and you said you didn't talk like a texan!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition
- Thread starter Snakeyes
- Start date
- Status
and you said you didn't talk like a texan!
Lord of the Rings is in Texas?
i reckon.
There's been two sequels in Japan, one for the GBA the other for the GCN. Bought the GBA one for super cheap from PlayAsia years ago (when the economy was good).
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Wait, someone said Kenshiro in Smash?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Half a month late I know but just thought I'd comment on this. Blatant fakeness aside replace
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I wonder if Nintendo is going to take it more serious with SSB4 because they are getting new rival, Title Fight.
I hope that it would motivate them to outdo with SSB4 and make it very awesome game that would make us crying in unity.
I hope that it would motivate them to outdo with SSB4 and make it very awesome game that would make us crying in unity.
seriously doubt it
Ok, the Radiant series had bad animations but they weren't THAT bad. At least the portraits were great. I never got accustomed to the weird as hell style they used in Shadow Dragon.
They should at least fix the physics and try to make at least some moves combo-able again. I see where they were coming from with Brawl, but it is really slow compared to Melee. And make tripping an option.
Really, the only thing I don't like about Brawl for the most part is the floatiness. (And the adventure mode was boring but I only played it once anyway)
I'm kind of curious about why everyone thinks Palutena or Medusa would be characters at all when they typically do... nothing. If KI does get another character, it'll be
Agree 100% on Jill though.
Black-Wind
Member
Medusa is the antagonist sending out these waves of enemies and likely the final big boss. (Bet that red snake is her weak spot ...)
Palutena is the one guiding Icarus and making giving him stuff ... kinda like the Zelda role. That got Peach and Zelda in so that's not really far off.
Mangus apparently plays a small role in the game where as those 2 listed above actually have lil anime shorts coming out along with being important parts of the game.
Neoriceisgood
Member
As far as I can tell from the roster, importance within the franchise is a lot more important than having an actual in-game moveset they can instantly use. (Zelda, C.Falcon and Peach as prime examples)
Main antagonists/antagonists with a clear "face" who last more than 1 game are also very prone to be added in most cases where the franchise is important enough to house several characters.
For these reasons I can easily imagine Medusa making her way in, it's not hard to imagine a moveset for her, regardless of her having one in the game or not. Combined with Sakurai seemingly loving his own characters (metaknight and dedede both being added while most other secondary franchises barely or didn't expanded..?) I can easily imagine her being a fairly high probability addition.
Palutena? I'll reserve judgement on her, the fact that she's pit's final smash makes me wonder.
Main antagonists/antagonists with a clear "face" who last more than 1 game are also very prone to be added in most cases where the franchise is important enough to house several characters.
For these reasons I can easily imagine Medusa making her way in, it's not hard to imagine a moveset for her, regardless of her having one in the game or not. Combined with Sakurai seemingly loving his own characters (metaknight and dedede both being added while most other secondary franchises barely or didn't expanded..?) I can easily imagine her being a fairly high probability addition.
Palutena? I'll reserve judgement on her, the fact that she's pit's final smash makes me wonder.
I'm thinking Pit might get a total revamp in smash4 though, as far as I can tell his gameplay and arsenal in uprising are substantially different from how he plays in brawl, so a new FS wouldn't surprise me at all.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Don't get why people get hung up about Kirby having 3 reps in Brawl when it's one of Nintendo's biggest franchises but not Star Fox as much where there hadn't been a well-received or 'big' Star Fox game for over a decade by the time Brawl came out. I honestly found it weirder there wasn't Dedede in 64 (yeah, I know he was apparently planned but cut) or Melee and only having one new stage in Brawl I don't think Sakurai was playing favorites all that much.
I don't understand this at all. It took 3 games for more Kirby characters to show up. Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Starfox (!) and Fire Emblem (!!!) all had multiple characters before the Kirby series did. Kirby is also one of Nintendo's biggest franchises in terms of both sales numbers and number of games - its not like the Mother series, which got 2 characters for seemingly very little justifiable reason other than "Sakurai likes these dudes".
EDIT: Beaten
NeonZ
Member
Why the spoiler tag? Anyway, I don't see that happening. If he didn't touch Ganondorf in Brawl, he isn't going to turn Pit into a completely different character. He might replace the mirror with something from the new game and make a few tweaks, but we won't see a completely revamped Pit.
Well, it's bigger than Zelda in Japan these days. As far as Smash goes, Kirby has always been considered in the "top 4", right behind Mario, Zelda and Pokemon if you look at the game's presentations (like the intros). And, even so, it got no newcomers in Melee. If any franchise is way over represented in comparison to its popularity, it's Star Fox.
I'm not trying to start a character nominating contest but... Speaking of series, without mentioning a specific character, which important series that have 0 reps should get one in the next game?
The obvious ones to me are:
- Famicom/Advance Wars [15 titles (including Battalion Wars)]
- Wii Series* (8+ titles)
- Punch Out (7 titles)
- Excite series (5 titles)
- Custom Robo (5 titles)
- Animal Crossing (4 titles, 5th on the way)
- Chibi Robo (4 titles)
Some of those seem like weird mentions, but if they can make a character out of Rob, Mr. Game & Watch, and Capatain falcon, they can make a character out of anyone.
*The number goes a lot higher if you count other games where you play as a Mii, such as pilotwings, wario ware smooth moves, etc. and WAY higher if you count all the games that use miis)
The obvious ones to me are:
- Famicom/Advance Wars [15 titles (including Battalion Wars)]
- Wii Series* (8+ titles)
- Punch Out (7 titles)
- Excite series (5 titles)
- Custom Robo (5 titles)
- Animal Crossing (4 titles, 5th on the way)
- Chibi Robo (4 titles)
- Tingle (4 Titles)
Some of those seem like weird mentions, but if they can make a character out of Rob, Mr. Game & Watch, and Capatain falcon, they can make a character out of anyone.
*The number goes a lot higher if you count other games where you play as a Mii, such as pilotwings, wario ware smooth moves, etc. and WAY higher if you count all the games that use miis)
Black-Wind
Member
Ya see, there's a whole lil story behind why 3D and MK weren't in before ...
Of course we know he had to make cuts for 64 ... and even then if anyone where to make it in it would be Bowser or Gannon before a Kirby enemy.
Melee was a rush job. That's why there'r soo many clones. You can see it just by looking at how many original character move-sets were made. Mario was clearly more important and got it's remaining 2 important characters/ LoZ got ... a Link clone, and screwed over Gannon and 2 new move-sets/ Pokemon got a Pikachu clone and Mewtwo/ Fox got a Falco clone/ FE got a clone with Roy right? After that there'r the unique retro characters. Clone's are much easier to make than normal, unique characters ... and I'm sure he wouldn't want to make MK a Kirby Clone just to get in him the game.
(From what I hear they couldn't get gliding done in melee so that's why they didn't add in MK. )
But for BRAWL he had a ton more time and man power. I feel that Brawl's character's are a pretty good look into how he does things. NOW he could get his favorite Kirby character in along with 3D and he could even put in his bro's character (and make them both broken...). He was even able to make a story mode that starred his Kirby characters ...
So yeah...it's not that he DOESN'T play favorites, he just didn't have the chance until brawl. 64 was limited as hell, melee was clone city on a tight deadline and brawl wasn't.
Now lets look at Kid Icarus ...
Not only did he design Brawl Pitt himself, he fell so in love with it that he decided to make a game for it. And not only did he do that, he somehow got 3 animation studios to make animated shorts just to promote this game.
I am SURE this love will show up in SSB4 somehow.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Do people really call Dedede "3D". That's horrible.
No, they call him D3. Not half as bad as calling Mr. Game & Watch "Gdubs" though.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Black-Wind
Member
I think Iwata approached him with the 3DS and asked him to make something on it and when he saw it he ... knew he wanted to make SSB on it (?) but wanted to do another game before that. Sooo he decided to do Kid Icarus (an old IP. I think he could have done a new IP had he wanted) to prep himself for 3DS Smash (which turned into 3DS+WU Smash).
Well I guess I shall stop that ...
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
...wait, why is MGW called "Gdubs".
...as in G Double U "G Dubs"?
Oh god.
...as in G Double U "G Dubs"?
Oh god.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Mother has a pretty big cult fanbase in Japan too.
Sakurai was just going to flat-out replace Ness with Lucas back in Melee, though. I wonder why he decided to change his mind. Whatever his reason was, I'm not complaining.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
... which is that Dedede was planned for Smash 64 and got cut and Sakurai has specifically stated he didn't want to overload Melee with Kirby characters considering how tight that game's development cycle was. In Brawl both new Kirby reps were some of the most demanded for and in terms of other content it was nowhere near the amount as Mario, Zelda or Pokemon, which is saying something due to the popularity of the series. Kid Icarus was something Nintendo asked him to do quite a bit afterwards, not the other way around.
I honestly have no idea what it is with people trying to paint a picture where Smash is just an excuse for Sakurai to circle-jerk to his own creations.
well actually I do but it's an incredibly dumb reason
Diprosalic
Banned
it got a gba and gamecube sequel.
they even named the game Kuru Kuru Kururin in europe. no wonder it sold so much.
Mother 3 on the 64DD got canned, and then with Brawl Sakurai had more time, so why cut a character that was in Melee and 64?... I guess. I'm not complaining either.
Black-Wind
Member
I basically said all that.
And Kirby doesn't have any other characters important enough to get in. We're talking about characters arnt we? I don't see how he could pick a ton of characters from that series ... that doesn't make logical sense. And why wouldn't they be highly wanted? People love Kirby ...
And as for Pit, Iwata asked him if he would like to do a 3DS game and maybe use a Nintendo IP, Sakurai decided on doing Kid Icarus which just happened to be the brawl character he designed himself. Not sure if you're trying to say that Iwata asked him to do a KI game but ehh.
And yes, I think he does play favorites when I look at brawl. When I look at SSE (which is basically an over-produced Kirby game starring Kirby characters getting development and co-starring the rest of the characters just doing their thing) and when I look at the tier list (he was the one who balanced brawl ... and his favorite Kirby character is the broken character along with his Bro's character) and when I look at the fact that somehow LoZ has more characters but Ganon is stuck being a clone of another character (YL as well) yet he took out the time to make D3 a unique bad guy ... yeah, I think he makes sure to spread the love where he likes it.
He's not a robot, he's human and like anyone he will have favorites.
What do I think? I think that we will get some strange things because of his logic just like with Brawl. Like Ganon remaining a clone and Snake. I truly believe that Travis Touchdown will be in ... not because it makes sense or is highly wanted but because it's his friend's character and a fun concept.
...did you change your username?
Neoriceisgood
Member
Humour me, tell me what characters you'd like to see in the next smash?
Raichu.
doshin
NeonZ
Member
2d game designed by Kirby designer feels more like a Kirby game than other franchises he didn't work on! How unexpected!
Smash has been borrowing mechanics from Kirby Super Star since the beginning. Characters receiving more "development" is just due to them being his own characters and him being more confortable with them. It's not like they actually received more screentime.
The only people who complain about the Kirby focus in SSE are just looking for something to complain about. People who just play through it mostly don't seem to notice anything - because the screentime was distributed like one would expect, with characters like Mario and Link in the center when they were around, even if they aren't very important if you do a " plot analysis" of the cutscenes.
Metaknight is "broken" for a playstyle that isn't even the one Sakurai pushed forward for Brawl.
He took the time to make most additions in Brawl completely unique. There are only new 3 characters who are derivative, and, out of those, only one to a point where it really hurts the game's variation (T.Link) and that's only because he's basically a Y.Link replacement. No former clone character became completely different, even if they received more unique animations and attacks. Ganon's treatment was no worse than Falco's.
It's pretty clear that this is mostly a matter of him attempting to give some consistency to the characters from one game to another. Now, I agree that this was a bad choice for Ganondorf, but it has nothing to do with "favorites".
I can agree with that. Sakurai did make some weird choices and we can expect them again. I don't agree that they're "proof" he's playing favorites in a blatant way, especially when you can only pick examples from a single game and even you agree that he always sacrificed his own series previously when he had to sacrifice something due to resource limitations.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Just to be clear as I'm somewhat on Black-Wind's side here;
I don't have any complaints about how Sakurai treated the kirby characters, In fact, I wish the rest of smash was treated exactly the same way.
When I (not gonna talk for B-W here) talk about Sakurai obviously loving his characters I'm actually talking about exactly the same thing you just mentioned; They're Sakurai's own characters, so he's more comfortable with them.
I think being comfortable and knowing what to do with something is a big reason to add something, especially if the popularity and demand are already there. Sakurai did the Kirby franchise great justice, in my opinion, because they're his own and he's comfortable with that.
I can see him adding more Kid Icarus characters for the same reason.
Kratos.
but he's a namco character.
Nocturnowl
Member
I thouht he was a Clap Hanz character....or was it NetherRealm Studios?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
*Shrug* I don't know, it just didn't seem like Sakurai's ability to 'get' characters wasn't limited solely to ones he had created. I'll agree there are big exceptions though; Wario (as fun as he is to play) and Ganondorf are good examples of not really feeling much at all how they do in their original games, and for the former they seemed to pretend the Wario Land series never existed (when Shake It was just around the corner even!).
For example, considering Rare had been gone from Nintendo for nearly a decade I was really impressed with how much of Diddy Kong's animations and his movesets were pulled from the Country games and DK64 when they could've easily made him a DK-lite and ignored everything else.
I think as NeonZ said the Kirby cast probably feel slightly more rounded out since due to Sakurai being their creator he's naturally going to have a better feel for how they should act, yet more often than not the rest of the cast have had just as much attention and care given to them.
For example, considering Rare had been gone from Nintendo for nearly a decade I was really impressed with how much of Diddy Kong's animations and his movesets were pulled from the Country games and DK64 when they could've easily made him a DK-lite and ignored everything else.
I think as NeonZ said the Kirby cast probably feel slightly more rounded out since due to Sakurai being their creator he's naturally going to have a better feel for how they should act, yet more often than not the rest of the cast have had just as much attention and care given to them.
I always called him Gdubs before knowing this. I'm glad others are on the same supercool wavelength as me.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I thought Iwata already has a waifu in the game (Peach).
Then again they can change Zelda into waifu moe Zelda.
I thought he matched some of the new characters as well. Hell, I was surprised they pulled Wolf a "let's make him into a space Jon Talbain!"
NeonZ
Member
Well, I was talking in that part mostly about the SSE side. Kirby, Metaknight and Dedede basically play out the plot a Kirby game in there, and ROB/Ancient Minister gets a bunch of scenes focusing on his "emotions". Meanwhile, everyone else is more static. I feel like that more due to him being more confortable with handling his own creations in a story than actual favoritism.
As far as the actual gameplay implementation goes, he generally did a very good job making each character stand out and feel "real", besides a few bad decisions (like making Wario 99% based on Wario Ware and attempting to keep Ganondorf's previous moveset rather than make him completely new).
Should be added to the OP of every smash topic.
Neoriceisgood
Member
But how do we know if a character is lame or not?
Togglesworlh
Banned
Hot Coldman
Banned
Is the statue of limitations over on talking about that guy from the end of Skyward Sword yet?
The guy who is also mentioned at the beginning and throughout the game? Can't spoil that.
- Status