Togglesworlh
Banned
Oh oh wavedashing! That's the one I actually meant wasn't intentional on the designers' part.
Goes to show how little I actually care.
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Oh oh wavedashing! That's the one I actually meant wasn't intentional on the designers' part.
Goes to show how little I actually care.
Togglesworlh
Banned
I don't question whether or not they intentionally left it in there, but I do question whether or not it was intentional behavior.
The "we noticed", in particular, is what makes me say that.
The "we noticed", in particular, is what makes me say that.
Professor Beef
Banned
He didn't really say anything in that blurb you posted.
The Xtortionist
Member
Hey guy, competitive Smash is pretty goddamn amazing.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Like how Ghirahim and Geno should totally be included?
any discussion related to the competitive scene will just turn into the usual mess.
noooooooooo
The Xtortionist
Member
Ganondorf in Brawl+ is pretty awesome
SUPER SMASH BROS WIIU ONLINE FEATURES LIST
INCLUDES BUT NOT LIMITED TO:
-Amazing netcode
-Party system across all modes of play, never disbands regardless of what menus you're in
-Matchmaking that offers skill-based and non-skill-based options
-Matchmaking options include 4 man FFA (no parties), 2v2, 1v1, 2v2 no items and competitive stages only, 1v1 no items and competitive stages only
-Starcraft 2-style divisions and ranking system
-Weekly and monthy online events with in-game prizes
-Online coop for Classic, All-Star, and Adventure modes
-Online multiplayer for stage editor
-File sharing for created stages
Stop liking what I don't like!
I'm gonna go to Korea and yell at people for not playing mono battles in SC2.
Togglesworlh
Banned
You're reading waaaay too much into those two words.
...This sounds way too good, but after MK7's online, I have some hope that at least half of these could happen!
Nintendo, listen to this man.
Barrow Roll
Member
Intentional or not, metagames develop and evolve and however you intended something to work while designing a game doesn't always work out the way you want it to in the end.
This guy gets it.
Notice how no where am I putting down casual Smash players or how they want to play their game.
Now let's get back to talking about stickers and predicting rosters for 2 years.
Ganondorf in Project M is even better.
This would be fuckin amazing. I don't have much faith in something that good ever happening though.
Would also love searchable custom game lobbies.
The Xtortionist
Member
dose he gets free jabs after dthrow and f b
Level your characters up by winning with them, unlock stickers, equip stickers. Basically MW3's weapon leveling system for characters.
Barrow Roll
Member
Dthrow operates like Melee so it depends on the DI, percentage and weight of the character. SideB is techable now but you can punish hard if they miss the tech or tech in place. Heck you can still punish hard if you predict properly and tech chase accordingly. Melee Ganon with this new SideB is amazing.
As long as it's not in every single one of the hypothetical playlists, sure, go nuts.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I'm not going to pretend there's some changes in Brawl that made it worse than Melee from a gameplay perspective, but over the years I've been soured on the whole 'competitive' Smash scene. I was willing to give it a chance a few years ago (before Brawl was even announced) as a teenager since I was relatively good at the game and it seemed simple enough to be able to get more advanced mechanics down... but witnessing from a distance just how awful certain aspects of the scene were really in the end just made me care more about the fan-service crossover and party aspects and forget about 'mastering' the game.
I know there's some level of skill but you have to realize when you have top players acting like this (when they think 'casuals' or whatever the fuck can't see what they're saying to be fair):
I really can't even pretend to start caring about advanced techniques, balancing or combos in a game like Smash Bros. unless it's something obvious enough for me to notice at a casual glance like tripping.
I know there's some level of skill but you have to realize when you have top players acting like this (when they think 'casuals' or whatever the fuck can't see what they're saying to be fair):
I really can't even pretend to start caring about advanced techniques, balancing or combos in a game like Smash Bros. unless it's something obvious enough for me to notice at a casual glance like tripping.
mods are neato though
Barrow Roll
Member
That same logic could be used with most any competitive gaming community. They all have their jackholes who think they're above everybody. It's best to just ignore players like them and not make sweeping generalizations about the entire competitive community.
Find a local tourney in your region, show up, meet new people, have a shit ton of fun. Players at the local tournaments I've been to are always super friendly and eager to have new players.
Find a local tourney in your region, show up, meet new people, have a shit ton of fun. Players at the local tournaments I've been to are always super friendly and eager to have new players.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Oh, I'm not bringing that up just to go NOPE THE GAME CAN'T BE PLAYED THIS WAY BECAUSE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF COMPETITIVE PLAYERS ARE IDIOTS. I just mean it's what personally soured me on the whole idea and what probably has for a lot of other casual fans who've had a morbid curiosity for the online Smash 'community', so I can see where the pretty blunt 'who gives a shit' responses from people like Togglesworth* at the 'advanced' discussion is coming from. Moreso than other fighting games Smash attracts far more players who just see it as a fanservice-y party games hence why there's always going to be that huge disconnect (while I don't think anybody would argue the same for most other big fighting games like Street Fighter or even chaotic ones like MvsC).
*whatthefuckisyouravatar TELL ME
*whatthefuckisyouravatar TELL ME
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Eh to be fair competitive tourneys tend to reek of that asshole-ishness, regardless of how much you color it (case in point, SRK and Smashboards).
The Xtortionist
Member
Xyro surely can't be taking the credit for banning MK, can he? I'd like to think MK was carefully tested by SBR members as well as pro players, in addition to analyzing tournament results and MK win percentage against other characters in order to arrive at that conclusion.
Casuals aren't going to play in tourneys anyway so who cares.
Casuals aren't going to play in tourneys anyway so who cares.
Freezie KO
Banned
There will be Communities like in MK7. Standard Nintendo ones will be FFA and 2v2 and some FFA shit with all bob-ombs. Smashboards will make a 1v1 Community and it will reach 100k players.
Book it.
The Xtortionist
Member
But I'd be able to do ranked matchmaking with various rulesets without dabbling in any community bullshit, right?
Freezie KO
Banned
Nope. Sorry.
I could be wrong, but I think Communities are going to be Nintendo's offering to "play the game your way."
The Xtortionist
Member
fucking bass ackwards way of doing shit...Halo 2 did this in 2004...
fucking playlists, how do they work
Free-For-All
Singles
Doubles
Singles Pro (ranked)
Doubles Pro (ranked)
is this really so hard
Barrow Roll
Member
You gotta make the distinction between online communities and actual tournaments. The vitriol spewed on the internet is appalling from both the Smash and TFG communities. Go to an actual tournament and people are generally really friendly and welcoming (with the occasional assholes thrown in there but that's in every aspect of life).
He means casual players that are potentially interested in getting into the competitive scene but are turned off because of posts like those.
All I can say is sorry to lose you over some stupid shit someone said on the internet, maybe you should try again in the future and just ignore all the crazies because all competitive communities have them no matter what the game. Focus on how much fun the actual competitive game is instead of what some arrogant prick has to say about whatever on the internet.
Freezie KO
Banned
I laughed.
Anyway, I agree. But to be honest, I'll be happy if they can just make the netcode playable. Fighters need insanely good netcode, and Brawl has the worst of any online game I've ever played. If they can get this, I'll settle for Communities.
The Xtortionist
Member
2 second input lag when playing against my friend who lives 10 minutes away
BRAWL, NEVER FORGET
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I guess my experience generally comes from online forums and shit like that. Most of the "competition" I attended are generally random arcade matches.
Togglesworlh
Banned
I said literally nothing to the contrary, so I'm not sure what your point is.
In fact, if you really want me to expound upon this particular topic, I would say that I love it when unintentional things occur. Emergent gameplay, whether it's by design, or because of some exploit of the game's mechanics, is one of the best things about video games. When a developer can look at their own game and say, "What the fuck? How are they doing that? How did they even think of that?" - in a good way, mind you - I think they've succeeded in making a good game. I actually see it as a detriment to a game when, for the sequel, a developer looks at a mechanic and says, "This is just too much!" as Sakurai did with, for example, wavedashing. I fucking hate that attitude. Even if I, personally, don't give a flying whatsit about a particular mechanic, I think it's a damn shame when developers remove it for "my benefit", because it's too complicated or whatever. For shame, Sakurai.
See also: Quake's rocket jumping. But whereas Smash was sort of dumbed down for Brawl, rocket jumping has been embraced by certain developers. I'm actually not sure if it still plays a part in, say, Quake 4 (I've never actually played a Quake game, much to my shame!), but at least it's in Team Fortress 2.
It is a mystery to everyone! ;3
Barrow Roll
Member
Okay fair enough. But then what the heck is this all about:
I mean, we all know how players are utilizing wavedashing is unintentional but you like those sorts of happy accidents in other games, what's to question?
I wonder why Sakurai thought it was a problem that advanced players were better than others. Just becasue there's someone better than you at the game doesn't mean the game isn't for everyone. Playing with people of your skill level, or just putting on items and having a good time with your friends gets around that. It's not like competitive players and casual players are constnatly fighting each other in big-name tournaments or soethign.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Speaking of Stickers...what if Nintendo went down the Fifa Gold/Ultimate Team Route?
Hopefully their Japanese nature will stop them from doing that but its a scary thought sticker mode being a "freemium" meta-game.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Uh because it's an interesting question? Given all I wrote there, you still don't understand that I find these kinds of things interesting?
Really?
The Xtortionist
Member
I just don't like the input for wavedashing. Feels like something that was made to be used on an arcade stick.
Skill gap should never be lowered though. Just balance the game better or provide better learning tools. If any depth is removed, replace it with something else.
Skill gap should never be lowered though. Just balance the game better or provide better learning tools. If any depth is removed, replace it with something else.
Barrow Roll
Member
When you start off by calling such techniques "stupid glitch-tricks" I can only infer that you don't care about them. Then you go on to say you don't give a fuck about em. And then you come in saying it's interesting. Okay then.
Look, all I was saying originally is that they're not stupid, I disagree with that statement, and that how they were intended to be used doesn't really matter in the long run because competitive Melee is awesome. That's it really.
Togglesworlh
Banned
You completely misread everything I said, I guess. That might be understandable for the first post, but then I specifically explained my intentions when I said "stupid", and you still didn't catch on? I don't know what to tell you. There's nothing more I can do for you.
Barrow Roll
Member
You call them stupid because you don't give a fuck about them.
So it confused me as to why you're interested in their intended behavior if you don't care. That's it.
And this is a silly conversation. If I've learned anything from GAF is don't try to infer anything beyond what is literally being said.
Let's all get talking about how awesome it would be if Tingle was in Smash instead.
The Xtortionist
Member
Barrow Roll
Member
I was being sarcastic but okay.
I just find roster speculation an incredibly boring topic.
Togglesworlh
Banned
I don't care about them in that I don't ever want to use them (although that might change in the future). I still find it interesting. These two positions aren't mutually exclusive.
The Xtortionist
Member
How about we get a non-shitty adventure mode this time. Maybe use actual locations from Nintendo games?
All discussion about Smash, Pokemon & Zelda tends to turn into the same humdrum stuff, and there isn't much to discuss about Mario given the nature of the seires. No wonder why nintendo fans flock to the Sales-Age stuff when there's "good news" for them.
Barrow Roll
Member
Okay, that's much more clear. Gotcha.
Yes, SSE was such a disappointment with all the random new enemies. They made a character model for a Metroid and it never gets used in SSE? Okay. Even Melee adventure mode at least had ReDeads, Octoroks and those guys in the Ice Climber stage.
Take what Melee did and expand that. And for the love of god don't fuck with the character physics in the adventure mode. That was awful.
It's too bad, discussion about the mechanics of the Smash games gets me going.
If anyone is interested, some of the game designers on Project M are streaming the latest build right now. It's lookin great.
http://www.twitch.tv/ryokoyaksa
Togglesworlh
Banned
Is there even such a thing?
The game isn't really designed for that kind of gameplay. No matter how well you design your levels, platforming is always going to be slow and weird. Challenging fights are always going to be restricted to an arena-like setting. They'd have to change a lot of things to make it interesting beyond fanservice-y shit.
The Xtortionist
Member
I don't care if it plays well or not. The novelty of storming Bowser's Castle as Link, fighting through Tourian as Fox, flying through Bramble Scramble as Kirby, rematching King K. Rool on the Gangplank Galleon as Donkey Kong, navigating a Zelda dungeon as Samus...
...need I go on? Because I fucking can.
...need I go on? Because I fucking can.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
You'll get an adventure mode that takes place in real world locations like a shopping mall and an empty grassy field and LIKE IT.
Seriously though SSE completely missed the point of the entire series being a crossover with characters where it's almost hilarious how much they clash tehmatically with one another and instead they just tried to ape Kingdom Hearts minus an original protagonist
which is already a series I think misses the point of being a Sqauare/Disney crossover
I don't think it's impossible to make a good adventure mode though, especially since it already was essentially Kirby Super Star with every character permanently stuck with the 'Fighter' abililty. It just took away too much from how you played multiplayer (can't grab enemies, greater number of enemies mean you will almost always get gangbanged by a million generic soldier things unless you knew where they were going to spawn beforehand, different character physics and tons of bottomless pits).
Togglesworlh
Banned
Well.
I guess it's time for me to step out of this particular conversation, because that is the only thing that should ever matter in a video game like this.
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