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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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H

Hot Coldman

Banned
BGBW said:
The guy who is also mentioned at the beginning and throughout the game? Can't spoil that.
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Thought not, some people though... you gotta be careful around these parts. :p

But yes, I'd take him over Ghirahim any day. We need more heavy fighters. Actually, he could be somewhat like Ike.
 
G

gogojira

Member
Gravijah said:
doshin
Click to expand...

I'd be cool with that, or a Doshin-themed level. Of course you'd have to size him down significantly. For an epic battle, pit Chibi Robo versus Doshin!

Speaking of those two games, I never played either and I'm kind of sad about that. Maybe I'll import a copy of Doshin one of these days.
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

Super Member
But Ghirahim is a sword that doesn't need swords to fight you

but if he did use dual swords he'd be way better than pit

swords and wrestling moves, no better combination
 
B

Boney

Banned
Wasn't Sakurai thinking of making a Starfox game for the 3DS before he decided on Kid Icarus due to Pit having more mobility?
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Exterminieren said:
I'm thinking
he shares a slot with Ghirahim, in a Samus/ ZSSamus kind of way.
Click to expand...

MAJOR SKYWARD SWORD SPOILERS... for those who haven't been following this convo thread.

OK, I'm brainstorming something fierce here, and you're right, he could do.
Make it so that the Final Smash powers Ghirahim up into his awesome wrestler form, then once you die (or after a minute or so, IDK), he transforms into the Waster Sword and Demise shows up. Now, here's the different part. Demise could be a really wildcard- slow, heavy, and without obvious strength to pack that up (like Bowser and Dedede have). But he could have some sort of weird trick- maybe something to do with the lightning?- that makes him lethal in the right hands. Oh, and make the switch back accesible via FS too, of course- perhaps have him launch the sword in some ridiculously powerful attack, and then have it transform back into Ghirahim?

I think for this to work, Ghirahim would have to an oddball too- he could be based around counters and parries to cause serious damage, with other moves being mostly for zoning and defense. Having a ridiculously useful FS would be the gimmick that connects them.

Transforming Zelda characters is something that, yeah, it's kinda already been done- and I'd rather see Ganondorf get a full-on Ganon transformation as his FS- but still, there's tons of potential.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Ike is by far my favourite newcomer from Brawl, I thought it would be Dedede from the reveals but Ike won out in the end. I do love my heavy characters, i'm hoping for more in the next Smash, mandatory King K.Rool plug here.
 
C

Codeblue

Member
Green Scar said:
Ike is OK! What's wrong with Ike? He's pretty brutal.
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He's my most played character by a huge margin, but his recoveries aren't all that great and his grab range is awful. I had hoped for better when he was first revealed. In a free for all setting, he's totally king though.

Still hoping he makes it back. Fire Emblem needs to expand beyond two characters.
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
Andrex said:
NO

I'm on the seventh dungeon dude. Don't talk about anything, least of all in a non-SS thread!
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X83iB.png
 
Q

qq more

Member
I JUST ordered Skywards Sword and I'm not really gonna play it anytime soon because I'm in the middle of going through the Metal Gear series. So yes, spoiler box please.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Andrex said:
You said he's a heavy character! Stop dropping bombs like that man!! :p
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You're at dungeon seven, you should know by now it's still a somewhat typical Zelda. The ending reflects that ;D

Besides, you should know by now where the game is leading with its plot. Hurry up and beat the game, the ending is pretty fantastic.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Ah that clarifies things then.

I never played Zelda but isn't Ghirahim that campy pale-skinned dude?
 
B

Black-Wind

Member
NeonZ said:
2d game designed by Kirby designer feels more like a Kirby game than other franchises he didn't work on! How unexpected!

Smash has been borrowing mechanics from Kirby Super Star since the beginning. Characters receiving more "development" is just due to them being his own characters and him being more confortable with them. It's not like they actually received more screentime.
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Not sure what your point was with that. :^/

I wasn't complaining about how it played or it's content (or anything for that matter), just pointing out how it was an over-produced Kirby game that starred Kirby characters because he does spread more love to his babies.


The only people who complain about the Kirby focus in SSE are just looking for something to complain about. People who just play through it mostly don't seem to notice anything - because the screentime was distributed like one would expect, with characters like Mario and Link in the center when they were around, even if they aren't very important if you do a " plot analysis" of the cutscenes.
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Like I said, I wasn't complaining about that ... just pointing it out.
And IDK who these people are that played SSE and didn't noticed the giant focus on Kirby characters in the plot while playing through seeing as from what I saw a ton of people were like "Heeeey ... there's something going on here >:/" when the game came out.

Even more so when people started watching SSE cutscenes back-to-back on Youtube.


Metaknight is "broken" for a playstyle that isn't even the one Sakurai pushed forward for Brawl.
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What?

Sakurai isn't some chump, he knows what he's doing. He knows most people who pick up the game are gonna play it like normal people and he's aware of the competitive crowd. Doesn't change the fact that in a game he balanced himself his favorite Kirby character and his Bro's character just happen to be the best.

I don't understand what you have against what I'm saying. Are you saying that somehow he wasn't aware that he had made MK and Snake so powerful? Or that he totally overlooked that massive amount of plot importance Kirby characters had in the massive "epic" story-mode he was dead-set on making? Or even the fact that he made sure that he did his babies right in smash, even if it took them until Brawl to get in YET by his logic it's still OK for Ganon to be a CF clone regardless of the fact that he's an important LoZ character with many sources for an unique Move-Set?



He took the time to make most additions in Brawl completely unique. There are only new 3 characters who are derivative, and, out of those, only one to a point where it really hurts the game's variation (T.Link) and that's only because he's basically a Y.Link replacement. No former clone character became completely different, even if they received more unique animations and attacks. Ganon's treatment was no worse than Falco's.

It's pretty clear that this is mostly a matter of him attempting to give some consistency to the characters from one game to another. Now, I agree that this was a bad choice for Ganondorf, but it has nothing to do with "favorites".
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For one, I refuse to get on the topic of what qualifies a character being a clone in Brawl. That's a hot-topic in the earlier pages of this thread alone lol

Yeah, he wants to please players (In his own words he wanted to please Ganon players from Melee ... which could have happened had he just made some FZ character a clone in brawl but w/e. NOW Ganon is forever aclone ...)

The point I'm making? He didn't treat his own characters this way. He wanted D3 in there back in 64 apparently but instead of making him or MK a melee clone he held off on it until he could do it right. He poured his heart and soul into those Kirby games/ characters and though he could have easily made either MK or D3 a clone he didn't.

That's perfectly fine, he's a goddamn human ... why would anyone who puts so much of themselves into making something make those creations into knock-offs instead of being true to their origins in this case?


I can agree with that. Sakurai did make some weird choices and we can expect them again. I don't agree that they're "proof" he's playing favorites in a blatant way, especially when you can only pick examples from a single game and even you agree that he always sacrificed his own series previously when he had to sacrifice something due to resource limitations.
Click to expand...

Maybe our ideas of him "favoring" something is simply different.

You (or that other guy) seem to think that if he did favor Kirby then Smash would be crawling in Kirby characters (no matter how redundant) and he would go to no end trying to cram them in.

ME?

Neoriceisgood said:
Just to be clear as I'm somewhat on Black-Wind's side here;

I don't have any complaints about how Sakurai treated the kirby characters, In fact, I wish the rest of smash was treated exactly the same way.

When I (not gonna talk for B-W here) talk about Sakurai obviously loving his characters I'm actually talking about exactly the same thing you just mentioned; They're Sakurai's own characters, so he's more comfortable with them.


I think being comfortable and knowing what to do with something is a big reason to add something, especially if the popularity and demand are already there. Sakurai did the Kirby franchise great justice, in my opinion, because they're his own and he's comfortable with that.

I can see him adding more Kid Icarus characters for the same reason.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this exactly.
:p

Yeah, I think he's gonna show his new baby some love and put in the other 2 main characters from that series because he pumped a TON of heart and soul into them, even going so far as to get big name anime studios to make short for each one.
 
P

PokéKong

Member
This video of Kirby Super Star advanced techniques makes me wish all the more that we had gotten a 2D SSB on DS, but sadly this will never be and the 3DS version will be a downgraded version of the WiiU game graphically.

Am I the only one who thought Kirby sorta got the shaft in SSBB? Two new characters sure, but they all had to share one level which was specific Meta Knight, or play on one returning Melee stage, and no Fountain of Dreams in sight.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I'm a little depressed at the prospect of the next SSB. I should be happy, but I can't really muster any excitement. I absolutely loved SSB64 and Melee. Especially the latter, which me and my friends clocked over 10,000 hours! Then Brawl comes out and kills nearly any interest I had in any future installments. And the little interest I DID have, Sakurai helped eviscerate by saying he won't be making an SSB with the speed and franticness of Melee ever again. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I infinitely enjoyed the buildup to the game via the Dojo than I did with the final product itself. Alas :/
 
A

Azure Dream

Member
PokéKong;34178722 said:
Am I the only one who thought Kirby sorta got the shaft in SSBB? Two new characters sure, but they all had to share one level which was specific Meta Knight, or play on one returning Melee stage, and no Fountain of Dreams in sight.
Click to expand...

Stages were the only place where the Kirby series was (nonsensically) "shafted". No Fountain of Dreams was odd indeed.

But Kirby shafted in Brawl? Two brand new characters (including the only one actively banned by many tournaments), new instant-kill item with specialized mechanic (I had to turn off the Dragoon, it would show up way too often no matter what I set it to and get in the way), and all three characters massively feature in Subspace Emissary. Ridiculously so.
 
B

Black-Wind

Member
Oblivion said:
I'm a little depressed at the prospect of the next SSB. I should be happy, but I can't really muster any excitement. I absolutely loved SSB64 and Melee. Especially the latter, which me and my friends clocked over 10,000 hours! Then Brawl comes out and kills nearly any interest I had in any future installments. And the little interest I DID have, Sakurai helped eviscerate by saying he won't be making an SSB with the speed and franticness of Melee ever again. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I infinitely enjoyed the buildup to the game via the Dojo than I did with the final product itself. Alas :/
Click to expand...

Say waaaat? Gonna need some more light thrown on the bold part.

And yeah ... I feel the same.

The hype for Brawl was just a monster of a whirlwind ... no control, no borders, just pure chaos and everyone fell into it's unrelenting grip. When it comes to smash people loss all sense of what's going on. Hell, that started for SSB4 already with people translating some comments he made in completely different ways last I checked.

That's part of why I no longer allow my hype levels to go up for Nintendo games ... that shit scarred me. I really don't know what to expect for SSB4 ... hopefully it's not a floaty mess like Brawl now that Nintendo is trying to capture the Core.
 
B

Barrow Roll

Member
Black-Wind said:
Say waaaat? Gonna need some more light thrown on the bold part.
Click to expand...
http://www.1up.com/news/masahiro-sakurai-reflects-super-smash

However, he has one particularly deep regret: the game's accessibility level. "I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years," Sakurai said. "But why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then? That's why I tried to aim for more of a happy medium with Brawl's play balance. There are three Smash Bros. games out now, but even if I ever had a chance at another one, I doubt we'll ever see one that's as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult."
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I really don't buy it since I've never heard any casual player say Melee was too difficult.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Black-Wind said:
Say waaaat? Gonna need some more light thrown on the bold part.

And yeah ... I feel the same.

The hype for Brawl was just a monster of a whirlwind ... no control, no borders, just pure chaos and everyone fell into it's unrelenting grip. When it comes to smash people loss all sense of what's going on. Hell, that started for SSB4 already with people translating some comments he made in completely different ways last I checked.

That's part of why I no longer allow my hype levels to go up for Nintendo games ... that shit scarred me. I really don't know what to expect for SSB4 ... hopefully it's not a floaty mess like Brawl now that Nintendo is trying to capture the Core.
Click to expand...

Here you go:

However, he has one particularly deep regret: the game's accessibility level. "I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years," Sakurai said. "But why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then? That's why I tried to aim for more of a happy medium with Brawl's play balance. There are three Smash Bros. games out now, but even if I ever had a chance at another one, I doubt we'll ever see one that's as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult."
Click to expand...

http://www.1up.com/news/masahiro-sakurai-reflects-super-smash

edit: damn, beaten
 
A

AdventureRacing

Member
Barrow Roll said:
I really don't buy it since I've never heard any casual player say Melee was too difficult.
Click to expand...

That is just such bullshit. Melee is no harder to play than brawl. Just because a game has some deeper mechanics doesn't mean it's hard to play or not accessible. You don't sell as well as melee did by only appealing to the small hardcore crowd (and judging by brawls sales they were hardly turned off the franchise).

They had a chance to have a series that could actually be played competitively whilst still being fun for the average gamer and they went and ruined it. Such a frustrating situation
 
B

Barrow Roll

Member
AdventureRacing said:
That is just such bullshit. Melee is no harder to play than brawl. Just because a game has some deeper mechanics doesn't mean it's hard to play or not accessible. You don't sell as well as melee did by only appealing to the small hardcore crowd (and judging by brawls sales they were hardly turned off the franchise).

They had a chance to have a series that could actually be played competitively whilst still being fun for the average gamer and they went and ruined it. Such a frustrating situation
Click to expand...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdHTnpgpLDc

As long as Sakurai is still at the helm, I basically have no hype for Smash 4.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
AdventureRacing said:
That is just such bullshit. Melee is no harder to play than brawl. Just because a game has some deeper mechanics doesn't mean it's hard to play or not accessible. You don't sell as well as melee did by only appealing to the small hardcore crowd (and judging by brawls sales they were hardly turned off the franchise).

They had a chance to have a series that could actually be played competitively whilst still being fun for the average gamer and they went and ruined it. Such a frustrating situation
Click to expand...

Yup. Hell, it's quite possible that Brawl might have alienated more people than Melee ever threatened to do.

Or maybe not, I dunno.
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Gravijah said:
thanks for ruining it for someone 2 dungeons in. :mad:
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Just so you know, that guy refers to
Beedle
.

I know who should be in this to represent New Nintendo; the eShop Shopping Bag (Internet Helper as an alt costume). He can summon presents and make weird Christmas decoration fall from a washing line.
 
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