha, I just saw some mods people have made for Brawl, some of it is crazy looking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEU-0LoX7no
Radiant Dawn alt for Ike comes to mind, if they wanted for variety they could use his Vanguard armor from that game.
edit: haha, I just saw some mods people have made for Brawl, some of it is crazy looking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEU-0LoX7no
I really want Ridley to be playable. "Leaked" concept points it might be so.
Also, Lyn deserves much more than being an assist, but considering the new Fire Emblem for 3DS is around the corner, they will whore those new characters as much they can.
Also also, obligatory pink hair alt color for Link.
Also, Lyn deserves much more than being an assist, but considering the new Fire Emblem for 3DS is around the corner, they will whore those new characters as much they can.
Also also, obligatory pink hair alt color for Link.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Oh man, I'm playing SS right now and it just occurred to me how awesome it would be if Smash 4 Link had the claw beetle. Could steal other people's items right out of their hands. Or drop bombs from above. The possibilities are staggering...
It could probably control like PK Thunder.
InvincibleAgent
Member
I'd rather have Gust Bellows tbh
GotchaForce
Member
Agreed on the alts-
Mario- Dr Mario
Peach- Daisy/Rosalina
Donkey Kong- Funky Kong
Diddy Kong- Dixie Kong
Sonic- Shadow
Mega Man- Mega Man X
Star Fox- Falco/Star Wolf
Fire Emblem dudes- each other
Random thought: I can't wait to see what they do with a Mario Galaxy level.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Yup. Or it could optionally be automatic. Just wreak Havok™.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Talking about moves.
In pretty much every Smash since the first (all two of them) they've added a new "B" move of sorts.
In Melee they introduced the sideB.
In Brawl they introduced the Final Smash (activates with "B")
Do you think we'll somehow get an addition to our arsenal in the next game(s) as well to keep up with this tradition?
Personally the weird customization stuff Sakurai briefly mentioned about the 3DS made me wonder what sort of customization a game like Smash could even have, messing around with your character's B moves might be one possibility.
In pretty much every Smash since the first (all two of them) they've added a new "B" move of sorts.
In Melee they introduced the sideB.
In Brawl they introduced the Final Smash (activates with "B")
Do you think we'll somehow get an addition to our arsenal in the next game(s) as well to keep up with this tradition?
Personally the weird customization stuff Sakurai briefly mentioned about the 3DS made me wonder what sort of customization a game like Smash could even have, messing around with your character's B moves might be one possibility.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
...I suggest alt costumes and people suddenly use alt characters. I feel terrible for bringing it up.
No, no, no, no.
I did not mean to refer to alt costumes to simply delete characters and that bullshit as I have mentioned few pages ago. Like for instance, have Zelda's alt costume be a different princess outfit from another game.
No, no, no, no.
I did not mean to refer to alt costumes to simply delete characters and that bullshit as I have mentioned few pages ago. Like for instance, have Zelda's alt costume be a different princess outfit from another game.
You need to remember that the costume also have to be distinctive. Miniskirt peach is still wearing pink so when the games zooms out in a level like Hyrule Temple she won't stick out against regular Peach.
I still wish Sakurai posted an entry explaining the choice of colour like he did with the first Smash game. Apparently one of Falcon costumes is based off of the Japanese F-Zero X advert.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_DDWReK6yQ
I still wish Sakurai posted an entry explaining the choice of colour like he did with the first Smash game. Apparently one of Falcon costumes is based off of the Japanese F-Zero X advert.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_DDWReK6yQ
The general idea of having alt characters as costumes is that it gives you the opportunity to play as characters that would probably never be in the game under normal circumstances. For example, I definitely don't see Daisy making it as a playable character on her own, but they could tweak the Peach model to make it look like Daisy and give her the exact same moveset, save with a few aesthetic differences to make it stand out. The voice and taunts would obviously be different, and also the Final Smash would use flowers instead of peaches. Things like that.
Fans of the alternate character get to play as their favorite, but those that don't care for the character don't mind since it doesn't waste a slot in the roster. It's win/win.
Fans of the alternate character get to play as their favorite, but those that don't care for the character don't mind since it doesn't waste a slot in the roster. It's win/win.
Neoriceisgood
Member
I think the problem with alternative "character" costumes is more the way it's represented.
If you're playing "Daisy" but it still says you're "Peach" and in every single way you're treated as Peach and you play exactly the same too, it just comes across as ..well, cheap.
Personally I think that characters like Pichu, Daisy and whatever would be a bit of a waste of time and effort if they were added as fully original characters, but just having them be a model swap seems like doing half a job.
I think Melee handled it's clones just perfectly, I think that a character like Daisy if she was added would probably work best as a Dr.Mario-style clone, own slot, tweaked moves, but not too much effort put in that could be spent on more original characters.
(By perfect I mean, Sakurai had mentioned that all clones combined took less effort than 1 single new character afaik, imagine how small Melee's roster would be with no clones at all.)
/mild edit
I feel like some stuff like taunts would need to be unique for clone-characters rather than alt costumes as well, as they give a bit of personality to characters.
If you're playing "Daisy" but it still says you're "Peach" and in every single way you're treated as Peach and you play exactly the same too, it just comes across as ..well, cheap.
Personally I think that characters like Pichu, Daisy and whatever would be a bit of a waste of time and effort if they were added as fully original characters, but just having them be a model swap seems like doing half a job.
I think Melee handled it's clones just perfectly, I think that a character like Daisy if she was added would probably work best as a Dr.Mario-style clone, own slot, tweaked moves, but not too much effort put in that could be spent on more original characters.
(By perfect I mean, Sakurai had mentioned that all clones combined took less effort than 1 single new character afaik, imagine how small Melee's roster would be with no clones at all.)
/mild edit
I feel like some stuff like taunts would need to be unique for clone-characters rather than alt costumes as well, as they give a bit of personality to characters.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Technically speaking Daisy "alt" is already in the game - she looks so much like Peach that Peach's alt Daisy color pretty much is Daisy.
Very distinctive.
Wasn't miniskirt her go-to sports outfit?
Very distinctive.
Wasn't miniskirt her go-to sports outfit?
For some reason they downgraded Peach's Daisy scheme. In Melee there were some cosmetic changes whereas Brawl was strictly a recolour.
As for her sports outfit, that was evolved over the years. In the past it was just a shorter dress, but now it is also sleeveless. Sometimes wears shorts as a substitute. Still doesn't get around the issue that all these outfits are pink.
As for her sports outfit, that was evolved over the years. In the past it was just a shorter dress, but now it is also sleeveless. Sometimes wears shorts as a substitute. Still doesn't get around the issue that all these outfits are pink.
NeonZ
Member
Maybe some kind of "not so final" Smashes, using some kind of super bar (that could be presented in some other way) rather than the Smash Ball? They could rebalance it to make these super smashes more focused on 1 vs 1, while the Final Smashes could all become free for all screen clearing type attacks.
Even in Melee costume they didn't change Peach's haircut for the Daisy colors though, in spite of changing the modelling of her dress and jewels.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Hey guys since EX attacks are pretty much the rage nowadays maybe Smash should get them too!
Neoriceisgood
Member
What are EX attacks?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Souped up versions of a special move.
Like say, an EX version of DK's Giant Punch is essentially a fully charged punch rather than charging it.
Like say, an EX version of DK's Giant Punch is essentially a fully charged punch rather than charging it.
Nocturnowl
Member
Actually I think this would be pretty cool, continuing with using DK...
B: As you said an instant charged punch
up B: More elevation for aerial recovery and more of a suction effect applied so it could draw people in and knock them out
down B: Shockwave range increased
Forward B: opponent is stuck in the ground longer upon being hit
Toxicplatypus
Member
I like the idea of meter management in a smash bros setting...just don't let it build up to anything quite as powerful/useless as a final smash..
Or just re-balance final smash attacks across the board.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah since every fighting game and their mothers have EX moves, why not Smash? Hell, a lot of the so-called clones can benefit from it by having different EX variations of the moves too.
Like Falcon Punch can become a two-hitter while Warlock Punch can become a ranged attack.
Like Falcon Punch can become a two-hitter while Warlock Punch can become a ranged attack.
Professor Beef
Banned
EX Attacks? And here I was having a dream about a potential Ryu move list earlier.
Yeah, Supre Smosh Brus Bawrl was an odd game. Brawl was definitely great though.
just messing with you... even if I disagree a lot
The Xtortionist
Member
tiers don exits
Hours Left
Member
I'm not really a fan of alternate costumes actually being other characters. I don't even really like Peach having a Daisy alt. I don't think it's fair to fans of either of the characters.
The only ones I'd be okay with is Mario/Dr. Mario, Young Link/Toon Link and Pikachu/Pichu considering there are actually the same characters, just different moves & properties. Also, it would be a way to have those characters in the game without taking up a roster spot. (Though we could lose Toon Link and I'd have no problem with that.)
Not really.
Path of Radiance Ike
Radiant Dawn Ike
Only the cape, headband and part of the gloves are the same. RD Ike is much beefier too.
The only ones I'd be okay with is Mario/Dr. Mario, Young Link/Toon Link and Pikachu/Pichu considering there are actually the same characters, just different moves & properties. Also, it would be a way to have those characters in the game without taking up a roster spot. (Though we could lose Toon Link and I'd have no problem with that.)
Not really.
Path of Radiance Ike
Radiant Dawn Ike
Only the cape, headband and part of the gloves are the same. RD Ike is much beefier too.
Weird, looking at those pictures it looks like they went with RD Ike in PoR's clothes.
Toxicplatypus
Member
a b plus direction? simple enough?
Yeah, that could work, I forgot only A moves are universally charged by holding directions.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Well, Wii U don't support gamecube controllers so we can use a new button on classic controller if I remembered correctly.
(Or change X or Y into something better) I don't see any point of two jump buttons.
Just some banter on what I expect from the next Smash Bros.
Skyward Sword spoilers but:
Zelda will also be rather different as she would most likely be based off her Skyward Sword design. I wonder how Ganondorf will be handled, maybe
Kid Icarus will DEFINITELY get more character representation, no doubt. Sakurai gonna pimp his game just like he did with Kirby.
I also think it's likely Xenoblade is going to get representation. In the sales department it didn't go well, but Famitsu recently ranked it in top 10 Nintendo games of all time, which is pretty astounding. Not only is Xenoblade in the top 10 there, but it topped the list on top 10 RPGs of all time on a major Japanese gaming site. It's definitely extremely well received in both Japan and in the West even though everyone pirated it.
I think Sakurai will continue to ignore: Metroid, F-Zero, and the majority of obscure retro characters (though I do think we'll see one or two, as usual). Fire Emblem, Mario, Pokemon, Mother, Star Fox, Kirby will get a standard representation, but most picks I think will be of new IPs such as Wii Sports, Xenoblade, Rhythm Heaven, Sin & Punishment, Kikitrick, and a few older IPs like Punch-Out!! for nostalgia.
Skyward Sword spoilers but:
Does anyone think Sheik might be replaced by Impa? I think it would be a better fit due to Impa's importance to the franchise in comparison to Sheik (she pretty much the fourth pillar). It'd also give away for an original character rather than a transformation of Zelda, plus alt costume for OoT and SS versions.
Zelda will also be rather different as she would most likely be based off her Skyward Sword design. I wonder how Ganondorf will be handled, maybe
replace him with Demise, but I doubt it cause Ganondorf is more iconic.
Kid Icarus will DEFINITELY get more character representation, no doubt. Sakurai gonna pimp his game just like he did with Kirby.
I also think it's likely Xenoblade is going to get representation. In the sales department it didn't go well, but Famitsu recently ranked it in top 10 Nintendo games of all time, which is pretty astounding. Not only is Xenoblade in the top 10 there, but it topped the list on top 10 RPGs of all time on a major Japanese gaming site. It's definitely extremely well received in both Japan and in the West even though everyone pirated it.
I think Sakurai will continue to ignore: Metroid, F-Zero, and the majority of obscure retro characters (though I do think we'll see one or two, as usual). Fire Emblem, Mario, Pokemon, Mother, Star Fox, Kirby will get a standard representation, but most picks I think will be of new IPs such as Wii Sports, Xenoblade, Rhythm Heaven, Sin & Punishment, Kikitrick, and a few older IPs like Punch-Out!! for nostalgia.
I'm hoping for Medusa, her design is pretty great, and she could be a cool magic user like Zelda. Plus she would work as a villain if they need one for an adventure mode storyline.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
You can pretty much just assign another button for an EX attack (e.g. have hypothetical button C for EX version of neutral B), or maybe A+B (+ direction) for an EX attack.
That got me to thinking, hopefully if they do another adventure mode like subspace we get an established main antagonist instead of "random generic evil sci-fi entity." Like Dark Matter. It was basically a Kirby love story anyway, and he's a villain with the ability to control others, plus he has some badass boss fights under his belt.
Or hell, make it Bowser or something, just not another boring thing like Tabuu.
Would everyone be okay if they kinda scrapped or overhauled Final Smashes to be something a little more, I don't know... less item-based? Would a more traditional Capcom-style power bar that fills up when you do stuff which can be spent on a super charged but not quite as over-the-top special move as a Final Smash work out in a SSB game?
The mechanics of SSB should be kept as simple as possible, but we can probably all agree that there should be less chance-based advantages. How about something that you can unleash only when you're over 100% damage? Then not only do they not need to clutter the screen up with something new, it adds a "come back" advantage to players who aren't doing too well, which Nintendo loves to do, as seen in Mario Kart. Plus the whole "percent" of damage would make actual sense in that context for once, it would represent the percentage of how charged the move is, as opposed to some arbitrary number.
The mechanics of SSB should be kept as simple as possible, but we can probably all agree that there should be less chance-based advantages. How about something that you can unleash only when you're over 100% damage? Then not only do they not need to clutter the screen up with something new, it adds a "come back" advantage to players who aren't doing too well, which Nintendo loves to do, as seen in Mario Kart. Plus the whole "percent" of damage would make actual sense in that context for once, it would represent the percentage of how charged the move is, as opposed to some arbitrary number.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Like I said, make the Final Smashes less broken and have them be more balanced. And have EX moves to add more to meter management.
I like the idea of EX moves "replacing" Final Smashes. Maybe they could act as "Final Smash Juniors" with an A+B button press or maybe a new button mapping (there'd be a neutral, tilt & smash version) a la Ookami-kun's suggestion and the attack is unique to the character using it. Of course balancing it would be a matter of giving the moves universal cool down time so you couldn't rattle them off like crazy and also offer the opportunity for whiff punishes.
Another idea I had from a while back was something like a hybrid of Paper Mario: TTYD's audience mechanic and the idea above where you'd fight it out and the more stylish/crowd rousing things you did, the more "meter" in the form of crowd attention you'd gain for said moves. You couldn't use anything but the weakest variant of the EX move when fighting from the start, only after gaining some audience attention from playing well would you gain access to tilt EX which is stronger and Smash EXs which are strongest. The latter would be restricted to use only when the crowd started a cheer session for you. At that time, it'd be your decision to either use all of the crowd enthusiasm for one big version of the EX moves (similar to Final Smashes now, except with more balanced one off strikes -- basically a crowd support Spirit Bomb
) or you could use multiple little ones with less cool down time until the "meter" is spent (i.e. you use the big version -- hit or whiff doesn't matter, using it would end the duration you had the best version available), the character is KO'd, the crowd stops cheering or someone else outplays you during the time the crowd is cheering, shifting attention to themselves.
Another idea I had from a while back was something like a hybrid of Paper Mario: TTYD's audience mechanic and the idea above where you'd fight it out and the more stylish/crowd rousing things you did, the more "meter" in the form of crowd attention you'd gain for said moves. You couldn't use anything but the weakest variant of the EX move when fighting from the start, only after gaining some audience attention from playing well would you gain access to tilt EX which is stronger and Smash EXs which are strongest. The latter would be restricted to use only when the crowd started a cheer session for you. At that time, it'd be your decision to either use all of the crowd enthusiasm for one big version of the EX moves (similar to Final Smashes now, except with more balanced one off strikes -- basically a crowd support Spirit Bomb
) or you could use multiple little ones with less cool down time until the "meter" is spent (i.e. you use the big version -- hit or whiff doesn't matter, using it would end the duration you had the best version available), the character is KO'd, the crowd stops cheering or someone else outplays you during the time the crowd is cheering, shifting attention to themselves.- Status