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[NeonZ]

Is there even such a thing?

The game isn't really designed for that kind of gameplay.
No matter how well you design your levels, platforming is always going to be slow and weird. Challenging fights are always going to be restricted to an arena-like setting. They'd have to change a lot of things to make it interesting beyond fanservice-y shit.

Is that really true? I mean, even in a standard match, you are navigating between platforms. It's part of Smash's basic gameplay, not just something tacked on for Adventure mode. Now, I agree that it could never be a pure platformer, but it could still work as an action/platformer mix, like Kirby.

What I think they could do as far as gameplay goes:

-Make less "screenlock" and "arena" encounters, focusing more on free control through levels. It's a nice aspect of the Labyrinth level compared to the rest of the game that's usually forgotten because people are annoyed at some reused areas. The Labyrinth rarely locks up the player and throws a huge number of enemies at him. Those were by far the laziest designed moments of SSE.

-Spread through the different stages some areas or items that could only be accessed by some characters. Also, introduce a character swap mechanic. Basically, adding the gameplay features of the old "break the targets" and "board the platforms" to the Adventure mode. So, you could need to use the Morph bomb and bomb jump to go through some small space, only to switch to Link and then use his boomerang to activate a switch that would lead to some secret area.

-Also, less focus on a "story" that locks up most of the gameplay during most of the game. Sakurai can still include as many cutscenes as he wants, but they shouldn't restrict the gameplay during most of the game. Each stage should have only one or two story characters, with the other two team members being free choices out of the available cast.

 

[Togglesworlh]

Is that really true? I mean, even in a standard match, you are navigating between platforms. It's part of Smash's basic gameplay, not just something tacked on for Adventure mode. Now, I agree that it could never be a pure platformer, but it could still work as an action/platformer mix, like Kirby.

Both adventure modes so far have sucked. I don't see any way they can get around it if they want to keep adventure mode feeling at all similar to the actual multiplayer game.

If they're willing to stray, however...

-Spread through the different stages some areas or items that could only be accessed by some characters. Also, introduce a character swap mechanic. Basically, adding the gameplay features of the old "break the targets" and "board the platforms" to the Adventure mode. So, you could need to use the Morph bomb and bomb jump to go through some small space, only to switch to Link and then use his boomerang to activate a switch that would lead to some secret area.

...this could be good. This could be pretty amazing. It'd turn into more of a puzzle platformer, though, which I'm okay with (as it's one of my favorite types of games), but maybe other people aren't.

 

[leroidys]

Is there even such a thing?

The game isn't really designed for that kind of gameplay. No matter how well you design your levels, platforming is always going to be slow and weird. Challenging fights are always going to be restricted to an arena-like setting. They'd have to change a lot of things to make it interesting beyond fanservice-y shit.

I don't know if I'm alone on this, but I LOVED adventure mode in Melee.

 

[Black-Wind]

I was being sarcastic but okay.

I just find roster speculation an incredibly boring topic.

I keep trying to bring up the ONE interesting thing Sakurai and Iwata have commented on about this game but no one wants to talk about it.

It's the character customization. You'r supposed to "build up" your character on the 3DS version and bring it to the WU version to battle others and show it off.

BUT .... we don't know wtf he means by "character customization". Is it something like stats/ stickers (you can make a really fast Bowser?)? Or is it just outfits and cosmetic stuff (Tanooki Suit Mario/ Fire Ball recoloring for Mario/ tuft Haired Pikachu/ Link with a beginner's shield/ unique animations)? Or mabe, with the simple fact that he is allowing other team members to help balance the game, could it be custom attacks (Like, say ... each character has 4 sets of Special B moves you can choose from. This would be HEAVEN for clones seeing as they can share their default B moves with another character well still having the option for a few of their own)?
Or is it all 3?

Who knows ...

 

[Togglesworlh]

I don't know if I'm alone on this, but I LOVED adventure mode in Melee.

I think a lot of people surely loved it and/or SSE.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Well.

I guess it's time for me to step out of this particular conversation, because that is the only thing that should ever matter in a video game like this.

Adventure should just be for novelty and spectacle imo. VS is where the good gameplay is.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I wonder why Sakurai thought it was a problem that advanced players were better than others. Just becasue there's someone better than you at the game doesn't mean the game isn't for everyone. Playing with people of your skill level, or just putting on items and having a good time with your friends gets around that. It's not like competitive players and casual players are constnatly fighting each other in big-name tournaments or soethign.

With the general sense I have of Japanese developers, I always had the suspicion that Sakurai didn't really consider what the Smash social scene might be like in the west. Just as many Japanese designers of fighting games don't seem to know or care what players are doing with their games in the west.

In the case of Smash, I bet Sakurai was imagining it as random tournament level players sitting on the couch making 10 year olds cry because the tourny geek could wavedash. He may not have been thinking of it in terms of actual, organized settings where the players attending would mostly be on the same level, playing with the same mindset.

I believe Sakurai really is a great developer, he's got too much to his credit. Circumstances seem to point toward Brawl's development being affected by severe focus on the Wii's intended usage and the setting for its usage.

 

[Togglesworlh]

What's the point of putting effort into something you acknowledge isn't going to be as good as it could be? Why waste time? Put that effort into the main mode to make it even better. It is foolish to do otherwise.

 

[leroidys]

I think a lot of people surely loved it and/or SSE.

Nobody loved SSE. If they did they are a spambot sent by sakurai. That thing was such a steaming pile of shit. 12 minutes of gameplay stretched out over 8 hours.

 

[likeGdid]

I think trudging through SSE was the fastest way to unlock all characters.

 

[MisterHero]

Playing through SSE as Sonic is actually really fun. It's too bad he was unlocked so late, lol.

Maybe because the other characters felt a lot slower than in the fighting mode

 

[SmithnCo]

How about we get a non-shitty adventure mode this time. Maybe use actual locations from Nintendo games?

.

Subspace Emissary had such boring environments.

HOWEVER, I did like some of the boss choices. Hopefully if they do take something from Subspace, it's the big boss cameos. (Tabuu was lame though)

Obviously it would be cool to have even more series' representation with bosses as well.

 

[PokéKong]

Nobody loved SSE. If they did they are a spambot sent by sakurai. That thing was such a steaming pile of shit. 12 minutes of gameplay stretched out over 8 hours.

Hey, I loved it. Wow none of that is true.

Some people aren't into being competitive all the time and having a nice co-op adventure with a buddy is a great time. It felt like a quality game pulled from Kirby Super Star.

 

[SmithnCo]

Everyone admits the last part of SSE sucks though, right? Where you have to retread through areas in the whole map? Ugh.

 

[qq more]

Everyone admits the last part of SSE sucks though, right? Where you have to retread through areas in the whole map? Ugh.

SSE was really bland and unimaginative for the most part, but that PART right there was fucking stupid. I'm not really sure what they were really thinking.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Everyone admits the last part of SSE sucks though, right? Where you have to retread through areas in the whole map? Ugh.

Well I kind of liked the metroidvania style aspect of it, not so much the copy pasted rooms.

 

[qq more]

Well I kind of liked the metroidvania style aspect of it, not so much the copy pasted rooms.

Agreed. They really should of have made it a separate mode. I like the idea of a metroidvania adventure mode... but it felt so wrong including it right at the end of SSE, which SSE itself didn't have metroidvania elements before that point. Felt so disjointed.

 

[Anth0ny]

SSE was GARBAGE.

Melee's adventure mode was fantastic. A quick little fanservicy thing used to unlock characters and stuff. That's all Smash Bros single player should ever be.

You could tell they wasted way too much time making SSE. But, knowing Sakurai, Smash 4 will have SSE II. I mean, who would want to see classic Nintendo environments and stages in 1080p for the first time? Bah!

 

[PokéKong]

Well I kind of liked the metroidvania style aspect of it, not so much the copy pasted rooms.

Ditto, it was cool having some actual exploration, just a little less cool when you missed something and had to travel back through a bunch of areas.

Sakurai's team knows what they're doing with stage design as far as aesthetics and a sense of action flow, but any attempt to make large areas results in feeling completely disorienting and disjointed. See the Amazing Mirror.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Certainly one other thing I liked about SSE's The Great Maze section was slowly earning your favourite characters to make up your team to use in the maze itself.
Honestly though SSE was a guilty pleasure for me, I thought it was decent enough for an adventure mode, throw in Nintendo themed locations, enemies and more bosses and i'll gladly take SSE part 2 right down to the pokemon style trophy collecting by lobbing the bases at weakened enemies. Cut down the length to prevent repetitive level design as well.

 

[qq more]

SSE was GARBAGE.

Melee's adventure mode was fantastic. A quick little fanservicy thing used to unlock characters and stuff. That's all Smash Bros single player should ever be.

You could tell they wasted way too much time making SSE. But, knowing Sakurai, Smash 4 will have SSE II. I mean, who would want to see classic Nintendo environments and stages in 1080p for the first time? Bah!

Melee's Adventure Mode sucked too. Half of it was barely adventure, in fact, half of them were glorified shitty event matches.

Disclaimer: I don't actually hate event matches.

 

[fisheyes]

Melee's Adventure Mode sucked too. Half of it was barely adventure, in fact, half of them were glorified shitty event matches.

Disclaimer: I don't actually hate event matches.

Melee's was mostly fine. The way they set up the Mario section - a Mario sidescroller with Mario enemies (and those quick Yoshi battles), then an 'event match' style set up fighting Mario characters on a Mario stage, is the best way for Adventure mode to go. See also, Zelda, Metroid, F-Zero, Ice Climbers. Stuff like DK's and Kirby's, where you just had two battles in a row, were useless though.

 

[Emitan]

The Great Maze was a horrible version of The Great Cave Offensive.

 

[Demon Lizardman]

The Great Maze was a horrible version of The Great Cave Offensive.

Never again Sakurai, never again.

 

[Boney]

Event Matches are the best single player smash related goodness though.

Had fun co-oping SSE on expert with my brother when I was still getting a hang of the game and getting to know the characters. The CG videos definately entretained me.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I liked Melee's adventure mode lots because a) bonuses and b) fan-service. Basically I'm a dirty whore who's easy to please

 

[J@hranimo]

The Subspace Emissary should've been a bit shorter and I would've been fine with it.

I actually liked Adventure Mode from Melee better than the SSE.

 

[IAmMonodi]

The Great Maze was a horrible version of The Great Cave Offensive.

Hahahh I missed that part. I noticed how all of SSE was a reskin of Kirby Super Star itself. Heck, even Ridley attacked like Dynablade does.

 

[Blizzard]

I liked SSE, or at least parts of it. I can't remember if I played through it with a second player however.

My absolute favorite part of it would be the Kirby angry eyebrows cutscene. Practically brought tears to my eyes. ;_;

 

[ThatObviousUser]

SSE is like the best CG video game movie ever made.

The actual game part was too monotonous and Kirby-light for me, personally.

 

[Black-Wind]

SSE can kiss my ass.

I was meh on it for the first half ... until they did that BS dark world maze thing.

That's when I knew it. I knew that I would NEVER play SSE again because of that cluster fuck of a time sinker.

 

[Gravijah]

sse was great but the great maze was pretty annoying. should have been a separate mode.

hopefully wii u/3ds have modes similar to the sse.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Reskin SSE with areas from Nintendo games peppered with various dream matchups (with regards to bosses...Rayquaza wtf? Give me Bowser vs K. Rool) and I'd be game.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Already said earlier but I agree with the people who think SSE has potential. Make the physics and the way you engage enemies in SSE identical to multiplayer so you don't suddenly have to readjust how you play the game, while getting rid of pits besides 'event' style matches so you don't wind up getting a game over because the same Monoeye Eyeball Fish thing lightly bounces you directly into one at the beginning of the level.

And chuck out all the generic locations and enemies with genuine Nintendo locales and drones as well as a smaller portion of 3rd party areas. Having a level where you have World 1-1 fused with Green Hill Zone for instance would be neat.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Feh, Single Player Modes..... After I completed everything and I never went back. 80% of times that I spend is on multiplayer matches.

I could see myself playing little more if they are going to use their nintendo worlds and third party worlds apart of stages instead of generic monsters and stage in SSE.

Also they better have epic story but I doubt it since they want to pull "friendship cheesy movie plot."

 

[Gravijah]

Also they better have epic story but I doubt it since they want to pull "friendship cheesy movie plot."

it was a buddy comedy man

 

[IntelliHeath]

it was a buddy comedy man

and they were considering one plot before they changed it. Something about Snake and Bus. I forget. (I found the quote.)

This adventure mode was the first time Nintendo's characters ever featured in such a CGI-heavy form of storytelling. (Oddly enough, the original story for Subspace had a more comedic tone – characters originally rode to the Smash Stadium in a bus!) The first trailer was unveiled during E3 2006. It revealed the official title, Final Smashes, and was the introduction of several new fighters, including Metal Gear's very own Solid Snake.

Iwata:
Wow, asking the person who crafted scenarios for Final Fantasy to write one for Smash Bros. is a pretty big deal.

Sakurai:
I know! (laughs) I didn’t ask him to write everything from scratch though. I explained the world of Smash Bros. and its characters and then asked for his help. The first storyline he came up with, however, wasn’t exactly what I was looking for.

Iwata:
It was different than what you had envisioned.

Sakurai:
Right. It wasn’t bad at all and had its own appeal, but it was a bit different than what I had envisioned it would be. It went something like this…"Some of the characters are on a bus on the way to the stadium. Samus is there. Donkey Kong is there and Snake is watching the bus from afar." It was like that. (laughs) I had envisioned a more serious tone for the story. Something with some misfortune like a single character escaping total annihilation of his squadron and then fighting back while rounding up his allies. Ultimately, we worked together and successfully organized our ideas into the storyline for The Subspace Emissary.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Iwata:
Wow, asking the person who crafted scenarios for Final Fantasy to write one for Smash Bros. is a pretty big deal.

Sakurai:
I know! (laughs) I didn’t ask him to write everything from scratch though. I explained the world of Smash Bros. and its characters and then asked for his help. The first storyline he came up with, however, wasn’t exactly what I was looking for.

Iwata:
It was different than what you had envisioned.

Sakurai:
Right. It wasn’t bad at all and had its own appeal, but it was a bit different than what I had envisioned it would be. It went something like this…"Some of the characters are on a bus on the way to the stadium. Samus is there. Donkey Kong is there and Snake is watching the bus from afar." It was like that. (laughs) I had envisioned a more serious tone for the story. Something with some misfortune like a single character escaping total annihilation of his squadron and then fighting back while rounding up his allies. Ultimately, we worked together and successfully organized our ideas into the storyline for The Subspace Emissary.

Don't have anybody remotely related to Final Fantasy beyond its composers have a part in Smash. PROBLEM SOLVED.

 

[PKrockin]

I really would have preferred something more comedic, where they take the characters and settings and just go nuts with them. At least it would have made an impression, unlike the awkward, forgettable, incomprehensible story we actually got.

Even when they announced some Final Fantasy dude was helping with the story and everyone started wetting their pants in anticipation, I was like "wut?" It didn't make sense. And it still doesn't.

SAKURAIIIIIII

 

[fisheyes]

Don't have anybody remotely related to Final Fantasy beyond its composers have a part in Smash. PROBLEM SOLVED.

Except, in a strange twist of fate, the Final Fantasy guy wanted it to be lighthearted and comedic, and it was the Nintendo guy that wanted ZOMG SERIOUS DRAMA. It would have much preferred the FF guy got his way.

 

[Freezie KO]

I hope Sakurai doesn't add some kind of multiplayer grinding thing that's related to unlockables like they did with Mario Kart.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

It sounded less comedic and more just random shit the guy quickly threw together when they asked him to write a plot. I mean admittedly a Nintendo crossover doesn't really scream serious but his first attempt just sounds lazy.

"So uh, they're on this bus. And erm, Donkey Kong's there... And uh, Samus, you own her right? And then they fight at the stadium. Snake is in some bushes outside and sneaks in... Can I go now?"

Not that the final SSE's plot was remotely good beyond a few fanservicy-moments like the recreation of DKC but now with Bowser stealing DK's bananas, Lucas and Ness briefly teaming up and the fleet of Nintendo-themed air ships against the giant black-hole generating cannon. Outside of those exceptions it's made all the more hard to relate to when nobody in the story speaks and hence you can't even really tell what's happening beyond the basic motivations of 'they gotta get/fight/rescue that guy!' I don't like it when crossovers start to get heavily convoluted like Kingdom Hearts, but at least you can tell they're making some attempt at recreating all these different pre-existing worlds while branching them together both physically and narratively.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I would've paid good money to see CG of Samus and Donkey Kong on a road trip.

 

[Boss Doggie]

We need more unique intros like in Smash 64 and Melee. Brawl was just a copy paste of almost all of the SSE CGI.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

We need more unique intros like in Smash 64 and Melee. Brawl was just a copy paste of almost all of the SSE CGI.

Agreed, I loved Melee's intro.

Brawl's just made me feel empty.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

The Subspace Emissary should've been a bit shorter and I would've been fine with it.

I actually liked Adventure Mode from Melee better than the SSE.

SSE could stand to be more fan-servicey like Adventure mode was. SSE focussed on having a fixed set of enemies while it would have been more fun to mix in a lot more classic enemy types from the game worlds. That was the one thing Adventure mode had over SSE.

 

[PokéKong]

I find the whole concept of visual story telling highly important in games and commend anyone who can tell a complex story with minimal or no words at all. I thought every silly little scene was charming on its own while also successfully conveying the overall story to the player. I also liked that they went through the trouble of making ROB cool and seem special, a character who wasn't even a character to begin with, literally just toy. It's miracle they managed to give nearly every character at least one cool memorable moment in the spotlight considering the sheer number of them.

I always found Melee's Adventure pretty strange. It feels highly disjointed and random while seemingly attempting to have some sort of logical flow in a handful of areas. They bothered to make little CG expositions from one part to the next, but other times just drop you instantly from one fight to another. It's like every couple stages were developed by different people with zero communication. Maybe they meant it to be the main single player mode, and then half way through development they decided to keep a "Classic" mode just in case some players miss the first game's style of single player, despite its arbitrary differences. They really should've just decided to keep one or the other, it never made much sense to have these moderately different modes, especially with All-Star too, it just made gathering all the trophies a total chore.

 

[MisterHero]

SSE's level design became a lot more clear to me after finishing Kid Icarus. It precedes Kirby though The Great Cave Offensive does play to a more complex version of that design as well.

The Great Maze even turned into a dungeon like in Kid Icarus

Non-ground Platforms in Brawl worked like in Kid Icarus as well. It's also telling that Pit is one of the first characters to be accessed.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Adventure Mode should be a mixture of Melee's take on it and little vignettes based on the actual games Smash grabs all its fanservice from. Make a couple new SMB levels, a Zelda dungeon, F-Zero races, etc etc and intermingle them with fights. The beginning of Melee's adventure mode is neat, but it doesn't actually feel like Mario, so just take the next logical step and start putting actual (new) levels in that could well be ripped directly from the original games.

 

[SuperAngelo64]

I'm really glad none of you have a hand in this game.